|
On November 18 2012 18:11 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:01 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:48 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 17:38 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:20 biology]major wrote:
so with my VERY limited information on this situation, one side is lead by terrorists (hamas) that use their civilians as a shield for their objective to eliminate Israel. The other side is willing to negotiate and is willing to play "defense" permanently, although it does retaliate just as readily. Both sides have committed atrocities, but why do these countries insist on fighting Israel, when it can wipe them off the map? power of terrorism + extreme religion I guess...
I see no good end to this other than a temporary peace, man fuck terrorism. Civilians always get fucked over One mans terrorist is the other mans freedom fighter. And Israel is not exactly just playing "defence" nor are they too willing to negotiate, in fact they do everything they can to obstruct Palestine as showcased by their latest actions in the UN. There is no good side down there. They are both equally bad and equally willing in targeting the civilian population. No, they are not both equally as bad, Hamas aims at civilians and dosnt mind in the least when their own civilians die as its good PR and anyway they will get to heaven. Plenty times in this thread people have linked info and shown where Hamas fire from, keep their weapons and fire randomly in to population centers. If Israel were to fire a rockets randomly after each time it was hit then you could argue that they are equally as bad, Yes, you are equally bad. The retaliations of Israel are not exactly aimed at military targets, nor do you historically hold any moral highground considering how Israel practically invented terrorism themselves, assassinating amongst other an English diplomat in Egypt! And Israel, not Palestine, are the ones occupying illegally acquired land (as per the UN treaties) and are obstructing every single attempt by Palestine to get a platform on which to act politically thus making sure you can keep on oppressing the civilian population in Gaza. Sure you might not fire rockets at random, but you have done plenty of other stuff to warrant my statement. Your opinion is 1 sided and has been discussed several times in this thread, However you have no problem to compare Israel to those who use suicide bombers, hide weapons in civilian ares, indoctrate for killing the all the enemy and pushing them in to the sea. You ignore that pre-second intifada the situation in gaza was much better. And the cheery on top is claiming that the targeting of a British official (not a civilian) over 60 years by a group that has not existed for just as long is akin and comparable to modern crimes. You are welcome to your opinion but clearly there is no point in my arguing with you as your mind is made up and nothing will change it.
My opinion is one-sided because I see the bad things both sides have committed whilst you neglect everything done by Israel? Right... I am fine with you having your opinion, but you are correct, there is absolutely no reason for us to discuss, because you are not going to adapt anything that even resembles a nuanced view.
P.S.: Since when did diplomats become military targets?
EDIT: I like the PMs direct to me inquiring about my mental capacity and then linking to a website called "Elders of Ziyon" as prime sources of unbiased information. Seriously people?! You are making it more than a little hard for me to take you seriously.
|
On November 18 2012 18:11 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:01 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:48 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 17:38 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:20 biology]major wrote:
so with my VERY limited information on this situation, one side is lead by terrorists (hamas) that use their civilians as a shield for their objective to eliminate Israel. The other side is willing to negotiate and is willing to play "defense" permanently, although it does retaliate just as readily. Both sides have committed atrocities, but why do these countries insist on fighting Israel, when it can wipe them off the map? power of terrorism + extreme religion I guess...
