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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2423

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
October 20 2015 03:22 GMT
#48441
I have been thinking about taxes for a bit and I was wondering for those of you here who are more knowledgeable in social/political/economic theory. Has anyone tried or proposed funding of specific things through voluntary tax options? Take something as currently contentious as planned parenthood. Instead of all this pretty useless arguing about its funding, why not have a section on tax forms that ask if you would want to willingly give extra money towards w/e program (in this example planned parent hood). These programs or w/e it is could make presentations of their benefits and make their cases. So like little ways for people to directly put their tax dollars where they want them to go. Obviously not on a huge scale.

This idea kind of struck me due to stores who sometimes ask "do you want to add $1 to your order for such and such charity?"

Just curious.
Never Knows Best.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 03:38:07
October 20 2015 03:35 GMT
#48442
That does sound more like charity than taxation though. I also don't think fundamental public tasks, in the case of planned parenthood healthcare for women is something that should fall under that category. I think on the contrary way too many jobs that should be covered by strong institutions have been handed over to charity or dubious semi-private schemes in almost all Western countries over the last two or three decades.

Just look at how many volunteers it takes in Germany to take care of the refugee situation. Without the goodwill of the population we'd be in deep shit. Under normal circumstances politics should take care of such things, that's what politicians are payed for. Delegating fundamental stuff to volunteers to save some bucks or to appease parties sounds troublesome.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4932 Posts
October 20 2015 03:36 GMT
#48443
Why not just give the extra dollar directly to PP? And you can pay more in taxes if you wish, no one is stopping you.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1086 Posts
October 20 2015 04:11 GMT
#48444
On October 20 2015 12:22 Slaughter wrote:
I have been thinking about taxes for a bit and I was wondering for those of you here who are more knowledgeable in social/political/economic theory. Has anyone tried or proposed funding of specific things through voluntary tax options? Take something as currently contentious as planned parenthood. Instead of all this pretty useless arguing about its funding, why not have a section on tax forms that ask if you would want to willingly give extra money towards w/e program (in this example planned parent hood). These programs or w/e it is could make presentations of their benefits and make their cases. So like little ways for people to directly put their tax dollars where they want them to go. Obviously not on a huge scale.

This idea kind of struck me due to stores who sometimes ask "do you want to add $1 to your order for such and such charity?"

Just curious.

Cool idea. I don't like anything the government does, I will thus pay $0 in taxes.

The idea falls apart very fast under scrutiny. The reason why we have taxes and not donations in the first place is that we feel that certain things must be funded even if people don't want to fund them sufficiently. So the government takes from everyone to make sure that those essentials get paid for.

Currently, our government sees the services that PP provides as important enough to our society to use tax dollars on it. You may not like it, but if you look through the budget, I'd bet there are a whole lot of things you'd dislike. PP is just one of many and at least in its case, it is very likely driving down government costs in other areas due to the work they do.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23885 Posts
October 20 2015 04:14 GMT
#48445
It began as whispers in hushed corners: Could it ever happen? And now, just three months from the Iowa caucuses, members of the Republican establishment are starting to give voice to an increasingly common belief that Donald Trump, once dismissed as joke, a carnival barker, and a circus freak, might very well win the nomination.

“Trump is a serious player for the nomination at this time,” says Ed Rollins, who served as the national campaign director for Reagan’s 1984 reelection and as campaign chairman for Mike Huckabee in 2008.

Rollins is not alone in his views. “Trump has sustained a lead for longer than there are days left” before voting begins in Iowa, says Steve Schmidt, who managed John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. “For a long time,” Schmidt says, “you were talking to people in Washington, and there was a belief that there was an expiration date to this, as if there’s some secret group of people who have the ability to control the process.”

But for Trump, a dip in the polls after the second debate that many predicted was the beginning of the end has arrested; and for nearly four months, he has remained at the top of the polls. Now, long-time GOP strategists who were expecting Trump’s act to wear thin a couple of months ago worry that he can’t be stopped, or at least that he has a significant chance of winning the nomination.

It’s a drastic departure from the near-universal sentiment of the Republican establishment voiced when Trump announced his candidacy in June.

