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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
April 09 2015 13:47 GMT
#36601
It's not unheard of. When I worked at the Presbyterian General Assembly there was a guy who had done it and tried to talk us into banning gay pastors/marriages. We heard him out politely and then voted the other way.

I think it's fine if adults try to do whatever they want to to their sexual urges/inclinations. But forcing anybody or having kids or other persons incapable of legal consent to do much of anything related to sexuality should be illegal.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 14:33:37
April 09 2015 14:31 GMT
#36602
So wait, several pages ago greenhorizens said the 2nd cop should not be charged as an accessory because maybe be didn't speak out for fear of losing his job because he's a black cop? So gh is fine with the black cop not saying anything about the taser, or lie about cpr, or the shooting, but somehow only the white cop is rqcist?

Also good on the stop to the forced change, it sounds pretty awful.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23268 Posts
April 09 2015 19:06 GMT
#36603
On April 09 2015 23:31 hunts wrote:
So wait, several pages ago greenhorizens said the 2nd cop should not be charged as an accessory because maybe be didn't speak out for fear of losing his job because he's a black cop? So gh is fine with the black cop not saying anything about the taser, or lie about cpr, or the shooting, but somehow only the white cop is rqcist?

Also good on the stop to the forced change, it sounds pretty awful.


I said we don't know if he should. Though his report was released and was so baron of critical details he should be charged as an accomplice at this point. Basically in a plea he would get little to no punishment in exchange for rolling over on what could be a larger department issue. If he can't find evidence of that or it simply isn't the case, he's fucked. Of course if he did roll he'd probably never get hired as a cop again (unless he found a squeaky clean department [although not sure how many of those exist]).

But it's still a long time till a verdict, who knows what kind of punishment (beyond getting fired) will actually be doled out, if at all.

@Yoav

But forcing anybody or having kids or other persons incapable of legal consent to do much of anything related to sexuality should be illegal.


That wasn't referring to general sexual education was it?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
April 09 2015 19:17 GMT
#36604
Ok that's a good answer. I think he should get charged as an accomplice, but we'll see. Honestly what the cop did is dispicable, shooting an unarmed man that was running away, and I hope he rots in jail. At the same time though I hate people trying to paint the victim as some innocent angel that was simply a victim of racism. He wasnt. He had a warrant for his arrest and ran from a cop, he was a criminal. That did not give the cop the right to shoot and kill him, but given him running from as cop he was going to get his ass kicked and thrown in jail for what he did, so he wasn't some angel like people like to say to further their agenda.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23268 Posts
April 09 2015 19:33 GMT
#36605
On April 10 2015 04:17 hunts wrote:
Ok that's a good answer. I think he should get charged as an accomplice, but we'll see. Honestly what the cop did is dispicable, shooting an unarmed man that was running away, and I hope he rots in jail. At the same time though I hate people trying to paint the victim as some innocent angel that was simply a victim of racism. He wasnt. He had a warrant for his arrest and ran from a cop, he was a criminal. That did not give the cop the right to shoot and kill him, but given him running from as cop he was going to get his ass kicked and thrown in jail for what he did, so he wasn't some angel like people like to say to further their agenda.



I don't know anyone has painted him as 'some innocent angel'? He was a target of racism, although how much race played into this particular incident is hard to know for sure. The officer had tased someone before for what witnesses said was "no reason" but the officer wasn't punished and the person he tased for 'no reason' was never charged with anything. That person was also black. It doesn't prove anything one way or the other but it doesn't help the cop or department at all.

One thing that was missed in all this which as a black person who has been pulled over for "broken lights' before (surprise! they were all fully functional) I can't help but wonder.... Did anyone bother to check to see if his tail light was actually broken? Because if the stop was invalid to begin with that paints a rather different picture of a cop pulling over a black guy in a benz on rims for no reason in the first place. Apparently there is a dash cam though so we should know soon whether the taillight was out or not.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 09 2015 19:37 GMT
#36606
Having a warrant out for unpaid child support is slightly above having a warrant out for unpaid speeding tickets. The fact that the officer even drew his weapon in response to the person running is mind blowingly fuck up.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
April 09 2015 20:03 GMT
#36607
On April 10 2015 04:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2015 23:31 hunts wrote:
So wait, several pages ago greenhorizens said the 2nd cop should not be charged as an accessory because maybe be didn't speak out for fear of losing his job because he's a black cop? So gh is fine with the black cop not saying anything about the taser, or lie about cpr, or the shooting, but somehow only the white cop is rqcist?

Also good on the stop to the forced change, it sounds pretty awful.


