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On June 27 2015 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 07:55 cLutZ wrote:Actually, I think it's hard to argue that you can have freedom of religion with taxation Please explain because I don't see how a church having to pay taxes limits your religious freedom. freedom of religion is a misnomer. its the free exercise clause thats at play. if the government can tax religious organizations, it can use that power to discriminate against or govern religions.
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In a week of painstakingly drafted Supreme Court decisions, no literary effort was crafted more gingerly than Jeb Bush’s statement following the high court’s 5-to-4 endorsement of same-sex marriage rights on Friday.
First, the former Florida governor paid homage to his beliefs and to evangelical political orthodoxy. “Guided by my faith, I believe in traditional marriage,” he wrote.
Then, he quickly pivoted to the more popular political center: “I also believe that we should love our neighbor and respect others, including those making lifetime commitments. In a country as diverse as ours, good people who have opposing views should be able to live side by side.”
That statement – a live-and-let-live strategy that closely mirrors his brother George’s approach to abortion a decade ago – underscored Bush’s personal opposition to same-sex marriage as a devout Catholic. But more than anything, it revealed a maneuvering, modern conservative worried about his party being caught on the wrong side of history – whatever his personal view of the issue.
Democrats, and many other Americans of varying political stripes enjoyed a feel-good national moment, but the GOP wasn’t invited to the party – Republicans were worrying about how to keep from being trampled by the accelerating gallop of 21st-century social change.
“In the state of Nevada, you can get married to a hooker who you met at the bar 30 minutes after meeting her with a blood alcohol level of 3.2 by an Elvis at a drive-through,” said Steve Schmidt, who managed the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain. “At the end of the day, it’s an untenable position to be against ultimately millions of actual Americans’ marriages and commitments.”
Richard Land, the firebrand evangelical leader who wrote the famous letter urging Christians to support George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq, summed up the view of many on the right tier of the Republican presidential field. “It’s a sad day for the country and now the battlefield shifts to freedom of conscience,” he told POLITICO. “It’s going to be an important issue in 2016.”
It’s also a matter of old-fashioned wedge politics, and Democrats are delighted at the growing roster of issues pulling the GOP backward through time. Last week, Southern Republicans were stunned by the wave of public, bipartisan sentiment against state-sanctioned displays of the Confederate flag in the wake of the Charleston massacre. After a stumbling start, local Republicans acted with deliberate speed, and not just in South Carolina: Alabama’s Robert Bentley, one of the country’s most conservative governors, ordered the rebel battle flag lowered over the capitol in Montgomery, where the civil war was declared and George Wallace delivered his “segregation forever” speech.”
Still, many standard-issue Republican positions, though they remain regional political assets in the South and parts of the Midwest, are underwater: The GOP’s blanket opposition to minimum-wage hikes, a more open immigration policy, and background checks on guns and lockstep support for tough anti-abortion laws and tax breaks for the wealthy all poll relatively poorly.
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On June 27 2015 08:03 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2015 07:55 cLutZ wrote:Actually, I think it's hard to argue that you can have freedom of religion with taxation Please explain because I don't see how a church having to pay taxes limits your religious freedom. freedom of religion is a misnomer. its the free exercise clause thats at play. if the government can tax religious organizations, it can use that power to discriminate against or govern religions.
We wouldn't want to interfere with taxes when people want to pool together and by Creflo Dolla a new jet amirite? Amen!
“In the state of Nevada, you can get married to a hooker who you met at the bar 30 minutes after meeting her with a blood alcohol level of 3.2 by an Elvis at a drive-through,” said Steve Schmidt, who managed the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain. “At the end of the day, it’s an untenable position to be against ultimately millions of actual Americans’ marriages and commitments.”
Untenable certainly seems to be relative.
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sometimes I really like Steve Schmidt
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On June 27 2015 08:03 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2015 07:55 cLutZ wrote:Actually, I think it's hard to argue that you can have freedom of religion with taxation Please explain because I don't see how a church having to pay taxes limits your religious freedom. freedom of religion is a misnomer. its the free exercise clause thats at play. if the government can tax religious organizations, it can use that power to discriminate against or govern religions. Yes.
