• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:43
CEST 19:43
KST 02:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway112v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature2Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!5Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway BW General Discussion Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? How do the new Battle.net ranks translate?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group A BWCL Season 63 Announcement Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 974 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1888

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
YoureFired
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States822 Posts
April 28 2015 04:06 GMT
#37741
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


Let's say that Jimmy always walks through the door in the morning, and Gloria sits by the door every day. Let's just say that Jimmy could use other doors, while Gloria cannot move.

Day 1: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 2: Same deal
Day 3: Same deal
Day 4: Same deal
Day 20: Gloria finally has had it, and confronts Jimmy about him tripping on her. He apologizes profusely and says that he will do everything he can to stop it in the future.
Day 21: Jimmy walks through the door and apologizes again. Gloria asks why he cannot take another door, and Jimmy says that the other one is a two minute walk from his car; it's inconvenient. However, he really is sorry about tripping on her!
Day 22: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 23: Same deal
Day 24: Same deal
Day 100: Gloria finally has it and punches Jimmy in the face. Everyone around her comments how violent she is, and how she can barely control her temper, and how with actions like that, it's no wonder Jimmy accidentally tripped on her.

Blaming Black people for their own oppression is color-blind racist. It tries to say we live in an even world, where Jimmy is just trying to walk through the door on Day 100; it ignores the 99 days before when he refused to change his behavior even when it negatively effected Gloria.

Rough analogy, hoping it gets the point across somewhat.
ted cruz is the zodiac killer
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 04:21:16
April 28 2015 04:11 GMT
#37742
I'm really annoyed at most of the things I read all over the internet right now about the "Baltimore Riots". Now before I start I'm not saying that the rioting doesn't deserve to be talk about, it's definitely part of the whole ordeal and it deserves some attention. However, it's all we hear about. It's all everybody talks about. The national guard is there because of the riots. That is what is happening.

I think it's pretty fucking sad that we live in a culture where damn near everybody thinks they're cool because they know that the mass media have become masters in swaying the popular opinion, they show us parts of the story, they go for sensationalism before veracity and anything else. And yet the people consistently show that they themselves are consumers of this trend, they themselves reward it, and fuck in some cases, they themselves participate in it. Go on Imgur and see those fucking clowns talking about the Baltimore riots, everyone is outraged except the few oddball comments that refer to the social and political crisis that those riots emerged from. Those are few and far between. They want their fucking upvotes those damn vultures. It doesn't take too long to realize that mass medias are the way they are for a good reason, it's not just that they want ad revenue and they need numbers, but it's because they're a mirror of the society they sell to.

I recognize that all this is fairly elementary, but fuck is it frustrating. It's frustrating that this stupid idiot would wear a tshirt that says "black power" during the riot and the looting of a convenience store, undermining the entire movement. It's frustrating that people collectively are so god damn attached to their bullshit meaningless news that the big picture is lost on them.

What is happening in Baltimore, according to almost everyone? Riots and looting, and the national guard is involved in trying to keep the peace. Why? One black kid was killed by police again. And world war one started because Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. Spoonfeed those plebs that shit they won't know the god damn difference.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
April 28 2015 04:13 GMT
#37743
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 04:19:42
April 28 2015 04:16 GMT
#37744
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


It's not seeing the rioting as negative that makes the actions racist, it's spending so much more time and effort posting/reporting on the rioting rather than the systemic injustice that makes the actions racist.


As an example fox news had live shots on the street and they kept telling them to pan away from the people praying and onto the people taking stuff out of stores. They say things like "where are the black leaders" and then when they try to show/tell them what they are doing and where they are, they literally ignore them and go back to their bullshit narrative.

At one point they asked someone "Why are you so angry" to which he replied "I am not angry..." to which right after he finished talking the 'reporter' said "Everyone is angry"
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 28 2015 04:19 GMT
#37745
On April 28 2015 13:06 YoureFired wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


Let's say that Jimmy always walks through the door in the morning, and Gloria sits by the door every day. Let's just say that Jimmy could use other doors, while Gloria cannot move.