I said we don't know if he should. Though his report was released and was so baron of critical details he should be charged as an accomplice at this point. Basically in a plea he would get little to no punishment in exchange for rolling over on what could be a larger department issue. If he can't find evidence of that or it simply isn't the case, he's fucked. Of course if he did roll he'd probably never get hired as a cop again (unless he found a squeaky clean department [although not sure how many of those exist]).

But it's still a long time till a verdict, who knows what kind of punishment (beyond getting fired) will actually be doled out, if at all.

@Yoav

Show nested quote +
But forcing anybody or having kids or other persons incapable of legal consent to do much of anything related to sexuality should be illegal.


That wasn't referring to general sexual education was it?


I believe Yoav was talking specifically about conversion therapy, which isn't necessarily related to sexuality if you are trying to convert a transgender person to identify with their birth sex. Regardless, it's messed up and that should be obvious to everyone. Sending your child to go to conversion therapy is making the issue about you, as a parent, and how you are unable to cope with the person your child is becoming. No one should be that self-centered.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23268 Posts
April 09 2015 20:05 GMT
#36608
On April 10 2015 05:03 ZasZ. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 04:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 09 2015 23:31 hunts wrote:
So wait, several pages ago greenhorizens said the 2nd cop should not be charged as an accessory because maybe be didn't speak out for fear of losing his job because he's a black cop? So gh is fine with the black cop not saying anything about the taser, or lie about cpr, or the shooting, but somehow only the white cop is rqcist?

Also good on the stop to the forced change, it sounds pretty awful.


I said we don't know if he should. Though his report was released and was so baron of critical details he should be charged as an accomplice at this point. Basically in a plea he would get little to no punishment in exchange for rolling over on what could be a larger department issue. If he can't find evidence of that or it simply isn't the case, he's fucked. Of course if he did roll he'd probably never get hired as a cop again (unless he found a squeaky clean department [although not sure how many of those exist]).

But it's still a long time till a verdict, who knows what kind of punishment (beyond getting fired) will actually be doled out, if at all.

@Yoav

But forcing anybody or having kids or other persons incapable of legal consent to do much of anything related to sexuality should be illegal.


That wasn't referring to general sexual education was it?


I believe Yoav was talking specifically about conversion therapy, which isn't necessarily related to sexuality if you are trying to convert a transgender person to identify with their birth sex. Regardless, it's messed up and that should be obvious to everyone. Sending your child to go to conversion therapy is making the issue about you, as a parent, and how you are unable to cope with the person your child is becoming. No one should be that self-centered.


I presume it wasn't I just wanted to be sure. Yeah I think conversion therapy is a twisted practice in general but forcefully doing it to children is most definitely child abuse imo.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18831 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 20:07:07
April 09 2015 20:06 GMT
#36609
I think it's interesting to consider whether or not Slager being from New Jersey has played a role in the haste with which his department and city have distanced themselves from him. If this was a Charleston homeboy, I'm not sure the mayor starts calling him a murderer so quickly.

There's this stereotype where I come from, that being NW Ohio, that deals with the idea that there is a small selection of pissed off, racist white men who become cops and then move down south thinking that they'll be able to get away with shooting people more easily. I don't know enough about this Slager guy to say that he fits the profile, but in a preliminary sense, he most certainly does.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 09 2015 20:06 GMT
#36610
On April 10 2015 04:37 Plansix wrote:
Having a warrant out for unpaid child support is slightly above having a warrant out for unpaid speeding tickets. The fact that the officer even drew his weapon in response to the person running is mind blowingly fuck up.

Don't you know? Having a broken tail light is a gateway crime.
liftlift > tsm
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18023 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 20:28:38
April 09 2015 20:28 GMT
#36611
They should send some of those broken tail light cops over to Brazil. I really would not object to half the fucking Fiat Mille drivers on the road getting shot in the back!

/rant off.

For realz tho. Broken tail lights are more common here than working tail lights.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 09 2015 22:21 GMT
#36612
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 22:45:04
April 09 2015 22:44 GMT
#36613
A source with knowledge of Hillary Clinton's plans has confirmed that she will officially announce her 2016 presidential bid on Saturday or Sunday. This will be imminently followed by campaign travel.

Source

HILLARY INCOMING
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 09 2015 22:54 GMT
#36614
On April 10 2015 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source

As stupid as it is to legally force people to take medical prevention, it's even stupider that something like this has to be even considered.

These parents are going to do far more to hurt their childrens' intelligence than any vaccine ever would.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
April 09 2015 22:58 GMT
#36615
On April 10 2015 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source

As stupid as it is to legally force people to take medical prevention, it's even stupider that something like this has to be even considered.

These parents are going to do far more to hurt their childrens' intelligence than any vaccine ever would.

