EPTOn June 10 2016 03:57 amazingxkcd wrote:
i found this pretty funny
i found this pretty funny
the gifs in the responses are gold
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4008
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
the gifs in the responses are gold | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:37 amazingxkcd wrote: let's just postulate you're correct. By that very logic, all Germans are guilty of Holocast, including legal immigrants and got citizenship, all Balkens are guilty of Armenian suicide, All Christians are guilty for the multitude of crusades launched for greedy interests, etc. So what you guilty of? Viking rapes and pillaging in the late medieval ages? Everyone has shitty things that they've people have done to get to where they are in the present. The difference is that black people in america are in a position that is a direct cause of that and many people deny they had any hand in getting them there. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:25 Gorsameth wrote: You say that like it is an obvious thing. But it might not be an obvious thing.No, no one is guilty of the crimes of their predecessors. I am not responsible for the Dutch slave trade any more then a German is responsible for the holocaust. If nobody is guilty of the crimes of their predecessors, is nobody also also deserving of their inheritance? I ask because I do not know. stills, lets talk about collective guilt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warschauer_Kniefall | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45365 Posts
Greg Greene is a beast hahahaha | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:42 Surth wrote: You say that like it is an obvious thing. But it might not be an obvious thing. If nobody is guilty of the crimes of their predecessors, is nobody also also deserving of their inheritance? I ask because I do not know. stills, lets talk about collective guilt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warschauer_Kniefall Do pretty people deserve their amazing looks because their parents had such great genes and chose such nice mates? Redistribute the genes! Pretty people must mate with ugly people to ensure equality! Being pretty is oppressive to the ugly! | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:46 SK.Testie wrote: Do pretty people deserve their amazing looks because their parents had such great genes and chose such nice mates? Redistribute the genes! Pretty people must mate with ugly people to ensure equality! Being pretty is oppressive to the ugly! People arn't argueing for one shitty thing to make up for another shitty thing. They're just asking for people to agnoledge the shitty things done and make up for it. Black people didn't ask to be born black the same as ugly people were born ugly, we just deal with it. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22145 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:42 Surth wrote: You say that like it is an obvious thing. But it might not be an obvious thing. If nobody is guilty of the crimes of their predecessors, is nobody also also deserving of their inheritance? I ask because I do not know. stills, lets talk about collective guilt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warschauer_Kniefall 10.000 years ago one caveman bashed in the skull of another. Extrapolate forward and the entire world is guilty of murder. Do we imprison the entire world? The answer is obviously no. Do we all pay penance for this murder? Again, no we obviously don't. We don't imprison a son for the crimes of his father. So why should I be guilty of the crimes of my ancestors? Yes I benefit from from their slave trade but the entire world benefited from their linage not being ended by the sharp edge of a rock 10.000 years ago. Now I certainly understand that what happened was wrong and that the so called "Dutch golden age" is a black mark on our history but to consider any individual or collective guilty of crimes they had 0 influence on is imo preposterous. Yes the 'white man' was responsible for slavery and yes people still suffer from the lingering effects but the way to fight it is to try and make sure it never happens again and that they have the same rights and chances as anyone else. It is not to fight over guilt about something 200 years in the past. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45365 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22145 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: A really, really great endorsement by Obama for Hillary. I think he did a solid job of incorporating Bernie as well, giving us a taste of the "Yes, they were rivals, but in the bigger picture, they are allies". That's something that needs to be made extremely clear by Hillary, and I think the two best ways to do that is for her to continue moving more to the left on some issues and for her to select a running mate who is more non-establishment and comparable to Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. That would however require Bernie to actually bow out and not fight to the death. Sofar it looks like Bernie prefers to commit seppuku rather then send a strong message of unity from the left. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:46 SK.Testie wrote: Do pretty people deserve their amazing looks because their parents had such great genes and chose such nice mates? Redistribute the genes! Pretty people must mate with ugly people to ensure equality! Being pretty is oppressive to the ugly! I should note, I don't have a liberal axe to grind here. I just think there are some fascinating contradictions within the dominant discourse of our society, within which we are said to be entirely free, independent, sovereign etc., when we clearly are not. "Lichtenberg: "That a false hypothesis is sometimes preferable to an exact one is proven in the doctrine of human freedom. Man is, without a doubt, unfree. But it takes profound philosophical study for a man not to be led astray by such an insight. Barely one in a thousand has the necessary time and patience for such study, and of these hundreds, barely one has the necessary intelligence. This is why freedom is the most convenient conception and will, in the future, remain the most common, so much do appearances favour it." The exact hypothesis is that man is born unfree, that the world is born untrue, non-objective, non-rational. But this radical hypothesis is definitively beyond proof, unverifiable and, in a sense, unbearable. Hence the success of the opposite hypothesis, of the easiest hypothesis." | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:51 zlefin wrote: what actions to make up for it are you proposing sermo? Redo the homestead act for modern times. Have the government "buy" foreclosed houses in Detroit. And offer them to Poor families to move to these homes for free on conditions like you have to live there and improve the equity on the home by X and not do crimes. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
