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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:04 YoureFired wrote:
"And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years." -Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Violence and riots are negative and destructive, yes, but do not EVER equate the days of rioting with the CENTURIES of discrimination, oppression, dehumanization and exploitation that Black Americans (and other marginalized groups) have experienced.
If you focus on the riots and not on the injustice, you are being racist. The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
The point about the drug war and lack of a nuclear family hurting the black community is quite true (as well as the mass genocide via abortion of the black community which no one talks about). However, black people have been afforded the same opportunities as others for quite a while now. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems.
The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order.
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On April 28 2015 14:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 13:44 always_winter wrote:
Apologies for the double post, but from what I've seen out of Green Horizons lately he's not exactly the screaming liberal I once pegged him as, and I don't think he's being in insulting nor do I think he's being superfluous. Honestly, if I was a black American I'd probably be screaming at the top of my fucking lungs right now. I'm not one to patronize but I do recall singling him out before and I guess I'll consider this my retraction. I probably own more and shoot my guns more often than most of the conservatives here, so that right there disqualifies me from being a typical raging liberal ;P Politically (other than social issues) I'm closer to moderate Republicans than I am screaming liberals.
fun post : i call myself a liberal too and i am ready.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:04 YoureFired wrote:
"And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years." -Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Violence and riots are negative and destructive, yes, but do not EVER equate the days of rioting with the CENTURIES of discrimination, oppression, dehumanization and exploitation that Black Americans (and other marginalized groups) have experienced.
If you focus on the riots and not on the injustice, you are being racist. The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order.
What the actual fuck...? Yeah I'm done before I go off on stupid posts.
On April 28 2015 14:16 lastpuritan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 13:44 always_winter wrote:
Apologies for the double post, but from what I've seen out of Green Horizons lately he's not exactly the screaming liberal I once pegged him as, and I don't think he's being in insulting nor do I think he's being superfluous. Honestly, if I was a black American I'd probably be screaming at the top of my fucking lungs right now. I'm not one to patronize but I do recall singling him out before and I guess I'll consider this my retraction. I probably own more and shoot my guns more often than most of the conservatives here, so that right there disqualifies me from being a typical raging liberal ;P Politically (other than social issues) I'm closer to moderate Republicans than I am screaming liberals. fun post : i call myself a liberal too and i am ready. + Show Spoiler +
I don't have any pictures of me holding guns and I certainly wouldn't post it on the internet. It would inevitably be the main picture they used on Fox News if I was the unlucky one to get killed by the police. 
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On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:04 YoureFired wrote:
"And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years." -Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Violence and riots are negative and destructive, yes, but do not EVER equate the days of rioting with the CENTURIES of discrimination, oppression, dehumanization and exploitation that Black Americans (and other marginalized groups) have experienced.
If you focus on the riots and not on the injustice, you are being racist. The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. The point about the drug war and lack of a nuclear family hurting the black community is quite true (as well as the mass genocide via abortion of the black community which no one talks about). However, black people have been afforded the same opportunities as others for quite a while now. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order.
It hasn't been equal. It's been equal in the sense that there is SOME political equality but the economic legacy of slavery is still very strong. Also, Asian-Americans being toted as the "counter" to Black inferiority is also problematic:
http://www.education.com/reference/article/unraveling-minority-myth-asian-students/
Also:
RACISM IS NOT JUST SAYING THE N-WORD
The reality of modern racism is almost exactly the opposite: it's the institutional marginalisation of groups performed with the utmost discretion and minimum of fuss by well-mannered and often well-intentioned people working in deeply flawed systems. According to a recent US department of education report, black preschoolers (mostly four-year-olds) are four times more likely to be suspended more than once than their white classmates. According to a 2013 report by Release, a UK group focusing on drugs and drug laws, black people in England and Wales are far less likely to use drugs than white people but six times more likely to be stopped and searched for possession of them. In both countries black people are far more likely to be convicted, and to get stiffer sentences and longer jail time.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/racism-more-than-old-white-men-using-n-word
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Yourefired -> you're WAAY too willing to accuse people of racism. travis statement is not explicitly racist, nor implicitly racist. At any rate, accusing people of racism like that on thin evidence really makes you look bad, also might be against site rules. If you have a problem with their post, it's better to report it.
I'm not sure the riots are about rebellion against injustice at all. The protestors are about that, sure. But there may not be much overlap between the protestors and the rioters. The rioters could just be criminal opportunists who sensed an opening to loot and destroy and took advantage of it.
I think you do a disservice by linking the protestors to the rioters so tightly.
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On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives.
How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying.
Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious.
