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I've been searching this on TL, and most of what I found was about hotkeys, or about brood war, so if there was a thread about this that I didn't find, please show me and close this thread.
So I've been losing a couple of games, that I think I can blame on my control groups sometimes, but I don't know yet.
I've been looking at korean terrans play (like polt, boxer, mkp, mma, jjakji, etc.) and I see their hotkeys, I understand some of them, but a lot of them don't make any sense to me...
Like I was watching a game with mma, and he hotkeyed his whole army, siege tanks, marines, vikings, everything. Everybody told me to hotkey all of my army separately, and that's what I've been following ever since, what is the reason he does this?
I was watching Polt, and he hotkeys his main to 0 and the rest of his expansions to 9. I have no idea why he does this, maybe so he can select an scv and build there? I don't know.
I haven't looked at most of the others, those are the 2 main ones that I've been looking at.
This is my layout so far, and I don't think that it's very good, if you can help me improve, or give me an entirely new layout I would like that.
1- Main army, bio units, medivacs, I also put thors here, but if not I can easily move it to 2
2. Siege tanks, if against protoss then its for ghosts, and other mech units
3. Vikings, other air units, maybe casters. If I have this empty or if the units are not being used, I will hotkey medivacs for drops here.
4. Rax
5. CC's
6. Factories
7. Starports
8. Not used
9. Armies
0. Engi bays
Help!!!
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I use the exact same layout except for:
4. CC
5. Rax
(army production is consecutive 5-6-7)
instead of your
4. Rax
5. CC
and I have no issues whatsoever
I think it's fine as long as you can easily access units/buildings quickly
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What I was doing:
1: Fact
2: rax
3. CC
4. Starport
5-8: Units
0: upgrades
----
What I'm changing to doing:
1: Buildings!
2. Upgrades
or
1. some buildings!
2. Some other buildings!
3-8: units!
0: upgrades
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1-2. army
3. Special units (ravens, ghost, etc.)
4. Rax
5. Factory
6. Starport
7-8. Misc. units (scouts, etc)
9. CC
0. Upgrades
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Is it bad that all my production buildings (Rax, Fact and SPort) are on one group (5)? I can tab without problems usually, but its definitely slower than using 5-6-7.
And when I go mech for example, i remove the 1st rax i get from my group so i can lift it ar ound and not move it every time i change my rally point (ive stopped a building from making an addon sooo many times  ). The problem is, that im used to tabbing once to start making tanks. It usually goes like EE (2 Hellions on reactored Fact) -> Tab -> i try to make some tanks and then i realise that im on my starports. Its just a bad habbit of going marine-tank for a long time
I presonally use 1 for MMM / marines / hellions, 2 for Tank Thor, 3 for Ghost (viking if no ghosts), 4 CC, 5 Production(rax etc) and 9/0 for drops/engi bay. The problem is when I have both ghosts, vikings and ... ravens on top of that. Im used to placing too much stuff on control groups so I really struggle in such situations.
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On March 09 2012 11:53 FHC Nex wrote:Is it bad that all my production buildings (Rax, Fact and SPort) are on one group (5)? I can tab without problems usually, but its definitely slower than using 5-6-7. And when I go mech for example, i remove the 1st rax i get from my group so i can lift it ar ound and not move it every time i change my rally point (ive stopped a building from making an addon sooo many times ). The problem is, that im used to tabbing once to start making tanks. It usually goes like EE (2 Hellions on reactored Fact) -> Tab -> i try to make some tanks and then i realise that im on my starports. Its just a bad habbit of going marine-tank for a long time
I used to put rax/fact/port on one key too, make the switch. It will take a few games to get used to it but it will save you from using apm on tabbing.
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1 - Bio
2 - Mech
3 - Air
4 - Caster
5- Rax
6- CC
7 - Factories
8 - Starports
9 - Ebay & Armory & anything that has upgrade
0 - Scout or Drop
This is mostly what i use, hope it's helpful
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Mine is
1- CC's
2. Main army
3. Vikings,
4. Ghost(TvP) Other Match up drops
5. Rax
6. Factories
7. Starports
8. Eng Bay & Armory
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` - Idle scv
1 - main army
2 - marines (for zerg), ghosts (for protoss), depends on the time in game
3 - vikings
4 - barracks
5 - CC's
6 - Factory
7 - engi bays and armory
8 - starport
9 - usually only a viking that patrols the map for overlords
0 - upgrading tech lab
F1, F2, F3, F4 - jump to locations 1,2,3,4
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I also want to know the reason maybe why the pro korean's that I were mentioning, their control group layout, maybe why they are doing that.
