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On April 09 2012 05:11 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:08 Gowerly wrote:
Starcraft 2 Pros aren't as good at Starcraft 2 as Brood War Pros are at Brood War.
This is mainly due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been around as long as Brood War, which means
- The game hasn't been balanced as well
- The players haven't had as long to practice/learn the game
When new generations of BW players turn up, they learn from the previous generation.
This is pretty much the first generation of SC2 players, so they're finding everything out from scratch.
Strategies and tactics will evolve.
You either like how SC2 is played, or you don't. It's not a "comparision with Brood War". They are essentially different games. You either like SC2 as a game or you don't. If you do, then great. Stick around. If you don't then that's just too bad, there are other games to enjoy. further to this. watching sc2 evolve from mostly one based, shitty play to what it has become today is just amazing to see. you are watching "strategy" evolve rather than seeing a polished product like sc:bw.
Exactly,that the main reason I watch sc2 nowadays.The evolution of the game is really interesting to observe and I'm kinda hopping it will still go a long way.
So maybe it would be a good idea to suggest that you go dig out old beta vods and watch the kind of game it was and the kind of a game it is now lol.Its really shockingly different.
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Good post death hobbit although I think it would help watching sc2 and not comparing it to bw and just take it as a different game and maybe just say it's warcraft 3 in space . Sc2 has different mechanics,different graphic,different units it definitely looks like starcraft but isn't although it does have the same name.
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On April 09 2012 05:11 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:08 Gowerly wrote:
Starcraft 2 Pros aren't as good at Starcraft 2 as Brood War Pros are at Brood War.
This is mainly due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been around as long as Brood War, which means
- The game hasn't been balanced as well
- The players haven't had as long to practice/learn the game
When new generations of BW players turn up, they learn from the previous generation.
This is pretty much the first generation of SC2 players, so they're finding everything out from scratch.
Strategies and tactics will evolve.
You either like how SC2 is played, or you don't. It's not a "comparision with Brood War". They are essentially different games. You either like SC2 as a game or you don't. If you do, then great. Stick around. If you don't then that's just too bad, there are other games to enjoy. further to this. watching sc2 evolve from mostly one based, shitty play to what it has become today is just amazing to see. you are watching "strategy" evolve rather than seeing a polished product like sc:bw.
Oh very much this. Early on in SC2 there was a lot of 1 and 2 base play, we've come so far since then. Heh.
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I embrace the fact that SC2 is so new, I think the fact that its so unexplored makes it exciting! Its fun when suddenly some pro starts using a build I have been using for a long time, its fun when someone suddenly realizes that unit X is actually pretty decent in situation Y, and generally the constant shifts in the metagame is interesting to me. I guess my main point is that SC2 is something new you can explore for many years ahead!
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Germany194 Posts
On April 09 2012 05:08 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:06 hegeo wrote:Kind of stating the obvious here, but maybe SC2 isn't the right game for you. Plain and simple. And you shouldn't wait for balanced and serious discussion when your first point is: Lack of Strategy – When I say “lack,” I mean relative to BW. Doesn't mean I can't understand the general direction you're coming from, but there is a reason why threads about religion are practically banned on TL. And this here has a nice religious touch. You're right, it might not be the game for me. The point of this thread is to give it an honest shot. Also, did you read how i defined strategy? I'm talking about things like maneuver and space control that i don't see as much in SC2.
Sure, I read it. I read your whole post (this is what one should if one wants to comment  .
In what you say about "strategy", I see your point, and I kind of agree.
But it's not about the way you define it, it is what people will see in it. It is like saying " You know, I'm a Christian, but I would really like to appreciate Buddhism more. But what I think is missing is 1) This good religious feeling. I'm defining religious feeling here as this "messias thing big plan of god" thing not this thing you call religious feeling."
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On April 09 2012 05:11 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:08 Gowerly wrote:
Starcraft 2 Pros aren't as good at Starcraft 2 as Brood War Pros are at Brood War.
