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This can't happen. T_T Bisu needs to revolutionize PvZ again. I imagine proxy pylons and warp prisms everywhere, harass from every direction and phoenix squads clearing overseers while DT's tear entire mineral lines apart. Bisu noooooooo.
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On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn.  well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye.  Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2.
- Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did'
Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then.
B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile.
So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in.
So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore
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On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2.
If by time and effort, you mean Flash getting to Masters during wrist surgery without even knowing what the new units did, then sure, I guess they'll take "time and effort".
Also, I agree that SC2 is a completely different game, because I don't want to associate it with BW in any sense. But it's not like the two are different mechanically. What mechanics in SC2 actually take effort to learn if you're a BW player? There's not a single one I can name where BW mechanics actually makes it harder.
If anything, a pro player like Bisu or Flash would just be staring at the user interface and laughing while they say "What? And I can 1a now too? lolololololol"
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I would choose Terran too in his shoes.
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On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:[quote] Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore
Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much.
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On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:[quote] Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
[quote]
well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much.
Yea.. how about you dont try making a fallacious argument.. Flash was gimped, he could not play Sc/Bw because of his surgery, and he was still able to get to Masters, without knowing any Build Orders, counters this that and the other thing. The fact remains, he was Gimped ((presumably only used one hand)) didnt know anything about the game, and reached masters no problem.. he can ((if he switch's, he will)) get Code S easily((better than Grand Master)), because he will know builds, he will have actually put in training and what have you.
For counter balance ((if you are intent on sticking to your fallacious arguments)) SKT already has a fair number of Grand Masters, if you belive all the Sc/Bw coach's.
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What's impressive is that he still didn't know what the new units did  . I think most BW pros would at least already try out sc2 for fun in their free time. Child labor terran ftw :|.
The only way I see TBLS not succeeding in sc2 is if they lose their spirit from being forced to switch & if some of them were already sick of being a pro. Since they are top tier of BW with ridiculous work ethic and talent, I doubt it applies to them much.
^well, no one would be surprised if A-/A iccup korean amateur got into masters on korean server, not knowing the BOs & how the units work. That'd be still better than almost every foreigner at the time when foreigners switched; although they would have to catch up on all the BO's, making up builds enough to get to masters would be intuitive.
Now, compared to the abstract korean amateur, Flash is bunch of levels higher (Flash > S class >> PL/SL regular >> A teamer >>> B teamer >> A-/A amateur > foreigner bw players / equal to top of them)
So yeah, not surprising.
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On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 24 2012 17:13 wassbix wrote:[quote] Floored me to realize that we're actually comparing MVP to Jaedong. A B-string woonjin terran to Jaedong. God. Damn. well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:On April 24 2012 12:04 snakeeyez wrote:
I think a lot of people will be disappointed when they watch these brood war legends lose games in starcraft 2 to stephano and other korean pros. I still dont see the huge skill gap between jaedong and someone like immvp that will let jaedong dominate immvp the majority of the time. Even better micro and multitasking I just dont see it consistently winning in this game. The hard counters and units dying so much faster and when jaedong gets his ramp force fielded while the hatch is taken out I dont think jaedong can micro out of that. Time will tell, but I would take the bet immvp can beat jaedong any day of the week at starcraft 2 no matter how long jaedong practices. I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
[quote]
well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much.
This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR.
For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR
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On April 26 2012 02:48 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
[quote]
well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:[quote]I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:
[quote]
Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR. For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR
And I'm ~1700 Terran EU and master on KR with Zerg in sc2. It doesn't say anything.
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On April 26 2012 02:53 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:48 Fission wrote:On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:
[quote]
Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T
People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching.
The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me.
[quote]
Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped.
But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way.
[quote]
Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR. For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR And I'm ~1700 Terran EU and master on KR with Zerg in sc2. It doesn't say anything.
Well, given as how 1700pts is impossible, you're full of shit. The highest anybody got last season was about 1400, and that was stephano on NA. What exactly are you trying to prove?
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On April 26 2012 02:53 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:48 Fission wrote:On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:
[quote]
Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T
People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching.