Day 1: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 2: Same deal
Day 3: Same deal
Day 4: Same deal
Day 20: Gloria finally has had it, and confronts Jimmy about him tripping on her. He apologizes profusely and says that he will do everything he can to stop it in the future.
Day 21: Jimmy walks through the door and apologizes again. Gloria asks why he cannot take another door, and Jimmy says that the other one is a two minute walk from his car; it's inconvenient. However, he really is sorry about tripping on her!
Day 22: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 23: Same deal
Day 24: Same deal
Day 100: Gloria finally has it and punches Jimmy in the face. Everyone around her comments how violent she is, and how she can barely control her temper, and how with actions like that, it's no wonder Jimmy accidentally tripped on her.

Blaming Black people for their own oppression is color-blind racist. It tries to say we live in an even world, where Jimmy is just trying to walk through the door on Day 100; it ignores the 99 days before when he refused to change his behavior even when it negatively effected Gloria.

Rough analogy, hoping it gets the point across somewhat.


The problem with the analogy is that the purpose of tripping over Gloria is not to deter her from punching him (or anyone). The reason that anti-police riots are so damaging to the message is that this specific action is the exact kind of action that people want police to deter. It undermines the point of the protest to the core because the message is "police are treating us unfairly" but then the violence indicates that no, they are treating you fairly because you cannot be trusted to act in accordance with the law.

That is why, in these contexts, the riot consumes the context, because by rioting you are committing an action that indicates that the police were correct in treating you differently from the start.
Freeeeeeedom
YoureFired
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States822 Posts
April 28 2015 04:20 GMT
#37746
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.
ted cruz is the zodiac killer
YoureFired
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States822 Posts
April 28 2015 04:22 GMT
#37747
On April 28 2015 13:19 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:06 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


Let's say that Jimmy always walks through the door in the morning, and Gloria sits by the door every day. Let's just say that Jimmy could use other doors, while Gloria cannot move.

Day 1: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 2: Same deal
Day 3: Same deal
Day 4: Same deal
Day 20: Gloria finally has had it, and confronts Jimmy about him tripping on her. He apologizes profusely and says that he will do everything he can to stop it in the future.
Day 21: Jimmy walks through the door and apologizes again. Gloria asks why he cannot take another door, and Jimmy says that the other one is a two minute walk from his car; it's inconvenient. However, he really is sorry about tripping on her!
Day 22: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 23: Same deal
Day 24: Same deal
Day 100: Gloria finally has it and punches Jimmy in the face. Everyone around her comments how violent she is, and how she can barely control her temper, and how with actions like that, it's no wonder Jimmy accidentally tripped on her.

Blaming Black people for their own oppression is color-blind racist. It tries to say we live in an even world, where Jimmy is just trying to walk through the door on Day 100; it ignores the 99 days before when he refused to change his behavior even when it negatively effected Gloria.

Rough analogy, hoping it gets the point across somewhat.


The problem with the analogy is that the purpose of tripping over Gloria is not to deter her from punching him (or anyone). The reason that anti-police riots are so damaging to the message is that this specific action is the exact kind of action that people want police to deter. It undermines the point of the protest to the core because the message is "police are treating us unfairly" but then the violence indicates that no, they are treating you fairly because you cannot be trusted to act in accordance with the law.

That is why, in these contexts, the riot consumes the context, because by rioting you are committing an action that indicates that the police were correct in treating you differently from the start.


This is a fair point, but I would argue that people seek the justification for Black people's oppression (the riots) rather than critically examining the situation. IE the protests are going fine in most instances, but as soon as a riot starts the media is on it like a firestorm.
ted cruz is the zodiac killer
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7312 Posts
April 28 2015 04:23 GMT
#37748
On April 28 2015 13:20 YoureFired wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.


Why can't both be true though? Why can't rioting be seen as detrimental to Black rights as well as the underlying systematic racism?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting and you mean that its not that they can't both be true but that its shitty that they're reporting on the one without the context of the other?
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
April 28 2015 04:28 GMT
#37749
On April 28 2015 13:23 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:20 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.


