EPTI want to share this
Israel Bombs Palestine; Kills Hamas Leader - Page 45
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SaTuR
Chile18 Posts
I want to share this | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:34 nucleo wrote: they never had a sovereignty, it was never their capital. Yes it was their will to make it their capital but I didn't want to talk about that so I edited this part. | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:29 WhiteDog wrote: And you don't use civilians as meat shield either I suppose ? Your army is not righteous, it's an army, it's made to kill, stop dreaming. If you had bothered to check further, you would have seen that the two soldiers who have done that were punished and dishonorably discharged. Not only is it not a widespread phenomenon, it was also dealt with. But you're right, the IDF is an army and as such it -will- defend Israeli citizens. So don't expect Hamas to fire rockets at Israeli cities FOR EIGHT YEARS and the IDF to do nothing. Any other military would've wiped Gaza off the map after the first rocket. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 17 2012 02:40 DeepElemBlues wrote: I disagree that neither side is justified, and other than you, I haven't seen a single person who isn't on the Israel side say a single word critical of the poor oppressed genocidal anti-Semites, errr I mean the poor oppressed xenophobic fascists who kill their own all the time as a way to settle factional scores by accusing their enemies of "collaboration" with Israel, errr I mean the Palestinians. Oh please. No wonder you're being so obstinate. Do you really believe the people arguing with you are chanting "go go Hamas kill the evil Jews? You're justified so launch more rockets!" There are some idiots saying that, but neither WhiteDog nor Leporello nor anyone else that's reasonably intelligent believes Hamas should be launching rockets at Israel. It's just that this goes without saying because any sane person agrees that violence with civilian casualties is really, really bad. Most of the criticism levied at Israel is because they sometimes refuse to take the higher ground and have at times used less-than-appropriate methods to retaliate given their position in the situation. Many think those less than appropriate methods aren't justified. Edit: It doesn't help that Netanyahu seems intent on alienating the entire western world... | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:36 hooahah wrote: If you had bothered to check further, you would have seen that the two soldiers who have done that were punished and dishonorably discharged. Not only is it not a widespread phenomenon, it was also dealt with. But you're right, the IDF is an army and as such it -will- defend Israeli citizens. So don't expect Hamas to fire rockets at Israeli cities FOR EIGHT YEARS and the IDF to do nothing. Any other military would've wiped Gaza off the map after the first rocket. It doesn't matter that they have been punished, it's a war and those kind of things happen ALWAYS, ALL THE TIME, in wars. Check your fact straight, IDF is not righteous, IDF does not have any ethics, they are just here to kill. The IDF will never be Israel's solution, but you will never be mature enough to understand that. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:24 Leporello wrote: It's a constant cycle that people seek to reduce this to something completely dry and simple. No one is arguing about the right to self-defense. No one is arguing that Hamas is a terrorist organization. And nobody is arguing that killing civilians is wrong On November 17 2012 03:24 Leporello wrote: But invading Gaza? Wrecking homes of known innocents in the one of the most condense and poor populations on earth? Declaring that all the thousand+ people killed in these invasions -- or even the majority -- are terrorists, without any proof? That is what is argued, and the strawman responses are all the same. It's tiring, and I'm done. Hopefully Israel finishes the job and completely destroys Gaza quickly, as it seems the notion of discretion is to be completely forever disregarded. So they might as well. I'm open to suggestions on what Israel should do. Are you arguing that they should respond completely in-kind? that involves fire random, unguided rockets at civilian populations with the sole intent of killing innocents. Is that the plan? I'm not saying they should invade Gaza either, but at this point I personally think that it is up to the Palestinian people to differentiate the civilians from the terrorists. Israel *will* strike at something in response, and if there is no way for Israel to distinguish Civilians from Terrorists, then no such distinction will be made. Sure, its wrong, but it is also silly to presume something else will happen. Neither side is right in this debate, but honestly I don't know what people expect Israel to do. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On November 16 2012 05:25 DeepElemBlues wrote: Actually a majority of the deaths are males of combat age. From 2000-2007 94% of Palestinian casualties were male and 80% were adults. A massive majority are killed in street battles, some of which involved air strikes, but a massive majority are not killed in their homes by airstrikes. Still waiting on the source for this. You ran away from the thread as soon as I asked. Is that your strategy? You post lies until someone calls you out then leave the thread for 24 hours to resume? | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:38 WhiteDog wrote: It doesn't matter that they have been punished, it's a war and those kind of things happen ALWAYS, ALL THE TIME, in wars. Check your fact straight, IDF is not righteous, IDF does not have any ethics, they are just here to kill. The IDF will never be Israel's solution, but you will never be mature enough to understand that. I've served in the IDF during Cast Lead. I know more about the IDF and it's methods then you will ever know, not to mention that I also know - AND HAVE SEEN - to what lenghts the IDF will go to avoid unneccesary casualities. I can't convince you though, since you're so dead set on your way, which is cool. We'll agree to disagree, I won't bother responding to you anymore. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:44 heliusx wrote: Still waiting on the source for this. You ran away from the thread as soon as I asked. Is that your strategy? You post lies until someone calls you out then leave the thread for 24 hours to resume? It's bullshit, even the IDF considers that there were 400 civilians killed out of 1100 during the Gaza war of 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War On November 17 2012 03:45 hooahah wrote: I've served in the IDF during Cast Lead. I know more about the IDF and it's methods then you will ever know, not to mention that I also know - AND HAVE SEEN - to what lenghts the IDF will go to avoid unneccesary casualities. I can't convince you though, since you're so dead set on your way, which is cool. We'll agree to disagree, I won't bother responding to you anymore. The day a guy will convince me that an army can have ethics will not happen anytime soon I tell you. You are misleading yourself. