On April 27 2012 03:59 Irre wrote: I don't think you can be as dominant in sc2 bc its so easy to lose to someone way less skilled..but I know flash will be amazing.
Take MKPs control and timings Take Partings Caster control Take Nestea/MVPs Macro God Brain Power Take DRGs mechanics Take MMAs decision making/mind games
This combined is a player the caliber of Flash...Whether it takes 2 months or 1 year...Flash has these talents and will no doubt be a force in Sc2 based on this alone.
I hope that is true and it will be interesting to see how much of that he can actually do if he really switches. I generally like the fact that in SC2 you cannot gain as much advantage over your opponent as in BW by simply being able to click buttons faster than him.
I like that fact too and is something I argue with my bw friend all the time. A lot of the "skill" in bw is artificial and comes from mastering the outdated and archaic UI, which takes rote practice to master. Therefore, you could have players with superior decision making and smarts in bw than others, but they just don't have the mechanics to keep up with their brilliant tactical mind. SC 2 will allow those players to shine more than those who just relied on rote mechanics.
This is so bullcrap.
So iloveoov, savior, bisu, made names for themselves through artificial skill from mastering the UI? Funny, I thought it was because they revolutionized the metagame repeatedly with genius decision making and smarts.
No, the very top players like bisu, flash etc will still shine regardless in bw. I'm talking about the b-teamers or unknowns who could be better than the A-teamers if not for the UI. Sc2 will remove this handicap, which is what I'm looking forward to.
Ah, my favorite part of reading threads like this: finding the people who don't have even a day's worth of experience with BW.
Actually, my favourite part of this thread is reading the first half and all the salty bw posters since it was in the bw forum to start. I think it shows a stark contrast between sc2 posters who showed a lot more maturity and civility than bw posters.
If you want a real comparison between the quality of posters in each forum just look at their respective LR threads (I use that term very loosely for SC2).
Heh, not going to deny the LR threads are full of balance whiners. I've just noticed anytime there's bw/sc2 cross news, I go to the bw forum to read some of the posts and a lot of times it's pretty disrespectful and childish in there.
My favorite part of this thread will be coming back to it in 6 months and responding to it. As an SC2 fan I've been ridiculed enough by the BW elite to be patient for my sweet revenge.
On April 27 2012 03:59 Irre wrote: I don't think you can be as dominant in sc2 bc its so easy to lose to someone way less skilled..but I know flash will be amazing.
Take MKPs control and timings Take Partings Caster control Take Nestea/MVPs Macro God Brain Power Take DRGs mechanics Take MMAs decision making/mind games
This combined is a player the caliber of Flash...Whether it takes 2 months or 1 year...Flash has these talents and will no doubt be a force in Sc2 based on this alone.
I hope that is true and it will be interesting to see how much of that he can actually do if he really switches. I generally like the fact that in SC2 you cannot gain as much advantage over your opponent as in BW by simply being able to click buttons faster than him.
I like that fact too and is something I argue with my bw friend all the time. A lot of the "skill" in bw is artificial and comes from mastering the outdated and archaic UI, which takes rote practice to master. Therefore, you could have players with superior decision making and smarts in bw than others, but they just don't have the mechanics to keep up with their brilliant tactical mind. SC 2 will allow those players to shine more than those who just relied on rote mechanics.
This is so bullcrap.
So iloveoov, savior, bisu, made names for themselves through artificial skill from mastering the UI? Funny, I thought it was because they revolutionized the metagame repeatedly with genius decision making and smarts.
No, the very top players like bisu, flash etc will still shine regardless in bw. I'm talking about the b-teamers or unknowns who could be better than the A-teamers if not for the UI. Sc2 will remove this handicap, which is what I'm looking forward to.
Ah, my favorite part of reading threads like this: finding the people who don't have even a day's worth of experience with BW.
Actually, my favourite part of this thread is reading the first half and all the salty bw posters since it was in the bw forum to start. I think it shows a stark contrast between sc2 posters who showed a lot more maturity and civility than bw posters.
