EPTOn October 03 2012 10:59 Kal_rA wrote:
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW.
If I ever become a billionaire, I vow to sponsor the shit out of Korean BW.
I will also take this vow.
Could BW make a come back? - Page 2
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
I will also take this vow. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Me three. + Show Spoiler + It's really not much of a bow to make when you are a billionare.  | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On October 03 2012 12:03 Hesmyrr wrote: Honestly I am actually more interested in how Starbow would turn out rather than SC2BW. If I want to play BW, I can play BW with minimum inconveninence. But then I never payed much attention to that mod so maybe it has more to offer than (arguably) graphics improvement. I'd rather just play the Classic Broodwar, I'm not playing it for the graphics in the first place. | ||
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Anomarad
Canada565 Posts
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S2Glow
Singapore1042 Posts
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Pucca
Taiwan1280 Posts
On October 03 2012 12:22 Anomarad wrote: BW2 needs to be standalone and not on Battle.net. Props to the mod creator but there will never be a "scene" for that. I'd challenge that. What was DOTA? A custom WC3 mod that became uber popular. If BW players are willing to take the leap away from this ancient game I think it could kick-off. Not to say this ancient game is good or anything but... Just a suggestion that people should consider. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On October 03 2012 12:22 Anomarad wrote: BW2 needs to be standalone and not on Battle.net. Props to the mod creator but there will never be a "scene" for that. Unless Valve makes it, like they did with DotA 2... | ||
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Anomarad
Canada565 Posts
On October 03 2012 12:48 Pucca wrote: I'd challenge that. What was DOTA? A custom WC3 mod that became uber popular. If BW players are willing to take the leap away from this ancient game I think it could kick-off. Not to say this ancient game is good or anything but... Just a suggestion that people should consider. DOTA was a game that could be played without buying WC3. | ||
Falling
Canada11349 Posts
Maybe but getting away from Battlenet 2.0 latency and back to lan latency could do wonders to micro opportunities. Just looking at a couple Starbow videos, the truly spectacular micro tricks don't seem to be present. It does look nice without the redundant meat shields that is roaches and marauders. As to the actual question, a resurgence to the heyday will probably never happen. But it could make a small comeback. One can always hope. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
Long answer: In mainstream gaming's eyes, SC2 IS BW. To someone who wasn't a huge BW fan, SC2 is the same game with better graphics and a better interface. That's also the reason why a BW style or copy mod will never replace SC2, mainstream gamers already see SC2 as a copy of BW, the most common complaint in SC2 reviews was that it felt like the same game as BW. Also BW history is essentially SC2 history in most people's eyes with Koreans dominating both games. You might mention the mechanics gap but compared to most games SC2 has an impossibly high skill cap, so most people won't get the point of BW having an even higher skill cap. If you don't believe all of this go read r/gaming or even r/starcraft sometimes, or talk to non-RTS gamers. In most people's minds, there aren't two games, there's one game called Starcraft, and they don't understand why you'd play the version from 1998. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 03 2012 11:02 Pucca wrote: There is no point for a professional scene. BW is old. Graphics are [very dated. We can hope for the best but in reality I believe it won't happen. StarCraft 2 is more interesting in my opinion as it still evolving. Brood War I hate to say to be is static. You know people tend to execute the same build orders over and over again of course there is some deviation but not to the extent you get with the StarCraft 2. I'm sorry but I really disagree with everything in this paragraph. I'll break it down why. There is no point for a professional scene. Maybe point isn't the word you intended to use, but the "point" is quite obviously and is the same it has always been: entertainment. BW is old. Graphics are [very dated Okay, this is actually pretty true; though I do feel the graphics are in many ways cleaner and possibly more visually appealing than SC2. Yes, I'm certainly in the minority on this. StarCraft 2 is more interesting in my opinion as it still evolving. Brood War I hate to say to be is static. Total Bullshit. BW isn't even close to static, and I would think you would have known better. This is usually the kind of statement SC2 players that are completely ignorant of BW make. The game is in constant flux and new strategies, builds, and play-styles are continuously emerging. Some of it is due to changing maps, but much of it is due to just figuring out new and more effective ways to play in general. I think you said you haven't watched korean BW much so perhaps that's why you were thinking this. To quote Ver here is a list of changes for ONE proleague season and ONE race (terran): For Terran alone (listing general systems, not the absurd amount of variations): TvZ- Safe 14cc on 2 player maps a dozen different variations of bio -> mech and vice versa with a lot more room for further exploration (this is huge!) Flexible Valkyrie first openings that can transition into many different possibilities A totally new approach vs 2 hatch muta with aggressive marine pushes (changes a lot) 7 Rax (and overlord snipes from it) 4 rax -> triple port wraith 2 rax acad allins 3rd denial vs 3 hatch muta (very unexplored and complex) 2 base allin vs crazy zerg (3 hatch muta to ultra) Revolutionary lategame defense based off of aggressive vessel raids, covering infantry, and massed tanks (probably the biggest change in years along with bio-mech transitions) 12pool Lair with a very different and expansive early/midgame Improvements on overall mech play (several new midgame options) Heavy and consistent Vulture/Valkyrie!? (totally unexplored) TvP- Many different 3 base timings Many variations in the 2 fact after cc system both from siege expand and from FD 12 Nexus variations and emphasis 1 fact mine double expand in response to 12 Nexus New midgame Carrier transition ideas both before and after arbiters Rax Expand!! (a huge system with tons more exploration but right now there are many variations already) Ver didn't even post about TvT which has also seen many changes (such as mass wraith play). | ||
