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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
February 12 2015 19:13 GMT
#32801
If the internet gets classified as public utility Obama will personally surveil you while you jerk off, everybody knows that
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 12 2015 19:17 GMT
#32802
Federal investigators have contacted officials at an airport in Columbia, S.C., its executive director said on Wednesday, as part of an investigation into whether a United Airlines flight route between Newark and Columbia was initiated to provide a former Port Authority chairman with a direct route to his weekend home.

Dan Mann, executive director of Columbia Metropolitan Airport, said in an interview that the twice-a-week Newark-Columbia flights — leaving on Thursdays and returning on Mondays — were unusual for a large carrier like United. He also said he was surprised that the route lasted as long as it did, 19 months, given the relatively low demand for it.

“It was not performing well, and it hadn’t performed well from the start,” Mann said.

He said he had no reason to believe there was any ulterior motive behind the flight route until he read recent news stories about the federal investigation.

Former Port Chairman David Samson often took the flight to spend weekends at a home in Aiken, S.C., about 50 miles from the airport, The Record reported last week. Samson, the co-founder of a powerful law firm in West Orange, a former state attorney general, and a key adviser to Governor Christie, referred to the route as “the chairman’s flight,” one source said. The flights were, on average, only half full. United stopped the flights in April of last year, just three days after Samson’s resignation.

As chairman of the Port Authority, which operates the region’s airports, Samson would have been a powerful ally for any airline, but he was particularly involved in negotiations with United. Samson and Christie met with United’s chief executive at least once to discuss the airline’s expansion of service to Atlantic City and its operations in Newark, a spokes­woman for the airline said previously. And Samson publicly supported the Port Authority’s decision to extend the PATH train system to Newark Liberty International, a $1.5 billion project that would provide a direct link between Manhattan and United’s hub.

Both the Port Authority and United have received federal subpoenas in the investigation.

Mann would not say whether federal authorities in New Jersey had issued a subpoena to officials of the South Carolina airport, saying only that they had made contact within the last month. The probe is one of several lines of inquiry arising out of an investigation that began last year into the George Washington Bridge lane closing scandal.

“We are cooperating,” Mann said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
February 12 2015 19:42 GMT
#32803
On February 13 2015 04:10 hannahbelle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 04:09 kwizach wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

Good thing that has nothing to do with what's on the table from the FCC and the Obama administration, then?


Are you really that naïve?


Oh god it's you again.....



Honestly, are you that naïve?
Based on your previous postings I already know the answer to this, but I'll beat my head against the wall a little more...


I don't understand how the fuck people like you keep confusing net neutrality legislation with the NSA wiretapping.

They are completely different issues.

The only thing they have in common is that they both involve the internet.

It's like the government regulating highway rules for driving vs. mandating GPS trackers be placed in every car so that they know exactly where every car is all the time.

Different. Issues. Entirely.
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 12 2015 19:55 GMT
#32804
On February 13 2015 03:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

That is the government doing the worst possible thing. Making it a utility subjects it mountains of rules and regulations.

I am not a fan of paid prioritization, but with certain companies' products increasing bandwidth usage, the current situation is untenable for the long run. Someone is going to bear the cost burden for all this bandwidth. Ultimately, it will be the consumer, via increased rates from ISP or increased prices for services such as Netflix. I would prefer to pay the rates for the services I use, not just a plain increase in ISP fees.

I don't trust corporations to solve this problem, but I trust the government even less. Keep the government out of this. I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

So why does the rest of the world have none of these issues.
Is America special again?

A lot of the issues that the US faces are the same as in other countries (ex. rural broadband ain't cheap). Also note that a lot of people are complaining about market issues that are in no small part due to past regulations. There just isn't a magic regulatory wand that's going to make everything perfect.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
February 12 2015 20:10 GMT
#32805
On February 13 2015 04:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 03:54 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

That is the government doing the worst possible thing. Making it a utility subjects it mountains of rules and regulations.

I am not a fan of paid prioritization, but with certain companies' products increasing bandwidth usage, the current situation is untenable for the long run. Someone is going to bear the cost burden for all this bandwidth. Ultimately, it will be the consumer, via increased rates from ISP or increased prices for services such as Netflix. I would prefer to pay the rates for the services I use, not just a plain increase in ISP fees.