I see no good end to this other than a temporary peace, man fuck terrorism. Civilians always get fucked over One mans terrorist is the other mans freedom fighter. And Israel is not exactly just playing "defence" nor are they too willing to negotiate, in fact they do everything they can to obstruct Palestine as showcased by their latest actions in the UN. There is no good side down there. They are both equally bad and equally willing in targeting the civilian population. No, they are not both equally as bad, Hamas aims at civilians and dosnt mind in the least when their own civilians die as its good PR and anyway they will get to heaven. Plenty times in this thread people have linked info and shown where Hamas fire from, keep their weapons and fire randomly in to population centers. If Israel were to fire a rockets randomly after each time it was hit then you could argue that they are equally as bad, Yes, you are equally bad. The retaliations of Israel are not exactly aimed at military targets, nor do you historically hold any moral highground considering how Israel practically invented terrorism themselves, assassinating amongst other an English diplomat in Egypt! And Israel, not Palestine, are the ones occupying illegally acquired land (as per the UN treaties) and are obstructing every single attempt by Palestine to get a platform on which to act politically thus making sure you can keep on oppressing the civilian population in Gaza. Sure you might not fire rockets at random, but you have done plenty of other stuff to warrant my statement. Your opinion is 1 sided and has been discussed several times in this thread, However you have no problem to compare Israel to those who use suicide bombers, hide weapons in civilian ares, indoctrate for killing the all the enemy and pushing them in to the sea. You ignore that pre-second intifada the situation in gaza was much better. And the cheery on top is claiming that the targeting of a British official (not a civilian) over 60 years by a group that has not existed for just as long is akin and comparable to modern crimes. You are welcome to your opinion but clearly there is no point in my arguing with you as your mind is made up and nothing will change it.
sweet irony....
Jews, just like Arabs, hid weapons in immoral places
Haganah,the Irgun, and the Stern Gang, which operated against the British government and the Arabs in Palestine, used similar tactics to those implemented by Arab militants.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/jews-just-like-arabs-hid-weapons-in-immoral-places-1.339432
|
On November 18 2012 17:03 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 16:37 DigiGnar wrote:On November 18 2012 16:15 oneofthem wrote:On November 18 2012 16:10 Craze wrote:On November 18 2012 16:03 HunterX11 wrote:On November 18 2012 14:56 DigiGnar wrote:
With this whole "giving land back", let's look at Texas and Mexico. Should America "give back" Texas? FUCK NO. Do you think that America should start bombing Mexico? After all, they pose a much greater threat to American citizens than Gazans do to Israelis, yet we haven't dropped a single bomb on them! Uh... what? dat drug trade. You don't think America wants Mexico to be fucked by the Zetas? There's also military experience to be gained. (This is an EXTREMELY unpopular opinion, but if you had to choose from a new recruit or a battle-hardened vet to fight for your life, who would you choose?) Also, the Zetas pose literally no threat to the safety of America. A very small amount may get caught in the cross fire, but the Zetas pose no threat. You're joking right? That's stupid.
Do you know that America allows for poppy fields to grow in the Middle East? Did you know that Russia has a severe heroin problem?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/world/europe/23russia.html
So, why wouldn't it be possible for America to do the same to Mexico?
Most things in the world are dictated by America, whether you like it or not. What you see in Israel is only a taste of what America is capable of. (Missile shield.)
Also, again, who would you like to fight for you? Someone that has never seen combat, or someone that has? China understands this, as they fought in wars between other countries that they could've stayed out of entirely. It would be beyond fucking stupid to choose a fresh recruit over a battle-harded veteran.
|
On November 18 2012 18:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:11 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 18:01 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:48 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 17:38 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 17:20 biology]major wrote:
so with my VERY limited information on this situation, one side is lead by terrorists (hamas) that use their civilians as a shield for their objective to eliminate Israel. The other side is willing to negotiate and is willing to play "defense" permanently, although it does retaliate just as readily. Both sides have committed atrocities, but why do these countries insist on fighting Israel, when it can wipe them off the map? power of terrorism + extreme religion I guess...