The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me.
[quote]
Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped.
But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way.
[quote]
Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR. For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR And I'm ~1700 Terran EU and master on KR with Zerg in sc2. It doesn't say anything.
wait a minute. so You are a Grand Master Eu Terran ((im assuming by the 1700, since i dont honestly know, but the guy you quoted plays masters/low GM's at 1200-1300)) and you were only able to make in into ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) masters league on KR?
So Flash is better than you? Because you have probley put in some time to get to that point,years of gaming if its anything like ICCUP/fish ((assuming you have been playing near its release)), and Flash barely knew anything about the game and reached ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) master league on KR, while being gimped.
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It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
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On April 26 2012 02:59 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:53 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 02:48 Fission wrote:On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:
[quote]
In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest.
I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is.
Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR. For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR And I'm ~1700 Terran EU and master on KR with Zerg in sc2. It doesn't say anything. wait a minute. so You are a Grand Master Eu Terran ((im assuming by the 1700, since i dont honestly know, but the guy you quoted is masters at 1200-1300)) and you were only able to make in into ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) masters league on KR? So Flash is better than you? Because you have probley put in some time to get to that point, numerous hours of gaming if its anything like ICCUP, and Flash barely knew anything about the game and reached ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) master league on KR, while being gimped.
That's not quite how the points work - his number is completely fictitious. The point is that flash was essentially playing at a level equivalent to most north america semi-pro players while not knowing anything about the game or it's strategy, which is just absurd and terrifying.
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On April 26 2012 03:02 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:59 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 02:53 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 02:48 Fission wrote:On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:
[quote]
WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players?
lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners.
Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all.
Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. This is true for NA masters, but not for KR. Masters on KR is more like mid-high GM NA/EU, and is filled with code A level players. Low Masters NA is about plat or high gold on KR. For reference: I play 1200-1300pt NA masters players and low GM's, but I'm low/mid diamond on KR And I'm ~1700 Terran EU and master on KR with Zerg in sc2. It doesn't say anything. wait a minute. so You are a Grand Master Eu Terran ((im assuming by the 1700, since i dont honestly know, but the guy you quoted is masters at 1200-1300)) and you were only able to make in into ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) masters league on KR? So Flash is better than you? Because you have probley put in some time to get to that point, numerous hours of gaming if its anything like ICCUP, and Flash barely knew anything about the game and reached ((the everybody and their mother can make it into)) master league on KR, while being gimped. That's not quite how the points work - his number is completely fictitious. The point is that flash was essentially playing at a level equivalent to most north america semi-pro players while not knowing anything about the game or it's strategy, which is just absurd and terrifying.
yes, but dont foget to mention that he was gimped while doing so ^
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On April 26 2012 02:39 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 24 2012 17:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
[quote]
well BW and SC2 are still different games, and while MVP isnt top notch in BW, he certainly was close to Bonjwa status in SC2. Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching. The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me. On April 24 2012 20:18 Askalaphos wrote:[quote]I believe that too. And because I don't want to see my heros get smashed by some Guys I hardly know, I don't think I make the transition to SC2. Time to say goodbye. Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped. But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way. On April 24 2012 18:47 phyren wrote:
[quote]
Honestly, he makes some reasonable points. SC2, as a game, really allows almost anyone to beat anyone else. It is very difficult to play a style that is safe against everything, even if you are willing to take a macro disadvantage to do so. Saying MVP will beat Jaedong consistantly is pretty insane, but I worry that TBLS wont be able to be as dominant in SC2. Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. Yea.. how about you dont try making a fallacious argument.. Flash was gimped, he could not play Sc/Bw because of his surgery, and he was still able to get to Masters, without knowing any Build Orders, counters this that and the other thing. The fact remains, he was Gimped ((presumably only used one hand)) didnt know anything about the game, and reached masters no problem.. he can ((if he switch's, he will)) get Code S easily((better than Grand Master)), because he will know builds, he will have actually put in training and what have you.
Sorry, but you can't just call someone out for a fallacious argument, not point out what was fallacious, then make unfounded statements about Flash's condition at the time of making Masters (mouse only, really?) and make the conclusion he will get code S upon switching.
