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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
February 13 2016 02:39 GMT
#58221
I'm so confused right now.

Using my friend Google I found out that a push poll uses loaded questions, so it makes sense to my why they might be an accurate representation. But the links posted here made it seem like there were some legitimate polls in which Sanders tied with Clinton? But maybe they're push polls? I looked at them and I wasn't too convinced (1200 people is a pretty small sample size in my opinion).

I have no idea what's going to happen this presidential campaign. I could easily see it going both ways. Or rather at this point, I don't know if I'd be surprised with any outcome because I'm so lost! The problem with reading this forum is that there are supporters from both camps and they both raise good points hahaha.
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 13 2016 02:51 GMT
#58222
On February 13 2016 11:39 Frudgey wrote:
I'm so confused right now.

Using my friend Google I found out that a push poll uses loaded questions, so it makes sense to my why they might be an accurate representation. But the links posted here made it seem like there were some legitimate polls in which Sanders tied with Clinton? But maybe they're push polls? I looked at them and I wasn't too convinced (1200 people is a pretty small sample size in my opinion).

I have no idea what's going to happen this presidential campaign. I could easily see it going both ways. Or rather at this point, I don't know if I'd be surprised with any outcome because I'm so lost! The problem with reading this forum is that there are supporters from both camps and they both raise good points hahaha.

A push poll is like the one that got Republicans to say they were in favor of bombing agrabah. They asked like 5 legit middle East and ISIS questions before and 5 more after, then drop in the "ha-ha so stupid" question in the middle. So what they do is prime you to get the answer they want. So they call a Dem, say Bernie favors a bunch of policies and say "do you agree" then they ask some Hillary things, slightly less favorable to the average Dem and say " do you agree " then they ask who you are likely to vote for.

I just got one for state Senate.
Freeeeeeedom
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 13 2016 03:04 GMT
#58223
by the by a large part of labor cost in u.s. is the healthcare benefits and such. a single payer or something more efficient is just important in terms of economic competitiveness
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-13 03:10:06
February 13 2016 03:07 GMT
#58224
This is the pulled Ted Cruz ad (pulled because the blond is a former pornstar). Eh the ad is whatever. But SC is heating up wrt ads

rip passion
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
February 13 2016 03:15 GMT
#58225
On February 13 2016 12:07 Deathstar wrote:
This is the pulled Ted Cruz ad (pulled because the blond is a former pornstar). Eh the ad is whatever. But SC is heating up wrt ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlzFfzv1rc


Circular firing squad. Each so desperate for power, they can't see it's slipping from all of their grasps.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
February 13 2016 03:59 GMT
#58226
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-13 04:04:13
February 13 2016 04:02 GMT
#58227
Trump doing well more so has to do with the internal divisions and fragmentation within the right more than anything the left has done.

Besides, Clinton has gotten plenty of criticism from the left for that kind of stuff.
Never Knows Best.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 13 2016 04:06 GMT
#58228
On February 13 2016 12:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
Identity politics works (to its potential) when it's sprinkled to a cake of truths, half truths, and baseless assertions that sound good. Clinton has simply become too overt and thus the loser in playing the game.

Trump has benefitted from conventional stereotypes on how immigration discussions are "supposed to go." Everybody know illegal immigration is a net benefit, anti illegal immigration types are racists and white men, etc. He might be the king of anti-establishment/status quo. I don't think the connection on his popularity will be made by society's racebaiters or sexists.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-13 04:24:23
February 13 2016 04:17 GMT
#58229
On February 13 2016 13:06 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2016 12:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
Identity politics works (to its potential) when it's sprinkled to a cake of truths, half truths, and baseless assertions that sound good. Clinton has simply become too overt and thus the loser in playing the game.

Trump has benefitted from conventional stereotypes on how immigration discussions are "supposed to go." Everybody know illegal immigration is a net benefit, anti illegal immigration types are racists and white men, etc. He might be the king of anti-establishment/status quo. I don't think the connection on his popularity will be made by society's racebaiters or sexists.


The connection has already been made by those paying attention. The problem with your analysis is that those folks supporting Trump are yet to realize the role the "It's just a yellow star" or rather "it's just a registry" plays in how this all plays out.

Question for Hillary supporters, can Hillary win if she loses both NV and SC or is that essentially the end of her campaign?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8505 Posts
February 13 2016 04:47 GMT
#58230
On February 13 2016 13:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2016 13:06 Danglars wrote:
On February 13 2016 12:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
Identity politics works (to its potential) when it's sprinkled to a cake of truths, half truths, and baseless assertions that sound good. Clinton has simply become too overt and thus the loser in playing the game.