I see no good end to this other than a temporary peace, man fuck terrorism. Civilians always get fucked over One mans terrorist is the other mans freedom fighter. And Israel is not exactly just playing "defence" nor are they too willing to negotiate, in fact they do everything they can to obstruct Palestine as showcased by their latest actions in the UN. There is no good side down there. They are both equally bad and equally willing in targeting the civilian population. No, they are not both equally as bad, Hamas aims at civilians and dosnt mind in the least when their own civilians die as its good PR and anyway they will get to heaven. Plenty times in this thread people have linked info and shown where Hamas fire from, keep their weapons and fire randomly in to population centers. If Israel were to fire a rockets randomly after each time it was hit then you could argue that they are equally as bad, Yes, you are equally bad. The retaliations of Israel are not exactly aimed at military targets, nor do you historically hold any moral highground considering how Israel practically invented terrorism themselves, assassinating amongst other an English diplomat in Egypt! And Israel, not Palestine, are the ones occupying illegally acquired land (as per the UN treaties) and are obstructing every single attempt by Palestine to get a platform on which to act politically thus making sure you can keep on oppressing the civilian population in Gaza. Sure you might not fire rockets at random, but you have done plenty of other stuff to warrant my statement. Your opinion is 1 sided and has been discussed several times in this thread, However you have no problem to compare Israel to those who use suicide bombers, hide weapons in civilian ares, indoctrate for killing the all the enemy and pushing them in to the sea. You ignore that pre-second intifada the situation in gaza was much better. And the cheery on top is claiming that the targeting of a British official (not a civilian) over 60 years by a group that has not existed for just as long is akin and comparable to modern crimes. You are welcome to your opinion but clearly there is no point in my arguing with you as your mind is made up and nothing will change it. sweet irony.... Jews, just like Arabs, hid weapons in immoral placesHaganah,the Irgun, and the Stern Gang, which operated against the British government and the Arabs in Palestine, used similar tactics to those implemented by Arab militants. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/jews-just-like-arabs-hid-weapons-in-immoral-places-1.339432
Yes, lets compare 60 years ago to today and forget that all the Jewish areas were civilian areas. They had no army bases and no government control unlike Hamas who have both and could easily choose not to fire rockets, store them, or hide in civilian areas yet choose to do all 3!
In adittion these weapons were mostly used by the jews to defend themselves from Arab muradurs, as the mandate did not allow jews to have weapons and had they not done so would have needed to wait for the British to save them from getting murdered.
|
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished.
|
My sympathies are with the Palestinians, but for the longest time, maybe since after Rabin died, I think it's just pointless and futile to have any peace agreement with the way things are geopolitically in that region. Palestinians live on Israeli soil. It is the equivalent of squirrels living next to a hawk's nest.
is it unrealistic for Palestinians to get the fuck out of West Bank, which is literally the world's largest open space prison, and for Israel to give up more land by the Gaza strip?
These people can not live with each other, but perhaps they can live next to each other just like other muslim nations.
|
On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished.
However at the moment, Hamas only represent the people of gaza and are only active from there. Hamas gain PR from this and more support from Iran/Muslim popular opinion, they will be weaker, gain nothing have alot more civilian deaths when this round of fighting is over and for them its a win/win situation due to the PR they get and people will support the underdog or the side with more civilian deaths.
|
On November 18 2012 18:31 DigiGnar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 17:03 heliusx wrote:On November 18 2012 16:37 DigiGnar wrote:On November 18 2012 16:15 oneofthem wrote:On November 18 2012 16:10 Craze wrote:On November 18 2012 16:03 HunterX11 wrote:On November 18 2012 14:56 DigiGnar wrote:
With this whole "giving land back", let's look at Texas and Mexico. Should America "give back" Texas? FUCK NO. Do you think that America should start bombing Mexico? After all, they pose a much greater threat to American citizens than Gazans do to Israelis, yet we haven't dropped a single bomb on them! Uh... what? dat drug trade. You don't think America wants Mexico to be fucked by the Zetas? There's also military experience to be gained. (This is an EXTREMELY unpopular opinion, but if you had to choose from a new recruit or a battle-hardened vet to fight for your life, who would you choose?) Also, the Zetas pose literally no threat to the safety of America. A very small amount may get caught in the cross fire, but the Zetas pose no threat. You're joking right? That's stupid. Do you know that America allows for poppy fields to grow in the Middle East? Did you know that Russia has a severe heroin problem? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/world/europe/23russia.htmlSo, why wouldn't it be possible for America to do the same to Mexico? Most things in the world are dictated by America, whether you like it or not. What you see in Israel is only a taste of what America is capable of. (Missile shield.) Also, again, who would you like to fight for you? Someone that has never seen combat, or someone that has? China understands this, as they fought in wars between other countries that they could've stayed out of entirely. It would be beyond fucking stupid to choose a fresh recruit over a battle-harded veteran.
