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Could BW make a come back? - Page 9

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BearStorm
Profile Joined September 2010
United States795 Posts
October 04 2012 00:02 GMT
#161
Maybe if Blizzard decides to make a quick buck and make SCBW in HD
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
robopork
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States511 Posts
October 04 2012 01:21 GMT
#162
On October 03 2012 11:33 Pucca wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2012 11:21 Elite00fm wrote:
It would be great if they made a BW2, like how they made dota2.

They did, Thank MavericK he ported BW to StarCraft 2. You have StarCraft 2 mechanics with Brood War. Has its own ladder. Someone could possibly make a website that people upload their replays to, split out something similar to an ELO to get online ranking boards. So if people want to transition to BW2 there it is.


I was reading a thread on blizzards hots beta forum where a player was posting some ideas about incorporating old units. Dustin Browder posted a response that amounted to "We won't do this; if everyone wanted be units in sc2 why isn't there an sc classic mod that's ranked #1 on the arcade?"

For sc2's sake I'd love to see more people playing sc2bw or at least starbow.

But honestly my hope rests in another developer stepping up and making a high quality rts that's up to modern visual standards. It won't be bw, but I think it's possible to reincarnate some of what was beautiful about bw into a modern game, or at least do a better job of that than sc2 has.
“This left me alone to solve the coffee problem - a sort of catch-22, as in order to think straight I need caffeine, and in order to make that happen I need to think straight.”
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 02:37:36
October 04 2012 02:36 GMT
#163
Certainly. Of course a good and interesting RTS game could be made. Blizzard just failed. There's nothing magical about BW that can't be replicated. It would even be possible to make a game that's even better than BW. But it hasn't been done, and probably won't ever be done.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Dontkillme
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)806 Posts
October 04 2012 03:34 GMT
#164
On October 03 2012 10:53 Funnytoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2012 10:42 KazmA wrote:
Even with the rapid decline of BW as a professional sport, is it still possible for it rise up to were it once was before as an Esport? Many people have said that Sc2 pales in comparison to what BW was as a game and many pros are vocal about their favoritism towards BW over Sc2. Even with HOTS coming out and the development of SC2 is there enough support to eventually in some way rally around BW and start it up as a major Esport again? Obviously there are still professional leagues out there but nothing compared to what was in Korea. Personally I think that one day, if even for short period of time, BW could get back to the level it was at in the past. Maybe not in Korea but I do think that with a game as great as BW its just to much to ignore as a sport.


Without sponsorship, it's quite difficult to get back up to the level it was before, by which I mean prestigious tournaments, full house teams sponsored by rich corporations, and TV broadcasts. You have to think about where sponsors are coming from. Basically, they do it because they feel that it's a worthy form of advertising. For tech companies like Intel, their incentive is to back the newest game possible, as that allows them to sell more product. Sponsoring an old game (technologically) like BW might help create more positive feelings towards the company, but might not translate directly into additional sales like SC2 would (being that you might need newer computer equipment to run it, while BW can run on a microwaved brick). The cost-benefit analysis is key, and unless you can think of a way to convince corporations that sponsoring BW makes sense, over something that's flashier and more popular at the moment among customers that might *buy* their new gadgets... it's unlikely.

That said, I've been getting back into the game over the past few days, and while I'm absolutely terrible at the moment (struggling to even hold D-rank, actually), it's still a lot of fun. I think we'll see BW continue on for quite some time, in forms like SOSPA or the amateur competitions we're seeing now.



This. It will never return to its professional state like it did with the OSL, MSL, etc. But it will defenitly be a classic game everyone plays and remembers.
Bomber & Jaedong & FlaSh & SNSD <3
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 05:53:52
October 04 2012 05:41 GMT
#165
On October 04 2012 08:41 GGzerG wrote:
Maybe the StarCraft : Pheonix game that Blizzard is working on will be a BW remake, one can dream.


While I think it might be, it probably wouldn't include all the bugs that were such a big part of the original (or LAN), and would likely be an SC2'd version.