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On April 28 2015 14:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order. What the actual fuck...? Yeah I'm done before I go off on stupid posts.
If you think robbing a Russia Today reporter for instance is the result of Government oppression I have a bridge in Manhattan to sell you. There is an institutional problem that needs to be addressed, but it isn't the only thing that is oppressing their communities. The exaltation of thuggish behavior and crime is a problem. Don't take it from me, take it from MLK's niece.
UPDATE: 4:30 PM: The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. blasted Mayor Rawlings-Blake for “inviting violence” into Baltimore in a letter obtained by Breitbart News. Your invitation to “give space for those who want to destroy” is unbelievable. This interpretation of rights to free speech is dangerous Ma’am. In 1963, my father Rev. AD King, after the firebombing of our home in Birmingham, Alabama, urged hostile protestors to abandon violence and turn to God in prayer instead. Thank God they listened to him, and the even greater voice of his brother, my Uncle MLK, during those turbulent days. Now, you are inviting violence to your city? Who, Ma’am, will incur the moral and economic costs of picking up the pieces? The innocent taxpayers? We at www.restorethedream2015.com are very concerned. Ma’am, people are not entitled to pillage and destroy. That is just plain wrong. Our affiliates on the ground in Baltimore are willing to help quell the violent tide. And make no mistake about it; something must be done to save our cities. How did we get here? Where do we go now? Think about this: Baltimore 1965 vs. Baltimore 2015, compare and contrast: 1. Money spent on public schools then vs. now. 2. Amount spent on social welfare payments then vs. now. 3. The size of Government Bureaucracy then vs. now. 4. The number of black elected officials then vs. now. 5. Number of black children born in Baltimore to an intact nuclear family. 6. Number of Black lives MIA by abortion and incarceration. If you look at all six questions/comparisons what you will see is the only statistics to have decreased (1965 to 2015) is the number of black children born in intact nuclear families. Something is wrong. We must stop the killing and advance the healing now!
So, please tell me what is 'so wrong'. These problems are not manifest in other peoples who faced discrimination and racism like the blacks have. We have to address both institutional and cultural problems. The rioters are marginalizing the message of the protestors and condoning their behavior does you no favors in currying public support. Next you're going to tell me I'm just a racist blah blah blah. Shtick gets old as hell.
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On April 28 2015 14:22 zlefin wrote:
Yourefired -> you're WAAY too willing to accuse people of racism. travis statement is not explicitly racist, nor implicitly racist. At any rate, accusing people of racism like that on thin evidence really makes you look bad, also might be against site rules. If you have a problem with their post, it's better to report it.
I'm not sure the riots are about rebellion against injustice at all. The protestors are about that, sure. But there may not be much overlap between the protestors and the rioters. The rioters could just be criminal opportunists who sensed an opening to loot and destroy and took advantage of it.
I think you do a disservice by linking the protestors to the rioters so tightly.
When I say that somebody is saying something racist (maybe I shouldn't use that word? depressing that calling people that is worse than actually being it but w/e) I am not saying they said the n-word, or a racial epithet. I mean that they are speaking in a way that is conducive to the system of racism. See my previous post for what that racism is.
He said that Black families are to blame for their own problems. That is racist. It asserts that the whole history of oppression and marginalization is less to blame than the immediate actions of people now. You're ignoring the whole history of slavery and Jim Crow and discrimination that only explicitly ended in 1960s and unofficially has continued to the modern day.
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On April 28 2015 14:22 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:
[quote]
So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over.
I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives. How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying. Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious.
The tone of your post says it all.
right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist
On April 28 2015 14:24 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:
[quote]
So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over.
