EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3223
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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oBlade
United States6638 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:05 oBlade wrote: So it's basically because he's a businessman and popular? Being widely known and being popular are not the same things. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:08 Plansix wrote: Yes, he has spent decades building up his brand and is cashing it in. He is mildly successful business man that managed not to lose all his families money. And now is running the "I will say anything you want to get elected" platform a defunked and fragmented party. Wait, are you still perpetuating the "If he had put his money in S&P 500 index" meme? On March 08 2016 14:09 Slaughter wrote: Being widely known and being popular are not the same things. Have you seen the poll numbers? At worst he's the 3rd most popular overall candidate in America... | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
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oBlade
United States6638 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:08 Plansix wrote: Yes, he has spent decades building up his brand and is cashing it in. He is mildly successful business man that managed not to lose all his families money. And now is running the "I will say anything you want to get elected" platform a defunked and fragmented party. What you're doing is poisoning the well. For instance, I've heard him talk about reducing waste in the military industrial complex (in different words), which is both a realistic stance and an unusual subject for any Republican to talk about. (It would probably be exciting for people to let go of the narrative for a second and listened to the candidates.) And you're telling me that doesn't matter at all. Your entire dismissal of his candidacy is that you've been convinced by armchair psychology that he's 100% ego so nobody can believe anything he says, but as his poll numbers grow and he gets more delegates, the side and the people making that argument are apparently failing to persuade others - because their only evidence is "duh." | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Here's a really good read for the financially inept who keep saying "Donald trump under performed compared to stock market" meme. With zero account of Brand value, along with zero context of investment environment at the time he received his money. (good choices does not always mean good outcome, and bad choices doesn't always mean bad outcomes). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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oBlade
United States6638 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:09 Slaughter wrote: Being widely known and being popular are not the same things. So if you had a time machine, you'd probably be against Reagan and Schwarzenegger for similar reasons, before even getting to policy? Were there any examples of Trumps in recent memory that royally fucked something up at a high level? | ||
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ErectedZenith
325 Posts
Holy shit I mean the Republicans have some crazy candidates in there and now Democrats are in the process of out-crazy the Republicans with a candidate like that. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:09 wei2coolman wrote: Wait, are you still perpetuating the "If he had put his money in S&P 500 index" meme? Have you seen the poll numbers? At worst he's the 3rd most popular overall candidate in America... I might be mistaken, but he loses to literally everyone head-to-head, no? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:38 oBlade wrote: Do you think healthcare reform, tax reform, immigration reform, and defense spending are serious issues that the Republican party should focus on and feature in their discourse? I remember a couple years ago, the left complained that the Republican party had no plans for any of those, and would bitch about the right not talking about these issues. Rightfully so. When Trump outlines his plans, it's because it's to be a vote grabber. On March 08 2016 14:47 ErectedZenith wrote: Okay so after Bernie Sanders said here: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6IlGoeDIUQ Holy shit I mean the Republicans have some crazy candidates in there and now Democrats are in the process of out-crazy the Republicans with a candidate like that. I'm a Sander voter, but this is super fucking cringe worthy. | ||
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ErectedZenith
325 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:48 The_Templar wrote: I might be mistaken, but he loses to literally everyone head-to-head, no? By polls? I don't think polls actually matters, we've seen some interesting changes. | ||
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G5
United States2922 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:50 ErectedZenith wrote: By polls? I don't think polls actually matters, we've seen some interesting changes. They've been relatively accurate this year and yes, Trump loses to everyone except Republicans lol | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:56 G5 wrote: They've been relatively accurate this year and yes, Trump loses to everyone except Republicans lol IIRC he actually loses to each individual republican head-to-head too but since there are 4 people in the race he is way ahead. | ||
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oBlade