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1. All bio (you can tab through for ghosts)
2. Tanks, or sub bio for bio split against banes / or sub bio group for 2 pronged attack.
3. rax
4. factory
5. starport
6. upgrades
7. (used soly for drops)
8. (used soly for drops)
9. Planetary fortresses
0. Orbital Commands / CC's
This works for me everything is close together for the most part. You just have to find what ever works for you, everyone's though process is different so no one set control group is going to work for everyone.
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My zerg-influenced keys (where I 1-hatches 2-queens 3-main army)
1. CCs
2. Main production (raxes if bio, facts if mech)
3. Main army
4. Secondary production (just depends on the comp I'm building. Usually factories TvZ and starports in other matchups)
5. Tertiary production (whatever's not on 2 or 4)
0. Ebay/Armory
3-a, etc. is just so much easier on my hands than with 1 or 2, I can't explain why.
I probably don't use as many control groups as I should for combat. I click the minimap a lot and micro my armies mostly with the mouse.
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w=0
q=9
§=8
So
1 Hole army
2 Air units
3 Rax
4 cc
5 fac
6 port
7 some drops
8 Armory / ebay
9 bio
0 ghosts
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it doesn't really matter what layout you use. no one can really give you a layout that's "better." the only important thing is to be consistent. as long as your using the same hotkeys game by game, you're going to become comfortable and skilled.
some pros don't use separate hotkeys for army because of their speed. they can box, ctrlclick, etc fast enough to manage big engagements.
the only reason i can imagine for Polt hotkeying expansions separate from his main is saving energy. with one orbital not in the main group, he doesn't have to worry about overMULE'ing when he needs to save scans. idk for sure though.
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1. Army
2. Drop / banshee / reaper
3. Drop / banshee / reaper
4. CCs
5. Raxes
6. Facts
7. Starports
It works well in the early game but I need to start utilizing 2 and 3 better later on. Probably putting vikings on 2 and ghosts on 3 or something.
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I combine my command centres, engineering bays, and armories into one hotkey. It makes checking on upgrades really easy 
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I remapped 8, 9 and 0 to ~, spacebar, and middle mouse button respectively.
F1 is map location 1 so I can reach map locations F1-F8 more easily, idle worker is displaced to ALT.
So, my layout:
~: scout/ dropship 2/reapers/hellions
1: marines, medivacs, thors
2: marauders
3: tanks
4: ghosts/ravens
5: CC's/armories/eng bays
6: barracks
7: factories/starports
Spacebar: dropship 1
middle mouse: vikings or banshees. Very unlikely that I'll have both in any given game.
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This is what I use an it's been working fairly well for me:
1 - Ground Army
2 - Air units
3 - special army
4 - natural command
5 - main command
6 - rax
7 - fact
8 - starport
9 + 0 - more expos
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Different pros use what works for them. MMA likes using his mouse for things mostly, for example, he puts all production buildings on 1 hotkey, and tabs through them to make units. As you stated, he also uses 1 hotkey for his army and relies on his rapid mouse control in battle.
Mvp on the otherhand, uses separate hotkeys for barracks, factories, and starports and separates his army into hotkeys.
It's really about personal preference. For instance, I, a Masters Zerg, have remapped q,w, and e as control groups and use 1 for lings/roaches, 2 for banes, 3 for mutas, q for infestors, w for corrupters, and e for brood lords. That way I never have to think about which units are on what hotkeys because that was something I found i struggled with.
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High masters terran:
1 - Main slow army
2 - Hellions(mech)/Ghosts
3 - Air/drops/
4 - Production (rax, facts, ports)
5 - CCs/OCs/PFs
6 - Armories/Ebays
7-0 - harass
f2 - Main
f3 - Nat
f4 - Third
f5 - Fourth
f6 - Fifth
etc...
