EPTTvP Lategame comment from Blizzard - Page 54
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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convention
United States622 Posts
On May 06 2012 14:44 jkos86 wrote: The micromechanic for chargelots is a really good idea. Reverting ghosts, immortals and upgrade costs are also good ideas. To those saying "statistically terran has been top bla bla bla" statistics can easily be skewed and taken out of context. How about terran was the top of the ladder because all the best players played terran? Blizzard balances the races based on statistics but dont take into account that the 3 races may not have an equal spread of skilled players. Look back at last year and look at the code S protosses they were protosses like hongeun, killer, trickster, san, that homersimpson dude from prime. They were mediocre players at best and apart from MC pretty much have fallen off. Inca got demolished by nestea the most one sided finals ever. So trying to balance based on statistics is just giving lesser skilled players unfair advantages. Protoss players are the slowest and their metagame has been painfully slow ( last year i was protoss and there were no good protosses to copy builds from. Ive since changed to terran and terran players are just superior in almost every sense). The balancing needs to be based off of GAME KNOWLEDGE not statistics. Poor work. Yeah, but now look at code S, it's mostly protoss in the Round of 4. That shows that the best players just play protoss now. In fact, since it wasn't 8 protoss in the round of 8, and the protoss are clearly the best players, I think protoss needs a buff. | ||
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Alaiz
France118 Posts
On May 06 2012 15:06 HolyArrow wrote: IMO the suggestion that a key activates Charge for Chargelots actually makes Chargelots easier to use. From what I see in lots of high-level TvPs, Toss's problem with Chargelots is actually having Charge activate when they're not ready to engage, thus wasting it and having to wait for the cooldown. Having to activate Charge with a key press similar to Stim would solve this problem xD I absolutely agree with you. And i think it will make the protoss race a little bit less "herp derp a-click, TTT, profit". In fact we have even harder micro, we need to get a better concave and spread like MKP our bio army, EMP 10 times to get sure that all the Archons get hit a least 2 or 3 times (herp EMP only does 100 damage in a small radius, and Archons got 350 and a got f*cking huge ground place) or snipe, activate stimpack and stutter step, while controlling those vikings. Things goes greatly harder if you include a Raven for PDD or Seeker missile, cause we need a lot of mastery in control groups... I think there are some imbalance aspect that has to be studied. Because we Terrans need to be 10 times better than the Protosses (like having 120 APM while the P has only 45) to get in even terms... | ||
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qB3 ENS
United States14 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
On May 06 2012 11:13 Badfatpanda wrote: Not much, I just got upset when what he wrote was such high horse nonsense that I corrected him. I don't like to take part in these balance whine threads because I think the game is in a very good spot at the moment. On May 06 2012 11:15 psychotics wrote: It seems a lot of people in this forum dont understand a very simple difference between "advantage" and "imbalance". just but cause one race has am advantage in one aspect of the game doesn't mean the game is imbalanced... If you actually read and understood what blizzard was saying in the post they said that they are ok with races having advantages in different stages AS LONG AS THEY CAN ALWAYS BE OVER COME WITH GOOD PLAY so this mean that according to blizzard they do not feel that the late game of the match up is imbalanced at this point. Yes blizzard could be wrong, but they again stated they were keeping a close eye on the state of the game and would enact changes as/if needed Totally Agree. Terran whiner please be more constructive. | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On May 06 2012 16:01 qB3 ENS wrote: I feel like terrans complaining about this should consider thepoint of view from protoss in the midgame against zerg and the trouble lower level players have been having holding stephano style max roaches. I understand that its not always the case, but with this current meta game protoss are forced to do some type harass to hold the zerg back or delay them in some way. I dont necisarrily like or agree with blizzard's stance, knowing and supporting imbalance in certain parts of the game to favor other. I find it interesting that they are forcing players to take action against other races since people are becoming aware of their own weaknesses and strengths. While this can be potentially limiting to the game i think the force of action is healthy and helps to speed up the evolution of the metagame because players are forced to find new wways to attack faster or stronger or with different strategies. sooooo yeah. If P chronoboosts Probes, he shouldn`t be that behind in worker count, Besides, unlike Terran, P doesn`t have to do damage, it has to force Zerg to build units, not only drones, which is very different from terran situation(because you are not