This is mainly due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been around as long as Brood War, which means
- The game hasn't been balanced as well
- The players haven't had as long to practice/learn the game
When new generations of BW players turn up, they learn from the previous generation.
This is pretty much the first generation of SC2 players, so they're finding everything out from scratch.
Strategies and tactics will evolve.
You either like how SC2 is played, or you don't. It's not a "comparision with Brood War". They are essentially different games. You either like SC2 as a game or you don't. If you do, then great. Stick around. If you don't then that's just too bad, there are other games to enjoy. Again, it's not an issue of liking it or not. It's me trying to like it more, to see depth i currently don't notice, and asking you guys to help me do so. If you need help and it is not apparent to you at the offset then you're in trouble.
It is a case of liking it, but you're looking for reasons that you don't like it and trying to fix them. I doubt that this has ever worked or will work, really.
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On April 09 2012 05:12 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:11 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 05:08 Gowerly wrote:
Starcraft 2 Pros aren't as good at Starcraft 2 as Brood War Pros are at Brood War.
This is mainly due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been around as long as Brood War, which means
- The game hasn't been balanced as well
- The players haven't had as long to practice/learn the game
When new generations of BW players turn up, they learn from the previous generation.
This is pretty much the first generation of SC2 players, so they're finding everything out from scratch.
Strategies and tactics will evolve.
You either like how SC2 is played, or you don't. It's not a "comparision with Brood War". They are essentially different games. You either like SC2 as a game or you don't. If you do, then great. Stick around. If you don't then that's just too bad, there are other games to enjoy. further to this. watching sc2 evolve from mostly one based, shitty play to what it has become today is just amazing to see. you are watching "strategy" evolve rather than seeing a polished product like sc:bw. Exactly,that the main reason I watch sc2 nowadays.The evolution of the game is really interesting to observe and I'm kinda hopping it will still go a long way.
Fair enough, and I have seen this in the SC2 i have watched. The game certainly has gotten better, and i do suspect it will continue to do so, but that fact doesn't make me want to watch the game today by itself.
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SC2 is still being explored, the quality of play is better every month. HotS will also stir a lot of stuff.
Also, SC2 it looks prettier. Which is more important than many people think.
There can be no other arguments in SC2's favor honestly.
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I agree with all said statements. However, Starcraft 2 is open for a lot of good stories (Foreigners vs Koreans) and is of course more visually appealing. I would also like to state that Starcraft 2 is one third done. Wings of Liberty on the other hand, is finished. That being said, it took Blizzard to release and perfect Brood War to get it right. Give it some time.
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On April 09 2012 05:15 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:12 TheKefka wrote:On April 09 2012 05:11 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 05:08 Gowerly wrote:
Starcraft 2 Pros aren't as good at Starcraft 2 as Brood War Pros are at Brood War.
This is mainly due to the fact that SC2 hasn't been around as long as Brood War, which means
- The game hasn't been balanced as well
- The players haven't had as long to practice/learn the game
When new generations of BW players turn up, they learn from the previous generation.
This is pretty much the first generation of SC2 players, so they're finding everything out from scratch.
Strategies and tactics will evolve.
You either like how SC2 is played, or you don't. It's not a "comparision with Brood War". They are essentially different games. You either like SC2 as a game or you don't. If you do, then great. Stick around. If you don't then that's just too bad, there are other games to enjoy. further to this. watching sc2 evolve from mostly one based, shitty play to what it has become today is just amazing to see. you are watching "strategy" evolve rather than seeing a polished product like sc:bw. Exactly,that the main reason I watch sc2 nowadays.The evolution of the game is really interesting to observe and I'm kinda hopping it will still go a long way. Fair enough, and I have seen this in the SC2 i have watched. The game certainly has gotten better, and i do suspect it will continue to do so, but that fact doesn't make me want to watch the game today by itself.
Hehe that's fine,come back in like a half a year or a year or so and see if its more to your liking than
I don't really watch as much sc2 as I did before as well.There is no point really,a lot of games are just trash and a lot are just uninteresting but if there is a gem that pops up you can always go back and re watch it so you dont have to waste your time digging for gold.