I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order. What the actual fuck...? Yeah I'm done before I go off on stupid posts. If you think robbing a Russia Today reporter for instance is the result of Government oppression I have a bridge in Manhattan to sell you. There is an institutional problem that needs to be addressed, but it isn't the only thing that is oppressing their communities. The exaltation of thuggish behavior and crime is a problem. Don't take it from me, take it from MLK's niece. Show nested quote + UPDATE: 4:30 PM: The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. blasted Mayor Rawlings-Blake for “inviting violence” into Baltimore in a letter obtained by Breitbart News. Your invitation to “give space for those who want to destroy” is unbelievable. This interpretation of rights to free speech is dangerous Ma’am. In 1963, my father Rev. AD King, after the firebombing of our home in Birmingham, Alabama, urged hostile protestors to abandon violence and turn to God in prayer instead. Thank God they listened to him, and the even greater voice of his brother, my Uncle MLK, during those turbulent days. Now, you are inviting violence to your city? Who, Ma’am, will incur the moral and economic costs of picking up the pieces? The innocent taxpayers? We at www.restorethedream2015.com are very concerned. Ma’am, people are not entitled to pillage and destroy. That is just plain wrong. Our affiliates on the ground in Baltimore are willing to help quell the violent tide. And make no mistake about it; something must be done to save our cities. How did we get here? Where do we go now? Think about this: Baltimore 1965 vs. Baltimore 2015, compare and contrast: 1. Money spent on public schools then vs. now. 2. Amount spent on social welfare payments then vs. now. 3. The size of Government Bureaucracy then vs. now. 4. The number of black elected officials then vs. now. 5. Number of black children born in Baltimore to an intact nuclear family. 6. Number of Black lives MIA by abortion and incarceration. If you look at all six questions/comparisons what you will see is the only statistics to have decreased (1965 to 2015) is the number of black children born in intact nuclear families. Something is wrong. We must stop the killing and advance the healing now! So, please tell me what is 'so wrong'. These problems are not manifest in other peoples who faced discrimination and racism like the blacks have. We have to address both institutional and cultural problems. The rioters are marginalizing the message of the protestors and condoning their behavior does you no favors in currying public support. Next you're going to tell me I'm just a racist blah blah blah. Shtick gets old as hell.
I really should stop but seriously your posts are delusional. Where have I condoned the rioting? I haven't called anyone racist (even if some people really deserve the label).
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On April 28 2015 14:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:22 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives. How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying. Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious. The tone of your post says it all. Show nested quote +right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist
Please explain what you mean by that because I don't see the problem with what I said - and the tone that you interpret may not necessarily be the tone I intended (which really was no tone at all it was supposed to be as to the point as possible).
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yourefired -> You're really misreading things if you think that's what he said, at least in the way you're implying what you think he meant by what he said.
You should calm down, take a breath, and back off for a night.
Also, you said explicitly racist; note the word explicitly. And again you say things like "depressing that calling people that is worse than actually being it but w/e" that are ENTIRELY unwarranted from the discussion at hand, as well as rude.
I must urge you to take a day and calm down, it'll be easier to see clearly after a good rest and some time.
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On to other business, President Obama does an interview with the WSJ on free trade:
President Barack Obama, facing a bitter struggle within his own party on trade policy, warned that China would step into the economic vacuum the U.S. would create if it fails to complete and enact a free-trade deal with Asia.
“If we don’t write the rules, China will write the rules out in that region,” Mr. Obama said in an interview Monday with The Wall Street Journal. “We will be shut out—American businesses and American agriculture. That will mean a loss of U.S. jobs.”
Mr. Obama also warned of rising anti-globalization sentiment in Washington, reflected in Democratic opposition to the trade agreement, Republican efforts to kill the Export-Import Bank and congressional unwillingness to approve new rules for operation of the International Monetary Fund.
“What we can’t do, though, is withdraw,” Mr. Obama said, adding: “There has been a confluence of anti-global engagement from both elements of the right and elements of the left that I think [is] a big mistake.”
Pretty interesting to explicitly use China as a way to push the TPP, since the administration has previously insisted it is not a measure to isolate China.
And interesting to see Democratic opposition to fast-track authority for the TPP:
Mr. Obama and his negotiators are working to finish the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade deal among 12 Pacific nations that has come to be known as TPP, while also fighting to win “fast track” negotiating authority from Congress to expedite approval of the deal later this year. The trade agreement will be a topic of conversation between Mr. Obama and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is scheduled to visit the White House this week.
The Senate Finance Committee easily passed the fast-track bill last week with strong bipartisan support. But in the House, the Ways and Means Committee passed the measure with the support of only two Democrats.
That House vote underscored the depth of opposition among Democrats, particularly on the party’s left, where both Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Richard Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO, have been beating the drum against the deal.
Critics on the left, particularly those in the labor movement, are opposing TPP because they believe free-trade agreements have caused an outflow of manufacturing jobs from the U.S. to other nations, and say competition from lower-wage countries produced by such agreements has contributed to stagnant wages and higher income inequality in the U.S.