Why can't both be true though? Why can't rioting be seen as detrimental to Black rights as well as the underlying systematic racism?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting and you mean that its not that they can't both be true but that its shitty that they're reporting on the one without the context of the other?



Has anyone here or elsewhere of any substance ever suggested that riots aren't detrimental? I just don't get where stuff like that comes from.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 04:30:14
April 28 2015 04:28 GMT
#37750
On April 28 2015 13:23 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:20 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.


Why can't both be true though? Why can't rioting be seen as detrimental to Black rights as well as the underlying systematic racism?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting and you mean that its not that they can't both be true but that its shitty that they're reporting on the one without the context of the other?

Well he does say it's about the narrative. There are people who don't give a flying fuck about equality or black rights but they'll barge in and say "riots are hurting black rights", once again not because they give a fuck about black rights, but because the only time they're concerned about the issue at all is when there's rioting. Now that is not okay!

But the 300-some other days of the year are fine. You'll never hear them being concerned about inequality.

So while it's fine to speak of the riots as a setback for black rights in terms of strategy and political gains in the public arena, it's also a cheesy way to score points as a dick and a pundit who doesn't actually care.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
YoureFired
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States822 Posts
April 28 2015 04:28 GMT
#37751
On April 28 2015 13:23 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:20 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.


Why can't both be true though? Why can't rioting be seen as detrimental to Black rights as well as the underlying systematic racism?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting and you mean that its not that they can't both be true but that its shitty that they're reporting on the one without the context of the other?


They're both true! However, as GH said, the media (esp FOX but also CNN) focus on the riots rather than anything about the racism and institutional/structural discrimination that caused them.
ted cruz is the zodiac killer
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
April 28 2015 04:30 GMT
#37752
On April 28 2015 13:22 YoureFired wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:19 cLutZ wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:06 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


Let's say that Jimmy always walks through the door in the morning, and Gloria sits by the door every day. Let's just say that Jimmy could use other doors, while Gloria cannot move.

Day 1: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 2: Same deal
Day 3: Same deal
Day 4: Same deal
Day 20: Gloria finally has had it, and confronts Jimmy about him tripping on her. He apologizes profusely and says that he will do everything he can to stop it in the future.
Day 21: Jimmy walks through the door and apologizes again. Gloria asks why he cannot take another door, and Jimmy says that the other one is a two minute walk from his car; it's inconvenient. However, he really is sorry about tripping on her!
Day 22: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 23: Same deal
Day 24: Same deal
Day 100: Gloria finally has it and punches Jimmy in the face. Everyone around her comments how violent she is, and how she can barely control her temper, and how with actions like that, it's no wonder Jimmy accidentally tripped on her.

Blaming Black people for their own oppression is color-blind racist. It tries to say we live in an even world, where Jimmy is just trying to walk through the door on Day 100; it ignores the 99 days before when he refused to change his behavior even when it negatively effected Gloria.

Rough analogy, hoping it gets the point across somewhat.


The problem with the analogy is that the purpose of tripping over Gloria is not to deter her from punching him (or anyone). The reason that anti-police riots are so damaging to the message is that this specific action is the exact kind of action that people want police to deter. It undermines the point of the protest to the core because the message is "police are treating us unfairly" but then the violence indicates that no, they are treating you fairly because you cannot be trusted to act in accordance with the law.

That is why, in these contexts, the riot consumes the context, because by rioting you are committing an action that indicates that the police were correct in treating you differently from the start.


This is a fair point, but I would argue that people seek the justification for Black people's oppression (the riots) rather than critically examining the situation. IE the protests are going fine in most instances, but as soon as a riot starts the media is on it like a firestorm.

Rioting hurts the political message, no blacks themselves
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 28 2015 04:32 GMT
#37753
If it bleeds it leads; that's a media truism that's quite old.
Media exists in part to make money, so of course it's going to focus on things that people will watch. A lot fewer people are interested in long policy debates and complicated analysis. Do you watch c-span?
To my eye, the media looks at both issues, though of course relatively speaking a lot of attention is paid to the riot right now, of course that's because it's happening right now. The question will be what's the mix of news coverage in a week, a month, a year.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
April 28 2015 04:33 GMT
#37754
On April 28 2015 13:30 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:22 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:19 cLutZ wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:06 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


Let's say that Jimmy always walks through the door in the morning, and Gloria sits by the door every day. Let's just say that Jimmy could use other doors, while Gloria cannot move.

