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On May 29 2012 20:34 Saeglopur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 15:14 Aerisky wrote:Not to mention Spo is a pretty underrated coach as well, I think he really knows what he's doing.  Lol are you serious? You really shouldnt be the one writing walls of text in defense of Heat fans' intelligence after making a silly statement like that. At this point, spolestra is just a punching bag and eventual scape goat. If it's spurs vs heat in the finals(to me this is already settled unless injuries to key players happen), spurs are going to break the league record for points scored in the paint. Spolestra will get raped so hard by Popovich that even Wade will feel sorry for him.
If what you say is true and that opinion is as stupid as you say, confine your judgment to me because I'm probably the only Heat fan with that opinion, as the person in this thread with the least basketball knowledge.
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On May 29 2012 15:31 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 14:57 Aerisky wrote:You guys seem to be fighting Miami fans [who think they will ezpz roll over all the other teams with their star power]...that are invisible. I don't see any bigoted/stupid Heat fans whose views are as blind you guys are representing. Maybe you participate on other forums where there are those types of fans or a lot of your irl friends are that way, but please don't take it out on us over here  I don't like to participate in Internet flamewars heated debates but I believe you are misrepresenting the position of a lot of Heat fans (or just conjuring up those type of people in this thread to attack) and making a straw man argument... Excuse me? These are exactly the views of the last couple of Heat fans. Shockeyy explicitly said 'regular season doesn't matter'. BlueRoyal can't understand why SA and OKC are regarded as better teams by some because he's basing it entirely on the value of the stars. If some people think that Miami is going to win and that their stars will outweigh the weakness of their bench then they can make that prediction. Don't make analysis-less posts, though. And don't make bizarre comments like 'they have a great supporting cast'. In the words of Sir Chuck, the supporting cast stinks. Probably the worst in the playoffs. In conclusion, even if you're defending your home team, please make an attempt at objective analysis.
Yall are seriously taking this shit way out of proportion.
I never said such and such a team is BETTER - i was making the argument that people that are stating okc/spurs are better than heats are just as wrong as people stating the heat is better than either.
objective analysis is almost impossible in these kinds of discussions - the fact that people try to argue bench/depth > star power makes it obvious. Yes star players are important, bench/depth is important, but since when has it been so undoubtedly clear that bench/depth > star power?
I'm not saying the case is otherwise, im just trying to say that people need to stop with their elitist basketball perspectives. Even if Miami were to take it all this year, it wouldn't mean that star power > bench/depth. It would be just one case out of decades of play.
lets just let the results speak from themselves. People try to be all analytical and shit before the games are played out, then make excuses after.
Who in here seriously expected clippers to beat memphis this year? In all honesty I'm assuming no very many did. Who expected 76ers to beat a bulls (albeit a roseless one)? Pretty sure most of us assumed that the rose could at least get past 1st round, even without rose.
see where im getting at?
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Spurs worked hard to get an easy road through the playoffs, by getting the best regular season record. I don't know why people take that against them.
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On May 30 2012 01:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:25 XoXiDe wrote:On May 30 2012 00:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:http://www.nba.com/spurs/schedule/Tell me all the teams that they played that are even remotely as good as Miami? Oh and what's this here: Tue Jan 17 @ Miami American Airlines Arena, Miami, FL L 98-120 Pretty sure Miami will rock spurs in the finals. Especially with how Miami has been playing lately with two out of three stars and it's star bench. Stop coming in here and trying to trash Miami. We all know Miami will take it this year and people are just naive to see it. We already proved that with the ball rotating and Lebron/Wade combo we will destroy any team. Spurs only have a streak because of the fact they have played mediocre teams so far. Comon now, even Jazz almost had them every game and we all know they're Lol... Imo Spurs will beat OKC and then meet Miami in Finals and we will just 4-2 them easily. Richard Jefferson was still on the team at the time, Dejuan Blair was starting, Spurs didn't have Stephen Jackson or Manu Ginobili or Boris Diaw, they lost to a lot of terrible teams that month, if you want to form your opinion on that, that's fine. Very true, but of course I'm going to always be biased since I have said it before; I'm a hardcore Miami fan and I still say Miami will take it. The stats are showing miami will still be very good against the Celtics and against Spurs. The day we played against the clippers, we played terrible: James with 23 points? Lol, he easily makes 30+ points a game. That really says a lot.