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote: And nobody is arguing that killing civilians is wrong I'm open to suggestions on what Israel should do. Are you arguing that they should respond completely in-kind? that involves fire random, unguided rockets at civilian populations with the sole intent of killing innocents. Is that the plan? I'm not saying they should invade Gaza either, but at this point I personally think that it is up to the Palestinian people to differentiate the civilians from the terrorists. Israel *will* strike at something in response, and if there is no way for Israel to distinguish Civilians from Terrorists, then no such distinction will be made. Sure, its wrong, but it is also silly to presume something else will happen. Neither side is right in this debate, but honestly I don't know what people expect Israel to do. Maybe accept the 1948 borders? It's the least they should do actually, after all their actions against the peace of the Middle East. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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silynxer
Germany439 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote: And nobody is arguing that killing civilians is wrong I'm open to suggestions on what Israel should do. Are you arguing that they should respond completely in-kind? that involves fire random, unguided rockets at civilian populations with the sole intent of killing innocents. Is that the plan? I'm not saying they should invade Gaza either, but at this point I personally think that it is up to the Palestinian people to differentiate the civilians from the terrorists. Israel *will* strike at something in response, and if there is no way for Israel to distinguish Civilians from Terrorists, then no such distinction will be made. Sure, its wrong, but it is also silly to presume something else will happen. Neither side is right in this debate, but honestly I don't know what people expect Israel to do. I wonder if this moral of intend would still hold if Hamas did start to "assassinate" Israeli military targets in the same way Israel does (collateral damage in the 1000th)....... (that's not directed mainly at you but it seems the only way to defend Israel is arguing that the sole intend of killing people is actually worse than killing people) As to what Israel can do: when you make an agreement show any effort to hold it. Quite unlike they did in 2008 and quite unlike the Hamas who tried at least to hold their end in the bargain. Like I said before Israel has all the cards in their hand, they can give Hamas any kind of concessions and when Hamas fucks up they can take it away again without problem. Israel does not really need to trust the Hamas at this stage. Hamas on the other hand can do nothing else than to trust Israel, they don't have any option to convince Israel of anything (6 month ceasefire were only worth being attacked right after). How do you expect change to be initiated by Hamas? | ||
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mindjames
Israel433 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:38 WhiteDog wrote: It doesn't matter that they have been punished, it's a war and those kind of things happen ALWAYS, ALL THE TIME, in wars. Check your fact straight, IDF is not righteous, IDF does not have any ethics, they are just here to kill. The IDF will never be Israel's solution, but you will never be mature enough to understand that. Why are you guys still responding to this guy? This isn't the first thread he has posted this bigoted nonsense in, and it won't be the last. I got tired of him the last thread. And if a guy like zalz even gets tired of him, then I don't know why bother. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:55 RezJ wrote: Why are you guys still responding to this guy? This isn't the first thread he has posted this bigoted nonsense in, and it won't be the last. I got tired of him the last thread. And if a guy like zalz even gets tired of him, then I don't know why bother. There's nothing bigoted in that post. Why is go to Israeli defense to an argument "omg bigot anti semite". You realize being critical of a government has NOTHING to do with being a bigot. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:55 RezJ wrote: Why are you guys still responding to this guy? This isn't the first thread he has posted this bigoted nonsense in, and it won't be the last. I got tired of him the last thread. And if a guy like zalz even gets tired of him, then I don't know why bother. If you're going to accuse someone of being bigoted, can you at least explain why? Personal attacks like this do not help this thread in anyway and only lessen the discussion. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:55 RezJ wrote: Why are you guys still responding to this guy? This isn't the first thread he has posted this bigoted nonsense in, and it won't be the last. I got tired of him the last thread. And if a guy like zalz even gets tired of him, then I don't know why bother. Since when zalz is tired with people. People are tired with zalz is how things have always been. From his posts about how "anarchy" in some sub saharian african country is the best possible form of government to his rant on how muslims are all haters. | ||
Noam
Israel2209 Posts
On November 17 2012 03:38 WhiteDog wrote: IDF does not have any ethics, they are just here to kill. How many people did the leaflet kill? Or perhaps wounded? paper cuts you know.. | ||
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nucleo
292 Posts
id say alot of ppl fit into that :D How many people did the leaflet kill? Or perhaps wounded? paper cuts you know.. he already admitted that he cannot be convinced he is wrong on this. don't bother... | ||
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hitthat
Poland2311 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On November 17 2012 04:03 Noam wrote: How many people did the leaflet kill? Or perhaps wounded? paper cuts you know.. On November 17 2012 03:49 WhiteDog wrote: The day a guy will convince me that an army can have ethics will not happen anytime soon I tell you. You are misleading yourself. Don't cherry pick his statements. Read them as a whole to understand his opinion. | ||
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