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On April 26 2012 04:45 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 04:38 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 04:20 S_SienZ wrote:On April 26 2012 03:45 sGs.Stregon wrote:
*note - there is a big difference when using the words Differ and Different. ex. a pitbull and a boxer DIFFER, a pitbull and a hamster are DIFFERENT* If two things differ, then they are different. How hard is that to understand. The only thing that won't be different from Brood War, is Brood War. The fact that it's called Wings of Liberty and plays differently is proof. Starcraft is the name of the franchise. "you cannot argue with an idiot, because they will just bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience", as my mother use to tell me. You can manipulate the way you use different to fit your argument all you want, it doesnt change the fact that they are,in fact, not different in the way that people imply. Sc/Bw and Sc2 are indeed different games. But they are not different games like WC3 and Diablo 2 are different games. So stop insinuating that they are. You can say they have similar properties. You cannot say that are not different games. That's what you have been saying, not even insinuating, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.
What I am getting at, is the way that people use that phrase "they are different games" does not apply, in the sense that they are using it.. Yes, they are different, but they are not League of Legends and Halo different. ((if they were, then Sc:Bw skills would not transition over to Sc2))
They are different, but the skills that a Flash/Jaedong/Bisu would have from Sc:Bw would transition too Sc2 very good, and trying to make an argument that they wouldnt, because they are different games, is not very informed, as some of the biggest names Sc2 has had up untill this point came from Sc:Bw backgrounds.
We can argue symantics all day, and you would win, because yes they are different games.. But if we got past the symantics of it, and delved into how people use that phrase "they are different games" i would be right, because people are missusing it.
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United States7639 Posts
On April 26 2012 04:38 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 04:20 S_SienZ wrote:On April 26 2012 03:45 sGs.Stregon wrote:
*note - there is a big difference when using the words Differ and Different. ex. a pitbull and a boxer DIFFER, a pitbull and a hamster are DIFFERENT* If two things differ, then they are different. How hard is that to understand. The only thing that won't be different from Brood War, is Brood War. The fact that it's called Wings of Liberty and plays differently is proof. Starcraft is the name of the franchise. "you cannot argue with an idiot, because they will just bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience", as my mother use to tell me. You can manipulate the way you use different to fit your argument all you want, it doesnt change the fact that they are,in fact, not different in the way that people imply. Sc/Bw and Sc2 are indeed different games. But they are not different games like WC3 and Diablo 2 are different games. So stop insinuating that they are.
So.... basically the only thing you've established is that SCBW and SC2 are both RTS. Good job! Brilliant.
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On April 26 2012 03:29 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:23 InoyouS2 wrote:On April 26 2012 03:21 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 03:16 InoyouS2 wrote:On April 26 2012 03:11 Fission wrote:On April 26 2012 03:08 InoyouS2 wrote:On April 26 2012 03:06 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 03:02 InoyouS2 wrote:
It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
It's going to be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid Sc2 fangirls come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu change to Sc2 and win everything. Hooray for immaturity, but I bet my bottom dollar that they will not dominate in Sc2. There has been a trend of strong tactical BW players doing extremely well in sc2. I don't expect every BW pro to come over and dominate, but the truly exceptional BW players will likely carry their intelligence and strategic insight into sc2 and stomp all over the likes of zergbong etc. IMMVP is one of the better bw players to switch (at the time of the switch, so don't give me a hard time about boxer, nada, july etc), and he really mauled the hell out of everybody badly before his injury got too severe. While the game was developing, the mechanics of brood war pros increased their chances of performing well at Sc2, which some did. However at the current point in the game's development, it will take a lot more than BW experience and mechanics to compete in Sc2, especially since Sc2 is a lot more coinflippy compared with BW. But at the end of the day they are both different games, so being good at BW may help in Sc2, but it definitely won't give you a free pass by any stretch, mostly I'm just shocked at how loud some BW fans are being, I like both games for different reasons and other people should be a little more accepting of new things. I am tired of this argument.. League of Legends and StarCraft 2 are two different games.. StarCraft/BroodWar and StarCraft2 are not different games, they are the same game, they just play a little differently. No, they are different games; saying Starcraft 2 is the same as Starcraft:BW is absolutely stupid. Prove your point please. Both have 3 races, the 3 races preform the same in each game ((besides Protoss and Terran basically being swapped in Sc2)), they both require you manage an economy while building infrastructer//an army. They both require you to use tactical desicions to achive goals. They both require scouting, and have tech paths for different situations that you scout. I can go on.. They are both the same game, they just play a little differently..Blizzard would not put the title StarCraft 2 onto a game that was different than StarCraft/Brood War, because not even they are that dumb..
