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On October 03 2012 11:33 Pucca wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 11:21 Elite00fm wrote:
It would be great if they made a BW2, like how they made dota2. They did, Thank MavericK he ported BW to StarCraft 2. You have StarCraft 2 mechanics with Brood War. Has its own ladder. Someone could possibly make a website that people upload their replays to, split out something similar to an ELO to get online ranking boards. So if people want to transition to BW2 there it is.
It has way to many bugs. I mean in theory if he keeps working on it it should eventually be up to standards, but it's just no there yet. I mean for instance I'm sure walling doesn't work right the last I've played it anything with anything is tight right now which is pretty important considering PvZ and after all of the *obvious* things are implemented he still has to do the minior like muta glaves bounce priority etc etc.
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On October 03 2012 12:05 Pucca wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 12:03 Hesmyrr wrote:Honestly I am actually more interested in how Starbow would turn out rather than SC2BW. If I want to play BW, I can play BW with minimum inconveninence. But then I never payed much attention to that mod so maybe it has more to offer than (arguably) graphics improvement. It changes the mechanics of brood war significantly Bio is viable now in TvP if you go vessel and tank. Starbow is good, however that needs to be balanced I believe, have not played it for that long but I'd have to assume. As well as players just wanted a direct port not a mixture of the games.
Well I believe he is changing the AI soo once that is changed Vessel/tank/bio shouldn't be viable in TvP.
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On October 03 2012 12:22 Anomarad wrote:
BW2 needs to be standalone and not on Battle.net. Props to the mod creator but there will never be a "scene" for that.
Exactly it's to inconvinient. If somebody hacked this and made a server that would run actual ladder for it that would work (but it wouldn't because Blizzard would shut it down.)
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On October 03 2012 12:48 Pucca wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 12:22 Anomarad wrote:
BW2 needs to be standalone and not on Battle.net. Props to the mod creator but there will never be a "scene" for that. I'd challenge that. What was DOTA? A custom WC3 mod that became uber popular. If BW players are willing to take the leap away from this ancient game I think it could kick-off. Not to say this ancient game is good or anything but... Just a suggestion that people should consider.
Pucca what you don't understand is that WC3 was hackable and servers like ICCUP were set for it like BW and you are able to have an actual ladder for it (DOTA ladder). while everything has to be run through SC2 blizzard servers which kind of kills any possibilty of this being anything more than just a fun Mod.
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On October 03 2012 14:23 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 12:48 Pucca wrote:On October 03 2012 12:22 Anomarad wrote:
BW2 needs to be standalone and not on Battle.net. Props to the mod creator but there will never be a "scene" for that. I'd challenge that. What was DOTA? A custom WC3 mod that became uber popular. If BW players are willing to take the leap away from this ancient game I think it could kick-off. Not to say this ancient game is good or anything but... Just a suggestion that people should consider. Pucca what you don't understand is that WC3 was hackable and servers like ICCUP were set for it like BW and you are able to have an actual ladder for it (DOTA ladder). while everything has to be run through SC2 blizzard servers which kind of kills any possibilty of this being anything more than just a fun Mod.
I heard that Blizzard is planning on having some kind of matchmaker for custom games in their Arcade system, or at least for Blizzard DotA. They talked about it at Blizzcon. Afaik, it's not implemented yet, but maybe it's still a possibility down the road and could be good for some SC2BW or Starbow custom games so that noobs don't get stomped so easily.
And I think the online/streaming scene for amateur BW could be promising. There is already SOSPA as well as some other leagues in China and internationally. Who knows how much this scene could escalate in the future.
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BW static game? Lol... in its last seasons Fantasy used SV as his imrovement of TvT mech...
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Could have put more effort in the OP. What it took you like, 3 1/2 minutes?
Yes, BW could in the future make a comeback as a professional Esports. For sure it keeps on moving as an amateur one.
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On October 03 2012 10:59 Kal_rA wrote:
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW.
Same thoughts.
I wonder if TL has enough users who can volunteer some money and effort to make it happen?
Let's do this, at least for 1 tournament.
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On October 03 2012 11:02 Pucca wrote:
There is no point for a professional scene. BW is old. Graphics are [i[very dated. We can hope for the best but in reality I believe it won't happen. StarCraft 2 is more interesting in my opinion as it still evolving. Brood War I hate to say to be is static. You know people tend to execute the same build orders over and over again of course there is some deviation but not to the extent you get with the StarCraft 2.
Also on a side of watching because I'm mainly a viewer not a player StarCraft 2 looks and sounds very nice. I love the casters for SC2, the production value of some events like the GSL GSTL is crazy good. There is big money rewards for winning tournaments for players as well. Would I rather practice for days / months to win 500$ from GC or would I rather win 50,000$ from one of the four seasons of IPL? Would I rather practice on a ladder that I auto-match makes me within 30 seconds or shorter or wait in a game lobby up to 20 minutes to get into a BW game.