It's ok to be biased but if you're going to say things that are factually wrong or just idiotic do it on a Heat forum.
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On May 30 2012 01:59 MassHysteria wrote:Lol, I am just hoping you are willing to put your money where your mouth is when the time comes Shockeyy  In seriousness though, you said "the stats are showing miami will still be very good against the Celtics and against Spurs." Care to show or share some of these stats? I am not saying you are wrong (I actually think MIA-SAS would be a great series as well) but just interested. All the talk about the Spurs streak and their opponents made me want to repost this from a few pages back. The mention of the Spurs' opponents not being tip-top during their streak is legit but it is important to also note the way they have been beating these teams. We aren't talking about some mere 3-point victories here. With that said, I am not trying to say SAS is already into the finals, but if they do make it, MIA will still pose a big problem for SA and I don't think there is that much of a guarantee SA comes out on top. I can't count out Miami yet.
Don't worry, I'll admit that I'm wrong if that time comes, but looking at the past two games against the Pacers and Celtics, we've gone 20+ against them and the celtics is a hella defensive team. This goes to show you that Miami is stepping up their D and their O. We'll see these next few games, but seeing the faces of the celtics, it doesn't look good in the next game with home court advantage once more and with Bosh coming in probably by the time we play at the celtics home court, we'll be doing pretty damn well. Hopefully Wade and Lebron just don't over work themselves trying to step it up in replacement for Bosh.
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United States4471 Posts
Just because the regular season game between the Spurs and the Heat was brought up, I took a look and it was a pretty interesting game that we can't really take too much from. A few notes:
1. The Heat were without Wade and it was one of the few games where it was Lebron and Bosh. Unsurprisingly to me (I still think that the big 3 don't mesh well with each other), they both played well and combined for 63 pts, 13 rbds, and 15 asts. Some people will take this as "if they did this without Wade, think about how much better they'd be with Wade!", but I don't think it's as simple as that. Obviously, the Heat are always better with Wade than without him, but it's highly unlikely that Bosh puts up those kinds of numbers or production with him playing.
2. Miller shot 6 for 6 and Chalmers shot 4 for 6 from behind the arc. I think it's safe to say that it was an aberration to say the least, and that the Heat are probably unbeatable if their role players are shooting 3s that well. Toss in the fact that Lebron went 4 for 6, Cole and Battier each shot 1 for 2, and a team total of 16 for 26 (61.5%), and the game becomes even more of an outlier. I know that the Spurs defense is not as good as it was in prior championship runs, but that kind of shooting doesn't happen simply because of bad defense.
3. As stated above, the Spurs were still playing RJ and were without Manu, SJax or Diaw. The upgrade is huge.
4. The game was very early in the season (Jan 2012), so the young players like Green and Leonard were still very inexperienced (even though Green had a great game). Both players have matured and improved a lot throughout this season and in the first couple of rounds in the playoffs. On the other hand, the Heat were playing pretty much who they've been playing in the postseason with veterans who were who they are now, albeit with more familiarity.
5. Duncan wasn't the Duncan we've been seeing late in the regular season and in the playoffs. He was resting and taking it easy all season long to save himself for the playoffs, and he came into them playing as well as he has since the last championship run. A game changer by itself.
None of this is intended to prove or indicate that the Spurs are going to dominate the Heat or vice-versa, and is only intended to see that one regular season meeting between these teams as what it was. Virtually nothing can be gleaned from it in my opinion.
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On May 30 2012 03:46 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Just because the regular season game between the Spurs and the Heat was brought up, I took a look and it was a pretty interesting game that we can't really take too much from. A few notes:
1. The Heat were without Wade and it was one of the few games where it was Lebron and Bosh. Unsurprisingly to me (I still think that the big 3 don't mesh well with each other), they both played well and combined for 63 pts, 13 rbds, and 15 asts. Some people will take this as "if they did this without Wade, think about how much better they'd be with Wade!", but I don't think it's as simple as that. Obviously, the Heat are always better with Wade than without him, but it's highly unlikely that Bosh puts up those kinds of numbers or production with him playing.
2. Miller shot 6 for 6 and Chalmers shot 4 for 6 from behind the arc. I think it's safe to say that it was an aberration to say the least, and that the Heat are probably unbeatable if their role players are shooting 3s that well. Toss in the fact that Lebron went 4 for 6, Cole and Battier each shot 1 for 2, and a team total of 16 for 26 (61.5%), and the game becomes even more of an outlier. I know that the Spurs defense is not as good as it was in prior championship runs, but that kind of shooting doesn't happen simply because of bad defense.