The advantage of BW's position now, is that it's all uphill from here. SC2 is going to collapse a little (RIP T8, welcome Liquid'Sea), but that doesn't really affect BW either way at this point.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
October 04 2012 06:08 GMT
#166
Blizzard needs to:

A: hold "classic" RTS show matches of both Brood War and WarCraft III at BlizzCon. For example, games like Flash vs Jaedong or Grubby vs Moon.

and

B: make an inhouse SC2: BW mod like MavericK's but with Blizzard's polish and expertise. If possible, do this with other classic games too such as WarCraft III.
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
October 04 2012 06:12 GMT
#167
On October 04 2012 06:57 Emon_ wrote:
Honestly, if we wanted we could make BW a viable online tournament game. All it would take is management, contributors and financial backing. The tournaments are already strong both korean and foreigner. We just need to polish the edges and it will be fine. Sonic SL is looking great - if we could get an english caster on this along with an observer that knows how to pace the game (There's a reason we don't watch every game from the first person view). This is our best hope for reviving BW.

Foreigner tournaments are abundant, as is the money being spread around. What's missing is management and marketing. A new blog with frequent updates about the scene (several times a day) with both results, analysis and trivia would do wonders for the scene. What we see now is an unfocused scatter of threads with good intentions, high ambitions but it always fails to build momentum. Remember when the korean pros dressed up as if to go on dates for the group selection? Didn't have much to do with the game but it's one of those stand-out moments in my mind that helped get to know the gamers as young men with ambitions and goals beside gaming.

While on the subject. Female supporters need to be attracted to any scene. SC2 is miserable because it fails horribly in this regard. BW had fangirls both for players and teams cheering the players on and following the game with excitement. If Jaedong miss-micros his mutalisks and loses one carelessly - you can hear them gasping for air and shrieking with despair. As well as the joy that comes from a lurker-ling-defiler attack from all sides on HBR. It gave male fans and progamers a sense of justification that they were being part of something unique and accepted. MKP and MVP are coming close to being regarded in this esteem. But no one else is coming close in SC2 and this is bad news. Cheerleaders from the big tournament sponsors are not gonna fix this situation. Having Khaldor and Incontrol geek out over details is entertaining, but it's nowhere near enough. It's just a sausage-fest right now. Appeal to female gamers will broaden the scene and introduce new people to the game. WoW does a great job at this and LoL too I believe. Another season of Liquibet won't cut it.

Lastly - a thing needs to be said about our champions. The gladiators that we cheer and scorn. They're investing a lot of time and should be justly compensated even if they don't take first place. This will encourage competition, instead of creating a domination by a few gamers while everyone else loses interest because life happens. Top 10 in a tournament should be evenly compensated with a slant toward #1 instead of the current 70% for 1st - 20% for 2nd and 10% for 3rd. Prize pools should be bigger and we should be donating more. 20$ a month from 100 fans will bring on great tournaments each month.

TL:DR - English cast Sonic SL and get observer without ADD, Make a new BW blog that's updated daily with results, interviews and trivia, find a way to get girls interested in BW, compensate all top tournament players not just winners.

I actually like the idea of donating small amounts and making regular tournaments with nice prizepool

community at its best !
T H C makes ppl happy
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28103 Posts
October 04 2012 06:26 GMT
#168
On October 04 2012 12:34 Dontkillme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2012 10:53 Funnytoss wrote:
On October 03 2012 10:42 KazmA wrote:
Even with the rapid decline of BW as a professional sport, is it still possible for it rise up to were it once was before as an Esport? Many people have said that Sc2 pales in comparison to what BW was as a game and many pros are vocal about their favoritism towards BW over Sc2. Even with HOTS coming out and the development of SC2 is there enough support to eventually in some way rally around BW and start it up as a major Esport again? Obviously there are still professional leagues out there but nothing compared to what was in Korea. Personally I think that one day, if even for short period of time, BW could get back to the level it was at in the past. Maybe not in Korea but I do think that with a game as great as BW its just to much to ignore as a sport.


Without sponsorship, it's quite difficult to get back up to the level it was before, by which I mean prestigious tournaments, full house teams sponsored by rich corporations, and TV broadcasts. You have to think about where sponsors are coming from. Basically, they do it because they feel that it's a worthy form of advertising. For tech companies like Intel, their incentive is to back the newest game possible, as that allows them to sell more product. Sponsoring an old game (technologically) like BW might help create more positive feelings towards the company, but might not translate directly into additional sales like SC2 would (being that you might need newer computer equipment to run it, while BW can run on a microwaved brick). The cost-benefit analysis is key, and unless you can think of a way to convince corporations that sponsoring BW makes sense, over something that's flashier and more popular at the moment among customers that might *buy* their new gadgets... it's unlikely.

