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Very nice written post, but frankly I really don't see the point of it since people won't get it. There are many ignorant ppl to BW here. After watching the Proleague Finals today, I realized once more why BW is a more kickass game.
1) Battles last longer, due to imperfect unit AI compared to SC2, and also the high ground mechanics.
2) The game's resolution does not allow the player to command large armies easily as in SC2.
3) Macro is harder, so it takes longer to max out, if that point ever comes due to trading units throughout the game.
4) Gaining an advantage takes time, instead of one big engagement that determines the winner of the game.
5) You need less workers to saturate your minerals (and your gas) so you can field a bigger army.
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
But you also have to understand one important factor on why SC2 has kinda took off in the West (or why it's got popular even though it has these in my opinion, flaws that make BW a better game for a spectator) :
Most SC2 viewers just don't know about BW progaming and its history. Because of that, they don't really know what you mean until they actually check it out, and most likely the majority just doesn't care because SC2 is the game that possibly opened RTS progaming to their eyes, so people watch what they like and are used to.
However, very good post again, nice effort. Hope we can get more ppl to check BW.
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On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this....
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On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
Very nice written post, but frankly I really don't see the point of it since people won't get it. There are many ignorant ppl to BW here. After watching the Proleague Finals today, I realized once more why BW is a more kickass game.
1) Battles last longer, due to imperfect unit AI compared to SC2, and also the high ground mechanics.
2) The game's resolution does not allow the player to command large armies easily as in SC2.
3) Macro is harder, so it takes longer to max out, if that point ever comes due to trading units throughout the game.
4) Gaining an advantage takes time, instead of one big engagement that determines the winner of the game.
5) You need less workers to saturate your minerals (and your gas) so you can field a bigger army.
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
But you also have to understand one important factor on why SC2 has kinda took off in the West (or why it's got popular even though it has these in my opinion, flaws that make BW a better game for a spectator) :
Most SC2 viewers just don't know about BW progaming and its history. Because of that, they don't really know what you mean until they actually check it out, and most likely the majority just doesn't care because SC2 is the game that possibly opened RTS progaming to their eyes, so people watch what they like.
However, very good post again, nice effort. Hope we can get more ppl to check BW.
Thing is, while they may be a minority in the SC2 community, there are lots of people who watch SC2 who watched BW before. Moreover, getting people to watch a game that soon won't be played at the professional level doesn't really seem feasible. Thus, the thread.
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What a loaded thread.
Nobody here can make you appreciate SC2 if thats what you are after.
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On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this....
If you count carpet fungalling or stutter step as really things that reward good control, then as I've said, you really haven't watched BW enough (or any).
Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what other units you think are there in SC2 that you can increase its value hugely with good control?
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its useless to discuss with sc2 fanboys deafhobbit
i stopped talking about sc2 and deinstalled it
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On April 09 2012 04:34 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:31 MonkSEA wrote:
How can we be helping you?
This is just a list of reasons why you think SC2 is worse compared to BW. I say quite explicitly how you can help me, and that i don't view this as a list of reasons why SC2 is worse than BW. I'd like to have a real discussion here, and you're not helping.
Maybe this is my failing as an SC2 player who only casually follows BW, but I really don't understand points 1 and 3. Are you saying that players don't exploit positional advantages in SC2? That they don't drop multiple areas at a time, or pull an opponent's army back and forth? That they aren't capable of quick focus-firing and spreading units, or doing pickup-drop micro? All these things are commonplace at the top level of SC2. I watched the videos in the OP, but I'm just not seeing your point.
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On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this....
I think the difference between the BW community and the SC2 community can be summed up with this post specifically.
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What a pretentious post. I cannot believe someone would have the audacity to post this with a straight face.
If you seriously "need help" to enjoy watching a video game then there is something wrong. Just don't watch it, nobody cares.
Plus, unless any of the Brood War games you linked are from 2000 then everything you said is pretty much irrelevant.
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On April 09 2012 04:47 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... If you count carpet fungalling or stutter step as really things that reward good control, then as I've said, you really haven't watched BW enough (or any). Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what other units you think are there in SC2 that you can increase its value hugely with good control?
Please for the love of God don't do this. Nothing will ruin this thread faster than turning it into a SC2 v BW debate, which is exactly the opposite of what i intended.
On April 09 2012 04:49 CuSToM wrote:
What a pretentious post. I cannot believe someone would have the audacity to post this with a straight face.
If you seriously "need help" to enjoy watching a video game then there is something wrong. Just don't watch it, nobody cares.
Plus, unless any of the Brood War games you linked are from 2000 then everything you said is pretty much irrelevant.
I don't "need" it, i want it.
Also, i don't want to enjoy Sc2 in 12 years, i want to enjoy it today.
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Finland377 Posts
On April 09 2012 04:49 TaShadan wrote:
its useless to discuss with sc2 fanboys deafhobbit
i stopped talking about sc2 and deinstalled it
Thanks for the info man, I almost care! Oh and if you have uninstalled sc2 already, stick to your BW forums, alright?