3. As stated above, the Spurs were still playing RJ and were without Manu, SJax or Diaw. The upgrade is huge.
4. The game was very early in the season (Jan 2012), so the young players like Green and Leonard were still very inexperienced (even though Green had a great game). Both players have matured and improved a lot throughout this season and in the first couple of rounds in the playoffs. On the other hand, the Heat were playing pretty much who they've been playing in the postseason with veterans who were who they are now, albeit with more familiarity.
5. Duncan wasn't the Duncan we've been seeing late in the regular season and in the playoffs. He was resting and taking it easy all season long to save himself for the playoffs, and he came into them playing as well as he has since the last championship run. A game changer by itself.
None of this is intended to prove or indicate that the Spurs are going to dominate the Heat or vice-versa, and is only intended to see that one regular season meeting between these teams as what it was. Virtually nothing can be gleaned from it in my opinion.
Completely agree. Regular game comparisons and statistics shouldn't be used EVER as the end all be all proof.
I have a lot of respect for the spurs as a team, their organization. Same with OKC (i grew up in seattle). I am a fan of both OKC and heats, so I am not trying to come off as a biased fan when i bring up the whole okc/spurs vs heats debate.
All it is is that I've been constantly noticing how much people change their "opinions", after the fact. It's like when a team is playing extremely good they're all like "WOW this X team is the shit!", and then forget that not that long ago they failed miserably.
Didn't spurs get into the playoffs last season as the #1 west seed, and then lose in 6 games to memphis? Does that mean memphis is a better team? zzzzzz
i dont ever hate on teams that i like or respect - spurs definitely being in that group. I really enjoy seeing duncan play at a level reminiscent of his championship years. Only thing that bugs me is people bringing in regular season statistics as their main case to why spurs is the best team atm
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Spurs: too old
Celtics: way too old
I hope OKC wins vs MIA in the Finals. Would be a great storyline. MIA would have to do something. Trading Wade for Dwight would be interesting. :D
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On May 30 2012 04:41 Hadley_ wrote:
Spurs: too old
Celtics: way too old
I hope OKC wins vs MIA in the Finals. Would be a great storyline. MIA would have to do something. Trading Wade for Dwight would be interesting. :D
man i would completely hate that trade. mainly cuz wades been one of my favorite players for a long time, and im not particularly fond of dwight.
+ i think a lot of miami fans wouldnt dig it either :p
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Also because Wade is better than Dwight
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United States4471 Posts
On May 30 2012 04:41 Hadley_ wrote:
Spurs: too old
Celtics: way too old
I hope OKC wins vs MIA in the Finals. Would be a great storyline. MIA would have to do something. Trading Wade for Dwight would be interesting. :D
Spurs are too old for what? Here are the rotations for MIA and SAS for comparison:
MIA:
Battier (33)
Miller (32)
Haslem (31)
Jones (31)
Wade (30)
Anthony (29)
Turiaf (29)
Bosh (28)
Lebron (27)
Chalmers (26)
Cole (23)
Avg: 29
SAS:
Duncan (36)
Ginbili (34)
Jackson (34)
Bonner (32)
Diaw (30)
Parker (30)
Neal (27)
Splitter (27)
Green (24)
Blair (23)
Leonard (20)
Average: 28.8
Obviously, the Spurs' big 3 are older than the Heat's, but it's not like they need Duncan, Manu and Parker to be running and jumping like 21 yr olds for them to be successful with the way they play. The Spurs countered the age of their big 3 by adding youth around them, and it's worked out pretty well as they have the most potent offense in the league with a solid defense. The Spurs have weaknesses, but age isn't one of them.
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I don't think we'll ever trade wade, like ever. He's like MJ to Chicago. I think if we were ever to trade anybody it would be bosh more than anything, besides these guys are here to stay. That's what I feel like.