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On April 28 2015 14:21 YoureFired wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. The point about the drug war and lack of a nuclear family hurting the black community is quite true (as well as the mass genocide via abortion of the black community which no one talks about). However, black people have been afforded the same opportunities as others for quite a while now. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order. It hasn't been equal. It's been equal in the sense that there is SOME political equality but the economic legacy of slavery is still very strong. Also, Asian-Americans being toted as the "counter" to Black inferiority is also problematic: http://www.education.com/reference/article/unraveling-minority-myth-asian-students/Also: RACISM IS NOT JUST SAYING THE N-WORD Show nested quote + The reality of modern racism is almost exactly the opposite: it's the institutional marginalisation of groups performed with the utmost discretion and minimum of fuss by well-mannered and often well-intentioned people working in deeply flawed systems. According to a recent US department of education report, black preschoolers (mostly four-year-olds) are four times more likely to be suspended more than once than their white classmates. According to a 2013 report by Release, a UK group focusing on drugs and drug laws, black people in England and Wales are far less likely to use drugs than white people but six times more likely to be stopped and searched for possession of them. In both countries black people are far more likely to be convicted, and to get stiffer sentences and longer jail time. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/racism-more-than-old-white-men-using-n-word
Really? Slavery hasn't been legal in Maryland since what 1840s? We're not talking about Jim Crow being 60 years removed here. Your post also has nothing to do with the travis' post that you called him a racist for. Saying the black community needs to address internal issues as well as us trying to come together to address institutional problems is not racist in the slightest unlike you, who calls everything not in accordance with your narrow vision racist. For those who like to tout nuance of argumentation I see none here. Just petty ad hominems.
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On April 28 2015 14:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:14 Wegandi wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:17 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:09 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 12:08 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
The attitude expressed here is precisely why so many Americans are not interested in engaging all of the condescending masturacebators out there. So what should we do, just ignore the problem? I call shit shit when I see it, I don't try to gloss it over. I also love how conservatives conflate desire for social justice with self-gratification. Is it not enough to be motivated by desires for equality and not being an asshole to people? It's not hard to do with the rampant hypocrisy from the left on so many social justice issues. Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up. It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave. Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that. It's not like they faced worse discrimination and racism than Asian peoples and the Asian community is a million times more productive. There is a grain of truth to what travis said, and it is something a lot of black community leaders have been saying for a long time. There is a huge cultural problem that needs to be addressed as well. That is not being racist - and shouting racist doesn't advance any solutions especially when it is being used so cavalierly. The KKK are racists. The New Black Panthers are racist. Saying that the black community needs to address some cultural issues that are contributing to the position they're in is certainly not, otherwise you'd be painting a ton of black leaders as self-hating racists (or you going to call them uncle toms?). There should be an effort to address both of these problems. The thing about this is you don't see this type of stuff in Atlanta, Charleston, Mobile, etc. For all the 'racist' shouting at us Southerner(s) it seems like you Northerner(s) need to get your own houses in order. What the actual fuck...? Yeah I'm done before I go off on stupid posts. Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:16 lastpuritan wrote:On April 28 2015 14:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 13:44 always_winter wrote:
Apologies for the double post, but from what I've seen out of Green Horizons lately he's not exactly the screaming liberal I once pegged him as, and I don't think he's being in insulting nor do I think he's being superfluous. Honestly, if I was a black American I'd probably be screaming at the top of my fucking lungs right now. I'm not one to patronize but I do recall singling him out before and I guess I'll consider this my retraction. I probably own more and shoot my guns more often than most of the conservatives here, so that right there disqualifies me from being a typical raging liberal ;P Politically (other than social issues) I'm closer to moderate Republicans than I am screaming liberals. fun post : i call myself a liberal too and i am ready. + Show Spoiler + I don't have any pictures of me holding guns and I certainly wouldn't post it on the internet. It would inevitably be the main picture they used on Fox News if I was the unlucky one to get killed by the police.
then what about this, me peacefully hanging in the streets of phoenix, without gunz. 
+ Show Spoiler +
edit: hey, im trying to ease the tension in this topic. but you guys are very zealous to attack each other.
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On April 28 2015 14:29 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:22 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:On April 28 2015 12:20 YoureFired wrote:
[quote]
Yes, let's make general statements to discredit pointed questions about race to divert the topic. Sounds like Color-Blind America has trained you well. If you want to actually engage in real talking points let's do it but I'm not down for this non-conversation. ....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives. How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying. Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious. The tone of your post says it all. right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Please explain what you mean by that because I don't see the problem with what I said - and the tone that you interpret may not necessarily be the tone I intended (which really was no tone at all it was supposed to be as to the point as possible).
If you don't even have a clue what it is I can't help you in a couple short posts and I don't have the patience or desire to walk you through an entire course on oppression and privilege.
EDIT: In good faith, if you actually want to understand, try answering why Freddie Gray was arrested in the first place and why/how his neck was broken?
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I am really not upset at any individuals in here, just at ideologies that further racial divide. People think that preference is an appropriate response to oppression when it's just another form of oppression, and that pisses me off.
