|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
I would say that this is Texas being Texas, but even the speaker of the Texas House has already tacitly reprimanded Rep. White.
Freshman state Rep. Molly White, R-Belton, is not in Austin today to celebrate Texas Muslim Capitol Day. But she left instructions for the staff in her Capitol office on how to handle visitors who are, including asking them to declare allegiance to the United States.
"I did leave an Israeli flag on the reception desk in my office with instructions to staff to ask representatives from the Muslim community to renounce Islamic terrorist groups and publicly announce allegiance to America and our laws," she posted on Facebook. "We will see how long they stay in my office."
Texas Muslim Capitol Day, which began in 2003, is organized by the Texas chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations and brings members of Muslim communities in Houston, Dallas and other areas of the state to the Capitol to learn about the political process and meet state lawmakers. Texas has the eighth-largest Muslim population in the United States, with more than 420,000 Muslims residing in the state, according to estimates from the Texas State Historical Association.
Even before participants in Thursday's event — about 100 Muslims, mostly children — could get to lawmakers' offices, they encountered opposition from a group of about 25 protesters outside the Capitol holding signs. One said, "Radical Islam is the New Nazi." Another said, "Go Home & Take Obama With You."
Rep to Staff: Ask Muslim Visitors to Pledge Allegiance
|
On January 30 2015 16:17 hannahbelle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 16:11 Slaughter wrote:
Well no one really takes standardized tests seriously when measuring academic achievement for one, two the group that scored the lowest were also homeschoolers and three I don't know where you got this idea that I have a pessimistic view on home schooling.
Its fine if its done the right way, which is why I asked if there were any standards or oversight for it. My point wasn't to stereotype the whole group but to point out the potential for it to have adverse effects on the child by restricting their world view to the point that they are simple carbon copies of their parents ideologically because they haven't been taught anything else. Again I never said this was the norm in home schooling situations. Every college out there takes standardized testing seriously. Sure it's not the only factor on admissions, but to deny it's taken seriously is ludicrous. To answer your other question, each state has their own standards and guidelines for homeschooling. Some are more strict and some are more lenient. As far as I know, there hasn't even been a correlation shown between the state laws governing homeschooling and actual outcomes vis-à-vis testing. I more fear that kids are being minted out carbon copies of whatever their teacher or professor tells them, belying the need for critical thinking because "all of the experts say it must be so"! It must be remembered that science usually only ever advances because someone bucks the prevailing wisdom and rows against the current.
Okay, honestly, I try to not resort to ad hominems as much as possible, but I have to say it: the things you are saying are very, very stupid. I don't even know where to begin on this vaccine stuff...
I guess a good place to start is with the highlighted part. And you know what, you're right about that. Science does advance when people challenge prevailing paradigms with good, empirical work. That's how careers in science are made. In some cases scientists who challenge paradigms are wrongfully shamed, but one of the prevailing themes of stories celebrated amongst scientists are about those individuals who were wrongfully disregarded but became vindicated once their evidence and theories were proven over time. Those individuals are essentially conceptualized as the "heroes" of science.
This is why your posts about vaccines are so nonsense. If there was a story to tell about vaccines being more harmful, people would be studying it. People are studying it scientifically. And the vast majority (scratch that, overwhelmingly all) of their findings are that vaccines undoubtedly do more good than they do harm. Of course you can scream the usual absurd tinfoil hat "but BIG-PHARMA PAYS ALL THE SCIENTISTS WITH THEIR CORRUPT DRUG MONIES", but it's just not true. Of course there are labs and researchers who have conflicts of interest. They are typically forward about those interests if they are credible researchers. However, there are a large number of scientists with only indirect links at best and usually no links at all with those companies, that are unaffiliated tenured researchers doing their research using grants. Again, you can ask "where do those grants come from", and the answer would be government, non-profits, hospitals, universities, etc. All of which are large bureaucratic institutions with only tenuous links (and I mean tenuous) to "BIG PHARMA".
In short, there are careers to be made findings things wrong with vaccines. Every single researcher on the planet is looking for a smoking gun. Scientists would LOVE to find something like the proposed link with vaccines and autism. Those findings make careers. Hell, people made careers (and a lot of money and influence) for a short period of time with their bunk science that criticised vaccines. But then their science was exposed as shoddy after hordes of interested medical scientists began examining the questions that they raised (this is how science works), and their careers ruined.
And this is where all of your posts kind of come together into a huge heap of cognitive dissonance. On one hand, you talk about science "progressing" and celebrating those who "buck trends" in your post about home-schooling, but then you willingly ignore what progressive science has found regarding vaccination. There is a lot of incentive in science to "buck" trends, providing the data supports your discovery. When you knowingly lie about your findings while having multiple conflicts of interest (as the original autism-vaccine Lancet researchers did) scientists and medical professionals are justifiably going to be pissed.