“I know all of us dismissed Trump, early on, all of the so-called experts,” Fox News’s Chris Wallace said Sunday. “‘Summer fling,’ ‘momentary amusement.’” But Wallace, who interviewed Trump late last week and aired portions of the interview on his show Sunday, said he finds himself feeling differently now. “As I watched that interview and I heard what he had to say . . . I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States,” he said.



Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 04:33:07
October 20 2015 04:28 GMT
#48446
On October 20 2015 13:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
It began as whispers in hushed corners: Could it ever happen? And now, just three months from the Iowa caucuses, members of the Republican establishment are starting to give voice to an increasingly common belief that Donald Trump, once dismissed as joke, a carnival barker, and a circus freak, might very well win the nomination.

“Trump is a serious player for the nomination at this time,” says Ed Rollins, who served as the national campaign director for Reagan’s 1984 reelection and as campaign chairman for Mike Huckabee in 2008.

Rollins is not alone in his views. “Trump has sustained a lead for longer than there are days left” before voting begins in Iowa, says Steve Schmidt, who managed John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. “For a long time,” Schmidt says, “you were talking to people in Washington, and there was a belief that there was an expiration date to this, as if there’s some secret group of people who have the ability to control the process.”

But for Trump, a dip in the polls after the second debate that many predicted was the beginning of the end has arrested; and for nearly four months, he has remained at the top of the polls. Now, long-time GOP strategists who were expecting Trump’s act to wear thin a couple of months ago worry that he can’t be stopped, or at least that he has a significant chance of winning the nomination.

It’s a drastic departure from the near-universal sentiment of the Republican establishment voiced when Trump announced his candidacy in June.

“I know all of us dismissed Trump, early on, all of the so-called experts,” Fox News’s Chris Wallace said Sunday. “‘Summer fling,’ ‘momentary amusement.’” But Wallace, who interviewed Trump late last week and aired portions of the interview on his show Sunday, said he finds himself feeling differently now. “As I watched that interview and I heard what he had to say . . . I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States,” he said.



Source


The Stockholm Syndrome is pretty amazing to watch in action, huh?
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 04:37:02
October 20 2015 04:29 GMT
#48447
On October 20 2015 13:11 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2015 12:22 Slaughter wrote:
I have been thinking about taxes for a bit and I was wondering for those of you here who are more knowledgeable in social/political/economic theory. Has anyone tried or proposed funding of specific things through voluntary tax options? Take something as currently contentious as planned parenthood. Instead of all this pretty useless arguing about its funding, why not have a section on tax forms that ask if you would want to willingly give extra money towards w/e program (in this example planned parent hood). These programs or w/e it is could make presentations of their benefits and make their cases. So like little ways for people to directly put their tax dollars where they want them to go. Obviously not on a huge scale.

This idea kind of struck me due to stores who sometimes ask "do you want to add $1 to your order for such and such charity?"

Just curious.

Cool idea. I don't like anything the government does, I will thus pay $0 in taxes.

The idea falls apart very fast under scrutiny. The reason why we have taxes and not donations in the first place is that we feel that certain things must be funded even if people don't want to fund them sufficiently. So the government takes from everyone to make sure that those essentials get paid for.

Currently, our government sees the services that PP provides as important enough to our society to use tax dollars on it. You may not like it, but if you look through the budget, I'd bet there are a whole lot of things you'd dislike. PP is just one of many and at least in its case, it is very likely driving down government costs in other areas due to the work they do.



I'm not talking about all taxes. I am talking about smaller to medium sized programs that perhaps are on the chopping block (or just luxuries) when making the budget. Taxes would remain as is for those essential government things like normal but more like a revitalization thing "hey you guys this potentially be very cool,want to give an extra buck that goes specifically to this?" Lets make our country a little bit better type thing.

Obviously I am not talking about fundamental public tasks stuff. I only used PP as an example more for size reasons. Lets say public works type things.


On October 20 2015 12:35 Nyxisto wrote:
That does sound more like charity than taxation though. I also don't think fundamental public tasks, in the case of planned parenthood healthcare for women is something that should fall under that category. I think on the contrary way too many jobs that should be covered by strong institutions have been handed over to charity or dubious semi-private schemes in almost all Western countries over the last two or three decades.

