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On May 31 2012 02:56 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 02:52 A3iL3r0n wrote:On May 31 2012 02:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2012 02:35 Tien wrote:
It's how easy they get transition points.
The 2 best finishers in the league barrelling down the court vs 1 or 2 defenders = 2 points 90% of the time, every time. Not only that, both LeBron and Wade are high up there with their passing ability and court vision. Defenders in that position stand no chance. Best to foul them any way they can without giving up a clear path foul.
15 foot jump shots and turnovers are Miami's best friends. When you miss those jumpers, the rebound goes right back out and that allows LeBron and Wade to sprint down the court and play off each other for easy buckets. Same with turnovers.
If you trade Wade, you are giving up 5-10 easy transition points a game. It's just not worth it. You have to keep the 2 together, because they make each player better.
How you beat Miami is how the Spurs play. Dominant post player that can abuse Miami's small front court, and offensive execution and ball movement. When you move the ball well enough and end up passing to the open guy in the corner, whether he makes or misses that 3 won't matter. 3's in the corner don't rebound out to the free throw area for a quick transition game.
It will take Miami 7 games to bea the Spurs IF they even get that far. Not even, I feel that our defense is well enough to combat spurs offense easily... Like I've said, put a big fast person (wade on Parker) and Lebron on Duncan and so on. That will give them a lot of trouble in the offense part. You just have to crush their offense with our defense and will have the games in our hands. Yes they have extreme ball movement, but will they be able to move it with a defense like ours? All the teams they've played have normal defenses. Ours is one of the best in the leagues, can't argue that at all. You're out of your mind. The Spurs are going to 4-0 whoever they meet in the Finals. You somehow think that a two-man team is going to beat the Spurs? Are you even watching the Spurs' games? You think D-Wade is somehow going to shut down Parker even though Westbrook can't and he's one of the fastest players in the league? You must be trollin' homie. Why does everyone keep saying Miami is a 2 man team... IT'S NOT. It has an amazing bench and amazing starters, just stop.Westbrook =/= Wade.
How did the Heat bench in 1 game vs. the Celtics (who have a TERRIBLE bench) go from what was holding them back to AMAZING?
The Heat bench is bad. The Boshless Heat bench is terrible.
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United States4471 Posts
On May 31 2012 03:12 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 03:06 Saeglopur wrote:On May 31 2012 02:56 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2012 02:52 A3iL3r0n wrote:On May 31 2012 02:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2012 02:35 Tien wrote:
It's how easy they get transition points.
The 2 best finishers in the league barrelling down the court vs 1 or 2 defenders = 2 points 90% of the time, every time. Not only that, both LeBron and Wade are high up there with their passing ability and court vision. Defenders in that position stand no chance. Best to foul them any way they can without giving up a clear path foul.
15 foot jump shots and turnovers are Miami's best friends. When you miss those jumpers, the rebound goes right back out and that allows LeBron and Wade to sprint down the court and play off each other for easy buckets. Same with turnovers.
If you trade Wade, you are giving up 5-10 easy transition points a game. It's just not worth it. You have to keep the 2 together, because they make each player better.
How you beat Miami is how the Spurs play. Dominant post player that can abuse Miami's small front court, and offensive execution and ball movement. When you move the ball well enough and end up passing to the open guy in the corner, whether he makes or misses that 3 won't matter. 3's in the corner don't rebound out to the free throw area for a quick transition game.
It will take Miami 7 games to bea the Spurs IF they even get that far. Not even, I feel that our defense is well enough to combat spurs offense easily... Like I've said, put a big fast person (wade on Parker) and Lebron on Duncan and so on. That will give them a lot of trouble in the offense part. You just have to crush their offense with our defense and will have the games in our hands. Yes they have extreme ball movement, but will they be able to move it with a defense like ours? All the teams they've played have normal defenses. Ours is one of the best in the leagues, can't argue that at all. You're out of your mind. The Spurs are going to 4-0 whoever they meet in the Finals. You somehow think that a two-man team is going to beat the Spurs? Are you even watching the Spurs' games? You think D-Wade is somehow going to shut down Parker even though Westbrook can't and he's one of the fastest players in the league? You must be trollin' homie. Why does everyone keep saying Miami is a 2 man team... IT'S NOT. It has an amazing bench and amazing starters, just stop.Westbrook =/= Wade. If the Heat bench is amazing, then how would you describe San Antonio's? They're alright + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.allmystery.de/i/t8e2da3_trollface.jpg) No but seriously, I've seen spurs usually use like four players of their bench that are amazing at moving the ball too, but I feel like the Heats bench is so much better when it comes to defense.