I don't trust corporations to solve this problem, but I trust the government even less. Keep the government out of this. I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

So why does the rest of the world have none of these issues.
Is America special again?

A lot of the issues that the US faces are the same as in other countries (ex. rural broadband ain't cheap). Also note that a lot of people are complaining about market issues that are in no small part due to past regulations. There just isn't a magic regulatory wand that's going to make everything perfect.

Really we don't need new regulations, we need current ones to be enforced. We need anti-trust laws to actually be applied. ISP's are practically monopolies in many places. In my hometown, the only real broadband option is Time Warner Cable. In theory, Verizon is a competitor, but their services are so vastly different they aren't really competing for the same customers. Many other communities are in similar situations. If there was a crackdown on monopolies, ISP's wouldn't be able to pull that fast-lane bullshit because their customers would just go to a competitor.
Who called in the fleet?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 12 2015 21:06 GMT
#32806
WASHINGTON -- The director of the FBI said on Thursday that law enforcement officers may develop a cynicism that can lead them to treat minorities unfairly, and acknowledged the need for a debate about race and policing.

FBI Director James Comey, in a speech on race and law enforcement delivered at Georgetown University, said that throughout American history, law enforcement has often enforced "a status quo that was often brutally unfair to disfavored groups." Citing the song "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist" from the Broadway musical "Avenue Q," he said that many in America's "white-majority culture have unconscious racial biases and react differently to a white face than a black face."

The speech appears be the first time that a director of the FBI has so directly addressed the way that race influences law enforcement. Comey said that decades ago, his Irish ancestors likely faced their own problems with discrimination, but said that "little compares to the experience on our soil of black Americans."

While Comey heaped praise upon the nation's law enforcement officers, he also said he was "not looking to let law enforcement off the hook" as he called for an “open and honest discussion” about the role that race can play in the justice system.

"We must better understand the people we serve and protect -- by trying to know, deep in our gut, what it feels like to be a law-abiding young black man walking on the street and encountering law enforcement," Comey said. "We must understand how that young man may see us. We must resist the lazy shortcuts of cynicism and approach him with respect and decency."

The FBI director also said that the federal government needed to to a better job tracking the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Comey said his staff had been unable to determine the number of people shot by the police in the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, that followed the death of Michael Brown in August. Having more information about what is happening in law enforcement across the country, Comey said, is the first step towards addressing the problems.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
February 12 2015 21:28 GMT
#32807
On February 13 2015 06:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON -- The director of the FBI said on Thursday that law enforcement officers may develop a cynicism that can lead them to treat minorities unfairly, and acknowledged the need for a debate about race and policing.

FBI Director James Comey, in a speech on race and law enforcement delivered at Georgetown University, said that throughout American history, law enforcement has often enforced "a status quo that was often brutally unfair to disfavored groups." Citing the song "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist" from the Broadway musical "Avenue Q," he said that many in America's "white-majority culture have unconscious racial biases and react differently to a white face than a black face."

The speech appears be the first time that a director of the FBI has so directly addressed the way that race influences law enforcement. Comey said that decades ago, his Irish ancestors likely faced their own problems with discrimination, but said that "little compares to the experience on our soil of black Americans."

While Comey heaped praise upon the nation's law enforcement officers, he also said he was "not looking to let law enforcement off the hook" as he called for an “open and honest discussion” about the role that race can play in the justice system.

"We must better understand the people we serve and protect -- by trying to know, deep in our gut, what it feels like to be a law-abiding young black man walking on the street and encountering law enforcement," Comey said. "We must understand how that young man may see us. We must resist the lazy shortcuts of cynicism and approach him with respect and decency."

The FBI director also said that the federal government needed to to a better job tracking the number of deaths caused by law enforcement. Comey said his staff had been unable to determine the number of people shot by the police in the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, that followed the death of Michael Brown in August. Having more information about what is happening in law enforcement across the country, Comey said, is the first step towards addressing the problems.


Source

These articles about Comey's comments feel very strange, like he's particularizing the wrong generals and generalizing the wrong particulars. It seems like he subtly shifted from the problem of a couple white officers who killed black people to a broader historical problem of racial bias in society while insisting each individual cop is not a racist.