That said, I've been getting back into the game over the past few days, and while I'm absolutely terrible at the moment (struggling to even hold D-rank, actually), it's still a lot of fun. I think we'll see BW continue on for quite some time, in forms like SOSPA or the amateur competitions we're seeing now.



This. It will never return to its professional state like it did with the OSL, MSL, etc. But it will defenitly be a classic game everyone plays and remembers.

Exactly, you both said what I thought
Administrator
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
October 04 2012 06:57 GMT
#169
Only in the form of Brood War 2: Return of the Reaver.
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 04 2012 07:12 GMT
#170
On October 04 2012 15:57 Black[CAT] wrote:
Only in the form of Brood War 2: Return of the Reaver.


Haha sounds like a shitty B horror movie lolol.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
borlee
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Liechtenstein246 Posts
October 04 2012 07:46 GMT
#171
On October 04 2012 15:12 Sinedd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2012 06:57 Emon_ wrote:
Honestly, if we wanted we could make BW a viable online tournament game. All it would take is management, contributors and financial backing. The tournaments are already strong both korean and foreigner. We just need to polish the edges and it will be fine. Sonic SL is looking great - if we could get an english caster on this along with an observer that knows how to pace the game (There's a reason we don't watch every game from the first person view). This is our best hope for reviving BW.

Foreigner tournaments are abundant, as is the money being spread around. What's missing is management and marketing. A new blog with frequent updates about the scene (several times a day) with both results, analysis and trivia would do wonders for the scene. What we see now is an unfocused scatter of threads with good intentions, high ambitions but it always fails to build momentum. Remember when the korean pros dressed up as if to go on dates for the group selection? Didn't have much to do with the game but it's one of those stand-out moments in my mind that helped get to know the gamers as young men with ambitions and goals beside gaming.

While on the subject. Female supporters need to be attracted to any scene. SC2 is miserable because it fails horribly in this regard. BW had fangirls both for players and teams cheering the players on and following the game with excitement. If Jaedong miss-micros his mutalisks and loses one carelessly - you can hear them gasping for air and shrieking with despair. As well as the joy that comes from a lurker-ling-defiler attack from all sides on HBR. It gave male fans and progamers a sense of justification that they were being part of something unique and accepted. MKP and MVP are coming close to being regarded in this esteem. But no one else is coming close in SC2 and this is bad news. Cheerleaders from the big tournament sponsors are not gonna fix this situation. Having Khaldor and Incontrol geek out over details is entertaining, but it's nowhere near enough. It's just a sausage-fest right now. Appeal to female gamers will broaden the scene and introduce new people to the game. WoW does a great job at this and LoL too I believe. Another season of Liquibet won't cut it.

Lastly - a thing needs to be said about our champions. The gladiators that we cheer and scorn. They're investing a lot of time and should be justly compensated even if they don't take first place. This will encourage competition, instead of creating a domination by a few gamers while everyone else loses interest because life happens. Top 10 in a tournament should be evenly compensated with a slant toward #1 instead of the current 70% for 1st - 20% for 2nd and 10% for 3rd. Prize pools should be bigger and we should be donating more. 20$ a month from 100 fans will bring on great tournaments each month.

TL:DR - English cast Sonic SL and get observer without ADD, Make a new BW blog that's updated daily with results, interviews and trivia, find a way to get girls interested in BW, compensate all top tournament players not just winners.

I actually like the idea of donating small amounts and making regular tournaments with nice prizepool

community at its best !

i'd definatly pay 20$ a month!
nighcol
Profile Joined January 2012
298 Posts
October 04 2012 09:11 GMT
#172
I think it would be absolutely amazing if it could and if it did happen by the community organising regular donations. A voluntary model without a product to sell like in the leagues you pay to see or to have better quality enables everyone to enjoy the content and makes it possible to use even very liberal licensing.

