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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2256

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
September 01 2015 05:23 GMT
#45101
On September 01 2015 13:57 Introvert wrote:
Who was deluding themselves? These polls are released constantly.


The Ted Cruz one is new, no? I don't think you are really appreciating it's beauty.

It so succinctly sums up what's wrong with the Republican party and why Trump is dominating the nomination process thus far.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5082 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-01 06:06:15
September 01 2015 06:04 GMT
#45102
On September 01 2015 14:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2015 13:57 Introvert wrote:
Who was deluding themselves? These polls are released constantly.


The Ted Cruz one is new, no? I don't think you are really appreciating it's beauty.

It so succinctly sums up what's wrong with the Republican party and why Trump is dominating the nomination process thus far.



You said

Not that it surprises those not deluding themselves, but the overwhelming majority of Republican voters still think Obama is (or may be) a foreign-born Muslim.


Do you mean the people who believe that are deluding themselves? That sentence is unclear. It seems like you are talking about those who do believe Obama was born a citizen and that Cruz was not born in the USA- that some of them are deluding themselves.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
September 01 2015 07:46 GMT
#45103
On September 01 2015 15:04 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2015 14:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 01 2015 13:57 Introvert wrote:
Who was deluding themselves? These polls are released constantly.


The Ted Cruz one is new, no? I don't think you are really appreciating it's beauty.

It so succinctly sums up what's wrong with the Republican party and why Trump is dominating the nomination process thus far.



You said

Show nested quote +
Not that it surprises those not deluding themselves, but the overwhelming majority of Republican voters still think Obama is (or may be) a foreign-born Muslim.


Do you mean the people who believe that are deluding themselves? That sentence is unclear. It seems like you are talking about those who do believe Obama was born a citizen and that Cruz was not born in the USA- that some of them are deluding themselves.


That Republicans are deluding themselves not seeing the connection between not saying more when that rhetoric started and Trumps success now. That they didn't wait too long. That Trump, as the champion of that movement, is not an aberration of the party, but representative of it's most active and cohesive groups at the grassroots level.

Reflective of that in part, is that those numbers are actually up slightly over roughly this time last year.

It's not just Trump, it's climate change, background checks, renaming mountains, and lots of stuff in between.

Behind Trump is Carson who is the darling of the "We should make Christianity the official religion of the US" crowd.

TLDR; The very groups people have dismissed as marginal and not representative of the party are in total control of the nomination process currently.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 01 2015 15:12 GMT
#45104
Just arrest this woman already....

Despite a Supreme Court ruling that compelled a Rowan County clerk in Kentucky to give out marriage licenses to gay couples, Kim Davis refused to comply once again on Tuesday morning by denying marriage licenses to everyone.

Ryland Barton, a reporter for Kentucky Public Radio, reports that Davis said she made the decision "under God's authority."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-01 15:18:42
September 01 2015 15:17 GMT
#45105
On September 02 2015 00:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Just arrest this woman already....

Show nested quote +
Despite a Supreme Court ruling that compelled a Rowan County clerk in Kentucky to give out marriage licenses to gay couples, Kim Davis refused to comply once again on Tuesday morning by denying marriage licenses to everyone.

Ryland Barton, a reporter for Kentucky Public Radio, reports that Davis said she made the decision "under God's authority."


Source

God doesn't have jurisdiction in Kentucky.

I am sure someone is working on issuing the contempt order right now and issuing a warrant. And, of course, some folks will play her up as the victim. Not the couples she has been denying their right to marriage because she wants to enforce her religion on people while collecting a government pay check.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 01 2015 15:22 GMT
#45106
Well she can be a "victim" while sitting in Cell block C.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 01 2015 15:30 GMT
#45107
The fact that she is not letting anyone else do it is the worst part. I can accept someone farming the job off to someone else due to a religious objection. But the flat out denial of government services due to a religious objection is trash.

I wonder if the same thing happened when interracial marriages were legalized.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 01 2015 16:05 GMT
#45108
Submerged countries, abandoned cities and hordes of refugees from low-lying areas await the world barring urgent action on climate change, President Barack Obama warned Monday, painting a doomsday scenario as he opened a historic visit to Alaska.

In a bid to further his environmental legacy, Obama brought the power of the presidential pulpit to Anchorage and called on a meeting of foreign ministers to take swift action as negotiations for a global climate treaty. In a speech to an Arctic climate summit, Obama sought to set the tone for a three-day tour of Alaska that will put the state's liquefying glaciers and sinking villages on graphic display.

"This year, in Paris, must be the year that the world finally reaches an agreement to protect the one planet we've got while we still can," Obama said, according to his prepared remarks.

Obama added that the threat of climate change is "urgent and growing" and "will define the contours of this century more dramatically than any other."

Evoking ominous consequences, Obama said that left unchecked, climate change would soon trigger global conflict and "condemn our children to a planet beyond their capacity to repair."

"It's already changing the way Alaskans live," Obama said.