Lack of maturity and civility?? If the top of the top tier bw pros do switch over to Sc2, it almost insures the death of Bw.. It may not be overnight, but it will happen... And having played BW for 14 years, i think i deserve to be a little salty about news like this.. The real reason i am so upset about it, is the majority of Sc2 fans dont appreciate the news.. They look at it and laugh, "omg hes goign to owned so bad by MKP/MVP/whathaveyouP" without showing respect to the fact that their preciouse little Sc2 would never have been, if it wasnt for BW and players like Flash.. I realize its not all Sc2 fans that are like that, but a whole lot of them show absolutly no respect, and its just kind of disheartening..
But in the end. 14 years is the best run of any game to date.. Good luck topping that Sc2 ((i do play Sc2 for reference here. Im not so rabid of a Sc:Bw fan that I dont/wont play it and just hate on it))
On April 27 2012 05:26 Gosi wrote: Now when we are talking about mechanics, BW AI and stuff I just gotta post some Bisu fpvods for you who haven't seen it already. Not the best quality but it still pure sex, plus Tastosis casting the background! Enjoy!!!
On April 27 2012 03:59 Irre wrote: I don't think you can be as dominant in sc2 bc its so easy to lose to someone way less skilled..but I know flash will be amazing.
Take MKPs control and timings Take Partings Caster control Take Nestea/MVPs Macro God Brain Power Take DRGs mechanics Take MMAs decision making/mind games
This combined is a player the caliber of Flash...Whether it takes 2 months or 1 year...Flash has these talents and will no doubt be a force in Sc2 based on this alone.
I hope that is true and it will be interesting to see how much of that he can actually do if he really switches. I generally like the fact that in SC2 you cannot gain as much advantage over your opponent as in BW by simply being able to click buttons faster than him.
I like that fact too and is something I argue with my bw friend all the time. A lot of the "skill" in bw is artificial and comes from mastering the outdated and archaic UI, which takes rote practice to master. Therefore, you could have players with superior decision making and smarts in bw than others, but they just don't have the mechanics to keep up with their brilliant tactical mind. SC 2 will allow those players to shine more than those who just relied on rote mechanics.
This is so bullcrap.
So iloveoov, savior, bisu, made names for themselves through artificial skill from mastering the UI? Funny, I thought it was because they revolutionized the metagame repeatedly with genius decision making and smarts.
No, the very top players like bisu, flash etc will still shine regardless in bw. I'm talking about the b-teamers or unknowns who could be better than the A-teamers if not for the UI. Sc2 will remove this handicap, which is what I'm looking forward to.
Ah, my favorite part of reading threads like this: finding the people who don't have even a day's worth of experience with BW.
Actually, my favourite part of this thread is reading the first half and all the salty bw posters since it was in the bw forum to start. I think it shows a stark contrast between sc2 posters who showed a lot more maturity and civility than bw posters.
Lack of maturity and civility?? If the top of the top tier bw pros do switch over to Sc2, it almost insures the death of Bw.. It may not be overnight, but it will happen... And having played BW for 14 years, i think i deserve to be a little salty about news like this.. The real reason i am so upset about it, is the majority of Sc2 fans dont appreciate the news.. They look at it and laugh, "omg hes goign to owned so bad by MKP/MVP/whathaveyouP" without showing respect to the fact that their preciouse little Sc2 would never have been, if it wasnt for BW and players like Flash.. I realize its not all Sc2 fans that are like that, but a whole lot of them show absolutly no respect, and its just kind of disheartening..
But in the end. 14 years is the best run of any game to date.. Good luck topping that Sc2 ((i do play Sc2 for reference here. Im not so rabid of a Sc:Bw fan that I dont/wont play it and just hate on it))
SC2 fans are thrilled about it. Goto /r/strarcraft there is more about flash on that page than ever before. Its huge news for sc2 and we're thrilled. Just because we don't think Flash is going to become the best at SC2, doesn't mean we're not excited to have new amazing players join the scene.