On June 27 2015 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 08:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 27 2015 07:59 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2015 07:55 cLutZ wrote:Actually, I think it's hard to argue that you can have freedom of religion with taxation Please explain because I don't see how a church having to pay taxes limits your religious freedom. freedom of religion is a misnomer. its the free exercise clause thats at play. if the government can tax religious organizations, it can use that power to discriminate against or govern religions. We wouldn't want to interfere with taxes when people want to pool together and by Creflo Dolla a new jet amirite? Amen! Show nested quote +“In the state of Nevada, you can get married to a hooker who you met at the bar 30 minutes after meeting her with a blood alcohol level of 3.2 by an Elvis at a drive-through,” said Steve Schmidt, who managed the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain. “At the end of the day, it’s an untenable position to be against ultimately millions of actual Americans’ marriages and commitments.” Untenable certainly seems to be relative. Not on this, the abuse of tax code by one religious organization doesn't correctly illustrate the point. Just look at cigarette taxes. The taxes on cigs are a very strong disincentive from smoking, and have in some states created a huge black market. And it isn't just discriminating, they could potentially tax at a high enough rate to force all religions underground.
The more modern society progresses, the more it seems like an income tax is incompatible, or at least at odds with, many of our basic rights/protections enshrined in the Constitution.
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After calling the last day "some of the darkest 24 hours in our nation's history," Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) is now calling for Supreme Court justices to face elections.
In a National Review op-ed published Friday, Cruz chastised the high court for its decisions to reject a major challenge to Obamacare and to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide.
"Both decisions were judicial activism, plain and simple," Cruz writes. "Both were lawless."
To challenge that "judicial activism," Cruz said he is proposing a constitutional amendment to require Supreme Court justices to face retention elections every eight years.
"The decisions that have deformed our constitutional order and have debased our culture are but symptoms of the disease of liberal judicial activism that has infected our judiciary," Cruz writes. "A remedy is needed that will restore health to the sick man in our constitutional system. Rendering the justices directly accountable to the people would provide such a remedy."
Under Cruz's proposed amendment, justices would have to be approved by a majority of American voters as well as by the majority of voters in least half of the states. If they failed to reach the required approval rating, they would be removed from office and barred from serving on the Supreme Court in the future.
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On June 27 2015 10:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +After calling the last day "some of the darkest 24 hours in our nation's history," Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) is now calling for Supreme Court justices to face elections.
In a National Review op-ed published Friday, Cruz chastised the high court for its decisions to reject a major challenge to Obamacare and to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide.
"Both decisions were judicial activism, plain and simple," Cruz writes. "Both were lawless."
To challenge that "judicial activism," Cruz said he is proposing a constitutional amendment to require Supreme Court justices to face retention elections every eight years.
"The decisions that have deformed our constitutional order and have debased our culture are but symptoms of the disease of liberal judicial activism that has infected our judiciary," Cruz writes. "A remedy is needed that will restore health to the sick man in our constitutional system. Rendering the justices directly accountable to the people would provide such a remedy."
Under Cruz's proposed amendment, justices would have to be approved by a majority of American voters as well as by the majority of voters in least half of the states. If they failed to reach the required approval rating, they would be removed from office and barred from serving on the Supreme Court in the future. Source
So freaking salty. Meanwhile, states like Mississippi and Oklahoma are considering stopping issuing marriage licenses altogether.
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The fact that this has become such a focus for so much of the nation speaks volumes about how bad the political situation is in this country. All this personal freedom, religious freedom, lifestyle shit should have been done with back in the 60's or before but yet we still spend all of the medias time repeating the same stuff over and over again. Makes me wonder if there will ever be any serious discussion of cutting military spending, removing our 100+ military bases from countries they don't belong in, actually regulating industry and food production, or insulating our political system from being completely bought by the wealthy and big companies. These discussions will never happen because we are going to incessantly bickering about guns, abortion and if we are okay with people being homosexual or not. so done with it
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On June 27 2015 10:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +After calling the last day "some of the darkest 24 hours in our nation's history," Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) is now calling for Supreme Court justices to face elections.