Day 1: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 2: Same deal
Day 3: Same deal
Day 4: Same deal
Day 20: Gloria finally has had it, and confronts Jimmy about him tripping on her. He apologizes profusely and says that he will do everything he can to stop it in the future.
Day 21: Jimmy walks through the door and apologizes again. Gloria asks why he cannot take another door, and Jimmy says that the other one is a two minute walk from his car; it's inconvenient. However, he really is sorry about tripping on her!
Day 22: Jimmy accidentally trips over Gloria and apologizes
Day 23: Same deal
Day 24: Same deal
Day 100: Gloria finally has it and punches Jimmy in the face. Everyone around her comments how violent she is, and how she can barely control her temper, and how with actions like that, it's no wonder Jimmy accidentally tripped on her.

Blaming Black people for their own oppression is color-blind racist. It tries to say we live in an even world, where Jimmy is just trying to walk through the door on Day 100; it ignores the 99 days before when he refused to change his behavior even when it negatively effected Gloria.

Rough analogy, hoping it gets the point across somewhat.


The problem with the analogy is that the purpose of tripping over Gloria is not to deter her from punching him (or anyone). The reason that anti-police riots are so damaging to the message is that this specific action is the exact kind of action that people want police to deter. It undermines the point of the protest to the core because the message is "police are treating us unfairly" but then the violence indicates that no, they are treating you fairly because you cannot be trusted to act in accordance with the law.

That is why, in these contexts, the riot consumes the context, because by rioting you are committing an action that indicates that the police were correct in treating you differently from the start.


This is a fair point, but I would argue that people seek the justification for Black people's oppression (the riots) rather than critically examining the situation. IE the protests are going fine in most instances, but as soon as a riot starts the media is on it like a firestorm.

Rioting hurts the political message, no blacks themselves

Undermining a political message which has the potential to make the lives of black people better in the US does hurt the blacks themselves fairly directly.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
April 28 2015 04:33 GMT
#37755
On April 28 2015 13:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:04 heliusx wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

Yeah, I figured as much. Honestly I don't think you can.


I can't explain it in a way that someone like you would accept no. I don't think anyone could. It's certainly not because you are right though.

There's no need to throw insults around, after all you can't even explain your position.
dude bro.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
April 28 2015 04:33 GMT
#37756
I do not believe rioting will change anything in a capitalist system unless protesters are reserve owners, strong foundations, army, lobbies and lodges. Rest are a flash in the pan.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 04:37:26
April 28 2015 04:35 GMT
#37757
On April 28 2015 13:33 heliusx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:04 heliusx wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

Yeah, I figured as much. Honestly I don't think you can.


I can't explain it in a way that someone like you would accept no. I don't think anyone could. It's certainly not because you are right though.

There's no need to throw insults around, after all you can't even explain your position.


Not insulting you. I'm just saying I can't explain it to you in a way you would accept. Fired tried, tell me why that explanation isn't satisfactory to you?

On April 28 2015 13:32 zlefin wrote:
If it bleeds it leads; that's a media truism that's quite old.
Media exists in part to make money, so of course it's going to focus on things that people will watch. A lot fewer people are interested in long policy debates and complicated analysis. Do you watch c-span?
To my eye, the media looks at both issues, though of course relatively speaking a lot of attention is paid to the riot right now, of course that's because it's happening right now. The question will be what's the mix of news coverage in a week, a month, a year.


I guess people could accept that explanation if they want but that truism isn't much of an explanation for how/what people choose to post about in relation to issues like this.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 28 2015 04:38 GMT
#37758
On April 28 2015 13:28 YoureFired wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:23 Zambrah wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:20 YoureFired wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:13 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 28 2015 12:51 heliusx wrote:
Why is it racist? Eli5. Go ahead GH.