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On May 30 2012 05:28 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I don't think we'll ever trade wade, like ever. He's like MJ to Chicago. I think if we were ever to trade anybody it would be bosh more than anything, besides these guys are here to stay. That's what I feel like.
word. wade is their franchise player, even over lebron imo.
coming from a fan's perspective, im sure many of them would opt to keep wade in miami over lebron if such a scenario came up (just a personal guess)
and more than any of their big 3 being traded away, im sure spoelstra would be fired way before any changes in their big3 take place. hes done a good job imo, i feel bad for how volatile his specific position is - dude has to be getting more pressure as a head coach more than any other
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United States4471 Posts
On May 30 2012 05:10 Ace wrote:
Also because Wade is better than Dwight
In a vacuum, yes. But don't you think that Dwight would pair up better with Lebron and Bosh than Wade does? I still feel that there's too much overlap between what Wade and Lebron bring to the table, so the Heat may be better off picking one or the other. You only really need one ball-dominating, elite scoring, and offense-creating perimeter player, and I think both Lebron and Wade would benefit more from having a dominant Center than each other.
Dwight can be effective without the ball in his hands, leaving the offense to be dominated by Lebron (or Wade, depending on which they stick with) and Bosh, with only the occasional post up or lob dunk by D12. The upgrade in defense would be enormous. Add in two shooters (Chalmers and Miller/Battier), and you'd have probably the best two-way lineup in the league.
I'm not saying that the Heat should jump on the chance to make such a trade (talent is talent after all, and Lebron and Wade are arguably two of the top 5 in the league), but I don't think the analysis should be as straight forward as Wade > Dwight.
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doesn't matter, thats just media talk. Arison and Riley have never even shown a shake in confidence when it comes to Spoelstra.
Either way Miami's core of there 3 Stars + Coach is already top notch. Between those 4 nothing needs to change.
On May 30 2012 05:40 XaI)CyRiC wrote:In a vacuum, yes. But don't you think that Dwight would pair up better with Lebron and Bosh than Wade does? I still feel that there's too much overlap between what Wade and Lebron bring to the table, so the Heat may be better off picking one or the other. You only really need one ball-dominating, elite scoring, and offense-creating perimeter player, and I think both Lebron and Wade would benefit more from having a dominant Center than each other. Dwight can be effective without the ball in his hands, leaving the offense to be dominated by Lebron (or Wade, depending on which they stick with) and Bosh, with only the occasional post up or lob dunk by D12. The upgrade in defense would be enormous. Add in two shooters (Chalmers and Miller/Battier), and you'd have probably the best two-way lineup in the league. I'm not saying that the Heat should jump on the chance to make such a trade (talent is talent after all, and Lebron and Wade are arguably two of the top 5 in the league), but I don't think the analysis should be as straight forward as Wade > Dwight.
I still have to get to the whole "Lebron + Wade dont work well together" myth and I'll even throw in the issues you'd face with having Dwight over Wade. But the short answer is no - it wouldn't work even near to the same level. The biggest problem is that having Dwight doesn't substantially increase anything defensively for Miami, and their offense goes down the drain.
Really, the best thing having Dwight does is turn you into a monster rebounding team. You'll still win a lot of games, but you'd be kidding yourself thinking that Dwight brings anything close to what Wade brings to the table. You're talking about trading away a guy who is 95% Lebron for a dude who has never even been close to the level of either player. Ever.
Also side question: Lebron and Wade don't overlap as much as people think. But let's assume they did: Why would that be a bad thing? Remember: They are usually posted on opposite sides of the court for a reason 
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Ya, I don't think wade and lebron work that well off each other, or at least, more than just they do individually. But instead of getting another big player they should just fill it out with better role players and a better bench.
Just saying miami could be just as good with or without one of the big 3, but with more room outside their core.
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On May 30 2012 04:41 Hadley_ wrote:
Spurs: too old
Celtics: way too old
I hope OKC wins vs MIA in the Finals. Would be a great storyline. MIA would have to do something. Trading Wade for Dwight would be interesting. :D
Could you please go back and tell me the last time a "young" team beat an older team in the finals?
Go ahead I'll wait.
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Wade will never be traded from Miami. Book it. He was close to leaving in the free agency. I just don't see it happening.
Only player that would get traded from Big 3 is Bosh. And by the way, i think world would end if they brought Dwight to Miami.
I can imagine the hate. It would be thru the roof. Keep on building what you got with some role players and it's fine.
I sound like Miami already lost to Boston! Meh! Let's go Heat!
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Yeah, whether or not it would be a good trade tactically/strategically (I personally think Wade and Lebron work rather well together), trading Wade would be a disaster publicly because he is definitely Miami's franchise player. I like the guy a lot, too.
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EPT