But Comey's conclusion is to support legislation collecting data of police incidents based on race and trying harder to fight prejudice and bias. In short, doing basically nothing in terms of changing or retraining police habits.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23246 Posts
February 12 2015 21:41 GMT
#32808
Oh the irony of people coming here to complain about Net Neutrality happening... I refer you to the quote in my sig...

As for Comey, that's a hell of a lot better than anyone before him. It's the truth too many people don't want to hear. I'd like to see significant retraining programs too. iirc the departments they recently investigated on these lines have one of those programs going now as a result.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 21:51:24
February 12 2015 21:51 GMT
#32809
Breaking:



"U.S. District Court Judge Callie Granade's order sought to clarify that Mobile County Probate Court Judge Don Davis should follow her directive, and not a contravening order from Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore that has led to many state judges to refrain from issuing marriage licenses to gay couples. "
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 22:03:07
February 12 2015 22:00 GMT
#32810
On February 13 2015 03:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

That is the government doing the worst possible thing. Making it a utility subjects it mountains of rules and regulations.

I am not a fan of paid prioritization, but with certain companies' products increasing bandwidth usage, the current situation is untenable for the long run. Someone is going to bear the cost burden for all this bandwidth. Ultimately, it will be the consumer, via increased rates from ISP or increased prices for services such as Netflix. I would prefer to pay the rates for the services I use, not just a plain increase in ISP fees.

I don't trust corporations to solve this problem, but I trust the government even less. Keep the government out of this. I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

So why does the rest of the world have none of these issues.
Is America special again?


Because we run the internet. And are home to most internet companies that matter.

On February 13 2015 05:10 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 04:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:54 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

That is the government doing the worst possible thing. Making it a utility subjects it mountains of rules and regulations.

I am not a fan of paid prioritization, but with certain companies' products increasing bandwidth usage, the current situation is untenable for the long run. Someone is going to bear the cost burden for all this bandwidth. Ultimately, it will be the consumer, via increased rates from ISP or increased prices for services such as Netflix. I would prefer to pay the rates for the services I use, not just a plain increase in ISP fees.

I don't trust corporations to solve this problem, but I trust the government even less. Keep the government out of this. I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

So why does the rest of the world have none of these issues.
Is America special again?

A lot of the issues that the US faces are the same as in other countries (ex. rural broadband ain't cheap). Also note that a lot of people are complaining about market issues that are in no small part due to past regulations. There just isn't a magic regulatory wand that's going to make everything perfect.

Really we don't need new regulations, we need current ones to be enforced. We need anti-trust laws to actually be applied. ISP's are practically monopolies in many places. In my hometown, the only real broadband option is Time Warner Cable. In theory, Verizon is a competitor, but their services are so vastly different they aren't really competing for the same customers. Many other communities are in similar situations. If there was a crackdown on monopolies, ISP's wouldn't be able to pull that fast-lane bullshit because their customers would just go to a competitor.


This is truth. If we enforced antitrust laws, all sorts of the most bullshit companies would have to shape up. ISPs and airlines first on the list, but we might have been spared Windows 8 too.

On February 13 2015 02:41 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

Do you really believe they'd stop there though? I don't. Not with the NSA wiretapping still going on, and how many FCC officials had or even still have ties to ISP's.


The NSA already reads all your emails. It's over, we lost. Oh well.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 12 2015 22:10 GMT
#32811
8 page order released:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/255598034/1-14-cv-00424-55-Order

Now the ball is back in Roy Moore's court once more. What does he do?
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 12 2015 22:10 GMT
#32812
on the cable as utility thing, the argument is rather detached from the reality of local politics, and this is companies have local territories that are not disrupted by new technology.

add this fact to the mix and it's easy to see cable companies as local monopolies and this is supported by empirical history. cablevision for example will always run certain areas of new york, similarly for comcast etc. when a new technology emerges, they don't even get the power to lay the cables in certain areas due to local politicians and permits.


if these cable companies are locally entrenched then they won't be dislodged by new technology and it's extremely hard to argue for non-utility treatment.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
February 12 2015 22:23 GMT
#32813
reminds me of how certain southern school districts would just shut down instead of complying with integration laws
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
February 12 2015 22:31 GMT
#32814
On February 13 2015 07:10 oneofthem wrote:
on the cable as utility thing, the argument is rather detached from the reality of local politics, and this is companies have local territories that are not disrupted by new technology.

add this fact to the mix and it's easy to see cable companies as local monopolies and this is supported by empirical history. cablevision for example will always run certain areas of new york, similarly for comcast etc. when a new technology emerges, they don't even get the power to lay the cables in certain areas due to local politicians and permits.


if these cable companies are locally entrenched then they won't be dislodged by new technology and it's extremely hard to argue for non-utility treatment.