Trump has benefitted from conventional stereotypes on how immigration discussions are "supposed to go." Everybody know illegal immigration is a net benefit, anti illegal immigration types are racists and white men, etc. He might be the king of anti-establishment/status quo. I don't think the connection on his popularity will be made by society's racebaiters or sexists.


The connection has already been made by those paying attention. The problem with your analysis is that those folks supporting Trump are yet to realize the role the "It's just a yellow star" or rather "it's just a registry" plays in how this all plays out.

Question for Hillary supporters, can Hillary win if she loses both NV and SC or is that essentially the end of her campaign?


not a hillary supporter per se - but I think if jeb! can drag it out for an unreasonable amount time, then clinton should be totally fine at this point with just about any outcome where she does not get numbers like in NH. and if I look at the delegates gained there - it was 14 - 9 for bernie.

that's a victory sure. though will it matter in the end?

winning a battle is one thing, winning the god damn war another thing entirely.


Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 13 2016 05:22 GMT
#58231
On February 13 2016 13:47 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2016 13:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 13 2016 13:06 Danglars wrote:
On February 13 2016 12:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
Identity politics works (to its potential) when it's sprinkled to a cake of truths, half truths, and baseless assertions that sound good. Clinton has simply become too overt and thus the loser in playing the game.

Trump has benefitted from conventional stereotypes on how immigration discussions are "supposed to go." Everybody know illegal immigration is a net benefit, anti illegal immigration types are racists and white men, etc. He might be the king of anti-establishment/status quo. I don't think the connection on his popularity will be made by society's racebaiters or sexists.


The connection has already been made by those paying attention. The problem with your analysis is that those folks supporting Trump are yet to realize the role the "It's just a yellow star" or rather "it's just a registry" plays in how this all plays out.

Question for Hillary supporters, can Hillary win if she loses both NV and SC or is that essentially the end of her campaign?


not a hillary supporter per se - but I think if jeb! can drag it out for an unreasonable amount time, then clinton should be totally fine at this point with just about any outcome where she does not get numbers like in NH. and if I look at the delegates gained there - it was 14 - 9 for bernie.

that's a victory sure. though will it matter in the end?

winning a battle is one thing, winning the god damn war another thing entirely.




Well the point was, what happens if Sanders wins the next two battles?

My take is that if Sanders can make those races close, let alone win them, then Hillary is in serious trouble.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
February 13 2016 06:36 GMT
#58232
South Carolina is the more important state for Sanders I think. If he can close the gap there he will have by necessity closed the gap amongst a lot of key demographics. Nevada is quite a bit less important, especially since he probably has a natural bump in caucus states.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
February 13 2016 06:51 GMT
#58233
http://usuncut.com/news/time-magazine-lying-bernie-photos-from-civil-rights-era-are-real/

Lol pretty dirty trying to rewrite history.
Never Knows Best.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-13 07:16:11
February 13 2016 07:14 GMT
#58234
I don't even understand that line of attack. Clinton and/or her advisors are incredibly inept with how they have conducted this and to be honest the 2008 campaign.

Her best surrogates are members of the media that were never affiliated with her but just happen to be Establishment Democrats.
Freeeeeeedom
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-13 07:34:02
February 13 2016 07:33 GMT
#58235
Very interesting article from msnbc today. If I were in the Clinton camp, I would be starting to get uncomfortable with the narratives going into NV/SC. Basically if Bernie is -10 or closer in either, it will look very poor. Articles like this don't exactly help her case that she's learned from her (many) mistakes in 2007.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/warning-signs-hillary-clinton-south-carolina

As of last week, the Clinton campaign had only two campaign offices in South Carolina: one in Charleston and another in the capital, Columbia, with just 14 full-time staffers including state director Clay Middleton. The campaign also has nine “get out the vote” sites – smaller-scale sites devoted to turnout – across the state.

The Sanders campaign, meanwhile, had 240 staffers on the ground as of last week – 80 percent of them African-American – spread across 10 offices statewide.


I can't believe how inept her campaign has been. 2 offices in SC just goes to show how lazy her campaign has been; she thought she didn't even have to campaign for black votes. Really worrisome for general election prospects if she gets past Sanders.

Fool me once, shame on... shame on, you? Fool me you can't get fooled again!
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 13 2016 07:39 GMT
#58236
It's probably not Clinton behind it so much as lazy media.