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Falling
Canada11349 Posts
Okay, this is actually pretty true; though I do feel the graphics are in many ways cleaner and possibly more visually appealing than SC2. Yes, I'm certainly in the minority on this. Actually I think there's something to this. BW could use higher definition to create a sharper image on large screens. However, I don't think a graphic style necessarily becomes obsolete anymore than I think Pixar style animation makes traditional animation obsolete. It's simply different. (This is a view held by Pixar animators by the way- they see their success more to do with successfuly storytelling than a graphics update. Whereas Disney saw the success of Pixar as strictly a graphics update... and then crashed and burned when their stories continued to suck even when using what they thought was the modern approach to animation. Pixar didn't suddenly obsolete Lion King or Tarzan. They remain strong films to this day.) A strong graphics style doesn't date itself and I do think there is something appealing about a cleaner/ less cluttered style. | ||
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asiantraceur
United States94 Posts
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
On October 03 2012 13:10 jalstar wrote: Short answer: "No, because BW doesn't sell hardware." Long answer: In mainstream gaming's eyes, SC2 IS BW. To someone who wasn't a huge BW fan, SC2 is the same game with better graphics and a better interface. That's also the reason why a BW style or copy mod will never replace SC2, mainstream gamers already see SC2 as a copy of BW, the most common complaint in SC2 reviews was that it felt like the same game as BW. Also BW history is essentially SC2 history in most people's eyes with Koreans dominating both games. You might mention the mechanics gap but compared to most games SC2 has an impossibly high skill cap, so most people won't get the point of BW having an even higher skill cap. If you don't believe all of this go read r/gaming or even r/starcraft sometimes, or talk to non-RTS gamers. In most people's minds, there aren't two games, there's one game called Starcraft, and they don't understand why you'd play the version from 1998. Too fucking sad because it's true. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On October 03 2012 13:16 L_Master wrote: I'm sorry but I really disagree with everything in this paragraph. I'll break it down why. Maybe point isn't the word you intended to use, but the "point" is quite obviously and is the same it has always been: entertainment. Okay, this is actually pretty true; though I do feel the graphics are in many ways cleaner and possibly more visually appealing than SC2. Yes, I'm certainly in the minority on this. Total Bullshit. BW isn't even close to static, and I would think you would have known better. This is usually the kind of statement SC2 players that are completely ignorant of BW make. The game is in constant flux and new strategies, builds, and play-styles are continuously emerging. Some of it is due to changing maps, but much of it is due to just figuring out new and more effective ways to play in general. I think you said you haven't watched korean BW much so perhaps that's why you were thinking this. To quote Ver here is a list of changes for ONE proleague season and ONE race (terran): Ver didn't even post about TvT which has also seen many changes (such as mass wraith play). I'd like to add some more recent developments for Zerg. ZvT: Guardians have become standard Queens have become standard There is a new build that gives the best of both 3 hatch muta and 2 hatch muta. You get the speed of 2 hatch muta with the amount of mutas from 3 hatch muta. The standard way of dealing with mech is now lurker defiler. This is new, and is much better than older methods. ZvP: Defensive styles that forego ultralisks. You take the map and hold it, harassing the Protoss army with defilers (using plague), massing lurkers all over the place, taking the middle expansion on fighting spirit, and even getting guardians. (As well as devourers if the Protoss still has corsairs) The standard, most cookie cutter, vanilla, way to play ZvP is now completely different than it was 1 - 2 years ago (and at that time, it was completely different than it was 1 - 2 years before that). It no longer involves going 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra, with mass hydras + mutalisks to snipe templars. Now, it's more lurker ling hydra, with eventual defilers being added. | ||
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
That is change. That is more change than has occurred in the entire dual-game-bullshit league. | ||
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EffervescentAureola
United States410 Posts
Without the Korean pro scene all you have are a bunch of foreigners and semipro Koreans who are not nearly at the level of the top BW Progamers. The most important fact is that BW has no young blood, meaning all the BW players are getting older and no young players are playing this game and aspiring to be the next great BW player. To summarize, BW players level has gone way down due to the best Korean players switching to sc2, no great players = no new skills, tactics, ideas. In other words without having real talent in the scene anymore, it's bound to get stale. Also BW players in general are getting older, because the people who still play BW are veterans and are getting older, and no new young players are interested in BW. Therefore there is no investment of up and coming talent, without that you can't have progress. | ||
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glzElectromaster
Japan2474 Posts
On October 03 2012 13:42 freakhill wrote: Can't see how it would happen. There is no new broodwar generation. It's unfortunate. I'm in high school and just recently started playing BW. I tried convincing some of my friends, but none of them are really inclined for it. Probably a lesser chance in Korea where playing BW was mainstream at one point, a resurgence would be like resurgence of Hula Hoop. | ||
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1a2a3a[MB]
United States297 Posts
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