There's a reason Kespa is keeping their progamers separate from GSL and vice versa for the new season of Proleague. The BW players would get schooled by current SC2 pro's and that would be bad for their league's image. Obviously not because they're untalented RTS players, but assuming BW players would just compete out of the gates is silly.
If you want to quote that article, there's plenty of coach banter that implies BW players aren't at the same level as current SC2 progamers in their respective game.
"
▶ How fast will the existing progamers adapt to SC2?
Fomos: When SC2 is incorporated, one of the major worries is that neither game will be at the high quality we are accustomed to. Let’s discuss.
STX Coach Lee: Right now, there is no point in comparing with GSL or other established SC2 leagues. Our job is to work hard to appeal to our fans in the best way possible.
CJ Coach Kim: I agree that we shouldn’t be comparing game level/quality with other established leagues, but fans will still compare. Then again, our fans have confidence in our progaming team system and the years of experience, so they will patiently wait for us to catch up and even exceed."
Also there's signs that BW skills don't transfer 1:1 to SC2;
"
Stars Coach Lee: I first thought that the better players in SC1 would be better players in SC2, but it didn’t hold true for everyone. It’s more of a case-by-case thing. Some players are only good at SC1, some only at SC2, and some are good at both. In any case, I’m confident that practice will make up for the gaps. Honestly, some of the players that were, let’s say, terrible at SC1, are now absolutely demolishing others in SC2. We all started at the same time, but already we’re seeing skill differences.
"
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On April 26 2012 03:02 InoyouS2 wrote:
It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
It's going to be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid Sc2 fangirls come up with IF Flash/Jaedong and Bisu change to Sc2 and win everything.
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On April 26 2012 03:06 sGs.Stregon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:02 InoyouS2 wrote:
It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
It's going to be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid Sc2 fangirls come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu change to Sc2 and win everything.
Hooray for immaturity, but I bet my bottom dollar that they will not dominate in Sc2.
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On April 26 2012 03:08 InoyouS2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:06 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 03:02 InoyouS2 wrote:
It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
It's going to be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid Sc2 fangirls come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu change to Sc2 and win everything. Hooray for immaturity, but I bet my bottom dollar that they will not dominate in Sc2.
There has been a trend of strong tactical BW players doing extremely well in sc2. I don't expect every BW pro to come over and dominate, but the truly exceptional BW players will likely carry their intelligence and strategic insight into sc2 and stomp all over the likes of zergbong etc. IMMVP is one of the better bw players to switch (at the time of the switch, so don't give me a hard time about boxer, nada, july etc), and he really mauled the hell out of everybody badly before his injury got too severe.
Edit:to be fair, even old, mechanically weaker players such as the above mentioned boxer,nada, july etc have done extremely well just because of their strategic prowess.
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On April 26 2012 03:06 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:39 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 02:31 Gosi wrote:On April 26 2012 01:55 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 01:36 Saechiis wrote:On April 26 2012 00:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 26 2012 00:44 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 00:03 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 25 2012 23:19 Myrddraal wrote:On April 24 2012 20:22 Zergneedsfood wrote:
[quote]
Except there's no such thing as a bonjwa status in SC2, and there shouldn't be. It'd taint the name of bonjwa, and saying MVP is a bonjwa compared to the likes of BW bonjwas......oh god it hurts my heart. T_T
People just need to stop denying the inevitable. If BW players switch they're going to smash the game to pieces and kick the crap out of everyone. If they weren't, then no SC2 fan would be excited about them switching.
The way SC2 fans are putting it: "Oh! BW players are switching! Yay! They'll change the game! But don't worry, they're going to be mediocre players who lose to the likes of GREAT PLAYERS like MVP and Nestea!" Like....so many things are wrong with that argument. Sounds like stupid talk to me.
[quote]
Why do you believe that? It's a dumb argument. That's basically like saying...that since Nada or iloveoov had so many years ahead of everyone in BW, then no new contender would ever beat them. Flash should get stomped. Jaedong should get stomped. Bisu should always get stomped.