Bernie, of course, kind of sold that whole fact short when he tried to be all appeasing in the debates with Clinton, smugly saying that "anyone on this stage is 10 times better than what the republicans have to offer", but still. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 04:55 Gorsameth wrote: 10.000 years ago one caveman bashed in the skull of another. Extrapolate forward and the entire world is guilty of murder. Do we imprison the entire world? The answer is obviously no. Do we all pay penance for this murder? Again, no we obviously don't. We don't imprison a son for the crimes of his father. So why should I be guilty of the crimes of my ancestors? Yes I benefit from from their slave trade but the entire world benefited from their linage not being ended by the sharp edge of a rock 10.000 years ago. Now I certainly understand that what happened was wrong and that the so called "Dutch golden age" is a black mark on our history but to consider any individual or collective guilty of crimes they had 0 influence on is imo preposterous. Yes the 'white man' was responsible for slavery and yes people still suffer from the lingering effects but the way to fight it is to try and make sure it never happens again and that they have the same rights and chances as anyone else. It is not to fight over guilt about something 200 years in the past. The shitty socio-economic place that black people in the USA isn't 200 years the past. They barely had the right to vote 50 years ago. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22145 Posts
On June 10 2016 05:04 Sermokala wrote: Redo the homestead act for modern times. Have the government "buy" foreclosed houses in Detroit. And offer them to Poor families to move to these homes for free on conditions like you have to live there and improve the equity on the home by X and not do crimes. See, you should not be doing that because their black. You should be doing it to help the poor. But that would be called social housing and that's a communist idea from the darkest pits of hell so... Good luck with that in America. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 05:05 Surth wrote: Oh, and I don't think Bernie necessarily needs to get behind Clinton and the Dems. From the perspective of our (gloriously dysfunction, though in different ways) 5-6 party system here in Germany, it seems to me that the US have two parties which are both center-right. I don't think the "left" has any responsibility to help either of these parties. the Dems are to the left of the republicans mostly on issues like gay marriage etc. But for a committed leftist who, say, might have a problem problems that are much more fundamental, the Democrats are not at all the solution, they are the problem. Bernie, of course, kind of sold that whole fact short when he tried to be all appeasing in the debates with Clinton, smugly saying that "anyone on this stage is 10 times better than what the republicans have to offer", but still. You don't understand the two party system. The margins are so small (beacuse the parties need to shift rapidly to capture the middle 20% of the nation) that if Hillary only has 85% of the parties support shes already lost the general. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On June 10 2016 05:06 Gorsameth wrote: See, you should not be doing that because their black. You should be doing it to help the poor. But that would be called social housing and that's a communist idea from the darkest pits of hell so... Good luck with that in America. And I said that you should offer it to Poor families. Surprise black people are over-represented on this and would disproportionately help them. And it should be easy to reintroduce just attach a little Manifest destiny "old time" Americana and you'll have the middle america you need for it. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 05:07 Sermokala wrote: You don't understand the two party system. The margins are so small (beacuse the parties need to shift rapidly to capture the middle 20% of the nation) that if Hillary only has 85% of the parties support shes already lost the general. Its 40% now. Independents represent around 40% of the electorate. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22145 Posts
On June 10 2016 05:05 Sermokala wrote: The shitty socio-economic place that black people in the USA isn't 200 years the past. They barely had the right to vote 50 years ago. On June 10 2016 04:23 Sermokala wrote: Only a few people owned slaves but the economy was built on that slave labor. If you owned a cotton shirt or ate a product with suger in it or were involved in any way with some of those products you were involved in the slave trade and enjoyed their labor. That your ancestors didn't have the opportunity to literally own other people doesn't absolve you of the gilt. Slavery ended 200 years ago. Arguing about the 'white mans' current day guilt over slavery is what we were talking about. And again, I, you nor anyone else here, is responsible for blacks not having a vote 50 years ago. Now to be clear I am not saying racism is not a serious problem in the US to this day. It certainly is but I am not guilty of blacks not having a vote 20 years before I was born, some guys great grandfather from being a slave or my great grandfather being a slaver. Instead of pointing blame at those who are blameless, how about you try to fix the problems instead. | ||
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