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On April 09 2012 04:47 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... If you count carpet fungalling or stutter step as really things that reward good control, then as I've said, you really haven't watched BW enough (or any). Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what other units you think are there in SC2 that you can increase its value hugely with good control?
all units require good control to maximize their benefit. saying that you can just 1a everything and get maximum benefit from units is just stupid.
i played bw since 1998, and all of the blizzard games before then. it was a great game.
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On April 09 2012 04:47 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... If you count carpet fungalling or stutter step as really things that reward good control, then as I've said, you really haven't watched BW enough (or any). Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what other units you think are there in SC2 that you can increase its value hugely with good control?
Marine. MKP vs Parting yesterday is pretty insane.
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On April 09 2012 04:49 FuRRyChoBo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... I think the difference between the BW community and the SC2 community can be summed up with this post specifically.
not sure what you mean by that. this guy is making ignorant comments about how sc2 is played. ask anyone who plays and is good at sc2 and they will tell you that you cant just 1a your armies and expect maximum benefit. all units require good control to maximize benefit.
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On April 09 2012 04:25 FuRRyChoBo wrote:
It's a really rough transition to make because as a Brood War fan (I played BW semi-religiously from 1998-2010), you expect SC2 to match, or at least come close to, what Brood War meant to you. Not only does SC2 not have the history, but the dynamics of the game are different:
1) Economic harass is much less effective since workers return fewer minerals per trip and can be replenished much more quickly.
2) Splash damage is much more prevalent, and micro-negating spells are unavoidable.
3) Both macro and micro are easier, but coming from the same approach that you seem to be, even "incredible" micro in SC2 does not come anywhere near how watching a BW legend feels, even on a bad day.
4) The BW term "strategic play" has become "cheese," and it isn't punished nearly as hard as it is in BW because of inject/chrono boost/mules.
This is how I felt about the game when I first transitioned after finding it impossible to play BW on my new PC. I've developed these opinions a little bit more and I still conclusively feel that BW is, and will always be, the better game, but SC2 is a pretty good replacement if there has to be one.
Apparently marine splitting can't compare? This post is just so wrong on so many levels. There is no limit to how good marine splitting can get just as one example. No human will ever be able to reach perfect splitting.
How about the Dark archon and arbiter having micro-negating spells that were just as unavoidable as a fungal growth? Stop looking at your favorite game with rose coloured glasses.
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On April 09 2012 04:51 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:47 Bleak wrote:On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... If you count carpet fungalling or stutter step as really things that reward good control, then as I've said, you really haven't watched BW enough (or any). Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what other units you think are there in SC2 that you can increase its value hugely with good control? Marine. MKP vs Parting yesterday is pretty insane.
Thank you for the recommendation. If vods for IPL are free, I'll check it out.
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Did you see the GSTL final game between MKP and Parting last night? Did you watch the GSL finals last season and the season before that? The finals at Blizzcon and the final between Mvp and MMA? Every season of the GSL Code S you find great games between top players that are back and forth, nail biting and extremely close. The GSTL has some great series' that are also very back and forth, have well calculated cheese and close defensive games with great come-backs. I am also a fan of BW but I have never even thought of comparing the two because they are very different. Trust me, I've seen very boring games of broodwar and games that you find play that is just very lackluster. There are more games of SC2 to watch so of course you will find unexciting games from time to time.
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On April 09 2012 04:53 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:49 FuRRyChoBo wrote:On April 09 2012 04:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 09 2012 04:43 Bleak wrote:
6) There are tons more positional units and more units that can be increased in value with good micro. Aside from Sentry and Blink stalkers, there's really no Unit in SC2 that rewards good control.
do you even play sc2? what kind of stupid comment is this.... I think the difference between the BW community and the SC2 community can be summed up with this post specifically. not sure what you mean by that. this guy is making ignorant comments about how sc2 is played. ask anyone who plays and is good at sc2 and they will tell you that you cant just 1a your armies and expect maximum benefit. all units require good control to maximize benefit.
lol apparently marines dont benefit from control. This guy should tell MKP to stop splitting them I guess.
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@zuor
you seem to care cause you replied
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On April 09 2012 04:53 WArped wrote:
Did you see the GSTL final game between MKP and Parting last night? Did you watch the GSL finals last season and the season before that? The finals at Blizzcon and the final between Mvp and MMA? Every season of the GSL Code S you find great games between top players that are back and forth, nail biting and extremely close. The GSTL has some great series' that are also very back and forth, have well calculated cheese and close defensive games with great come-backs. I am also a fan of BW but I have never even thought of comparing the two because they are very different. Trust me, I've seen very boring games of broodwar and games that you find play that is just very lackluster. There are more games of SC2 to watch so of course you will find unexciting games from time to time.
I haven't seen those games, and I'm hesitant to pay to watch SC2 at this point. Are there any other games you would recommend?
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EPT