Just look at how many volunteers it takes in Germany to take care of the refugee situation. Without the goodwill of the population we'd be in deep shit. Under normal circumstances politics should take care of such things, that's what politicians are payed for. Delegating fundamental stuff to volunteers to save some bucks or to appease parties sounds troublesome.


As a side point. Why does PP need to exist? My impression was that it started as a way to give cheap medical services for reproductive health to women who might not have been able to afford it. Now with the expansion of healthcare isn't PP kind of outdated? Shouldn't everything PP does be provided through a woman's regular doctor/hospital instead of this specific organization? Are there other things out there that make PP a necessity in our society? I'm genuinely curious about these points. I suspect it might be due to the fuckery various elected officials try to pull in restrictions on abortion or the private feelings of some healthcare workers leading to discrimination?
Never Knows Best.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 20 2015 04:31 GMT
#48448
Slaughter -> such things are found.
The issues with them have already been covered by the other posters.
I'm not familiar with what effects they've had in practice; the massachusetts and new york state forms both have options for such

http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201_fill_in.pdf line 60
http://www.mass.gov/dor/docs/dor/forms/inctax14/f1-nrpy/form-1.pdf line 32

If you want to research those and see how well they've worked in practice.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
October 20 2015 04:39 GMT
#48449
On October 20 2015 13:31 zlefin wrote:
Slaughter -> such things are found.
The issues with them have already been covered by the other posters.
I'm not familiar with what effects they've had in practice; the massachusetts and new york state forms both have options for such

http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201_fill_in.pdf line 60
http://www.mass.gov/dor/docs/dor/forms/inctax14/f1-nrpy/form-1.pdf line 32

If you want to research those and see how well they've worked in practice.


Thanks I will look into these and others that come up when I have time (if there even is data out there on this).
Never Knows Best.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 20 2015 13:11 GMT
#48450
bidennnnn
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 16:56:05
October 20 2015 15:37 GMT
#48451
Looks like Hillary stopped the bleeding during the debate. Sanders got a bit of a boost since he made a good impression on millions of watchers, but Hillary reminded a lot of people why she was a favorite after taking punches from the media and the right for the last few months. Biden predictably suffered with a non-appearance. Thursday's Benghazi hearing will likely give her an additional boost as the left rallies around her unless she gives a completely abysmal testimony. Bonus points if she gives Trey Gowdy a figurative aneurysm.

EDIT: Also, Jim Webb is out.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 20 2015 15:52 GMT
#48452
More than 80 companies — including Nike, Ikea and Procter & Gamble — have announced actions they will take to reduce their carbon emissions and have pledged their support for the Paris climate talks this December.

In signing the American Business Act on Climate pledge, sponsored by President Barack Obama, each company agreed Monday to take steps — including reducing greenhouse gas emissions, ramping up the use of renewable energy sources, increasing carbon capture methods and limiting waste — to reduce their impact on the environment and help avert the worst effects of global warming.

“Countries and communities around the world are already being affected by deeper, more persistent droughts, pounded by more severe weather, inundated by bigger storm surges and imperiled by more frequent and dangerous wildfires," the White House said in a news release.

At the United Nations Conference of the Parties (COP 21) climate negotiations in Paris this December, world leaders will gather to pledge action on global warming — culminating in the signing of a global climate treaty. Obama has said the United States will cut nearly 6 billion tons of carbon pollution through 2030.

The U.S. needs the needs the private sector to reach that goal. Electricity generation, transportation and industry are the top three contributors to U.S. emissions, accounting for 31 percent, 27 percent and 21 percent, respectively. The agriculture sector accounts for about 9 percent of U.S. emissions, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

Climate change control advocates welcomed the companies’ commitments.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 20 2015 16:52 GMT
#48453
The moderate wing of the GOP is concerned that if the House cannot coalesce behind Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) or someone like him as speaker, some of the more pragmatic members of the caucus will retire, the National Journal reported Monday.