Like I said, the overwhelming scientific findings regarding vaccines are that they are a net benefit. You can't "extoll" the virtues of intrepid scientists who challenge paradigms and "progress" science while ignoring the very real progress health-science has made in the recent years regarding vaccination. Challenging prevailing paradigms is virtuous. There is a huge reward system set-up for scientists who do so. Often they do have to fight adversity. Sometimes they are not vindicated until years later (and sometimes posthumously). The system isn't perfect. But it works pretty damn well in most cases.
Edit: It's is worth bringing up here that "bandwagoning" is something that happens in science, and I believe that I have two recent examples that illustrate successful science, and how this bandwagoning can sometimes be a good thing. When a "sexy" research finding is "discovered" scientists will definitely re-orient their own personal research to incorporate an aspect of this new "discovery". I feel like Climate change and the autism-vaccine connection are two illustrative examples. Everyone kind of heaped on to these paradigms to incorporate them into their own personal research system (the potential impact of climate change was, and still is, a popular topic of research in the biological sciences, for example). But the two different topics are illustrative of successful science. There is data to support the conclusion that there are climate changes occurring to many global regions (the arctic is the most severely impacted), but all of the researchers who poured time and effort into large-scale studies examining the link between autism and vaccine ended up finding nothing. And let me fucking tell you, there is a LOT more moneyed interests in oil than there are in vaccines. If "money corrupted science" lead to the suppression of scientific findings that vaccines are harmful, how the fuck does it make sense that the infinitely more powerful energy lobby can't suppress climate change science? What's even funnier is that the energy lobby is actually objectively attempting and failing at (within the scientific community) suppressing that science. Hell, in Canada the government is actually openly hostile to climate-change science, and actively tightly muzzles federal scientists. And they still can't suppress it.....
Right now the best scientists studying the issue of vaccines have a consensus, and that consensus is supported by the data: for the love of fucking god, vaccinate your kids.
\With respect to the issues you've raised regarding personal freedoms, I typically agree. I am definitely in favor of personal freedom, almost to an extreme. It's absurd to force parents to send their kids to school. Home-schooling is a right that parents have. Ditto for vaccines, you can't force vaccinations onto someone. The right to ignorance is a right that should be protected. But there's no reason you shouldn't be called out on your ignorance.
As an off note, I have to say as someone who typically falls on the "left" of the political spectrum, this fucking issue drives me up the wall because it's the one anti-science issue that often comes up from our side. I just don't get how people can say "the science says the globe is warming" (it does) but then turn around and say "I'm not getting my kids vaccinated"........
Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force?
Last note: This perspective is coming from an individual who self-identifies as a practitioner of science.
|
As a self proclaimed critic of capital S Science, I approve Ballin's message.
|
Mitt - officially not running.
|
On January 31 2015 00:59 RCMDVA wrote:
Mitt - officially not running.
Good riddance. He's given it a go twice already. I think we've seen enough.
|
On January 31 2015 01:01 xDaunt wrote:Good riddance. He's given it a go twice already. I think we've seen enough.
Who are you hoping to win the Republican ticket? Same person you expect to?
|
On January 31 2015 01:08 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 01:01 xDaunt wrote:On January 31 2015 00:59 RCMDVA wrote:
Mitt - officially not running.
Good riddance. He's given it a go twice already. I think we've seen enough. Who are you hoping to win the Republican ticket? Same person you expect to?
As of now, Scott Walker and Scott Walker. Of course, this is subject to change as the campaign evolves.
|
|
|
Interestingly, he doesn't actually say unions in that video. I don't think anyone doubts, however, that he'd continue to take government unions to the woodshed if elected.
|
On January 30 2015 22:54 oneofthem wrote:
these last couple pages is like one of those old disney cartoon westerns. town vs criminals vs indians with benny hill music.
and yes these euros arguing against gmo are the indians.
so... we are already the moral victors and only defend non GMO crops from species extinction? :p
|
I can't wait for the union dismantling vs. union reform debates. Scott Walker gonna go downnnnnn.
|
On January 31 2015 02:56 farvacola wrote:
I can't wait for the union dismantling vs. union reform debates. Scott Walker gonna go downnnnnn.
What is "union reform?"
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 31 2015 02:24 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 22:54 oneofthem wrote:
these last couple pages is like one of those old disney cartoon westerns. town vs criminals vs indians with benny hill music.
and yes these euros arguing against gmo are the indians. so... we are already the moral victors and only defend non GMO crops from species extinction? :p
pretty sure indigenous people of north america would have appreciated monsanto technology back in the day. the yield stabilization is all chief powhatan could talk about for days.
|
On January 31 2015 02:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 02:56 farvacola wrote:
I can't wait for the union dismantling vs. union reform debates. Scott Walker gonna go downnnnnn. What is "union reform?"
That you even have to ask makes your support for Walker even more hilarious.