In a National Review op-ed published Friday, Cruz chastised the high court for its decisions to reject a major challenge to Obamacare and to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide.
"Both decisions were judicial activism, plain and simple," Cruz writes. "Both were lawless."
To challenge that "judicial activism," Cruz said he is proposing a constitutional amendment to require Supreme Court justices to face retention elections every eight years.
"The decisions that have deformed our constitutional order and have debased our culture are but symptoms of the disease of liberal judicial activism that has infected our judiciary," Cruz writes. "A remedy is needed that will restore health to the sick man in our constitutional system. Rendering the justices directly accountable to the people would provide such a remedy."
Under Cruz's proposed amendment, justices would have to be approved by a majority of American voters as well as by the majority of voters in least half of the states. If they failed to reach the required approval rating, they would be removed from office and barred from serving on the Supreme Court in the future. Source
It's a rough week for the bigoted and their representatives.
Also going to be a rough ride for candidates trying to court the part of the base that would rather keep the confederate flag up and ignore the supreme court, while also trying to stay electable in a general where the majority of the country disagrees with them.
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clutz -> it feels to me like that's too far down the "slippery slope" to be an issue in practice, though I see how in principle it could be an issue. It wouldn't be that hard to just say they're taxed at the same rates as all other businesses. There's also a lot less they do that can be taxed, since they don't really sell goods much, and the services provided would end up getting covered under income tax laws rather than sales tax.
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I love how the organist was on it lol.
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Bisutopia19157 Posts
So the TPP passed without any news coverage at all. Are Americans going to be screwed by this deal? I sure wish we knew more about it.
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On June 27 2015 10:19 cLutZ wrote: The more modern society progresses, the more it seems like an income tax is incompatible, or at least at odds with, many of our basic rights/protections enshrined in the Constitution. Sure, but whether that's a defect of the income tax or a defect of those individual liberties is a matter of political opinion.
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On June 27 2015 11:51 BisuDagger wrote: So the TPP passed without any news coverage at all. Are Americans going to be screwed by this deal? I sure wish we knew more about it.
It's not a done deal yet, but it was a loss for American labor for sure. What did pass though means that we will have the text for 60 days before congress can vote to pass it.
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Bisutopia19157 Posts
On June 27 2015 11:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 11:51 BisuDagger wrote: So the TPP passed without any news coverage at all. Are Americans going to be screwed by this deal? I sure wish we knew more about it. It's not a done deal yet, but it was a loss for American labor for sure. What did pass though means that we will have the text for 60 days before congress can vote to pass it. Thanks for the info. I don't understand why this deal is so shady. How come congress couldn't see the deal before hand and why the 60 day crunch? Is it true if companies lose profit due to government regulations then they will be refunded?
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Bisu -> unclear; it is a bit odd to not wait for the terms to come out; but there's also been a lot of irrational and illogical hate and misinformation on the bill. It's not true that they WILL be refunded; they will be able to file a claim to try and get a refund; there's an extensive history from similar trade deals, and the overall refunds rates are quite low (iirc 10%-ish).
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On June 27 2015 06:36 Simberto wrote: So, how are churches in any way relevant to a discussion regarding legal marriage, if churches don't actually have anything to do with legal marriage at all, and are basically a place people have a big and absurdly expensive party at after/before getting legally married?
Because conservatives want to pretend that marriage is a religious thing and that they own it, therefore they can define it.
EDIT: Ted Cruz is such a fucking child. What a waste of a human being.
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On June 27 2015 12:23 zlefin wrote: Bisu -> unclear; it is a bit odd to not wait for the terms to come out; but there's also been a lot of irrational and illogical hate and misinformation on the bill. It's not true that they WILL be refunded; they will be able to file a claim to try and get a refund; there's an extensive history from similar trade deals, and the overall refunds rates are quite low (iirc 10%-ish). How do you know it's misinformation or irrational and illogical hate? You don't know what's in it.
And if you do know, then you've just admitted to breaching national security.
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