United States6638 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:56 G5 wrote: They've been relatively accurate this year and yes, Trump loses to everyone except Republicans lol I believe what he means is that polls are not predictive except in the short term. For example, there was a time Carson was leading the GOP field. If you take a poll the day before a primary, you can be pretty confident about how people end up voting. Hillary usually leads Trump around, say, 5 points in polls (with lots of people not committing to either). But once we get into the general election, there will be that whole campaign to deal with. National TV ads, presidential debates. This is a bit of a rhetorical trick, but the way I see it, Trump will have an uphill battle, and Clinton will have nowhere to go but downhill. There are other metrics, like Obama's approval rating is 50% or less, and up to 2/3 of people say the USA is going in the wrong direction. I'm not saying one person or the other will definitely win, but I think it will be a very exciting election, even if it we're tired by the end of it. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 08 2016 14:38 oBlade wrote: Do you think healthcare reform, tax reform, immigration reform, and defense spending are serious issues that the Republican party should focus on and feature in their discourse? So if you had a time machine, you'd probably be against Reagan and Schwarzenegger for similar reasons, before even getting to policy? Were there any examples of Trumps in recent memory that royally fucked something up at a high level? Trump doesn't focus on those things. He rambles on nonsensically while saying those phrases. He doesn't have any plans that are even remotely serious in attempting to address these issues. "Building a wall and having Mexico pay for it" isn't a serious immigration reform platform. His tax plan is complete bogus and benefits the rich disproportionately while exploding the deficit to unrecognizable numbers. His healthcare plan doesn't have any specifics at all, let alone specifics that make any sense. The man just says vague pandering crap that gets people riled up and cashes in off of that. He doesn't offer anything substantive. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 08 2016 15:26 Stratos_speAr wrote: Trump doesn't focus on those things. He rambles on nonsensically while saying those phrases. He doesn't have any plans that are even remotely serious in attempting to address these issues. "Building a wall and having Mexico pay for it" isn't a serious immigration reform platform. His tax plan is complete bogus and benefits the rich disproportionately while exploding the deficit to unrecognizable numbers. His healthcare plan doesn't have any specifics at all, let alone specifics that make any sense. The man just says vague pandering crap that gets people riled up and cashes in off of that. He doesn't offer anything substantive. Pretty sure removing state lines for insurance companies, and allowing buying of medication from outside the US, is pretty specific. | ||
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oBlade
United States6638 Posts
On March 08 2016 15:26 Stratos_speAr wrote: Trump doesn't focus on those things. He rambles on nonsensically while saying those phrases. He doesn't have any plans that are even remotely serious in attempting to address these issues. "Building a wall and having Mexico pay for it" isn't a serious immigration reform platform. His tax plan is complete bogus and benefits the rich disproportionately while exploding the deficit to unrecognizable numbers. His healthcare plan doesn't have any specifics at all, let alone specifics that make any sense. The man just says vague pandering crap that gets people riled up and cashes in off of that. He doesn't offer anything substantive. The Republican establishment are main the ones with empty rhetoric. This is Rubio's stance on healthcare (marcorubio.com: Repeal and Replace ObamaCare -Expand access to affordable, quality health coverage by providing every American with an advanceable, refundable tax credit that can be used to purchase insurance. -Reduce health care costs, promote innovation, and ensure access for the most vulnerable by expanding access to consumer-centered health plans, reforming insurance regulations, and putting protections in place to ensure those with pre-existing health conditions can get access to affordable coverage. -Promote innovation in the Medicaid program by giving states a per-capita block grant, which preserves funding for Medicaid’s unique populations while freeing states from Washington mandates. In other words, repeal Obamacare and make it cheaper. Here's Trump's plan. And what's wrong with his tax plan? He's a Republican who wants people paying more taxes on carried interest. Why can't people breathe in this fresh air? What do you think his real plan or goal is? He's a 70 year old man, not unlike Bernie, with all the stress of running a presidential campaign for over a year so he can win and do what exactly? Roll around naked in the Oval Office just for fun? (Even if you believe that, the last president to do so was so beloved that he was elected to 2 terms and his wife, rather than leave him, is now also running for the same job.) It is very important for the Republican party to focus towards these (and other) real issues, which is what Trump's presence helps. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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