Or you could bust them up like classic anti-trust enforcement. The TWC branch covering any particular county in upstate NY would have trouble keeping competition out without support from the rest of TWC.
Who called in the fleet?
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 12 2015 22:39 GMT
#32815
but they do support each other, see baby bells
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 22:53:59
February 12 2015 22:46 GMT
#32816
On February 13 2015 07:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
8 page order released:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/255598034/1-14-cv-00424-55-Order

Now the ball is back in Roy Moore's court once more. What does he do?

Doesn't really matter. The probate judge below doesn't have a choice but to allow the marriage. Moore will end up getting removed office and possibly disbarred if he presses this any further.
dabom88
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3483 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 23:34:06
February 12 2015 23:33 GMT
#32817
On February 13 2015 07:46 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 07:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
8 page order released:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/255598034/1-14-cv-00424-55-Order

Now the ball is back in Roy Moore's court once more. What does he do?

Doesn't really matter. The probate judge below doesn't have a choice but to allow the marriage. Moore will end up getting removed office and possibly disbarred if he presses this any further.

And Moore is no stranger to being removed from office for not following federal orders.
You should not have to pay to watch the GSL, Proleague, or OSL at a reasonable time. That is not "fine" and it's BS to say otherwise. My sig since 2011. http://www.youtube.com/user/dabom88
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
February 12 2015 23:54 GMT
#32818
On February 13 2015 05:10 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 04:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:54 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
On February 13 2015 02:29 Nyxisto wrote:
The government doesn't actually have to do anything, it just needs to declare the internet a public utility and that's it. They don't need to create any institutions or something, so there is no need for trust.

That is the government doing the worst possible thing. Making it a utility subjects it mountains of rules and regulations.

I am not a fan of paid prioritization, but with certain companies' products increasing bandwidth usage, the current situation is untenable for the long run. Someone is going to bear the cost burden for all this bandwidth. Ultimately, it will be the consumer, via increased rates from ISP or increased prices for services such as Netflix. I would prefer to pay the rates for the services I use, not just a plain increase in ISP fees.

I don't trust corporations to solve this problem, but I trust the government even less. Keep the government out of this. I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

So why does the rest of the world have none of these issues.
Is America special again?

A lot of the issues that the US faces are the same as in other countries (ex. rural broadband ain't cheap). Also note that a lot of people are complaining about market issues that are in no small part due to past regulations. There just isn't a magic regulatory wand that's going to make everything perfect.

Really we don't need new regulations, we need current ones to be enforced. We need anti-trust laws to actually be applied. ISP's are practically monopolies in many places. In my hometown, the only real broadband option is Time Warner Cable. In theory, Verizon is a competitor, but their services are so vastly different they aren't really competing for the same customers. Many other communities are in similar situations. If there was a crackdown on monopolies, ISP's wouldn't be able to pull that fast-lane bullshit because their customers would just go to a competitor.

How would anti-trust laws work? There's one cable line heading into my apartment. Breaking up TWC doesn't change that.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-13 00:10:29
February 13 2015 00:08 GMT
#32819
I don't understand. Net neutrality legislation is a really good way to ensure more competition because it takes the power from ISP's away to favour big corporations that can pay for prioritization. It helps creating a diverse environment. So if you're all for free market solutions net neutrality is a good way to ensure that the playing field stays fair.

Breaking up ISP's themselves seems ridiculous. Providing internet infrastructure is so costly that it actually makes sense to have it done by big companies or the government, they just need regulations to not abuse their power.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
February 13 2015 00:16 GMT
#32820
On February 13 2015 04:10 hannahbelle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2015 04:09 kwizach wrote:
On February 13 2015 03:25 hannahbelle wrote:
I don't need Obama regulating what internet sites I visit.

Good thing that has nothing to do with what's on the table from the FCC and the Obama administration, then?

Are you really that naïve?

What exactly does "Obama regulating what internet sites you visit" have to do with the proposals from the FCC? The two are different matters that you're trying to tie together.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
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