EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2211
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
Falling
Canada11440 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23715 Posts
On August 19 2015 14:47 Introvert wrote: Mostly a New World thing. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/18/432707866/3-things-you-should-know-about-birthright-citizenship One of those times someone on the right could shout "be more like Europe!"  Edit: not sure why I put "new world" in quotes. Because it wasn't "new" to the people living there for thousands of years? The phrasing is a remnant of white supremacist history. It was like you made an inadvertent acknowledgement, quickly corrected by ideology. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On August 19 2015 14:44 Slaughter wrote: Do other countries not have the "born here = citizen" thing? I dunno why Chinese would pay such large amounts of money to do that in the US. I would have picked a better country if I was going to fork over that kind of cash. Thing one: hard as it is to believe, lots of people would rather be in the US than anywhere else. We have our problems, but the rich Chinese immigrant is unlikely to have trouble with our penal system and is almost by defnition not looking for an abortion. The US middle class is still among the very richest in the world, significantly above most rich European countries excepting Scandanavia and a particular Grand Duchy. Thing two: no. US is in line with most OAS countries, but EU coutries generally don't have this. Idea of nation not as people living in a place, but as a race/culture. I, for one, don't want us headed in the European direction on this. | ||
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Evotroid
Hungary176 Posts
On August 19 2015 16:49 GreenHorizons wrote: Because it wasn't "new" to the people living there for thousands of years? The phrasing is a remnant of white supremacist history. It was like you made an inadvertent acknowledgement, quickly corrected by ideology. First let me say that overall I like your posting (like 9 out of 10 times, I would agree with the more left leaning posts in the topic) but.. Please stop with painting white supremacy over everything and anything, please. Back in the day, when they arrived there, it was all new for them, so they started calling it the new world, end of story. No one gave a flying rat's ear about race or supremacy, it was just the new world for the people drawing the maps and writing the books. I get that the race issue is of importance of you, and I also do think it is an important issue today still, but these kneejerk responses to everything where white supremacy can be attached just bagatellise the issue and give munition to the other side to shout "RABID SJW". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10856 Posts
Thats true, BUT thats not the reason why America was called "New World". It was called like that because thats what it was to the european people at the time. Bringing the whole topic of white supermacy into this is just stupid. Your guys are doing this again: To be fair there is such a thing as being overly 'protective' or overly ready to be offended over issues. For example I remember reading the discussion you were in Plansix in the Witcher3 thread about how woman are portrayed in the game and I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the people crying about the game not having enough diversity and all that - when people get to that point in my mind they are just looking to be upset about shit Even when one basically agrees with you, that stuff is just way obverboard and makes you look like fanatics. No one listens to fanatics, even if they bring up good points which you certainly often do. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 19 2015 13:39 Wegandi wrote: I'll bite. I've talked about work-related deaths many times here, and I'm pretty rabidly anti-war, which has been the major cause of contemporary homelessness as veterans make up the vast majority of the homeless. Besides, even if I never did before, it doesn't take away those facts. It's not even like it's close. Men make up 99% of on the job deaths and 85% of the homeless. If only modern feminism and post-modernism was confined to Tumblr. It's infested western society and culture. The anarchocapitalist moans about worker conditions and homelessness and wonders why people dont take him serious. Yours second point is also funny. Both, the right and the left, the anarchists and the conservatives always complain about how they have to fight the cultural hegemony of the opposing site and how society is infested with a damaging ideology. Of course, only my own position is the one which is correct. | ||
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Evotroid
Hungary176 Posts
On August 19 2015 19:44 Plansix wrote: Back in the day when North America was "discovered" the majority of the population was super, duper racist. Of course it is all relative, but the concept that the white culture in EU was the "superior" culture was prevelant. Yeah and I just want to quickly reiterate I do not deny that, I even tell you that right now today it is prevalent where I live. Still, that does not make it so, that everyone always did everything after giving long and hard thought about their supremacy. What my point is, basically: saying that it was called new world because of white supremacy is like saying that when a nazi goes in the shop for milk he will think to himself "oh boy, what a lovely day, I will buy some milk because its white like me, and keep your dark colored wares away from me" no, he just wants some damn milk. He may be a die hard nazi, and even an all around evil person, and still just want some milk without all the ideology bs. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 19 2015 20:11 Evotroid wrote: Yeah and I just want to quickly reiterate I do not deny that, I even tell you that right now today it is prevalent where I live. Still, that does not make it so, that everyone always did everything after giving long and hard thought about their supremacy. What my point is, basically: saying that it was called new world because of white supremacy is like saying that when a nazi goes in the shop for milk he will think to himself "oh boy, what a lovely day, I will buy some milk because its white like me, and keep your dark colored wares away from me" no, he just wants some damn milk. He may be a die hard nazi, and even an all around evil person, and still just want some milk without all the ideology bs. You did say race was no a major concern for the EU explorers. And you are right because the prevailing belief was that they were superior and the cultures they found were "savage natives". You only need to read about the accounts of the interactions with the first EU explores with the native cultures to understand that. And I am not sure if "New World" is a term commonly used by White Supremacist, but that is the type of shit they are into. Evoking terms used in a more racist time and co-opting them for their movement. So I would not be shocked in the least if hung their hat on the term "New World" On August 19 2015 19:56 Velr wrote: ... Arghl... Thats true, BUT thats not the reason why America was called "New World". It was called like that because thats what it was to the european people at the time. Bringing the whole topic of white supermacy into this is just stupid. Your guys are doing this again: Even when one basically agrees with you, that stuff is just way obverboard and makes you look like fanatics. No one listens to fanatics, even if they bring up good points which you certainly often do. If we are talk about about over used terms, lets talk about how everyone who wants to discuss sexism or racism is labeled a "fanatic" or "radical". The amount of times I hear the phrase "fanatical feminist" to describe total calm, moderate feminist is straight up comical. And I wasn't talking about the use of the term "new world". I was talking about the EU explorers being not concerned with race, ever writings and interactions with the native cultures contradicts that. | ||
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Evotroid
Hungary176 Posts
On August 19 2015 20:19 Plansix wrote: You did say race was no a major concern for the EU explorers. And you are right because the prevailing belief was that they were superior and the cultures they found were "savage natives". You only need to read about the accounts of the interactions with the first EU explores with the native cultures to understand that. And I am not sure if "New World" is a term commonly used by White Supremacist, but that is the type of shit they are into. Evoking terms used in a more racist time and co-opting them for their movement. So I would not be shocked in the least if hung their hat on the term "New World" We still don't understand each other  I meant race was not a concern for them in naming the new world they found the "New World". Maybe it is the language barrier, so one last try: I think that white supremacy -even though it was prevalent- played no role in the naming, and so, I think it's usage in this example just waters down the issue. For example, in my view, even in an alternate reality where no one was a white supremacist, they would still come to call it the new world, because shoot, it was new to them. If you take issue with that I am honestly interested what do you think exactly how did white supremacy cause it to be called new world. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On August 19 2015 15:40 Mohdoo wrote: birthright citizenship needs to go. It doesn't really make sense at all. I feel like liberals have a kneejerk response to supporting it because it helps poor little immigrant babies. It's more of the white guilt liberals + minorities who want to squeeze america of its wealth through welfare | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10856 Posts
Someone calls "the New World", the new world and asks himself why he put it in ". Along comes Greenhorizon; "Cause of White Supermacy". Uhm, what? 1: It made no sense. 2: It wasn't on topic. 3: Its just blatant agenda pushing. Its not about overusing Terms, its about creating issues/discussion where there never even was a reason for it. People in the middle Ages/Renaissance were racist? No shit, how exactly does this matter in this context again? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
But this could have been easily corrected by asking GH how he was linking the term "New World" to white supremacist. But asking questions isn't something people do at lot in this thread, much to all of our faults. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 19 2015 21:55 Deathstar wrote: It's more of the white guilt liberals + minorities who want to squeeze america of its wealth through welfare ahh yes, the minorities who steal america all its wealth thorugh welfare. a classic | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10856 Posts
On August 19 2015 22:04 Plansix wrote: I mean, you are misquoting him, but sure. There is well documented history middle Ages/Renaissance of EU expressing views of racial superiority, which is the root of modern day white supremacist movement. But this could have been easily corrected by asking GH how he was linking the term "New World" to white supremacist. But asking questions isn't something people do at lot in this thread, much to all of our faults. Sigh. And? This had still nothing to do with the Topic. Everything you say is correct but still, all its doing is driving this whole thing offtopic, like it does time and time again because certain People seem to get a hardon when they can bring up white sumpermacy or feminism or whatever into a discussion. This was about people being Born in the US automatically getting US-Citizenship. It had, in no form at all, something to do with white supermacy or anything else. Yet, here we are because someone got triggered by „new world“… | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 19 2015 22:41 Velr wrote: Sigh. And? This had still nothing to do with the Topic. Everything you say is correct but still, all its doing is driving this whole thing offtopic, like it does time and time again because certain People seem to get a hardon when they can bring up white sumpermacy or feminism or whatever into a discussion. This was about people being Born in the US automatically getting US-Citizenship. It had, in no form at all, something to do with white supermacy or anything else. Yet, here we are because someone got triggered by „new world“… From this point of view people were triggered by the phrase white supremacy. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 19 2015 22:40 Deathstar wrote: Yeah you are bad at posting. I said want to squeeze. They're not stealing because the white guilt liberals will hand over a bunch of welfare programs to these perennially poor and uneducated people, some of who are not even American citizens rofl. He responded to hyperbole with hyperbole. It seemed reasonable. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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