In the Arctic, which is warming faster than any other corner of the globe, Obama said melting permafrost and disintegrating sea ice present the risk of floods, fires and unimaginable economic damage. "The science is stark, it is sharpening, and it proves that this once-distant threat is now very much in the present," he said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
September 01 2015 16:49 GMT
#45109
I can't see why you guys have to go so far as to say she should be arrested. A simple firing would be fine. If she won't uphold the law of the land then she can't be an employee of the US government. There's nothing criminal in her behavior, she just can't do her job because of her religious convictions and so should find other work. There's no reason to be so extreme.
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18488 Posts
September 01 2015 16:55 GMT
#45110
On September 02 2015 01:49 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I can't see why you guys have to go so far as to say she should be arrested. A simple firing would be fine. If she won't uphold the law of the land then she can't be an employee of the US government. There's nothing criminal in her behavior, she just can't do her job because of her religious convictions and so should find other work. There's no reason to be so extreme.

Agreed
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 01 2015 16:56 GMT
#45111
On September 02 2015 01:49 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I can't see why you guys have to go so far as to say she should be arrested. A simple firing would be fine. If she won't uphold the law of the land then she can't be an employee of the US government. There's nothing criminal in her behavior, she just can't do her job because of her religious convictions and so should find other work. There's no reason to be so extreme.

The issue is that the local government has not fired her due to this court case. And she has not resigned or been forced out. But until the, the government is supposed to issue those license today, so they need to fire her or she is in contempt.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
September 01 2015 16:58 GMT
#45112
On September 02 2015 01:49 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I can't see why you guys have to go so far as to say she should be arrested. A simple firing would be fine. If she won't uphold the law of the land then she can't be an employee of the US government. There's nothing criminal in her behavior, she just can't do her job because of her religious convictions and so should find other work. There's no reason to be so extreme.


The only thing that would tip her over the line to deserving something more than firing (at least a fine) is if she's not allowing other people in the department to issue licenses either, which I'm not 100% sure of from the article.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 01 2015 17:03 GMT
#45113
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/politics/kentucky-gay-marriage-licenses-supreme-court/index.html

Per this CNN article, she denied them this morning. No gay couples are getting married are getting married while she holds that office. And they don't seem to be moving to let her go.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-01 17:05:44
September 01 2015 17:03 GMT
#45114
On September 02 2015 01:56 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2015 01:49 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I can't see why you guys have to go so far as to say she should be arrested. A simple firing would be fine. If she won't uphold the law of the land then she can't be an employee of the US government. There's nothing criminal in her behavior, she just can't do her job because of her religious convictions and so should find other work. There's no reason to be so extreme.

The issue is that the local government has not fired her due to this court case. And she has not resigned or been forced out. But until the, the government is supposed to issue those license today, so they need to fire her or she is in contempt.


According to this, she can't really be fired:
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Legal-expert-weighs-in-on-county-clerks-refusing-marriage-licenses-312720821.html

"There's no boss there that can say, 'You're fired,'" said Scott Bauries, a law professor at the University of Kentucky College of Law. "We sort of assume that the electoral process will take care of elected officials who refuse to do their job. But that's a problem if you want to get married and you're a same-sex couple and you have the right to get married."

Bauries says those who would want to get married would have to seek what's called a writ of mandamus - basically an injunction against the elected officials. That could lead to a court battle that could take months, or maybe even years, Bauries said.


I agree that there should be repercussions, I just don't really know what it would look like. Can county clerks be impeached or something? I suppose that's similar (or the same?) as a "writ of mandamus", but all of that looks like it will take time and isn't as simple as a contract termination.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18876 Posts
September 01 2015 17:10 GMT
#45115
She almost certainly cannot be fired, but once the contempt proceedings get underway, the overseeing judge will likely force her to quit via the nature of the sanctions levied against her.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-01 17:12:53
September 01 2015 17:11 GMT
#45116
There is likely a process for removing someone who can't do their job. But there needs to be the political will to do it. And it doesn't look like that is what is happening, so the couples turned to the federal courts.

On September 02 2015 02:10 farvacola wrote:
She almost certainly cannot be fired, but once the contempt proceedings get underway, the overseeing judge will likely force her to quit via the nature of the sanctions levied against her.


I am sure there will be some sort of ground funding efforts if that happens. Because that is how these things work now a days.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
September 01 2015 17:20 GMT
#45117
On September 02 2015 02:10 farvacola wrote:
She almost certainly cannot be fired, but once the contempt proceedings get underway, the overseeing judge will likely force her to quit via the nature of the sanctions levied against her.

Contempt - fined - still not complying - fined again - still not complying - jailed - replaced.
Should only take a few years.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 01 2015 17:23 GMT
#45118
She could be impeached and removed, or the KY Attorney General can intervene and do some legal wrangling. He, however, is the current Democratic nominee for KY governor so he's doing the least bold things possible.
Freeeeeeedom
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 01 2015 17:32 GMT
#45119
On September 02 2015 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2015 02:10 farvacola wrote:
She almost certainly cannot be fired, but once the contempt proceedings get underway, the overseeing judge will likely force her to quit via the nature of the sanctions levied against her.

Contempt - fined - still not complying - fined again - still not complying - jailed - replaced.
Should only take a few years.

Doubt it. Once the court has decided the issues of fact, they move pretty quickly. This is a binary question: Is she denying gay couples marriage licenses? If yes, then contempt.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
September 01 2015 17:32 GMT
#45120
Yea I read it would take a special session to have her removed or something because of where they are with their legislature.

Btw the couples who are suing are asking only for financial penalties and not to give her jail time.
Never Knows Best.
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