forced to engage, just make sure Zerg did made units to defend). Also, I think that Getting Warp prism(which is usefull for you anyway), and droping 1=2 sentries(which you have in your army anyway) to just force-field zergs minerals can be helpfull to freak out Zerg, while it kinda lies within your build anyway, so will not screw you anyhow. On May 06 2012 15:06 HolyArrow wrote: IMO the suggestion that a key activates Charge for Chargelots actually makes Chargelots easier to use. From what I see in lots of high-level TvPs, Toss's problem with Chargelots is actually having Charge activate when they're not ready to engage, thus wasting it and having to wait for the cooldown. Having to activate Charge with a key press similar to Stim would solve this problem xD CAn`t you turn autocast off? On May 06 2012 14:28 K3Nyy wrote: You can already do that vs low level Protoss lol. I've seen it quite a few times too. Year, i can face-roll low skill protos, so? | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On May 06 2012 09:21 ( bush wrote: a good player will micro marine/marauder only, without moving medivacs. i dont think we terrans need this. Actually that is currently one of my improvements in my TvP. I group medivacs with the kiting infantry. I used to have them on a seperate hotkey, but that means when I stutterstep out of healing range, I get no heal and medivacs accelerate so damn slow. Plus while the bio kites the zealots, the medivacs fall to stalker if you don't move them. Watch the replays. All the korean pro's have the medivacs grouped with their bio and you will see that the medivacs heal only when the bio shoots. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On May 06 2012 16:01 qB3 ENS wrote: I feel like terrans complaining about this should consider thepoint of view from protoss in the midgame against zerg and the trouble lower level players have been having holding stephano style max roaches. I understand that its not always the case, but with this current meta game protoss are forced to do some type harass to hold the zerg back or delay them in some way. I dont necisarrily like or agree with blizzard's stance, knowing and supporting imbalance in certain parts of the game to favor other. I find it interesting that they are forcing players to take action against other races since people are becoming aware of their own weaknesses and strengths. While this can be potentially limiting to the game i think the force of action is healthy and helps to speed up the evolution of the metagame because players are forced to find new wways to attack faster or stronger or with different strategies. sooooo yeah. I feel like you never thought about TvZ. Yes, terrans know that you cannot let Zerg do their thing undisturbed. But - as it has been pointed out countless of times: a) It's a different matchup. Because there are problems in PvZ doesn't mean that problems in PvT shouldn't be addressed. b) You don't have to engage a Zerg in order to prevent unchecked economy. You have your forces you produce anyhow. You move out. Either Zerg hasn't made ANYTHING, then you roll him. Or he has made enough stuff, then you have prevented the drone explosion and can go home avoiding a fight you cannot win. If a terran takes his army and walks up to the protoss base and see's that he cannot attack and turns home, guess how much you have slowed down the toss.. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On May 06 2012 15:06 HolyArrow wrote: IMO the suggestion that a key activates Charge for Chargelots actually makes Chargelots easier to use. From what I see in lots of high-level TvPs, Toss's problem with Chargelots is actually having Charge activate when they're not ready to engage, thus wasting it and having to wait for the cooldown. Having to activate Charge with a key press similar to Stim would solve this problem xD Not if you have to specify the target of the charge, too. If ALL zealots charge one marine.... ... that marine is fucked. But so are the zealots brawling each other to reach their destination. You actually have to select small parts of the zealots and charge them to different locations. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 06 2012 15:24 Alaiz wrote: I absolutely agree with you. And i think it will make the protoss race a little bit less "herp derp a-click, TTT, profit". In fact we have even harder micro, we need to get a better concave and spread like MKP our bio army, EMP 10 times to get sure that all the Archons get hit a least 2 or 3 times (herp EMP only does 100 damage in a small radius, and Archons got 350 and a got f*cking huge ground place) or snipe, activate stimpack and stutter step, while controlling those vikings. Things goes greatly harder if you include a Raven for PDD or Seeker missile, cause we need a lot of mastery in control groups... I think there are some imbalance aspect that has to be studied. Because we Terrans need to be 10 times better than the Protosses (like having 120 APM while the P has only 45) to get in even terms... Lol. Yeah, definitely 10 times better. It's like every good protoss would be incapable of playing at more than 80 APM so any so-called non-meta game imbalance in TvP magically sorts itself out. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On May 06 2012 15:06 HolyArrow wrote: IMO the suggestion that a key activates Charge for Chargelots actually makes Chargelots easier to use. From what I see in lots of high-level TvPs, Toss's problem with Chargelots is actually having Charge activate when they're not ready to engage, thus wasting it and having to wait for the cooldown. Having to activate Charge with a key press similar to Stim would solve this problem xD Seeing as you can just right click to de-activate auto charge, pros would certainly be doing that if they felt it was in their advantage. You can sometimes see them doing it, but it is rare. Furtheremore, it would force the toss to actually watch his units and multitask, rather than a-move like 5 zlots into the 3rd while you are fighting a big battle somewhere else. The terran either has to outnumber the units at the 3rd pretty decently or micro his bio, while microing his units in the major battle. Without auto-charge, it will force the toss to atleast look at his units for a split second, to activate charge, and if he doesn't, the terran in the least has a lot easier time dealing with stuff like that,. This is similar to when the terran is kiting the toss back. The hardest part for us mere mortal terrans is to actually macro while kiting our hearts out, while the toss can just a move, warp in more units, throw down a couple of pylons and 5 sec later, most of the zlots are dead and reinforcing zlots are getting to the front line. I think taking away auto-charge might be a pretty damn huge step in making chargelots not as a-move as they currently are, and will help separate great players from good. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On May 06 2012 17:28 Thrombozyt wrote: If a terran takes his army and walks up to the protoss base and see's that he cannot attack and turns home, guess how much you have slowed down the toss.. You have slowed down the Protoss by however much it cost him to prepare sufficient defense to prevent your attack. Presuming that your army can defeat the Protoss's in the field (otherwise why would you be marching on his base) you have also prevented the Protoss from expanding past the defensible area around his base. You've protected your bases and denied Protoss any map control by pinning him at home. Of course, if you're sitting on two base to two or three base to three and growling at Protoss while he builds a death army, you'll naturally feel a little silly. Kinda like a Zerg squatting on three base Roach/Ling/Muta, and waiting for the three-base Protoss to finish his 200/200 and roll him. | ||
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Alaiz
France118 Posts
On May 06 2012 17:54 Zarahtra wrote: Seeing as you can just right click to de-activate auto charge, pros would certainly be doing that if they felt it was in their advantage. You can sometimes see them doing it, but it is rare. Furtheremore, it would force the toss to actually watch his units and multitask, rather than a-move like 5 zlots into the 3rd while you are fighting a big battle somewhere else. The terran either has to outnumber the units at the 3rd pretty decently or micro his bio, while microing his units in the major battle. Without auto-charge, it will force the toss to atleast look at his units for a split second, to activate charge, and if he doesn't, the terran in the least has a lot easier time dealing with stuff like that,. This is similar to when the terran is kiting the toss back. The hardest part for us mere mortal terrans is to actually macro while kiting our hearts out, while the toss can just a move, warp in more units, throw down a couple of pylons and 5 sec later, most of the zlots are dead and reinforcing zlots are getting to the front line. I think taking away auto-charge might be a pretty damn huge step in making chargelots not as a-move as they currently are, and will help separate great players from good. I am absolutely agree with you sir ! | ||
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Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
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Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
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Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
On May 06 2012 15:24 Alaiz wrote: I absolutely agree with you. And i think it will make the protoss race a little bit less "herp derp a-click, TTT, profit". In fact we have even harder micro, we need to get a better concave and spread like MKP our bio army, EMP 10 times to get sure that all the Archons get hit a least 2 or 3 times (herp EMP only does 100 damage in a small radius, and Archons got 350 and a got f*cking huge ground place) or snipe, activate stimpack and stutter step, while controlling those vikings. Things goes greatly harder if you include a Raven for PDD or Seeker missile, cause we need a lot of mastery in control groups... I think there are some imbalance aspect that has to be studied. Because we Terrans need to be 10 times better than the Protosses (like having 120 APM while the P has only 45) to get in even terms... EMP does remove all shield, not only 100... | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round nice to help you! | ||
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Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
You're right, sorry , was sure it remvoes all shield. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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