The number one thing the media loves to do to "authentic" candidates is find any discrepancy or possible hypocrisy and make a story out of it. Combined with ever decreasing attention paid to accuracy in reporting, and this sort of thing isn't all that surprising.

I've seen some less generous interpretations that suggest that some in the media who are used to thinking of themselves as "the left" feel challenged by Sanders, and are trying to tear him down. That's possible, but in general I think stupidity is a better explanation than malice.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5582 Posts
February 13 2016 07:42 GMT
#58237
On February 13 2016 16:33 darthfoley wrote:
Very interesting article from msnbc today. If I were in the Clinton camp, I would be starting to get uncomfortable with the narratives going into NV/SC. Basically if Bernie is -10 or closer in either, it will look very poor. Articles like this don't exactly help her case that she's learned from her (many) mistakes in 2007.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/warning-signs-hillary-clinton-south-carolina

Show nested quote +
As of last week, the Clinton campaign had only two campaign offices in South Carolina: one in Charleston and another in the capital, Columbia, with just 14 full-time staffers including state director Clay Middleton. The campaign also has nine “get out the vote” sites – smaller-scale sites devoted to turnout – across the state.

The Sanders campaign, meanwhile, had 240 staffers on the ground as of last week – 80 percent of them African-American – spread across 10 offices statewide.


I can't believe how inept her campaign has been. 2 offices in SC just goes to show how lazy her campaign has been; she thought she didn't even have to campaign for black votes. Really worrisome for general election prospects if she gets past Sanders.

Fool me once, shame on... shame on, you? Fool me you can't get fooled again!

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
February 13 2016 07:54 GMT
#58238
On February 13 2016 16:39 Seuss wrote:
It's probably not Clinton behind it so much as lazy media.

The number one thing the media loves to do to "authentic" candidates is find any discrepancy or possible hypocrisy and make a story out of it. Combined with ever decreasing attention paid to accuracy in reporting, and this sort of thing isn't all that surprising.

I've seen some less generous interpretations that suggest that some in the media who are used to thinking of themselves as "the left" feel challenged by Sanders, and are trying to tear him down. That's possible, but in general I think stupidity is a better explanation than malice.


There's no doubt this came out of the Clinton Camp, these interviews and changing the caption didn't "just happen", and they didn't gleefully spread it because they wanted it to just coincidentally line up with the recent "I didn't see him, but I met the Clintons" nonsense.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
February 13 2016 09:09 GMT
#58239
On February 13 2016 12:07 Deathstar wrote:
This is the pulled Ted Cruz ad (pulled because the blond is a former pornstar). Eh the ad is whatever. But SC is heating up wrt ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlzFfzv1rc


In stark contrast Bernie's most recent ad.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8505 Posts
February 13 2016 09:42 GMT
#58240
On February 13 2016 14:22 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2016 13:47 Doublemint wrote:
On February 13 2016 13:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 13 2016 13:06 Danglars wrote:
On February 13 2016 12:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/osborne-crowley-why-aren't-young-women-convinced-of-clinton/7155362

Yet another ridiculous article from the left wing press asking why women aren't voting for Clinton.Why does the left always bring EVERYTHING back to gender and race now? And people are surprised Trump is doing so well? This is "blowback".
Identity politics works (to its potential) when it's sprinkled to a cake of truths, half truths, and baseless assertions that sound good. Clinton has simply become too overt and thus the loser in playing the game.

Trump has benefitted from conventional stereotypes on how immigration discussions are "supposed to go." Everybody know illegal immigration is a net benefit, anti illegal immigration types are racists and white men, etc. He might be the king of anti-establishment/status quo. I don't think the connection on his popularity will be made by society's racebaiters or sexists.


The connection has already been made by those paying attention. The problem with your analysis is that those folks supporting Trump are yet to realize the role the "It's just a yellow star" or rather "it's just a registry" plays in how this all plays out.

Question for Hillary supporters, can Hillary win if she loses both NV and SC or is that essentially the end of her campaign?


not a hillary supporter per se - but I think if jeb! can drag it out for an unreasonable amount time, then clinton should be totally fine at this point with just about any outcome where she does not get numbers like in NH. and if I look at the delegates gained there - it was 14 - 9 for bernie.

that's a victory sure. though will it matter in the end?

winning a battle is one thing, winning the god damn war another thing entirely.




Well the point was, what happens if Sanders wins the next two battles?

My take is that if Sanders can make those races close, let alone win them, then Hillary is in serious trouble.


well fair enough then. I think if he makes an actual competition of the upcoming mentioned primaries, she will go from feeling the bern to it's getting hot in here/the roof is on fire :p
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