Did you know the moon orbits the earth? Did you know the earth orbits the sun?
I still think your claim "america wants the zetas to fuck mexico" is retarded.
|
On November 18 2012 18:39 broz0rs wrote:
My sympathies are with the Palestinians, but for the longest time, maybe since after Rabin died, I think it's just pointless and futile to have any peace agreement with the way things are geopolitically in that region. Palestinians live on Israeli soil. It is the equivalent of squirrels living next to a hawk's nest.
is it unrealistic for Palestinians to get the fuck out of West Bank, which is literally the world's largest open space prison, and for Israel to give up more land by the Gaza strip?
These people can not live with each other, but perhaps they can live next to each other just like other muslim nations.
the conflict has never been about enough land but very specific land. An example is that 97% of the land claims were settled between Olmert and Abbas but the 3% left included certain areas of Jerusalem and around it that Abbas insisted on getting. (there were other unresolved issues.) Basically you are suggesting what the hawkish politician Avigdor Liberman is (exchange of population and territories) and its not something that the Palestinians will agree to.
|
On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished.
No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
|
On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are.
EDIT: In fact even Israel itself recognizes that it is currently occupying pieces of land to which it does not consider part of its territory.
|
Australia8532 Posts
On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are.
The settlements are ridiculous and I don't understand Israel's motivation; but do you honestly believe that is the barrier to peace? There was conflict before the settlements and there will be conflict after the settlements. Ceding land to the Palesitnians only led to more violence (Gaza.) There needs to be a bilateral agreement that guarantees safety
|
On November 18 2012 19:09 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. The settlements are ridiculous and I don't understand Israel's motivation; but do you honestly believe that is the barrier to peace? There was conflict before the settlements and there will be conflict after the settlements. Ceding land to the Palesitnians only led to more violence (Gaza.)
No I do not think the settlements are the key to peace. Honestly I do not think there will ever be peace before future generations get tired of the bloodshed and recognize the flaws in the argumentation of both sides of the conflict. Still then I think it would require for the entire region to become atheists before they would be able to settle Jerusalem.
|
On November 18 2012 19:11 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:09 bkrow wrote:On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. The settlements are ridiculous and I don't understand Israel's motivation; but do you honestly believe that is the barrier to peace? There was conflict before the settlements and there will be conflict after the settlements. Ceding land to the Palesitnians only led to more violence (Gaza.) No I do not think the settlements are the key to peace. Honestly I do not think there will ever be peace before future generations get tired of the bloodshed and recognize the flaws in the argumentation of both sides of the conflict. Still then I think it would require for the entire region to become atheists before they would be able to settle Jerusalem.
Up until the 90's the Palestinians wanted Hebron as their capital, only recently did Jerusalem become a issue.
|
On November 18 2012 19:12 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:11 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 19:09 bkrow wrote:On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. The settlements are ridiculous and I don't understand Israel's motivation; but do you honestly believe that is the barrier to peace? There was conflict before the settlements and there will be conflict after the settlements. Ceding land to the Palesitnians only led to more violence (Gaza.) No I do not think the settlements are the key to peace. Honestly I do not think there will ever be peace before future generations get tired of the bloodshed and recognize the flaws in the argumentation of both sides of the conflict. Still then I think it would require for the entire region to become atheists before they would be able to settle Jerusalem. Up until the 90's the Palestinians wanted Hebron as their capital, only recently did Jerusalem become a issue.
All-Palestine Government founded in 1948 claimed Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine.
EDIT: Also, to state the "Palestinians wanted" is kind of funny seeing how the state of Palestine was not formed until 1988....