But that didn't happen. They came in and dominated, and they dominated trash players like MVP and Nestea. It's going to happen again. People who think otherwise are pretty wrong to think that way.
[quote]
Does that mean it's a bad game? That the game is so easy that top players can get floored by noobies? That must suck to watch. :/ In time you might be correct that they will kick the crap out of everyone, but if you think that will happen straight away you are seriously kidding yourself. All the Brood War players that have switched so far have not dominated the scene, so it's retarded to assume that the majority that switch over will dominate. In time the top Brood War players are likely to become top Sc2 players assuming they do switch and keep their interest. I disagree with the point that anyone can beat anyone else, (see MVP, Nestea with 3 GSL's each and MC, MMA with 2 as well as general Korean dominance over foreigners) though it is certainly more volatile than BW is. Oh and by the way you have a terrible mindset, the whole SC2 fans/BW fans stereotyping is really childish, if all the BW players do switch over you will either become an SC2 fan or else you will stop watching, in which case I think the scene will be better off without you. WTF? So Nestea, MVP, MMA, MKP, etc. etc. weren't BW players? lol, you sound just like every other ignorant person who doesn't understand that the almost every top players are Koreans who have played BW at a high level, relative to foreigners. Also, I think my mindset is perfectly legitimate. If I think that SC2 is a garbage game that's not worth my attention, I'm going to think that way, and if BW pros switch, then I'm just not going to watch them. I don't understand how that's childish at all. Oh ZnF this is not going to end well ... not when you say sc2 is literally dog poo quality lol I don't care. If people are going to come in here and act like they understand BW while their posts show the exact opposite, I have no qualms about calling them out on it. And I'm going to admit, I'm not that informed either, but at least I know enough to not make the statement: "BW pros who have switched over have not done well." That statement is laugh worthy and should seriously be voted for as one of the most ignorant posts in the BW/SC2 discussion in a long time. No-one really said that I think, no-one's arguing former BW players have done well in SC2. Doing well is different from dominating though. It's a weird argument anyways, MKP, MC, MMA haven't become good at SC2 because they had a past in BW. They're this good because they practice hard and are talented RTS players. Writing their succes up to BW implies that BW and SC2 are the same game, SC2 just being a "light" version. Which time and time again has been proven wrong, SC2 is a completely different game and it requires a different skillset from it's players than BW does. So no, BW players aren't going to be dominating like the flick of a switch. Flash and Jaedong aren't going to step in and win on pure talent. They're going to have to put in the time and effort to rise to the current level of competition in Starcraft 2. - Ji-hoon 'During his (Flash's) rehabilitation, he got to Masters (in SC2) without even knowing what the new units did' Ok.. im going to leave ^ this ^ for you then. B.T.W. the rehabilitation that Ji-Hoon ((flash's coach)) was talking about, is the surgery he had on his wrist, that prevented him from competing in Sc/Bw for awhile. So in Conclusion, a GIMPED Flash is at least Master level on Sc2, a GIMPED Flash is AT LEAST Master level on Sc2, let that sink in. So yea, players like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu will still run the show if they switch over.. GGnore Well to be fair, anyone who has been playing sc1 some what seriously on iccup or fish will get to master league pretty easy on macro and overall mechanics alone. Master league is nothing impressive, it's not like A on iccup, nor B. There is so many bad players in master league it's kinda sad that it's so easy to get master league. If Flash would have gotten GM during the time he was injured and played vs current SC2 progamers it would have been impressive. Don't look into it to much. Yea.. how about you dont try making a fallacious argument.. Flash was gimped, he could not play Sc/Bw because of his surgery, and he was still able to get to Masters, without knowing any Build Orders, counters this that and the other thing. The fact remains, he was Gimped ((presumably only used one hand)) didnt know anything about the game, and reached masters no problem.. he can ((if he switch's, he will)) get Code S easily((better than Grand Master)), because he will know builds, he will have actually put in training and what have you. Sorry, but you can't just call someone out for a fallacious argument, not point out what was fallacious, then make unfounded statements about Flash's condition at the time of making Masters (mouse only, really?) and make the conclusion he will get code S upon switching. There's a reason Kespa is keeping their progamers separate from GSL and vice versa for the new season of Proleague. The BW players would get schooled by current SC2 pro's and that would be bad for their league's image. Obviously not because they're untalented RTS players, but assuming BW players would just compete out of the gates is silly. If you want to quote that article, there's plenty of coach banter that implies BW players aren't at the same level as current SC2 progamers in their respective game. " ▶ How fast will the existing progamers adapt to SC2? Fomos: When SC2 is incorporated, one of the major worries is that neither game will be at the high quality we are accustomed to. Let’s discuss. STX Coach Lee: Right now, there is no point in comparing with GSL or other established SC2 leagues. Our job is to work hard to appeal to our fans in the best way possible. CJ Coach Kim: I agree that we shouldn’t be comparing game level/quality with other established leagues, but fans will still compare. Then again, our fans have confidence in our progaming team system and the years of experience, so they will patiently wait for us to catch up and even exceed." Also there's signs that BW skills don't transfer 1:1 to SC2; " Stars Coach Lee: I first thought that the better players in SC1 would be better players in SC2, but it didn’t hold true for everyone. It’s more of a case-by-case thing. Some players are only good at SC1, some only at SC2, and some are good at both. In any case, I’m confident that practice will make up for the gaps. Honestly, some of the players that were, let’s say, terrible at SC1, are now absolutely demolishing others in SC2. We all started at the same time, but already we’re seeing skill differences. "
The Fallacious argument he makes, is that Masters is full of bad players, so its no big deal for a gimped player to reach it without knowing anything about the game. And Therefor Sc:Bw pro players cant compete out of the gate in Sc2.
Im honestly indifferent. I dont expect Sc:Bw pros to dominate the day they hit the scene, i look at it like the Sc:Bw coach's, its going to take time, but ill go a step further and say that they WILL exceed, just because they have the systems im place to exceed, where as the foreigne scene is just learning how to do some of the things that Sc:Bw pros have been doing for years.. But im a realist, and I do realise that its going to take a little while.. Even IF players like Flash/Bisu/Jaedong do switch over, im still going to root for TSL.Polt, because im a Polt fanboy, deal with it.
Im just sick of the snobbery that Sc2 players have, and the lack of respect they show twords Sc:Bw.. You could say the same about Sc:Bw players, but hey Sc:Bw has been around 14 years, the player base has earned their right to look down upon Sc2, and show a lack of respect to the new kid on the block.. Sc2 Players havnt earned the right to look down upon Sc:Bw yet, because they havnt surpassed Sc:Bw in any aspect, other than being more popular for foreigners.
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On April 26 2012 03:11 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:08 InoyouS2 wrote:On April 26 2012 03:06 sGs.Stregon wrote:On April 26 2012 03:02 InoyouS2 wrote:
It'd be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid BW fanboys come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu don't just change to Sc2 and win everything.
It's going to be really funny to see what kind of excuses these rabid Sc2 fangirls come up with when Flash/Jaedong and Bisu change to Sc2 and win everything. Hooray for immaturity, but I bet my bottom dollar that they will not dominate in Sc2. There has been a trend of strong tactical BW players doing extremely well in sc2. I don't expect every BW pro to come over and dominate, but the truly exceptional BW players will likely carry their intelligence and strategic insight into sc2 and stomp all over the likes of zergbong etc. IMMVP is one of the better bw players to switch (at the time of the switch, so don't give me a hard time about boxer, nada, july etc), and he really mauled the hell out of everybody badly before his injury got too severe.
While the game was developing, the mechanics of brood war pros increased their chances of performing well at Sc2, which some did.
However at the current point in the game's development, it will take a lot more than BW experience and mechanics to compete in Sc2, especially since Sc2 is a lot more coinflippy compared with BW. But at the end of the day they are both different games, so being good at BW may help in Sc2, but it definitely won't give you a free pass by any stretch, mostly I'm just shocked at how loud some BW fans are being, I like both games for different reasons and other people should be a little more accepting of new things.
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