Jenny McCarthy should probably be in prison on about a million charges of endangering a minor.
Who called in the fleet?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23268 Posts
April 09 2015 23:01 GMT
#36616
The Dash Cam from the SC incident.



Couple things I noticed: It was during the day so the stop wasn't over a 'tail light/lamp' it was about a brake light. The car had at least one working brake light (which as I read is the requirement, although it appears this issue has come up in SC already), but based on a couple frames where the light is at the edge of the frame it looks like both brakelights were functioning. The former officer also sounds like he says on the tape that he stopped him because his 'third tail light' was not working, which isn't an infraction at all for sure.

Looks like he didn't even have a good reason to pull him over in the first place... Can't say I'm surprised.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
April 09 2015 23:25 GMT
#36617
On April 10 2015 07:58 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source

As stupid as it is to legally force people to take medical prevention, it's even stupider that something like this has to be even considered.

These parents are going to do far more to hurt their childrens' intelligence than any vaccine ever would.

Jenny McCarthy should probably be in prison on about a million charges of endangering a minor.

She's just a gullible zealot. It's Andrew Wakefield, the doctor in the UK who published falsified results "proving" the link, that should be in prison. And the British scientific community should do a lot of soul-searching that it took years for anyone to question the results, then a few more years to prove they were false and retract his work, by which time the damage had already been done.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-09 23:41:20
April 09 2015 23:31 GMT
#36618
On April 10 2015 08:25 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 07:58 Millitron wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source

As stupid as it is to legally force people to take medical prevention, it's even stupider that something like this has to be even considered.

These parents are going to do far more to hurt their childrens' intelligence than any vaccine ever would.

Jenny McCarthy should probably be in prison on about a million charges of endangering a minor.

She's just a gullible zealot. It's Andrew Wakefield, the doctor in the UK who published falsified results "proving" the link, that should be in prison. And the British scientific community should do a lot of soul-searching that it took years for anyone to question the results, then a few more years to prove they were false and retract his work, by which time the damage had already been done.


you can't arrest someone for being an idiot and messing up a study. and you can't arrest someone because other people took it as fact and no one bothered to fact check. (to be fair I don't have enough information on it, if he deliberately lied/falsified data or something like that its different.)

thats not saying you can't dismiss him from his profession if he refuses to admit mistakes and fails to listen to other people.

it should be noted that if someone's incompetence directly leads to some sort of disaster then you can arrest them (for example someone doesn't follow safety protocols and something collapses.) or if your hired to do something and do terrible job that puts people in danger. (IE environmental impact reports or the like)

of course this is all my personal opinion.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18831 Posts
April 09 2015 23:37 GMT
#36619
On April 10 2015 08:31 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 08:25 coverpunch wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:58 Millitron wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On April 10 2015 07:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
A California bill that would allow students to opt out of mandatory school vaccinations only if they have a medical condition that justifies an exemption is one step closer to becoming law, though it still has a long way to go. The bill was introduced in the California Senate in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland in late December that's now linked to almost 150 infections.

Among several hundred supporters and protesters outside the Capitol building in Sacramento on Wednesday, the bill sparked a debate about individual rights and responsibilities.

Opponents wore American flags. One child held a sign that said, "Force my veggies, not vaccines." They say eliminating the personal belief exemption threatens their ability to do what's right for their kids.

"I think that everybody should be able to make their own choice," said Lisa Cadrein of Los Angeles. She fears vaccines would harm her daughter.

"I am afraid that her big beautiful blue eyes will not focus on me anymore, and she won't be the kid that she is," Cadrein said.


Source

As stupid as it is to legally force people to take medical prevention, it's even stupider that something like this has to be even considered.

These parents are going to do far more to hurt their childrens' intelligence than any vaccine ever would.

Jenny McCarthy should probably be in prison on about a million charges of endangering a minor.

She's just a gullible zealot. It's Andrew Wakefield, the doctor in the UK who published falsified results "proving" the link, that should be in prison. And the British scientific community should do a lot of soul-searching that it took years for anyone to question the results, then a few more years to prove they were false and retract his work, by which time the damage had already been done.


you can't arrest someone for being an idiot and messing up a study. and you can't arrest someone because other people took it as fact and no one bothered to fact check. (to be fair I don't have enough information on it, if he deliberately lied/falsified data or something like that its different.)

thats not saying you can't dismiss him from his profession if he refuses to admit mistakes and fails to listen to other people.

Arrest them? Nah. Humiliate them in public to the full extent the court of popular opinion allows? Absolutely.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 09 2015 23:44 GMT
#36620
should go after the discredited anti-gmo scientists as well.
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