I don't think Flash is god, but I think he'll be a great SC2 player and I can't wait to watch.
On April 27 2012 05:26 Gosi wrote: Now when we are talking about mechanics, BW AI and stuff I just gotta post some Bisu fpvods for you who haven't seen it already. Not the best quality but it still pure sex, plus Tastosis casting the background! Enjoy!!!
On April 27 2012 05:26 Gosi wrote: Now when we are talking about mechanics, BW AI and stuff I just gotta post some Bisu fpvods for you who haven't seen it already. Not the best quality but it still pure sex, plus Tastosis casting the background! Enjoy!!!
On April 27 2012 05:26 Gosi wrote: Now when we are talking about mechanics, BW AI and stuff I just gotta post some Bisu fpvods for you who haven't seen it already. Not the best quality but it still pure sex, plus Tastosis casting the background! Enjoy!!!
On April 27 2012 03:59 Irre wrote: I don't think you can be as dominant in sc2 bc its so easy to lose to someone way less skilled..but I know flash will be amazing.
Take MKPs control and timings Take Partings Caster control Take Nestea/MVPs Macro God Brain Power Take DRGs mechanics Take MMAs decision making/mind games
This combined is a player the caliber of Flash...Whether it takes 2 months or 1 year...Flash has these talents and will no doubt be a force in Sc2 based on this alone.
I hope that is true and it will be interesting to see how much of that he can actually do if he really switches. I generally like the fact that in SC2 you cannot gain as much advantage over your opponent as in BW by simply being able to click buttons faster than him.
I like that fact too and is something I argue with my bw friend all the time. A lot of the "skill" in bw is artificial and comes from mastering the outdated and archaic UI, which takes rote practice to master. Therefore, you could have players with superior decision making and smarts in bw than others, but they just don't have the mechanics to keep up with their brilliant tactical mind. SC 2 will allow those players to shine more than those who just relied on rote mechanics.
This is so bullcrap.
So iloveoov, savior, bisu, made names for themselves through artificial skill from mastering the UI? Funny, I thought it was because they revolutionized the metagame repeatedly with genius decision making and smarts.
No, the very top players like bisu, flash etc will still shine regardless in bw. I'm talking about the b-teamers or unknowns who could be better than the A-teamers if not for the UI. Sc2 will remove this handicap, which is what I'm looking forward to.
Ah, my favorite part of reading threads like this: finding the people who don't have even a day's worth of experience with BW.
Actually, my favourite part of this thread is reading the first half and all the salty bw posters since it was in the bw forum to start. I think it shows a stark contrast between sc2 posters who showed a lot more maturity and civility than bw posters.
Lack of maturity and civility?? If the top of the top tier bw pros do switch over to Sc2, it almost insures the death of Bw.. It may not be overnight, but it will happen... And having played BW for 14 years, i think i deserve to be a little salty about news like this.. The real reason i am so upset about it, is the majority of Sc2 fans dont appreciate the news.. They look at it and laugh, "omg hes goign to owned so bad by MKP/MVP/whathaveyouP" without showing respect to the fact that their preciouse little Sc2 would never have been, if it wasnt for BW and players like Flash.. I realize its not all Sc2 fans that are like that, but a whole lot of them show absolutly no respect, and its just kind of disheartening..
But in the end. 14 years is the best run of any game to date.. Good luck topping that Sc2 ((i do play Sc2 for reference here. Im not so rabid of a Sc:Bw fan that I dont/wont play it and just hate on it))
SC2 fans are thrilled about it. Goto /r/strarcraft there is more about flash on that page than ever before. Its huge news for sc2 and we're thrilled. Just because we don't think Flash is going to become the best at SC2, doesn't mean we're not excited to have new amazing players join the scene.
I don't think Flash is god, but I think he'll be a great SC2 player and I can't wait to watch.