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So apparently the men in the suits earlier in the day were members of the Nation of Islam protecting houses etc.
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On April 28 2015 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:29 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:22 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 12:43 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
....yet you are more than happy to break out the big "everyone who does X is a racist" paint brush. You're right. This isn't the making of a good conversation. Thanks for proving my point about hypocrisy, though. Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true. If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue. LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives. How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying. Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious. The tone of your post says it all. right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Please explain what you mean by that because I don't see the problem with what I said - and the tone that you interpret may not necessarily be the tone I intended (which really was no tone at all it was supposed to be as to the point as possible). If you don't even have a clue what it is I can't help you in a couple short posts and I don't have the patience or desire to walk you through an entire course on oppression and privilege.
Well I suspect that the actual truth is that you are afraid that if you try to explain what you meant my reply will make you look silly. Otherwise I invite you to do so because you called me out but aren't willing to follow through.
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On April 28 2015 14:38 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 14:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:29 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:22 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 28 2015 14:11 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 13:58 YoureFired wrote:On April 28 2015 13:51 travis wrote:On April 28 2015 12:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Except that's not what was said. What was said is that you are being racist, it's not a comment on who one is but on their actions. It's true.
If one is focusing on the riots and not the injustice preceding them one is being racist and it's a pretty cut and dry issue.
LOL right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Also: if you think the riots are in response to oppression rather than a result of lackluster upbringing, then you haven't been paying attention. the ones who are rioting clearly don't give a shit about freddie gray You should be an informed citizen and I support you staying safe! That doesn't mean I am not critical of the media's general sensationalism of the event, and its relatively one-dimensional coverage. And to your second point: whooooaaaa there. That is explicitly racist. What do you think makes their upbringings so shitty? lots of stuff. I think it would be ignorant to simply label it as "oppression", but if you disagree than that's your opinion.
Its tough to grow up when your friends get into gangs and drugs when they're in middle school and your dad is locked up.
okay
It also sucks when your family has no cumulative wealth because you were stolen from your homeland and forced to work as a slave.
Umm, they weren't slaves dude, their ancestors were. Please join us in reality. I live in reality, it's a place where I take responsibility for my own life, just like my parents did.
Basically, please consider that there are people who have different life experiences than you; life is much tougher (in general; there are exceptions like with everything) for Black people, and its not their fault for that.
ok that's great except for that what I said was that their behavior in these riots is not a response to oppression. I did not say that it didn't obscurely result from oppression, because I don't think that is the case. I know that everything results from causes. However, if we look at this reasonably, the rioting is a result of a desire for thuggery and opportunism. If they cared about oppression they would not have been rioting, they would have been protesting. But today they actually would have been doing nothing per the request of Freddie Gray's family. The rioting was started by high school kids... It's not like it was Al Sharpton out there throwing rocks. It was largely teenagers, not typically the type to handle the nuance of fighting oppression. You don't know anything about what it's like for them so you should just not speak to their motives. How would you know how much I can identify with another person. Who do you think you are? And how does them being high school kids do anything to undermine what I am saying. Look, I am generally patient but the stupidity of what some of you are saying is pissing me off. If you think looting a CVS or a 7/11 for some drugs and snacks, or burning down a local business isn't motivated by the desire to "cause trouble and start shit", then I don't know what to tell you because you aren't seeing what is obvious. The tone of your post says it all. right. so as a white guy, my desire to stay informed on the riots so as to not get stabbed on my way to school makes me a racist Please explain what you mean by that because I don't see the problem with what I said - and the tone that you interpret may not necessarily be the tone I intended (which really was no tone at all it was supposed to be as to the point as possible). If you don't even have a clue what it is I can't help you in a couple short posts and I don't have the patience or desire to walk you through an entire course on oppression and privilege. Well I suspect that the actual truth is that you are afraid that if you try to explain what you meant my reply will make you look silly. Otherwise I invite you to do so because you called me out but aren't willing to follow through.
Like I said if you really want to understand you can start by answering why Freddie Gray was arrested and why/how his neck was broken. Otherwise I can't really believe you want to understand.
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I don't think what is happening is a question of race, altho it plays a role. It's rather a question of class : what's the unemployment rate and poverty rate in the poorest baltimore neighborhood ?
The racist act (killing this poor dude) is just an expression of a deeper meaning, which is the existence of a very economically fragile (and thus violent) popular class (popular in latin mean to ravage, to destroy) which basically leave thanks to the black market (and the deal of drug) and who faced, due to the war on drugs, an harsh repression for the last twenty to ten years.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xcgqI7n.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CwBoLgA.jpg)