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I've been using this setup since shortly after I started playing and it's worked well enough:
1-4 - units, varies according to what stage of the game/unit composition I have. Armies tend to be on 1-3 while single units/small groups of units I'm using for specific tasks like harass are on 4.
5 - CCs
6 - Barracks
7 - Factories
8 - Starports
9 - Engineering Bays
0 - Armories
F2-F5 are for expansions.
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1)
- Main army
2)
- Early game : scout
- Midgame/lategame : Tanks, Vikings, Banshees, Dropship(s)
3)
- Early game : tech labs
- Midgame/lategame : ghosts, ravens, dropship if I am doing 2 drops simultanouesly while pushing an expo with main army.
4) CCs
5) Raxes
6) Factories
7) Starports
8) Ghost Academy/Fusion Core
9) Armory
0) Ebays
F1) Main
F2) Natural/Ramp if 1 base play
F3) Third
F4) Fourth
F5) Idle workers
Space = tab between bases
Side Mouse Button 1: Remapped to Space
Side Mouse Button 2: Remapped to F2
Scroll : Remapped to Idle Workers
0 : Remapped to ~
Also remapped most of the unit buildings keys, took me close to 3 weeks of play to get used to it (almost caved in and went back to standard keys in frustration during the period of getting used to new keys) and now I am very satisfied.
As for watching progamers, it seems everybody has their preference. One thing I noticed is that IM_MVP likes to change his 1 hotkey alot to whatever group of unit he is active with, also at times he wont have anything hotkeyed and rely on boxing stuff rather than setting new ctrl groups till midgame/lategame where his hotkeys become more stable.
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1 SCV production
2 all production
345army
6 ups
789 etc.
0 detection
Considering moving ups on 1 to maximize army control group consistency. You don't hit it that often.
f2 f3 f4 f5
Bases in that order of taking. You can always change em. If I'm planning a cheese, f4 their nat.
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I like to don't use control groups.
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I don't know why people are giving advices on how you should hotkey your control groups.....
My advice: ignore all these advices/ what pros do, simply go for whatever you r comfortable with and you can use it for all kinds of RTS games.
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Yeah actually I just group them to random numbers (whichever is closest to my hand at that moment.)
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1 cc
2 army
3 rax
4 factory
5 port
9 0 whatever i keep a close eye on. drop, ghosts etceteetecetetettee
engy and armory are always near my cc. so i rebinded space bar to command center and glance at it to see if theyre researching.
i wanted to change it but my muscle memory doesnt allow me to
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On March 09 2012 11:23 Absurd Bunny wrote:
I've been searching this on TL, and most of what I found was about hotkeys, or about brood war, so if there was a thread about this that I didn't find, please show me and close this thread.
So I've been losing a couple of games, that I think I can blame on my control groups sometimes, but I don't know yet.
I've been looking at korean terrans play (like polt, boxer, mkp, mma, jjakji, etc.) and I see their hotkeys, I understand some of them, but a lot of them don't make any sense to me...
Like I was watching a game with mma, and he hotkeyed his whole army, siege tanks, marines, vikings, everything. Everybody told me to hotkey all of my army separately, and that's what I've been following ever since, what is the reason he does this?
I was watching Polt, and he hotkeys his main to 0 and the rest of his expansions to 9. I have no idea why he does this, maybe so he can select an scv and build there? I don't know.
I haven't looked at most of the others, those are the 2 main ones that I've been looking at.
This is my layout so far, and I don't think that it's very good, if you can help me improve, or give me an entirely new layout I would like that.
1- Main army, bio units, medivacs, I also put thors here, but if not I can easily move it to 2
2. Siege tanks, if against protoss then its for ghosts, and other mech units
3. Vikings, other air units, maybe casters. If I have this empty or if the units are not being used, I will hotkey medivacs for drops here.
4. Rax
5. CC's
6. Factories
7. Starports
8. Not used
9. Armies
0. Engi bays
Help!!!