I also like the ability to cheer US players back at home as well. I like the Korean Scene but when I see SeleCt or Machine play I always cheer for them. Like they represent the USA in some way. I guess you could argue that Bakuryu has the same feel on Germans, I don't know but I don't get this feeling from BW.
As for your point to relive Brood War. If you want to have it "rise up to were it once was before as an eSport" do something about it. Help out with the community and help organize tournaments help raise cash for tournaments if its something you want to see. Generally this is the point where people will look the other way and either continue to practice because they hope there will be another tournament or you get someone like Eywa- who goes around all of Europe getting sponsors for his huge Winter 2013 tournament. This is an extreme case, he is one person. I believe, if you had as devoted fans as he was Brood War might become once it was but I think there is a minimal possibility that this would happen.
EDIT: Also time zones are yucky to meet up with players for matches. [/i]
When you said that BroodWar is "static" I wanted to stop reading right away.. what a bullshit lol
There is no other game.. NO OTHER GAME that has this amount of different strategies developed trough the years that you can use.. THERE ARE TONS OF IT and they all depend on the map, the player etc.. the fuck are you talking about lol..
as for the SC2 looking and sounding nice... idk about you but me and (i think that many many more, even the pros - couple of days ago I heard TLO saying it) BW has the best sounds ever, it sounds so much better than SC2... as for the graphics.. it is a rts game.. it doesnt need shiny, amazing graphics to be good.. + ! there were many voices that when the giant battles in SC2 occure, even gosu players dont know exactly whats going on.. its because of 3D graphics.. in BW - you didnt have this problem, everything was clearly visible. So its a better spectator sport, by far. (again - many many people saying this, especially in korea)
I dont want to sound like Im bashing SC2.. Im not.. i watch it pretty often too, and some of the games are rather interesting. But BW is so much better at many many levels.. and lastly - As for the money - SC2 came up in 2010, when esports fame was pretty much settled, there were many sponsors, and big ones, so SC2 just hopped in and bam ! while BW on the other hand, was played at times when esports was only growing.. thats why it had small amount of money or no money whatsoever.. yet, people still played and enjoyed it.. what happened with it ? everything has to be done for the moneyzzzzz now ? sad..
But I agree with you on the - you want it to succeed - help ! - part
we all need to help BW  we have an awesome community, this is an awesome game - im sure that we can do it and the BW train is gonna be going for a long long time to come ! 
BW FOREVER !!!!!!!!
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On October 03 2012 14:16 1a2a3a[MB] wrote:
China is the only hope right now is BW underground prime enjoy it now...
I would love to, but the access is pretty blocked you know..
Like always with all chinese esport scenes
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When practically the only map people play forever and ever is FS, of course you'll have people think that the game is stagnating. Play some new maps dammit
Anyways, It's early to say, but I believe it can.
In Korea, I'd say it's safe to say that it fell to it's lowest point but is growing from that point once again. There's still definitely money in the scene, albeit not as much. Sonic announced that he had already secured a sponsor willing to put up 15mil won for the next SSL, which doesn't include the money Sonic will put in himself and other secondary sponsors. Not only that, but SOSPA Proleague will keep the teamleague spirit alive in Korea with sponsored teams and salaried players.
I guess it really depends on how well the amateur scene can continue to grow in Korea. Sonic has said that he is looking for other people to help him grow the scene and find new talent for BW, so it depends on how successful that measure is. If that can work, combined with Sonic's passion for the game, I believe that BW can make the comeback in Korea.
What the other concern is the foreign scene. I think things like D Rank leagues are a great measure to help get newcomers to keep playing and bring in new talent. But that alone won't be enough, there needs to be more resources to help newcomers learn the game, and for people to actively show their passion for the games to their friends to bring them in. Both I think are extremely important for the foreign scene to continue to grow.
Anyways, I'm feeling rather optimistic for BW .. I will do what I can to help
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On October 03 2012 15:29 Le French wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 10:59 Kal_rA wrote:
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW. Same thoughts. I wonder if TL has enough users who can volunteer some money and effort to make it happen? Let's do this, at least for 1 tournament.
That would be so sick. A TL community sponsored tournament for best of the remaining BW players. I feel like this should be a thing.
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On October 03 2012 15:42 KazmA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 15:29 Le French wrote:On October 03 2012 10:59 Kal_rA wrote:
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW. Same thoughts. I wonder if TL has enough users who can volunteer some money and effort to make it happen? Let's do this, at least for 1 tournament. That would be so sick. A TL community sponsored tournament for best of the remaining BW players. I feel like this should be a thing.
There is a number of events running elaready for top foeregners. Look at GC, and there is the swedish Broodwar initiative.
