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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The government is after you is from the right side of the aisle. The cops are after you is from the left side of the aisle.That Americans see themselves as individual Rambos i.e. The Government is after them etc. Which isn't far from the truth if you think about it. | ||
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:22 GreenHorizons wrote: Also WTF I swear I'm hallucinating all this. -Donald Trump* forgot that part. Well I guess I gave him to much credit at first in that Alton wasn't a "motorist" but still it's not like the people he's appealing to with that will notice. All Trump needs is a functioning Pavlovian response system and obviously he'd eventually wise up to the fact that the electorate doesn't respond well to his usual antics when it comes to national tragedies. He's had multiple cracks at it already if he hadn't learned something from those you might as well have called the election today. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:29 Danglars wrote: The government is after you is from the right side of the aisle. The cops are after you is from the left side of the aisle. nah the left side is just "cops are prone to shooting unarmed black people and we need to reform them to not do that as much" thats not the kind of reasoning that leads people to shoot cops nearly as much as "the state's out of control" | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22677 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:29 GreenHorizons wrote: Ok I know I'm really tired now, but indulge my tin foil for a second then I'll leave you alone. Technically this was the first drone bombing of a US citizen on US soil. Theoretically couldn't this have been authorized by Obama as a matter of national security which could keep the real details secret indefinitely? I don't think this is what happened I'm just curious if it's possible in my delirium I highly doubt Obama was calling the shots here. It will most likely have simply been the Dallas PD. But yes, if you want you can see this as the first drone bombing of a US citizen on US soil. Whatever makes you happy. To me its just a terrorist getting killed. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:25 kapibara-san wrote: more like they were like "alright maybe people will shut up about it now" lets not pretend congresspeople ever felt compelled to comprehensively solve these kinds of problems... they were just responding to momentary political pressure like they always do (in addition to monetary political pressure heh) And the sanitizing of some of the civil rights leaders, like MLK. MLK was deeply angry about racism and his plan of peaceful protest was not just out of some moral conviction that violence was not the solution. That was part of it, but it was also the cynical understand that liberal white Americans would never push to end segregation until they were guilted into doing so. Most people don’t know that protesters for MLK trained to avoid responding to white racist trying to antagonize them. Even when beaten, attacked by dogs or blasted with fire hoses. And it was hard. All in an effort to guilt people into caring about segregation and civil rights. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24460 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:32 Gorsameth wrote: I highly doubt Obama was calling the shots here. It will most likely have simply been the Dallas PD. But yes, if you want you can see this as the first drone bombing of a US citizen on US soil. Whatever makes you happy. To me its just a terrorist getting killed. So you're saying there's a chance. Haha. I think it's really weird the police gave the race of a suspect (that they haven't said why they were detained) but not the suspect they blew up. | ||
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LennX
4572 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:00 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: yay finally some good economics news in a while | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:32 kapibara-san wrote: You couldn't have been more clear. The left thinks that COPS are prone to shooting unarmed black people. That's an amount of agreement I was not expecting. I wonder what kind of atmosphere you create when you only cite victims of police shootings as "unarmed black people?"nah the left side is just "cops are prone to shooting unarmed black people and we need to reform them to not do that as much" thats not the kind of reasoning that leads people to shoot cops nearly as much as "the state's out of control" When you connect cop-hate to a generic hate of government, you're letting your own partisan worldview be the primary constructor of your conclusions. It's as predictable as Obama pointing to the power of the weapons and gun control overtones in his first address following the attack. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On July 08 2016 21:53 farvacola wrote: The backtracking that's happening on my Facebook is unreal this morning. Many of the same people who posted memes that basically threatened armed uprising should the government pass gun control measures are now bending over backwards to assert that the killing of police was not what they had in mind. Fuckin idiots. I assume those people are "conservatives" aka Government stooges who bow at anything Pentagon or Police related. You should like pages that are actually true to principles like Cop Block, Skeptical Libertarian, etc. so you don't have to deal with hypocrits, but "true believers" ;p It's why I have more respect for the Bernie/Stein folks than the normal partisan crap. Talk to the people who are mad at the things happening to people like Oscar Grant, LaVoy Finicum, Kelly Thomas, Philando, Eric Garner, etc. Cops are totally out of control, but to those people you mention their God is Authority, and there is no larger authority in the US than the Pentagon and Police. They'd sell their family to them if it came to it. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The US government is investigating allegations that a hitlist of activists was circulated to special forces units of the Honduran military with instructions to eliminate the targets including Berta Cáceres, the celebrated environmental campaigner who was later gunned down in her home. US officials have been in contact with counterparts in the Honduran government, as well as individuals and groups that monitor human rights in the country, to look into the allegations of a hitlist that were first reported in the Guardian. The US ambassador to Honduras, James Nealon, told the Guardian that “we take allegations of human rights abuses with the utmost seriousness. We always take immediate action to ensure the security and safety of people where there is a credible threat”. The state department review of the Guardian allegations comes as a group of prominent Congress members renew their call for the Obama administration to suspend all US aid to Honduran police and military units. Writing in the Guardian, the representatives, led by Hank Johnson of Georgia and John Conyers of Michigan, argue that the human rights record of the Honduran government is so woeful that there should be no funding by any US agency. “As long as the US funds Honduran security forces without demanding justice for those threatened, tortured, and killed, we have blood on