Even more importantly it means that anyone wishing to support can donate as much as they want. Those that would not normally subscribe because it is too expensive can chip in and those that want to give more can do that. I think there's a small possibility that such a thing could work if the BW community could offset it's small size by being so passionate that they give enough.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
October 04 2012 09:12 GMT
#173
On October 04 2012 11:36 vOdToasT wrote:
Certainly. Of course a good and interesting RTS game could be made. Blizzard just failed. There's nothing magical about BW that can't be replicated. It would even be possible to make a game that's even better than BW. But it hasn't been done, and probably won't ever be done.


I mean, there's us. We could just....do it. Make a simple game that holds to the core of what made BW fun, but with an original IP, and (once it had reached the limits of what could be done by amateurs in their spare time), kickstart it into a real game. I don't know why we need to wait for a big company to bail us out.
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 10:42:01
October 04 2012 10:37 GMT
#174
In this current age there is just no place for a game like BW. Korea was a miracle, Brood War was at the right place at the right time.

Look all the games getting released nowdays, each becoming more and more causal friendly, becouse the masses just figured it out, they can play games in their freetime, it dosen't make them bad people. A generation of gamers grown up to become an adults, whos played games in 80s, 90s. The world is changing.

And now again look at all the new games. Lets count how many RTS game is out there. If something dosen't happen really soon, the genre has no future. And now, in this era, you trying to make BW return and become mainstream again? Good luck.

I grown up watching this game, but you have to look trough the vanilia skies and realize that the gaming population changed so much. Even Vavle wouldn't do an BW2, they made Dota becouse Dota itself ( the old w3 mod ) is still frickin popular, but what about BW? Sc2 numbers are half or less compared to Dota2 or LoL numbers. And then BW streams with less than 1000 watchers.

BW is amazing, no doubt the best RTS game ever created. Sc2 is a farcry compared to it and even Sc2 beats any other RTS game. There is just no market. Plus, i still hope, Blizzard can do something with Sc2 and polish it a bit more. HotS is definitely right way, but the game still feels "bad" compared to the old brother
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
October 04 2012 11:11 GMT
#175
@Darksoldier Valve wouldn't do a bw2 because they fear they will get copy right infringement from blizzard.
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 12:34:02
October 04 2012 12:29 GMT
#176
On October 04 2012 20:11 Sawamura wrote:
@Darksoldier Valve wouldn't do a bw2 because they fear they will get copy right infringement from blizzard.


Well, probably we will never know, but i highly doubt thats the sole reason, they didn't made an RTS instead of a Dota game
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
DreamChaser
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
1649 Posts
October 04 2012 14:29 GMT
#177
On October 04 2012 05:59 jackdavis486 wrote:
Perhaps they should just remake BW as close as they possible can just with modern graphics. Mind you I am not a programmer so idk about the technicalities behind this. But I would like to see it.


I believe there is a SC2 custom map that emulates is bw? I don't know how good it is at all i have just heard of it.
Plays against every MU with nexus first.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
October 04 2012 15:09 GMT
#178
Nope, it can't.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3711 Posts
October 04 2012 15:11 GMT
#179
I think if the custom map would have come out right now it may have become highly popular, especially in korea. But when it first came out everyone who wanted to stick to bw could still easily do it, especially due to the proscene still being a live, now that it's gone there is no real hype surrounding sc2bw and a lot of people who switch now don't even know about it.
If someone would make a decent website for english speaking and korean players, which would track leaderboards and has an option to upload replays, there may be a chance.
Either that or someone down the road will make a real bw2 in some form or another.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
October 04 2012 15:23 GMT
#180
On October 04 2012 19:37 Darksoldierr wrote:
In this current age there is just no place for a game like BW. Korea was a miracle, Brood War was at the right place at the right time.

Look all the games getting released nowdays, each becoming more and more causal friendly, becouse the masses just figured it out, they can play games in their freetime, it dosen't make them bad people. A generation of gamers grown up to become an adults, whos played games in 80s, 90s. The world is changing.




This game sold 20,000+ copies day one, despite not being advertised on XBLA properly.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14293468/homestuck-adventure-game

This webcomic raised $2.5 million dollars in a month to get turned into an adventure game

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts?ref=live

This RTS did nearly as well



This was kind of a success, too.

Fuck the masses.

"The masses" have never been less relevant to the conversation. We're in the world of the niches, now.
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