“De­pend­ing on how this shakes out, you may see some Main Street mem­bers re­tire,” Sarah Cham­ber­lain -- chief op­er­at­ing and fin­an­cial of­ficer for the Republic­an Main Street Part­ner­ship, which supports moderate GOP lawmakers -- told the National Journal. "They’re hop­ing for a Ry­an-type can­did­ate. But if it’s not and it be­comes a huge mess, why be sit­ting here?”

Two of the most vocal GOP critics of the conservative hardliners who have been roiling House leadership suggested to National Journal that the thought of retirement was weighing on members' minds, even if they themselves weren't currently considering stepping down.


“A lot has been put on hold in both ways—people de­cid­ing to run again, or not run again,” Rep. Pete King (R-NY) told National Journal, while saying he personally is not considering retiring "be­cause you can’t give in."

Likewise, Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) said he was "pre­par­ing as if I’m run­ning for reelec­tion right now."

"But we’ll see what hap­pens. The next two months are go­ing to be pretty intense,” Dent said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 17:08:44
October 20 2015 17:07 GMT
#48454
Petraeus now Brennan, the next CIA director needs to prove he understands how email works.

lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 18:39:28
October 20 2015 18:39 GMT
#48455
my i am the global power pose

[image loading]
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23885 Posts
October 20 2015 18:41 GMT
#48456
On October 21 2015 01:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The moderate wing of the GOP is concerned that if the House cannot coalesce behind Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) or someone like him as speaker, some of the more pragmatic members of the caucus will retire, the National Journal reported Monday.

“De­pend­ing on how this shakes out, you may see some Main Street mem­bers re­tire,” Sarah Cham­ber­lain -- chief op­er­at­ing and fin­an­cial of­ficer for the Republic­an Main Street Part­ner­ship, which supports moderate GOP lawmakers -- told the National Journal. "They’re hop­ing for a Ry­an-type can­did­ate. But if it’s not and it be­comes a huge mess, why be sit­ting here?”

Two of the most vocal GOP critics of the conservative hardliners who have been roiling House leadership suggested to National Journal that the thought of retirement was weighing on members' minds, even if they themselves weren't currently considering stepping down.


“A lot has been put on hold in both ways—people de­cid­ing to run again, or not run again,” Rep. Pete King (R-NY) told National Journal, while saying he personally is not considering retiring "be­cause you can’t give in."

Likewise, Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) said he was "pre­par­ing as if I’m run­ning for reelec­tion right now."

"But we’ll see what hap­pens. The next two months are go­ing to be pretty intense,” Dent said.


Source



Well the establishment Republican party is in it's death throws...


Mission accomplished?

I'm not going to lie about the fact that the leading nominee for the republican party saying he doesn't buy the standby Republican line about Bush keeping us safe, thinks going to Iraq was a downright stupid idea, thinks everyone should have access to healthcare (regardless of income), and and says he's basically against citizens united makes me laugh.

Is Canada a preview for the "liberal" sweep coming down here? Ryan was the house's go to guy, now it sounds even if they got him to say yes he wouldn't have the votes.

Republicans literally can't lead themselves and they think people are going to hand them the country!?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 18:47:17
October 20 2015 18:46 GMT
#48457
On October 21 2015 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2015 01:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The moderate wing of the GOP is concerned that if the House cannot coalesce behind Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) or someone like him as speaker, some of the more pragmatic members of the caucus will retire, the National Journal reported Monday.

“De­pend­ing on how this shakes out, you may see some Main Street mem­bers re­tire,” Sarah Cham­ber­lain -- chief op­er­at­ing and fin­an­cial of­ficer for the Republic­an Main Street Part­ner­ship, which supports moderate GOP lawmakers -- told the National Journal. "They’re hop­ing for a Ry­an-type can­did­ate. But if it’s not and it be­comes a huge mess, why be sit­ting here?”

Two of the most vocal GOP critics of the conservative hardliners who have been roiling House leadership suggested to National Journal that the thought of retirement was weighing on members' minds, even if they themselves weren't currently considering stepping down.


“A lot has been put on hold in both ways—people de­cid­ing to run again, or not run again,” Rep. Pete King (R-NY) told National Journal, while saying he personally is not considering retiring "be­cause you can’t give in."