our hands. It’s time to suspend all police and military aid to Honduras,” they write. The authors are prominent sponsors of the Berta Cáceres Human Rights in Honduras Act that was introduced to the House of Representatives last month calling for the suspension of aid pending a full investigation into the campaigner’s death and other abuses. Source | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:02 Danglars wrote: You couldn't have been more clear. The left thinks that COPS are prone to shooting unarmed black people. That's an amount of agreement I was not expecting. I wonder what kind of atmosphere you create when you only cite victims of police shootings as "unarmed black people?" When you connect cop-hate to a generic hate of government, you're letting your own partisan worldview be the primary constructor of your conclusions. It's as predictable as Obama pointing to the power of the weapons and gun control overtones in his first address following the attack. I think that is a problem created by the lack of transparency in the use of force by police. When they shoot an unarmed white kid, that death gets lost in the shuffle and swept under the rug. But when an unarmed black kid or man gets shot, there is a community and culture around resisting the police abuse that rallies around victim. Sometimes, in rare cases, support is misplaced. So rather than try to blame the left for not sticking up for the unarmed white people killed by police, we should try to understand why that is. It is because the community around those victims cannot get the attention of the media or simply don’t know how to. Because I refuse to believe the support wouldn’t be there. It is just that people are not aware of the victims. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On July 08 2016 22:29 Danglars wrote: The government is after you is from the right side of the aisle. The cops are after you is from the left side of the aisle. Who do you think carries out the Government (ie. politicians) edicts? Cops are the arm of the Government, and the "right" is fucking stupid to hold those mercs up as some paragons of virtue. Another false dichotomy that plays people off each other. It's not going to be the FBI that will be confiscating your weapons, it'll be your local county/sheriffs doing this. Part of me just wants the day to come and watch how compliant the loudest will be. They'll always defer to Government authority, because that's where their principles lay. Of course, there are the true believers out there, but we're not considered right or left, but I fully expect those of us will be targeted most forcefully by the "right" because they can't handle any resistance to the "true" authority. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:02 Danglars wrote: You couldn't have been more clear. The left thinks that COPS are prone to shooting unarmed black people. That's an amount of agreement I was not expecting. I wonder what kind of atmosphere you create when you only cite victims of police shootings as "unarmed black people?" When you connect cop-hate to a generic hate of government, you're letting your own partisan worldview be the primary constructor of your conclusions. It's as predictable as Obama pointing to the power of the weapons and gun control overtones in his first address following the attack. im not part of the left... i'm just describing it... you're not wrong about issues with the narrative but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think i condone that narrative. "When you connect cop-hate to a generic hate of government" i actually don't get where i did that. and i think you should be more specific about what angle of the "connection" you're taking issue with. again, to clarify: i wasn't saying the only unarmed victims of cop shooting are black people, i'm saying the left is making a bigger deal of the black shootings in general because they're more emotionally unsavory (due to a history of unfair treatment of black people in general) and more often publicized nowadays. so yea apparently i could've been more clear... or maybe you could've extrapolated less based on your own prejudices. running list of people who read what they want to read and use that as a soapbox instead of reading actual words: wegandi danglars | ||
KwarK
United States44402 Posts
On July 08 2016 19:55 SoSexy wrote: Hope the people who spit on the police on a daily basis are happy now. This was bound to happen  Because the police didn't ever stop to wonder "why are so many people spitting on us?", have a period of self reflection and then go forwards acting differently. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:02 Danglars wrote: You couldn't have been more clear. The left thinks that COPS are prone to shooting unarmed black people. That's an amount of agreement I was not expecting. I wonder what kind of atmosphere you create when you only cite victims of police shootings as "unarmed black people?" When you connect cop-hate to a generic hate of government, you're letting your own partisan worldview be the primary constructor of your conclusions. It's as predictable as Obama pointing to the power of the weapons and gun control overtones in his first address following the attack. This is how you ensure minority votes if you are a liberal. By creating a hysteria in media and dividing people. | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:39 NukeD wrote: This is how you ensure minority votes if you are a liberal. By creating a hysteria in media and dividing people. pretty sure trump's been doing more of that and you've got the causation backwards, the minorities (which you're unfairly generalizing, it's literally just blacks in this case) start "causing hysteria" over their feeling of victimization (which doesn't seem entirely unjustified) and liberals seem to respond in a more supportive way than conservatives do. the people have always been divided. the liberals are not the ones doing the dividing. but why am i arguing the realities of american culture with a croatian | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:40 kapibara-san wrote: pretty sure trump's been doing more of that and you've got the causation backwards, the minorities (which you're unfairly generalizing, it's literally just blacks in this case) start "causing hysteria" over their feeling of victimization (which doesn't seem entirely unjustified) and liberals seem to respond in a more supportive way than conservatives do. the people have always been divided. the liberals are not the ones doing the dividing. but why am i arguing the realities of american culture with a croatian And the right has been uninterested in attracting minority voters since Nixon and the Southern Strategy and the War on Drugs(hippies and blacks). | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/pUF0w/d77499718d.png) http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/ but yea please tell me more about how its the liberals dividing people to take advantage politically | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22677 Posts
On July 08 2016 23:39 NukeD wrote: This is how you ensure minority votes if you are a liberal. By creating a hysteria in media and dividing people. The liberals are ensuring the minority vote by not ignoring their problems and by not campaigning on wanting to deport them all. If you call that dividing then sure, lets divide some more. | ||
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