There is also going to be a Lan next spring with a prize pool of 18 000 dollars open to Foreigners.
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With the way SC2 is I'd be glad if it did make a comeback.
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On October 03 2012 15:47 pebble444 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 15:42 KazmA wrote:On October 03 2012 15:29 Le French wrote:On October 03 2012 10:59 Kal_rA wrote:
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW. Same thoughts. I wonder if TL has enough users who can volunteer some money and effort to make it happen? Let's do this, at least for 1 tournament. That would be so sick. A TL community sponsored tournament for best of the remaining BW players. I feel like this should be a thing. There is a number of events running elaready for top foeregners. Look at GC, and there is the swedish Broodwar initiative. There is also going to be a Lan next spring with a prize pool of 18 000 dollars open to Foreigners.
Yeah but a grass roots kind of tournament put together by TL community members would be pretty sweet.
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Personally I feel that eSports is currently not large enough that games such as BW can be played. In my own perfect little world, I feel that in 10 or so years such an opportunity might come up again, but for this to happen eSports has to become larger than it currently is.
Currently eSports is supported financially through sponsors and game-sales which in turn are fueled mostly by the number of viewers. The more viewers an event can potentially attract, the more lucrative it will be for sponsors and the game's developer as it creates advertising and promotes game-sales. This means that eSports games currently should have extra elements other than just gameplay to make it watchable for casuals and viewers that are not specifically playing the games themselves. This is seen in StarCraft II (don't get me wrong: I really like SC2 and play it a lot): to me personally its gameplay is inferior to SC1, but "fancy graphics" and all that stuff makes it a perfect spectator sport.
Now assume that eSports eventually becomes large enough that games are broadcasted on TV on a regular basis (not just in Korea). In such a case the need to attract casuals and non-competitive players are a bit less and "fancy graphics" plays less of a role and gameplay more. If by that time, if SC2 has run its course and-or a successor to the RTS eSports niche hasn't filled its spot, there might be a possibility of a resurgence.
Now the only way such a scenario will occur is if current "big" eSports games, such as SC2 are successful enough and receives enough support to further eSports and make it larger than it currently is.
Just a couple of my thoughts - I know it's farfetched, but a man can dream
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SC2 needs to die first. and it'd have to die in a miracle way so that it'd go back to its predcessor
Very, very unlikely
But so very sad 
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Depends upon the level of your expectations. BW's not going to be able to sponser 12 teams of full-time players making decent wages off it again any time in the near future, but it definately has a lot of room to grow, and have at least a few sizable tournaments a year. And from there, try to have a few more the next year. We should stop worrying about recapturing the old magic, and just try to get bigger and bigger.
You know what would be a good idea, actually? Someone with a trusted reputation for hosting tournaments should do a Kickstarter for a BW tournament. That kind of thing seems to work really well for the small-but-dedicated fanbases out there, of which BW is one. There are a lot of people who want to sponsor BW, but don't have enough money to sponsor a tournament themselves. I bet we could Kickstart up a tournament of, say, $1000 pretty easily, actually. Maybe even $2,500. And then we have a show to put on, and all the BW fans can go out and hype it the way SC2 fans can get insufferable about their game. Get some fans, maybe sell some T-shirts or something. Do it again a few months later with a slightly larger fanbase, and smaller tournaments keeping the scene afloat.
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On October 03 2012 13:10 jalstar wrote:
Short answer: "No, because BW doesn't sell hardware."
Long answer: In mainstream gaming's eyes, SC2 IS BW. To someone who wasn't a huge BW fan, SC2 is the same game with better graphics and a better interface. That's also the reason why a BW style or copy mod will never replace SC2, mainstream gamers already see SC2 as a copy of BW, the most common complaint in SC2 reviews was that it felt like the same game as BW. Also BW history is essentially SC2 history in most people's eyes with Koreans dominating both games.
You might mention the mechanics gap but compared to most games SC2 has an impossibly high skill cap, so most people won't get the point of BW having an even higher skill cap. If you don't believe all of this go read r/gaming or even r/starcraft sometimes, or talk to non-RTS gamers. In most people's minds, there aren't two games, there's one game called Starcraft, and they don't understand why you'd play the version from 1998.
Yeah, you pretty much nail it down.
For someone who read a lot of website, most gamers that are not in SC community (of either game) pretty much views SC2 as too similar to BW, outdated rts mechanic and only interested in SC2 mostly because of the story. Couple with no hardware promotion available with BW, there's no reason for a big sponsor in the foreign scene to pour in money anymore.
But yeah, for non-SC community, SC2 = BW, even though it is very very very wrong.
Also, the current trend is also shifting from RTS games toward MOBA (LoL and DOTA2). So even if SC2 dies, the scene would just fully shift and support LoL and DOTA2 instead.
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EPT