MIA bench: Haslem, Anthony, Miller, Jones, Cole, and Howard
SAS bench: Ginobili, Bonner, Jackson, Splitter, Neal and Anderson
Ginobili alone makes the Spurs' bench significantly better than the Heat's. If you want to analyze further, Haslem is the only quality bench player on that team who has only cracked double digits twice in the playoffs, didn't even score a point in the last game, and is averaging just 5 rpg. Joel Anthony has no offense and is not an elite defender, Miller is a shooter who has only cracked double digits once in the playoffs who is an average defender at best, Jones is a sharpshooter who has made only 4 3's and is averaging 2 ppg in the playoffs and is an average defender, Cole has contributed even less than Jones, and Howard is... Howard. How does that bench in any way compare to SAS's?
As for the non-Lebron/Wade starters, you have Battier who has cracked double digts only 3 times and is shooting 28.3% from behind the arc, Turiaf who is averaging a little over 2 ppg, less than a bpg, and about 3 rpg, and Chalmers who is the 3rd leading scorer at a whopping 11 ppg with 1.3 3pg (despite being a 3pt shooter) and 3.5 apg as a PG.
It is clear that this is a 2 player team with Bosh out. Saying otherwise is just silly and confirms that you're blindly biased.
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Here I put this together, playoff statistics thus far.
![[image loading]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/Gugen/BenchStats.png)
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United States4471 Posts
Btw, to acknowledge that the Heat have also made adjustments in the postseason, they've been one of the better opponent 3p% teams in the playoffs. However, no other team gets open 3s and shoots them as well as the Spurs do, so I would still worry if I were MIA.
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On May 30 2012 23:37 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:02 XoXiDe wrote:On May 30 2012 22:27 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 30 2012 21:32 Hadley_ wrote:On May 30 2012 05:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I don't think we'll ever trade wade, like ever. He's like MJ to Chicago. I think if we were ever to trade anybody it would be bosh more than anything, besides these guys are here to stay. That's what I feel like. Sure, but thats stupid. Wade & LeBron both need the ball and that doesn't work. Look at LeBron when Wade was hurt, he played out of this world. Trading Wade for a BigMan like Dwight would be the best thing. LeBron would average 20apg with Bosh+Dwight. Isn't going to happe, but the team would be alot better with Dwight for Wade. Still won't be traded anytime soon. And we're still doing great with them. Something I want to come and mention , OKC and spurs are battling it Hard against each other, by the time spurs make it to the finals, they will be tired out. While Miami looks like they wont need to use to much energy against Boston for the sheer fact that their an old team already as everyone stated. Finals scheduled to start Jun 12., depending on how long the series go there should still be a few days rest in between. OKC and SAS are battling hard? Really? The last 2 games haven't been defensive grinds at all, and Holcan here has been complaining about 100 point games!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Lawler
I didn't make the law, I only adhere to it.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On May 31 2012 03:46 XoXiDe wrote:Here I put this together, playoff statistics thus far. + Show Spoiler +
It's unfair because you put Ginobili in the equation. He plays as many minutes as a starter.
If you put Bosh into the bench numbers, that puts it closer to high 30s.
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but giniobili is a bench player, and bosh is a starter.....also I'm confident the drop in pts from manu to green will still have 20 more points than the miami bench.
I'd also like to note that only parker and duncan get "starter minutes" while diaw, green, leonard and ginobili have around the same playoff minutes.
edit: green averages 9.3, so if we switch him for manu (even though their minutes are similar) you still get a +20 advantage for the heat bench.
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On May 31 2012 03:57 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 03:46 XoXiDe wrote:Here I put this together, playoff statistics thus far. It's unfair because you put Ginobili in the equation. He plays as many minutes as a starter. If you put Bosh into the bench numbers, that puts it closer to high 30s.
That's team depth for ya.
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United States4471 Posts
On May 31 2012 03:57 Tien wrote:It's unfair because you put Ginobili in the equation. He plays as many minutes as a starter. If you put Bosh into the bench numbers, that puts it closer to high 30s.
I think it's a testament to the Spurs that they don't have to start Ginobili to compete against opposing starting lineups, and a detriment to the Heat that they need to start Bosh and rely on their big 3 so much in general.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
The bench differential in points isn't going to be the deciding factor in the series. Bench players will play a lot less minutes in the finals than other rounds in the playoffs.
Except Ginobili. He will get as much starter minutes as Duncan / Parker.
You also forget that with Bosh / LeBron / Wade, you can rotate these guys in and out quite effectively without being completely exposed like Indiana was when they rotated Hibbert / West out and then their bench got crushed.
It will be a fantastic battle, with Spurs favorites to win, me thinks 4-2, and if LeBron wins, he will have to put up a GOAT performance.
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please go look at his minutes, never has he played as much as duncan or parker. in the regular season, parker was at 33mpg, duncan was at 28 mpg, ginobili was at 23 mpg. leonard, and jefferson both averaged more minutes than manu. so did steven jackson, and danny green played equal minutes with him. but please, tell us again about how bad danny green is.