Actually pretty easily explained. Progamers from BW are used to using all 10 hotkeys so their hand is always near the middle. That's why they tend to hotkey CCs to 0 and 9 because it's a leftover habit from bw. And because of that, they also can hotkey their production each to a different hotkey if they want. However if you play like me and keep your hand on the left side (asdf) I recommend you compress your hotkeys a bit more and hotkey the production all to one.
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You can bind control groups to letter keys. Using this you can create a very simple layout. Focus on minimizing hand movement and awkward finger angels - reduces chances of hand pain/damage. Don't forget poor TLO
I use F, G, V & B as my main army control groups. CRAZY! I know, but If you quickly go f,a,g,a,v,a,b,a (as if you would attack with 4 control groups in SC2!) you will feel how comfortable it is for your hand.
All functions (stim/ siege/ Snipe /etc.) are rebound to W and E. This way W & E do almost everything. Almost like A & B on a Nintendo.
Notice how pressing f,w, or g,e, is still very comfortable.
CC on 1 with scan on E. Notice with ring finger on 1 your index naturally falls on the E. Very fast and smooth minimizing error. Try to set it up this way.
Q -Rax
2- Fac
3- Port
A lot has to be rebound when you start to use letters as control, but it is really nice once you create a good system. Play around with it and have fun.
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I like to put all production on one hotkey so it's quicker to re-rally and check for constant production. I use tab (rebound to a mouse button) to cycle between between building groups within a control group. This method slows down your apm a bit compared to isolating each building on its own hotkey, but I think it's definitely worth it for Terrans (maybe not Protoss though).
Also remember that you can rebind your control groups to other letters on the keyboard. It's tough to reach 7 through = from WASD. I remapped all my hotkeys around ESDF. So here's how I do my control groups:
1: OCs+PFs (I use camera saves for when I want to jump to a specific base)
2: Depot wall
3: Ebays+Armories+Ghost Academies+Fusion Cores
4: Barracks+Factories+Starports
5: Primary ground army (MMM or Hellions)
6: Secondary ground army (Tanks or Thors)
T: Air army (Vikings or Banshees)
G: Spellcasters (Ghosts or Ravens)
Y: Harass#1 (Variable)
H: Harass#2 (Variable)
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Put your ebays and/or armories in your CC control group and your upgrades will be spot on.
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I feel like there's not that many with my hotkey setup, but it works just fine for me.
1 - CC
2 - Barracks, Factories, Starports
3 - Scout SCV / Hellions / Ghosts/ Tanks
4 - Main army (Bio, Medivacs, Tanks etc.)
5 - Vikings / Half of main army
6 - Engineering Bay, Armory
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1 Army
2 Tanks/Ghosts (been working on this, 1control group army FTW)
3 Factories (3e [hellion] 3s [tank] 3t[thor] flows very nicely) (rebound pre-ignitor upgrade to E instead of I)
4 CC
5 Barracks
6 Starports
7 Engineering bays + Armories
8 not used
9 not used
0 rebound to foward mouse button, rarely used though
I would really like to rebind some hot keys so control groups would be easier, 1a2a is very clunky.
I'm considering rebinding tanks to R instead of S. It seems every time it hit 3 (middle finger), my index finger finds it way from F to R and 3r is more fluid than 3s.
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i using this
1. Mainarmy
2. Support Army ( tank& air units)
3. ghost
4. all CC
5. Rax
6. Fact
7. Starport
8. Enginering Bay
9-0 . CC
i also use Location screen
F1 for my main
F2-F7 for my other bases
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My hotkeys:
1 - mmm
2 - tanks/drops (vs protoss this is vikings)
3 - cc's (this changes to 0 once i need 3) (i use this for ghosts)
4 - baracks
5 - factories
6 - starports
7 - addons (upgrades once i have ebay/armory)
0 - cc's only
F1 - F7 locations
After reading this topic:
1 - main army
2 - tanks/drops
3 - cc's
4 - baracks
5 - factory
6 - starports
7 - ebay/armory/addons
8 - drop
9 - drop
q - vikings/banshee/raven
w - ghosts
f1 - f7 locations
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Don't copy someone's setup. Take a few hours and create your own, then force yourself to use it. Then play a ton. Thats the secret to mechanics, but there is no shortcut
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United States7488 Posts
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EPT