Likewise, Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) said he was "pre­par­ing as if I’m run­ning for reelec­tion right now."

"But we’ll see what hap­pens. The next two months are go­ing to be pretty intense,” Dent said.


Source



Well the establishment Republican party is in it's death throws...


Mission accomplished?

I'm not going to lie about the fact that the leading nominee for the republican party saying he doesn't buy the standby Republican line about Bush keeping us safe, thinks going to Iraq was a downright stupid idea, thinks everyone should have access to healthcare (regardless of income), and and says he's basically against citizens united makes me laugh.

Is Canada a preview for the "liberal" sweep coming down here? Ryan was the house's go to guy, now it sounds even if they got him to say yes he wouldn't have the votes.

Republicans literally can't lead themselves and they think people are going to hand them the country!?

Its hard to lead when the base they created wouldn’t understand what it was if they did. The simple fact is that the people who like Trump and think he “Will make America Great Again” don’t know what they want. What they do know is that they blame the government, Obama and politicians for all of their problems and they wanted it torn down.

And people are idiots and think Trump will serve the people. Bucking the “establishment’ means you don’t want to listen to people who are in power. Its also means you might not listen to the voters either. But the idea the Trump is in it for just Trump never crosses their minds. Or they truly believe that voting for a self serving bigot will somehow improve their life.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23885 Posts
October 20 2015 18:55 GMT
#48458
On October 21 2015 03:46 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2015 03:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 21 2015 01:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The moderate wing of the GOP is concerned that if the House cannot coalesce behind Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) or someone like him as speaker, some of the more pragmatic members of the caucus will retire, the National Journal reported Monday.

“De­pend­ing on how this shakes out, you may see some Main Street mem­bers re­tire,” Sarah Cham­ber­lain -- chief op­er­at­ing and fin­an­cial of­ficer for the Republic­an Main Street Part­ner­ship, which supports moderate GOP lawmakers -- told the National Journal. "They’re hop­ing for a Ry­an-type can­did­ate. But if it’s not and it be­comes a huge mess, why be sit­ting here?”

Two of the most vocal GOP critics of the conservative hardliners who have been roiling House leadership suggested to National Journal that the thought of retirement was weighing on members' minds, even if they themselves weren't currently considering stepping down.


“A lot has been put on hold in both ways—people de­cid­ing to run again, or not run again,” Rep. Pete King (R-NY) told National Journal, while saying he personally is not considering retiring "be­cause you can’t give in."

Likewise, Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) said he was "pre­par­ing as if I’m run­ning for reelec­tion right now."

"But we’ll see what hap­pens. The next two months are go­ing to be pretty intense,” Dent said.


Source



Well the establishment Republican party is in it's death throws...


Mission accomplished?

I'm not going to lie about the fact that the leading nominee for the republican party saying he doesn't buy the standby Republican line about Bush keeping us safe, thinks going to Iraq was a downright stupid idea, thinks everyone should have access to healthcare (regardless of income), and and says he's basically against citizens united makes me laugh.

Is Canada a preview for the "liberal" sweep coming down here? Ryan was the house's go to guy, now it sounds even if they got him to say yes he wouldn't have the votes.

Republicans literally can't lead themselves and they think people are going to hand them the country!?

Its hard to lead when the base they created wouldn’t understand what it was if they did. The simple fact is that the people who like Trump and think he “Will make America Great Again” don’t know what they want. What they do know is that they blame the government, Obama and politicians for all of their problems and they wanted it torn down.

And people are idiots and think Trump will serve the people. Bucking the “establishment’ means you don’t want to listen to people who are in power. Its also means you might not listen to the voters either. But the idea the Trump is in it for just Trump never crosses their minds. Or they truly believe that voting for a self serving bigot will somehow improve their life.


Or they truly believe that voting for a self serving bigot will somehow improve their life.


"He's like one of us" (actual quote from a NH focus group in reference to Trump)
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
October 20 2015 22:15 GMT
#48459
People in NH must have a lot of money
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 22:21:59
October 20 2015 22:21 GMT
#48460
Well, money aside, Trump is probably much more like the people of New Hampshire than Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, or Carly Fiorina. Unless having your own SuperPAC is a common thing there.
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