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well lets stop putting Miami and SA into the Finals when only 3 games have been played so far. With Bosh Miami has a monster advantage in their starting lineup and 1 "Big 3" vs SA bench rotations. Without Bosh Miami is on thin ice.
Miami's defense is very different from OKCs as Miami's wings preplay passing lanes a lot. They'd rather have the ball handler iso vs their top defenders than let the pass go (usually). Miami's bigs are also generally good (Bosh is great) at stuffing Pick N Rolls to the hoop.
Of course, San Antonio screens the screeners AND sometimes even sets screens on the other side of the court so the other shooter who isn't even in the freaking play can get open. It would be a great matchup of elite offense vs elite defense but only if Bosh is healthy.
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United States4471 Posts
On May 31 2012 04:43 Ace wrote:
well lets stop putting Miami and SA into the Finals when only 3 games have been played so far. With Bosh Miami has a monster advantage in their starting lineup and 1 "Big 3" vs SA bench rotations. Without Bosh Miami is on thin ice.
Miami's defense is very different from OKCs as Miami's wings preplay passing lanes a lot. They'd rather have the ball handler iso vs their top defenders than let the pass go (usually). Miami's bigs are also generally good (Bosh is great) at stuffing Pick N Rolls to the hoop.
Of course, San Antonio screens the screeners AND sometimes even sets screens on the other side of the court so the other shooter who isn't even in the freaking play can get open. It would be a great matchup of elite offense vs elite defense but only if Bosh is healthy.
When I read through breakdowns of the Spurs' offense, it just boggles my mind and makes me wonder how teams are supposed to defend them. They have individual players in Parker and Ginobili who demand coordinated team defenses to effectively guard, so the off-ball defenders have to be paying attention to them all the time. But then they start running a bunch of weakside action that makes defenses pay for paying attention to the strongside action, which results in a role player getting an open shot or a shot close to the basket. Every off-ball defender has to keep track of two, if not three, things at any given time in that offense, and it's an offense that's constantly in motion and working so there's no rest.
I'm sure the Spurs aren't the only team that does these things, but they do it so well and so seamlessly that it's just a beauty to watch.
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Yup. Exactly why I think it would be an interesting series... Offense vs Defense, although it is just plain out hard to stop SA even with great defense. A lot of the plays they run have options depending on how the opposing team is playing them and the players are good at being able to execute it.
In addition as to why it would also be an interesting series is that on one hand, you have the Spurs who are playing great basketball. The Spurs win, then team basketball wins and basketball lovers are happy. If Miami wins, even with the Spurs playing this well, then you know Wade and James played a hell of a series and deserved to win the title.
edit:Ace post was above mine before....and hope u like my sig Holcan :p
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It is. It's also highly taxing on the offensive players which is why getting Stephen Jackson and Diaw were major upgrades.
If the team playing them has versatile defensive bigs that are comfortable away from the rim, or big wings then San Antonio would run into trouble. The West doesn't have the same kind of dominant defenses the East tends to have but I think they'd still crush anyone in the East outside of a healthy Miami/Chicago/Boston with that offense. I'd give Indiana a shot but I don't trust Danny Granger on the defensive end.
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is it sad that I've stopped visiting tl for everything but the nba thread and my teams tutorial video thread? I jist don't use the rest of the site x.x
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I just don't feel like looking around for stats because most of the time, from what I've learned bias people vs bias people never end up looking at the stats that the other person posted. Either way, I just really hope to see a Spurs vs Heat finals.
And Ace, I'm sure bosh will be healthy, he's supposedly coming back in this series. Only thing I can see happening to screw some ones chances at the finals is for some one to get hurt at the last minute.
And Holcan, grats on 2k where ever you post it 
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More important than a boring postseason - the NBA Draft Lottery is TONIGHT! TONIGHT! Basketball gods be good, the Warriors will lose their pick to the Jazz for not playing basketball like a professional organization, the Bobcats will get the 4th pick in the lottery for being an abortion and a decent team like the Rockets or Kings or T-Wolves will take it.
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On May 31 2012 05:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:I just don't feel like looking around for stats because most of the time, from what I've learned bias people vs bias people never end up looking at the stats that the other person posted. Either way, I just really hope to see a Spurs vs Heat finals. And Ace, I'm sure bosh will be healthy, he's supposedly coming back in this series. Only thing I can see happening to screw some ones chances at the finals is for some one to get hurt at the last minute. And Holcan, grats on 2k where ever you post it
I think its safe to say that 1500 of my posts were in nba threads, so its only fitting that I post in here for my 2000th.
Rondo hopefully lights it up, ray ray is the sexiest bald man in the nba, garnett is a monster and pierce is the truth. I hope game 2 is closer than the second half of game 1
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Still Miami has to beat Boston to reach, what it will be, the best finals possible. Going to enjoy it, if it will happen.
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EPT