I at least would be really excited if Flash really switched to SC2 but by now we've had so many of these threads that it's difficult to really believe it until there is some actual concrete evidence that he really plays SC2 now full time, participates in tournaments etc.
Also i dont understand people saying SC2 is "easier" than BW. I mean how can it be easier for flash to beat Bisu etc. now than in BW. It's the players who make the difficulty of the game, and since they're all going to SC2 it's going to be harder than BW for all i care
On April 27 2012 06:04 EU.Pink wrote: Good too see the competition getting fiercer!
Also i dont understand people saying SC2 is "easier" than BW. I mean how can it be easier for flash to beat Bisu etc. now than in BW. It's the players who make the difficulty of the game, and since they're all going to SC2 it's going to be harder than BW for all i care
I'm not bw fanboy at all but as to question what makes sc2 easier than bw. Well just go play it and then come back
I don't really see how anyone can say that SC2 is far more about decision making and micro than it is mechanics, fundamentally most of the players don't even have that great of mechanics. There's maybe a few zergs, literally probably between 1-2 of them who can actually maintain as many creep tumors as they have out and spread appropriately. Same with protoss chrono-boost. Terrans are a bit easier in that mules are brain-dead but they have some degree of complexity insofar as worker management I guess.
I'm excited for BW Pros to move over, I've watched some, and it's truly intimidating the level that they play at. What I'm hoping for, in terms of SC2's progression, is to see people who are actually mechanical, tactical, strategic gods who can show us things about the game that we didn't even know were possible. Maybe a protoss who's actually capable of spending virtually all of their chrono boost at all times to produce a powerful timing attack that was otherwise impossible.
I see pros still today who can't spend their money properly or their build simply doesn't necessitate gas (terran bio play) and they get these multi-thousand gas banks early on in the game. This screams to me that there's something wrong with the way people are macro'ing today. There's so many improvements that could be made, and it's something that BW Pros could bring out.
Even in regards to micro, I've read here and there about how, from the outside the game is blob your army and 1a at your opponent's base. This is actually to some degree true, but slowly we're seeing a shift from boxing and throwing armies to more intricate unit control. These are things that likely occurred in the early brood war days (though I've no actual experience to base that on, my assumption is that people didn't play like Flash plays right now when the game became a sport) as well. However, now we're slowly seeing innovation, we're seeing unit movements that people haven't ever tried before--I believe it was Parting(?) who showed off impressive high-templar flanking, completely blanketing people's armies in storms.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Brood War seems to be a game more about a series of smaller engagements, and the bigger engagements that occur are rather intense from their magnitude. It seems to be more conflict driven than SC2. I think this has more to do with the age of the game, people are entirely aware of what a unit can do, and this is something not completely evident in SC2 yet. People are slowly moving towards it, but we aren't there yet. I also think this has something to do with the game size in a very literal way. You're at a more narrow angle towards the ground and are zoomed closer in in Brood War. As a general statement, you can actually see more of the screen in SC2 both from it being a widescreen game and being further away so engagements actually end up appearing smaller than they are.
So I'm curious, to the BW fans, if BW pros were to move over, do you think they could make SC2 into something you would enjoy watching? A common complaint seems to be that SC2 is just too simple of a game, to which my opinion is that the game is far from simple--people are just very bad at playing it (for reasons I've briefly mentioned earlier). My opinion would be that BW Pros are good enough to break down whatever people thought of SC2 and blow everyone's fucking minds, and I'm really hoping that's the case.
I apologize for SC2 fans being instigators in this thread, it's unwarranted and people would be wise to remember that we are gamers--our passions die hard, regardless of genre. People should have the forethought to realize what they're saying, in the sense that if someone were to be rude to the games that defined their own past would be met with similar defensiveness.
I'm confused, why is BW pros possibly coming to SC2 such a big deal? Isn't there quite a few older BW pros that play SC2 that aren't doing the greatest? Is everyone expecting them to come in and completely own a game when they're a year behind the curve?
EPT