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My advice is to make better threads (keep the text though) and to just forget aboute starcraft in general and go play some other game competitively, cuz I can say with full confidence that starcraft 2 isnt gona get any harder.
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The thing is I could make a nice post like yours with videos and analysis for SC2, and basically for any comptetitive game out there with some depth.
In the end it's still a matter of taste, I appreciate the fact that BW is a great game, but I don't want to watch it.
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Day9 is your friend man, watch his vod u will like this game after 10 commentated games.
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I think a lot of your criticisms are coming from SC2 gone past. The game has evolved quite a bit. I haven't watched too much of IPL but look at Idra vs ...whichever Korean Terran this time (Jjakji?). Count how long his roaches spent poking and delaying the tank push under constant fire and you'll find it equals most brood war battles. Then look at what Stephano does with his zerglings that resembles so much of what Saviour did.
And don't forget blink stalker mirrors on the micro side. I once saw Huk on 50%hp handicap use 6 stalkers to beat 8.
Lastly its entirely possible that its just because the BW screen is far more zoomed in. In BW each individual unit/building occupies a much greater percentage of screen space than in SC2 which gives it a larger-scope feel.
EDIT: And remember things like Bisu's dragoon v mines micro are the rare exception. Today Soo had a grand total of 5 mutalisks on the map and nothing else. He still managed to mis-micro them and target the hatchery rather than drones and failed to dance around the spore colony.
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I don't know why but even the a move units in brood war aren't boring to watch. Mass roach vs protoss is the most bland strategy ever and literally looks like a move fest. Mass hydra vs protoss in BW is also quite boring, but still tiers above the boringness that is mass roach. I don't know why tbh, maybe its the unit size, unit movement, the graphics, something.
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On April 09 2012 05:18 CrtBalorda wrote:
My advice is to make better threads (keep the text though) and to just forget aboute starcraft in general and go play some other game competitively, cuz I can say with full confidence that starcraft 2 isnt gona get any harder.
Orly?
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On April 09 2012 05:18 CrtBalorda wrote:
My advice is to make better threads (keep the text though) and to just forget aboute starcraft in general and go play some other game competitively, cuz I can say with full confidence that starcraft 2 isnt gona get any harder.
I'm not interested in playing SC2, just like I'm not interested in playing BW.
On April 09 2012 05:18 Acertos wrote:
Day9 is your friend man, watch his vod u will like this game after 10 commentated games.
Like i say in the post, I've watched almost every daily.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
BW would still be good if they decided to address the UI and Graphics when releasing SC2 but they decided to completely change the game and BW just had no where to go but change game completely(as in pro's go play SC2 or kill it off themselves) or to continue. They choose to continue. All westerners fell in love with SC2, boom BW gets "forgotten" about (BW fans turned into SC2 fans, or the BW fans only remained in the western world as hardcore fans and many just didn't follow it anymore)
For me personally, id watch BW any day of the week IF it had a decent UI and graphics...thats the only reason i fail to like it as many people do. Lemmings and Worms have 100x better graphics than BW and thus the reason i cannot watch it.
Today i watched Bisu vs Flash in the SK vs KT Ace match, and it was fun but i could not follow it for every tournament like i do with SC2 (well most)
Conclusion; i hope BW pro's come over to SC2 and make the lives of the gamers in SC2 realise how far away they are from the top level still and so the likes of flash jaedong bisu etcetctc can have a peice of the pie that SC2 has got to give. (lots of moneys to be made)
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On April 09 2012 05:19 Micket wrote:
I don't know why but even the a move units in brood war aren't boring to watch. Mass roach vs protoss is the most bland strategy ever and literally looks like a move fest. Mass hydra vs protoss in BW is also quite boring, but still tiers above the boringness that is mass roach. I don't know why tbh, maybe its the unit size, unit movement, the graphics, something.
This is pure nostalgia.
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Somehow I find TvT and TvZ in SC2 more fun than in BW.
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EPT
