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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2901

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 05:12:53
February 12 2016 05:09 GMT
#58001
On February 12 2016 13:54 xDaunt wrote:
I disagree with Bernie on damned near everything, but I genuinely respect the man for being so damned honest about his positions and beliefs. It's incredibly refreshing, and it stands in stark contrast to Hillary, who is the embodiment of political duplicity. Frankly, I suspect that she would be better served standing her ground on her more moderate platform instead of faux-chasing Bernie down the far left rabbit hole. It's not like she's going to be fooling any Bernie supporters into thinking that she's like him. People know what the score is.


Maybe, maybe not.

Part of the problem is that support isn't really binary, there are degrees to it. While there are certainly die hard Bernie supporters, there are plenty of people who stand on a spectrum between him and hypothetical-moderate-Clinton. So if Clinton stays moderate then she cedes a lot of less moderate voters without a fight.

It's basically the same thing that drives moderate Republican candidates right. Moderate voters will typically still vote for you so long as you're still noticeably more moderate than your opponents, so strategically it's better to shift toward the extreme during primaries and try to shift back during the general election.

If Clinton had stuck to her moderate positions she'd be more authentic, but authenticity isn't going to sell moderate positions to leftists with an authentic leftist to vote for.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 12 2016 05:50 GMT
#58002
I'm so glad there's excitement on both sides of the aisle. It wouldn't be the same if Clinton ran away with it and all we had was the GOP candidates duking it out.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Hexe
Profile Joined August 2014
United States332 Posts
February 12 2016 05:54 GMT
#58003
theres not much bernie can do vs superdelegates. even if he wins the popular vote with 55% or something she will probably get 65%> supers
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
February 12 2016 06:12 GMT
#58004
Obama had the same issue iirc until he started just winning and the DNC couldn't do much about it
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
February 12 2016 06:16 GMT
#58005
On February 12 2016 12:47 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2016 12:45 darthfoley wrote:
Guess what? HRC agrees with Bernie on FDR lol...

Hero of the Democratic party. No one really has much bad to say about him from this party.

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2016 12:45 Introvert wrote:
Am I being too cynical in thinking Bernie didn't have an answer for the foreign leader portion? He just picked someone everyone likes.

Almost certainly he didn't have an answer.

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2016 12:46 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2016 12:44 LegalLord wrote:
Churchill and FDR. Easiest two to predict because they're basically the obvious non-controversial Dem choices.

If you like Churchill you probably aren't voting D.

I mean, it's pretty hard to pick a good foreign leader who is not an enemy of the US who you could talk about, especially when you're put on the spot. He's the least controversial choice since he's a war hero and US ally.


Adenauer was way better than Churchill for that time period....Of course though his classical liberalism and anti-communism is anathema to Sanders :p If Sanders was honest he'd mention Mao or someone like him.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44450 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 06:18:55
February 12 2016 06:17 GMT
#58006
Why not Clement Attlee? You don't have to go full Mao. Attlee took a country that was still fighting WWII and built a modern socialist system within a free market economy.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24512 Posts
February 12 2016 06:18 GMT
#58007
On February 12 2016 14:50 Danglars wrote:
I'm so glad there's excitement on both sides of the aisle. It wouldn't be the same if Clinton ran away with it and all we had was the GOP candidates duking it out.



Glad you don't think Sanders is a Ron Paul anymore, gotta take the progress where you get it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
February 12 2016 06:19 GMT
#58008
If you think Sanders is Mao Adenauer's social policies would drive you up a tree
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
February 12 2016 06:21 GMT
#58009
Americans have never heard of either of those people.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 12 2016 06:25 GMT
#58010
On February 12 2016 14:54 Hexe wrote:
theres not much bernie can do vs superdelegates. even if he wins the popular vote with 55% or something she will probably get 65%> supers


It seems unlikely that the DNC will allow superdelegates to change the outcome. It's not impossible since Sanders, unlike Obama, is an outsider, but I'm pretty sure they recognize that overturning the outcome via superdelegates will alienate Sanders' base and likely cost them the election with significant effects downstream.