It sounds to me like you think all Real Time Strategy games are the same o.O
In a RTS, as in other wargames, the participants position and maneuver units and structures under their control to secure areas of the map and/or destroy their opponents' assets. In a typical RTS, it is possible to create additional units and structures during the course of a game. This is generally limited by a requirement to expend accumulated resources. These resources are in turn garnered by controlling special points on the map and/or possessing certain types of units and structures devoted to this purpose. More specifically, the typical game of the RTS genre features resource gathering, base building, in-game technological development and indirect control of units.[4][5]
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy
Are Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie the same game? Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 2 (and 3)? Diablo I and Diablo II (and Diablo III)? Pokemon Red/ Blue and Pokemon Gold/ Silver? The next model comes from the same genre and obviously contains many (if not most) of the same elements that they original had. That's why it's a frickin sequel. The game creators and designers had success with the first, and they wanted to make another one. StarCraft 2 is the sequel to StarCraft 1.
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From the looks of it, SC2 is the prequel of BW. I mean, LAN and shit.
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to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums, and join your little fanboy clubs **for ex Sc:Bw pros/amateurs**..
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On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE F*CKING DIFFERNT, BUT NOT THE THE SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums..
Eventually, yes they will.
These players have natural abilities that most of us can only dream of. On top of that, they have hours upon hours upon weeks upon months upon years of more practice than most players have in any RTS setting (SC:BW is notorious for how grueling training can be in team houses - 8 hour days are common, without a pool and mansion in Arizona).
The assumption that they will immediately enter the pro-scene and win is incorrect. ForGG is a great example of this. Obviously he's not Flash, Bisu, etc- nobody is- but he's a good example of the quality you can expect from top-tier BW pros. The fact of the matter is there will obviously be a period where the mechanics these players acquired from BW will essentially cease to win them games. What I mean by this is that their opponents will also always make workers, never get supply blocked, and be able to micro effectively. This is usually mid-high masters Korea. At that point, these top pros will need to learn the nuances of the game. Keep in mind, for example, that Flash established Mech TvP in BroodWar, while that conversely is a nearly impossible avenue in StarCraft 2. That may change (and I hope to god it does), but at least for the moment these players are essentially going to learn a completely new style to play. While the matchup (ie TvP) is the same, the units, interactions, maps, graphics, interface, fuck it- basically EVERYTHING- else is different.
The top BW pros will be excellent SC2 pros, when they have trained and put in the time to learn the game. Until that point, they're just going to be really, really good players.
This concept is pretty basic, and should be understood to everyone. I see no reason to believe otherwise without citing bias or fanboyism as your evidence.
tl:dr Everyone needs to get over themselves. If you've watched SC:BW and SC2, there is no reason to not be excited about what Bisu will do with a warp prism. Oh wait, there's talk about him playing Terran, so that may be moot. There you are OP topic!
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On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE F*CKING DIFFERNT, BUT NOT THE THE GOD DAM SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT F*CKING PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums..
They are different games and it's very possible they won't experience the same level of success. You know why? Because the skill ceiling is lowered. Most people are under the assumption Flash would not dominate at the same level he did in BW. Why? Because it's easier, so the skill discrepancy isn't as apparent. Flash dominated because of insane mechanics as well as his ability to easily analyze what his opponent had and what he could have a bit from then. In SC2, mechanics are easier, thus his advantage is heavily diminished. At the same time, SC2 is ridiculously more volatile than SC1, considering that all of a sudden a Zerg in SC2 can make a million units at once when his injects finish, while a SC1 Zerg cannot (he will have to start preparing for the allin at least a full round prior). Same thing with warpgate timings, etc.
They work differently. All you've said is that they are both RTS, as I've stated earlier, and many other people have pointed out as well. That's a silly point, really. As Deep posted, they're sequels, so of course they share many similar traits, and it would be far easier to transition from one to the other. It doesn't detract from the point that they are still different games.
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On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums..
Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100%
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On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100%
Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/
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On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/
Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner.
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On April 26 2012 05:43 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/ Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner.
ForGG slumped in 2008 (i think? mabey 2009) and didnt really acomplish anything form that point on.. Trying to use him as an example of what it would be like if a top tier player like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong switched to Sc2, is not entirely fair.
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On April 26 2012 05:50 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/ Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner. ForGG slumped in 2008 (i think? mabey 2009) and didnt really acomplish anything form that point on.. Trying to use him as an example of what it would be like if a top tier player like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong switched to Sc2, is not entirely fair.
I'm aware, but he was still considered better than MVP. Hyun was also better than MVP.
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On April 26 2012 05:53 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:50 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/ Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner. ForGG slumped in 2008 (i think? mabey 2009) and didnt really acomplish anything form that point on.. Trying to use him as an example of what it would be like if a top tier player like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong switched to Sc2, is not entirely fair. I'm aware, but he was still considered better than MVP. Hyun was also better than MVP.
Hyun only got to top 30 in elo when he luckily beat Flash when Flash was in his over 2400 elo rampage. From that, Hyun gained so much point and for the rest of his BW career, he had a very mediocre record.
ForGG kept on doing 2 Factory power push play that the Protoss players knew what was coming and his Terran vs Zerg have had some really bad micro and macro.
While MVP was able to take one game from Flash that was strickly based on skills and pure micro/macro.