I don't really see a reason, the people who agree don't need one, and those that disagree won't be convinced otherwise with some eli5 explanation.

I mean like I'm mostly on your side on this issue, but I don't see how seeing the rioting as a negative for their message makes me racist.


Having the view that rioting makes Black political movements look bad isn't necessarily racist (sorry if I made it seem broader; I'm fired up so PM me if you ever have a question).

However, pushing the narrative that "riots hurt Black rights" rather than "racism hurts Black rights", which is what xDaunt, the media and colorblind advocates do, is racist. It focuses on the reaction to oppression rather than the oppression itself.


Why can't both be true though? Why can't rioting be seen as detrimental to Black rights as well as the underlying systematic racism?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting and you mean that its not that they can't both be true but that its shitty that they're reporting on the one without the context of the other?


They're both true! However, as GH said, the media (esp FOX but also CNN) focus on the riots rather than anything about the racism and institutional/structural discrimination that caused them.


Of course people focus on riots. Its not just American media, the frontpage of le monde http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2015/04/27/baltimore-nouveaux-affrontements-apres-les-funerailles-d-un-jeune-noir_4623749_3222.html has coverage of the Baltimore riots without an in depth evaluation of the civil rights problems.

I don't really take seriously a media criticism of that sort.
Freeeeeeedom
always_winter
Profile Joined February 2015
United States195 Posts
April 28 2015 04:41 GMT
#37759
The only thing rioting does is reinforce cultural stereotypes and minimize the movement at large. It's tragic, really. To see people wearing "No Justice, No Peace" shirts in the middle of a civil rights assembly, a mere fifty years after one of our nation's greatest heroes literally wrote the book on how to protest, in which nonviolence is paramount.

I wish I had something more profound to say, but I don't. I'm really dissatisfied with the state of my country, and I need to stop trying to express myself after midnight because I struggle to find the right words. I'll let someone else do it for me:

I agree with your point that the principle of peaceful, non-violent protest and the observance of the rule of law is of utmost importance in any society. MLK, Gandhi, Mandela and all great opposition leaders throughout history have always preached this precept. Further, it is critical that in any democracy, investigation must be completed and due process must be honored before any government or police members are judged responsible.

That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night’s property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the U.S. to third-world dictatorships like China and others, plunged tens of millions of good, hard-working Americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American’s civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.

The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the Bill of Rights by government pay the true price, and ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importances of any kids’ game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards. We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the U.S., and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don’t have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights, and this makes inconvenience at a ballgame irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans.


source
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 04:43:05
April 28 2015 04:42 GMT
#37760
My local media in Quebec also is focused on the riots. Same with CBC. The Journal de Montréal is mostly concerned about a baseball game being cancelled...?

Anyway fuck this I'm going to sleep and hopefully these collective cockadoodles blow over.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Prev 1 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti's All Random #4
RotterdaM611
Liquipedia
Wardi Open
15:00
Mondays #48
WardiTV1075
IndyStarCraft 227
BRAT_OK 176
SteadfastSC142
Rex138
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 611
Reynor 308
IndyStarCraft 227
BRAT_OK 176
Rex 141
SteadfastSC 136
ProTech87
MindelVK 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40688
Calm 5080
EffOrt 1255
Sea 1102
Horang2 1040
Shuttle 518
firebathero 269
ggaemo 245
Hyuk 137
Soulkey 107
[ Show more ]
Mong 90
Mind 68
Dewaltoss 54
PianO 51
Terrorterran 23
Rock 17
NaDa 17
soO 16
Free 10
HiyA 10
Yoon 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7908
qojqva3992
Counter-Strike
fl0m914
kRYSTAL_78
Other Games
FrodaN1529
ceh91452
Lowko313
ArmadaUGS245
KnowMe189
Hui .139
C9.Mang075
Trikslyr48
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 18
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV665
League of Legends
• Nemesis2204
• Jankos1364
• TFBlade889
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur261
Other Games
• imaqtpie873
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 17m
Replay Cast
16h 17m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 17m
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
17h 17m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 17h
Online Event
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.