"So wait, we can regulate and change how public employee unions function? We don't have to destroy them? I'm gonna destroy them."
|
On January 31 2015 03:04 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 02:58 xDaunt wrote:On January 31 2015 02:56 farvacola wrote:
I can't wait for the union dismantling vs. union reform debates. Scott Walker gonna go downnnnnn. What is "union reform?" That you even have to ask makes your support for Walker even more hilarious. "So wait, we can regulate and change how public employee unions function? We don't have to destroy them? I'm gonna destroy them."
Well no shit, I understand what it means generally, but what is the specific proposal?
|
The specific proposals dealing with public union reform look a lot like the union actions of the 50s and 60s, except the roles are kind of switched. The government needs to step in and more directly tie the interests of the unions, the employers, and the employees to the communities in which they operate. For example, the Chicago Teacher's Union has a big problem with what amount to isolated pension and compensation regimes that are effectively entirely divorced from the standard pay schemes operating in and around the schools. This can be fixed by mandating benefit and pay thresholds for long term teachers that adjust to reflect the realities of the surrounding communities.
|
On January 31 2015 03:23 farvacola wrote:
The specific proposals dealing with public union reform look a lot like the union actions of the 50s and 60s, except the roles are kind of switched. The government needs to step in and more directly tie the interests of the unions, the employers, and the employees to the communities in which they operate. For example, the Chicago Teacher's Union has a big problem with what amount to isolated pension and compensation regimes that are effectively entirely divorced from the standard pay schemes operating in and around the schools. This can be fixed by mandating benefit and pay thresholds for long term teachers that adjust to reflect the realities of the surrounding communities.
I suspect that there will be a cold day in Hell before democrats willingly throw their public union supporters under the bus and force a meaningful reform -- much less the public unions themselves voluntarily committing to such reform. Until such a time, there won't be a viable alternative to dismantling the unions or otherwise bludgeoning them with conservative reform efforts.
|
On January 31 2015 03:23 farvacola wrote:
The specific proposals dealing with public union reform look a lot like the union actions of the 50s and 60s, except the roles are kind of switched. The government needs to step in and more directly tie the interests of the unions, the employers, and the employees to the communities in which they operate. For example, the Chicago Teacher's Union has a big problem with what amount to isolated pension and compensation regimes that are effectively entirely divorced from the standard pay schemes operating in and around the schools. This can be fixed by mandating benefit and pay thresholds for long term teachers that adjust to reflect the realities of the surrounding communities.
I imagine trying to do that turning toxic pretty quick. Is there enough willingness for reform among union members and their supporters? Reforms would be nice but should have happened decades ago, and it's pretty telling that the willingness to reform is only appearing now that unions are on their deathbed.
|
On January 31 2015 03:44 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 03:23 farvacola wrote:
The specific proposals dealing with public union reform look a lot like the union actions of the 50s and 60s, except the roles are kind of switched. The government needs to step in and more directly tie the interests of the unions, the employers, and the employees to the communities in which they operate. For example, the Chicago Teacher's Union has a big problem with what amount to isolated pension and compensation regimes that are effectively entirely divorced from the standard pay schemes operating in and around the schools. This can be fixed by mandating benefit and pay thresholds for long term teachers that adjust to reflect the realities of the surrounding communities. I imagine trying to do that turning toxic pretty quick. Is there enough willingness for reform among union members and their supporters? Reforms would be nice but should have happened decades ago, and it's pretty telling that the willingness to reform is only appearing now that unions are on their deathbed.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't even see a broad-based willingness from unions to even accept real reform.
|
On January 30 2015 23:44 farvacola wrote:I would say that this is Texas being Texas, but even the speaker of the Texas House has already tacitly reprimanded Rep. White. Show nested quote +Freshman state Rep. Molly White, R-Belton, is not in Austin today to celebrate Texas Muslim Capitol Day. But she left instructions for the staff in her Capitol office on how to handle visitors who are, including asking them to declare allegiance to the United States.
"I did leave an Israeli flag on the reception desk in my office with instructions to staff to ask representatives from the Muslim community to renounce Islamic terrorist groups and publicly announce allegiance to America and our laws," she posted on Facebook. "We will see how long they stay in my office."
Texas Muslim Capitol Day, which began in 2003, is organized by the Texas chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations and brings members of Muslim communities in Houston, Dallas and other areas of the state to the Capitol to learn about the political process and meet state lawmakers. Texas has the eighth-largest Muslim population in the United States, with more than 420,000 Muslims residing in the state, according to estimates from the Texas State Historical Association.
Even before participants in Thursday's event — about 100 Muslims, mostly children — could get to lawmakers' offices, they encountered opposition from a group of about 25 protesters outside the Capitol holding signs. One said, "Radical Islam is the New Nazi." Another said, "Go Home & Take Obama With You." Rep to Staff: Ask Muslim Visitors to Pledge Allegiance
Islamophobia is useful for two reasons: 1) energizes the evangelicals without mobilizing gay or women's rights groups that already won the culture war of the 90s 2) "Its not racist because Islam is a religion!"
Jindal is going deep into this for the same reason, cheap and easy political points at a time when going hard anti gay is no longer politically viable on the national stage to mobilize the religious right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