Democractic leadership is frequently incompetent but they're not that incompetent.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
February 12 2016 06:33 GMT
#58011
Exactly ^ if Bernie gets to that point, the democratic party as we know it would cease to exist if super delegates turned it into a Clinton nomination
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
February 12 2016 06:58 GMT
#58012
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/politics/who-won-the-debate.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

This is the first debate review that I've read this election, and it's depressing to say the least.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5093 Posts
February 12 2016 09:06 GMT
#58013
IDK people are talking up Bernie's performance but unless he was pointing out Hillary's hilariousness with the banks, he didn't sound so great. At least to me. Maybe that's because I got tired of "millionaires and billionaires" really fast.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24512 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 11:03:20
February 12 2016 09:18 GMT
#58014
+ Show Spoiler +





A lot of people were watching for the first time, especially Bernie. Bernie has always beaten her everywhere else, pulling FP to anywhere near a draw is a huge win and I suspect the polls and votes will continue to reflect such.

Also random factoid from NH; Bernie beat Jim Gilmore and Rick Santorum on the Republican side (from write-ins), just a little shy of Huckabee and earning a delegate. He might have beat Paul and Fiorina if he was actually on the ballot.

Trump actually signed a baby. No shit, he autographed a baby. Trump/Ricky Bobby 2016!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 12:46:37
February 12 2016 12:46 GMT
#58015
Not sold on the free college idea.Govt subsidies may be useful for STEM courses, such studies do benefit society, but what about courses like Philosophy, Gender studies, Photography, Art history etc?

These courses already have almost no jobs at the end of them so what exactly is the benefit to taxpayers paying for these folks to study them?

BTW between Sanders and Clinton i vastly prefer Sanders.Cannot stand Clinton.Just some of Sanders policies i cannot understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 12:55:05
February 12 2016 12:49 GMT
#58016
Was good to see Sanders call out Kissinger on TV.Kissy is one of the most evil men on this earth, why can't him, D Rockefeller, Soros and Brezinski just freaking die already?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4463 Posts
February 12 2016 12:54 GMT
#58017
On February 12 2016 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2016 12:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hillary did pretty good IMO, she's figuring out angles that work.

The "ran against him line" was dumb. Come on, she ran against him for president when he was a senator, not when he was an incumbent.

Sanders has improved somewhat on foreign policy which is good. Apart from that, I remain unimpressed with his platform.


You notice the Hillary camp is already trying to downplay Nevada, claiming it's 80% white (it's not)?

Good reason they haven't polled there either. Basically, Hillary's claims in Nevada was mostly bluster. It's generational like the rest of her support.

It's going to be close which is not what Hillary needs.

Without polls we don't know but in NH Clinton and Sanders were tied 49-49 among registered dems.Sanders cleaned up with indys but NV primary is registered dems only, no indys.

I'd be interested to see some recent polls but it favours Hillary by far from what we know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 12 2016 12:56 GMT
#58018
a lot of people dont appreciate how deep the global economy goes now. with bernie's populism on that front i see a really grave downside of not only unraveling of free trade but also our current international alliance particularly germany, without. which europe is all but lost to further division.

and no it will not lead to more american jobs.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24512 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 13:04:18
February 12 2016 13:03 GMT
#58019
Nevada allows indys to change affiliation at the caucus but it also starts at 11 AM so it's going to be people who have been paying attention, big supporters, and old people. What the Culinary union does could dramatically change the outcome.

Are people seeing the ads in SC? They are amazing.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
February 12 2016 13:28 GMT
#58020
On February 12 2016 21:56 oneofthem wrote:
a lot of people dont appreciate how deep the global economy goes now. with bernie's populism on that front i see a really grave downside of not only unraveling of free trade but also our current international alliance particularly germany, without. which europe is all but lost to further division.

and no it will not lead to more american jobs.

How is that supposed to work? Can you clarify in any way? What you said makes no sense at all from a german perspective.
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