From this perspective, MVP was certainly a better player than ForGG and Hyun.
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On April 26 2012 06:33 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:53 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 05:50 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/ Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner. ForGG slumped in 2008 (i think? mabey 2009) and didnt really acomplish anything form that point on.. Trying to use him as an example of what it would be like if a top tier player like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong switched to Sc2, is not entirely fair. I'm aware, but he was still considered better than MVP. Hyun was also better than MVP. Hyun only got to top 30 in elo when he luckily beat Flash when Flash was in his over 2400 elo rampage. From that, Hyun gained so much point and for the rest of his BW career, he had a very mediocre record. ForGG kept on doing 2 Factory power push play that the Protoss players knew what was coming and his Terran vs Zerg have had some really bad micro and macro. While MVP was able to take one game from Flash that was strickly based on skills and pure micro/macro. From this perspective, MVP was certainly a better player than ForGG and Hyun.
Hardly. I don't consider the "take a single game off Flash" a valid argument, especially when he went 1-3 overall vs him, and had a sub 50% record. What matters was results, as far as I'm concerned. Flash still dominated the set.
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I think Bisu would make a better Terran, than he would a Protoss in Sc2.. But I would like to see him play Protoss in Sc2 too see if protoss can be thought of more than 1a ftw ((wether true or not, that is how people view that race))
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I really hope Bisu chooses Terran, it would be a joy to watch him play Terran with his insane mechanics.
Bisu, Terran welcomes you 
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On April 26 2012 03:25 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:58 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:[quote] Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn.  well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye.  Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
[quote]
well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. If by time and effort, you mean Flash getting to Masters during wrist surgery without even knowing what the new units did, then sure, I guess they'll take "time and effort". Also, I agree that SC2 is a completely different game, because I don't want to associate it with BW in any sense. But it's not like the two are different mechanically. What mechanics in SC2 actually take effort to learn if you're a BW player? There's not a single one I can name where BW mechanics actually makes it harder. If anything, a pro player like Bisu or Flash would just be staring at the user interface and laughing while they say "What? And I can 1a now too? lolololololol" Warpgates and injects can definitely take time getting used to.
lol that won't be hard for a brood war pro at all as SC2 requires A LOT less multitasking than Brood War.
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On April 26 2012 08:38 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:25 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 01:58 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
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well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:[quote]I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:
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Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. If by time and effort, you mean Flash getting to Masters during wrist surgery without even knowing what the new units did, then sure, I guess they'll take "time and effort". Also, I agree that SC2 is a completely different game, because I don't want to associate it with BW in any sense. But it's not like the two are different mechanically. What mechanics in SC2 actually take effort to learn if you're a BW player? There's not a single one I can name where BW mechanics actually makes it harder. If anything, a pro player like Bisu or Flash would just be staring at the user interface and laughing while they say "What? And I can 1a now too? lolololololol" Warpgates and injects can definitely take time getting used to. lol that won't be hard for a brood war pro at all as SC2 requires A LOT less multitasking than Brood War.
Yeah, well I mean I didn't mean that it would be hard, but rather it would take time getting used to. I played BW until SC2 release, I know full well how much harder it was^^.
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On April 26 2012 05:53 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:50 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 05:25 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 05:20 Iplaythings wrote:On April 26 2012 05:09 sGs.Stregon wrote:
to Kiett and DarkPlasmaBall
I am trying to make the argument that players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would still be top players IF they switched to Sc2, and trying to get past this B.S. argument that Sc:Bw and Sc2 are different games so players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong would not do well at it.. YES THEY ARE expletive DIFFERNT GAMES, BUT NOT THE THE expletive SENSE PEOPLE USE THAT expletive PHRASE.. JESUS H. CHRIST.
I am sorry that you feel the need to gangbang me for trying to defend Sc:Bw pros, mabey yall should find a home in the Starcraft2 forums.. Compare performances of fOrGG and MC and you got a good reason why skill might not transfer 100% Yout right, MVP was a second rate amateur in Sc:Bw and look at him =/ Despite MVP was one of the lessor A-teamers, not a second rate amateur, that's the point exactly. Skill didn't translate directly. People that performed better than MVP are performing worse, such as ForGG, a starleague winner. ForGG slumped in 2008 (i think? mabey 2009) and didnt really acomplish anything form that point on.. Trying to use him as an example of what it would be like if a top tier player like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong switched to Sc2, is not entirely fair. I'm aware, but he was still considered better than MVP. Hyun was also better than MVP.
All these players are lonewolfs too. It's not like they had their teammates, strategists and coaches with them when they transferred over. All of them have mediocre teammates (if you compare them to pro bw players) to practice with.
When one of the S-Class players decide to switch to SC2, you can bet that their teammates will want to follow as well and that's what's going to change the game. MVP trains with who? Zergbong? Flash will be practicing with Bisu, Jaedong, Fantasy, etc and all of the other legends. They probably won't stream either and play only in leagues where replays won't be released so people can't copy them step by step as they have in Brood War.
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EPT