EDIT2: In recognition of the wisdom in the post below, I am out.
|
These discussions are almost as sickening as the topic being discussed. Seriously, can we please try to maintain some civility and not call each other idiots or insult each other's intelligence. If there is no discussion to be had on ending the issue why the fuck are we discussing it at all. The discussion here is the same as the one pretty much 60 pages ago
|
On November 18 2012 19:20 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:12 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 19:11 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 19:09 bkrow wrote:On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. The settlements are ridiculous and I don't understand Israel's motivation; but do you honestly believe that is the barrier to peace? There was conflict before the settlements and there will be conflict after the settlements. Ceding land to the Palesitnians only led to more violence (Gaza.) No I do not think the settlements are the key to peace. Honestly I do not think there will ever be peace before future generations get tired of the bloodshed and recognize the flaws in the argumentation of both sides of the conflict. Still then I think it would require for the entire region to become atheists before they would be able to settle Jerusalem. Up until the 90's the Palestinians wanted Hebron as their capital, only recently did Jerusalem become a issue. All-Palestine Government founded in 1948 claimed Jerusalem as the capitol of Palestine.
Post 67 negotiations however and until the 90's didnt. Also in 48 they still wanted all of the territory. The point was to show the Jerusalem wasnt always a key issue and that each side has become more demanding instead of making compromises.
|
On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. EDIT: In fact even Israel itself recognizes that it is currently occupying pieces of land to which it does not consider part of its territory.
Everyone knows Israel is occupying pieces of land that's not part of it's territory. How does that Constitute "stealing"? Having lived on a piece of land does not constitute land ownership. You don't see the Germans telling everyone to give back their land crying about how they were stolen from. If you initiate a war and end up losing land and can't get it back, too bad so sad.
|
No solution is possible, because neither side trusts the other.
Trading land for peace is pointless when you don't trust the other side to keep its word. Give land to Hamas and you only bring them closer, the hatred machine will march on, indoctrinating children with the glory of suicide bombing.
A two-state solution is only an option when it brings an end to hostilities. As long as Israel can't trust the other side to keep that deal, they aren't going to give an inch.
Meanwhile, the other side will keep promising the world, and complain that Israel doesn't accept their generous offers.
A two-state solution is the end of the road, it isn't the solution to the problem.
|
On November 18 2012 19:39 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:04 Ghostcom wrote:On November 18 2012 18:50 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 18:36 Adreme wrote:
I dont like how Hamas is fighting against Israel but I sort of understand why they are doing it. There is no possible way for them to go head to head with a modern military so if they want to resist having Israel stealing there land (which they are by any persons view) they have to fight this way. The fundamental problem is that Jerusalem is a holy city for both sides and niether side can handle giving an edge so they just fight like this and nothing gets accomplished. No, they aren't. How are some people so close minded they can't even see the other side's point of view. That's beyond being biased, that's being an idiot. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The UN thinks they are - and the fact that the annexation of the Golan Heights as well as East Jerusalem has been recognized by zero other countries also kind of says they are. EDIT: In fact even Israel itself recognizes that it is currently occupying pieces of land to which it does not consider part of its territory. Everyone knows Israel is occupying pieces of land that's not part of it's territory. How does that Constitute "stealing"? Having lived on a piece of land does not constitute land ownership. You don't see the Germans telling everyone to give back their land crying about how they were stolen from. If you initiate a war and end up losing land and can't get it back, too bad so sad.
What about the settlements then? Or is your position that it's not Israel that's stealing the land but the settlers do it and Israel just tolerates this?
Actually there are Germans who do exactly that. But I really don't want to compare those guys to Palestinians because they now have a proper country to live in.
In other news Israel is being surgical again. Yeah let me guess Hamas must have hidden in the building, there is no reason for the IDF to hinder reporting from within Gaza, IDF wouldn't bomb journalists because the outcry would be too great or in a war shit happens (but we are still on moral high ground), right?
And again this is only to help you see why the IDF's actions are not perceived as simple defense and in no way does it validate action from Hamas against civilians (this needs to be written out in every post because otherwise the response appears to be "you say Israel is evil and Hamas is good!!!!!" even if that is nowhere implied).
Btw it is my believe that the moral value of criticizing your enemy is almost nothing compared to the moral value of criticizing yourself. Start on your side (where you can actually change stuff) and only then look at the others.
And it's bit late but as a response to Goozen from yesterday: It's very disheartening that all of Israels main parties have the same approach to this conflict, I didn't know that 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
