The bad people who claim they are muslims are in fact not muslims. Why should our religious community take responsbility for people who don't even follow Gods bidding.
Yes they are muslims, they interpret that what is in the Koran different than you and that's what makes them just as right in their beliefs as you are. In the Koran there is in fact written to kill non believers. YOU think that is means with kind words or something; But THEY think it's just as it is written there. They are just as muslim as you are. They do what they believe in, and the root is the Koran. You can't just say they are not muslim, because if they believe they are muslim, and act upon what they read in the Koran, they are indeed muslims. And that's why you, as a fellow muslim, HAVE to take responsibilty.
The bad people who claim they are muslims are in fact not muslims. Why should our religious community take responsbility for people who don't even follow Gods bidding.
Yes they are muslims, they interpret that what is in the Koran different than you and that's what makes them just as right in their beliefs as you are. In the Koran there is in fact written to kill non believers. YOU think that is means with kind words or something; But THEY think it's just as it is written there. They are just as muslim as you are. They do what they believe in, and the root is the Koran. You can't just say they are not muslim, because if they believe they are muslim, and act upon what they read in the Koran, they are indeed muslims.
Also don't both sides say each other are not really Muslim? just wondering?
On February 05 2012 00:02 Twelve12 wrote: my question:
Do you think women are treated unjustly in Islamic countries? and do you think maybe the way women are described in the Quran has anything to do with this?
I'd like to take a quote to prove how valuable our women are too us.
Eve was created from a rib taken from the side of Adam, signifying that she was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, to be loved and protected by him.
The word woman and the word man are both in the Quran 25 times each, for equality. Some women are treated unjustly, this goes on in the whole world. Including Sweden a very modern european country, which gives men more pay for the same work if for say a woman worked there. What do you mean with "The way women are described in the Quran"?
Yes they are muslims, they interpret that what is in the Koran different than you and that's what makes them just as right in their beliefs as you are. In the Koran there is in fact written to kill non believers. YOU think that is means with kind words or something; But THEY think it's just as it is written there. They are just as muslim as you are. They do what they believe in, and the root is the Koran. You can't just say they are not muslim, because if they believe they are muslim, and act upon what they read in the Koran, they are indeed muslims. And that's why you, as a fellow muslim, HAVE to take responsibilty.
There's no way to missinterpret "Killing innocents is haram" or "God dislikes attackers"
Therefore they're not muslims, you're wrong period.
"Also don't both sides say each other are not really Muslim? just wondering?"
Why would a guy who claims he is muslim (But is really not) that preaches to kill innocents and stuff, claim that a muslim who is following morals AND the Quran, where he has etiquette which is written in the quran, and wouldn't hurt a fly or break a twig because you're hurting life forms, is not a muslim? What retard kuffars (Disbeliever) have you been speaking with? Trying to change the quran and stuff.
I was really just asking. I don't know many Muslims at all, but I know that sects of Jews don't get along very well because they don't think each other are doing it right. Just wondering if it was similar.
On February 05 2012 00:30 Dizmaul wrote: I was really just asking. I don't know many Muslims at all, but I know that sects of Jews don't get along very well because they don't think each other are doing it right. Just wondering if it was similar.
Sorry if it seems like I was insulting or angry in my last post, it's hard to show feelings over the internet.
In islam we don't have sects or different parts of the islam, there's different interpretations, Sunni, Shiite and Wahabbism.
On February 05 2012 00:30 Dizmaul wrote: I was really just asking. I don't know many Muslims at all, but I know that sects of Jews don't get along very well because they don't think each other are doing it right. Just wondering if it was similar.
Sorry if it seems like I was insulting or angry in my last post, it's hard to show feelings over the internet.
In islam we don't have sects or different parts of the islam, there's different interpretations, Sunni, Shiite and Wahabbism.
I'm a sunni muslim, following the prophets sunni.
Ahh ok, is that diffrent from Hasidic, orthadox, and reform jews? Sorry again I was born with no religion so I'm not well informed. Im not hating on Muslims at all.
On February 05 2012 00:30 Dizmaul wrote: I was really just asking. I don't know many Muslims at all, but I know that sects of Jews don't get along very well because they don't think each other are doing it right. Just wondering if it was similar.
Sorry if it seems like I was insulting or angry in my last post, it's hard to show feelings over the internet.
In islam we don't have sects or different parts of the islam, there's different interpretations, Sunni, Shiite and Wahabbism.
I'm a sunni muslim, following the prophets sunni.
Ahh ok, is that diffrent from Hasidic, orthadox, and reform jews? Sorry again I was born with no religion so I'm not well informed. Im not hating on Muslims at all.
I understand you, I can clearly see that you're not hating, I respect you for that. I think it's very different from those because we only have 1 book still, it's only that people read certain things in different manners.
The OP stated Muslims saw Jesus as a prophet. Does this mean you worship him as such??
My Humanities professor as well as my World Religions course were very clear the Muslims recognized Jesus existed but he was not the prophet. I'm pretty sure one of them even quoted out of the Qur'an where it states Mohammed is the one and only prophet. Can the lectures I recieved be that off from what Muslims actually beileve?
On February 05 2012 00:30 Dizmaul wrote: I was really just asking. I don't know many Muslims at all, but I know that sects of Jews don't get along very well because they don't think each other are doing it right. Just wondering if it was similar.
Sorry if it seems like I was insulting or angry in my last post, it's hard to show feelings over the internet.
In islam we don't have sects or different parts of the islam, there's different interpretations, Sunni, Shiite and Wahabbism.
I'm a sunni muslim, following the prophets sunni.
Ahh ok, is that different from Hasidic, orthadox, and reform Jews? Sorry again I was born with no religion so I'm not well informed. I'm not hating on Muslims at all.
I understand you, I can clearly see that you're not hating, I respect you for that. I think it's very different from those because we only have 1 book still, it's only that people read certain things in different manners.
To my knowledge they all use the same book (old testament/torah) also. They just have different interpretations. This leads them not to like each other. I have heard Hasidic Jews say that Reform are not "real Jews" ect.
On February 05 2012 00:42 Ohhsee wrote: The OP stated Muslims saw Jesus as a prophet. Does this mean you worship him as such??
My Humanities professor as well as my World Religions course were very clear the Muslims recognized Jesus existed but he was not the prophet. I'm pretty sure one of them even quoted out of the Qur'an where it states Mohammed is the one and only prophet. Can the lectures I recieved be that off from what Muslims actually beileve?
We don't worship our prophets, but we love Jesus (On him be peace) like we love all our prophets. It's only that Muhammad (SAW) was the last prophet.
i only read abit of this thread but if i read quotes of the Quran ( if theyre true ) that state you cannot friend up with Christs or Jews i just feel im back into stoneage. Religion/Nationalism/Racism and all this shit stops us from evolving and please, because some piece of Paper from 2k years ago says so. So, i know that religious Moslems that take the Quran and praying and stuff serious shall not be nice to Christ / Jews or nonbelievers ( so basicly any non-moslem ) from the inside, just fake it. So if this is true and is stated for everyone to see in one of the most important books what the hell should keep me or others away from just ignoring religious moslemic people or denying help to them, or if anyone even speaks to you with a friendly "hello" , lets say your neighboor, you just answer " Fuck you and save your fake friendly hello "? This is just stoneage simple as that, we are living in one world and if a book says u shall not be friend with any other religion/race which i assume also includes denying help to other religion/races, youll go to hell, then i would call it something... In Germany theyre many turkish ppl living here and i dont wna discuss what i think about their behaviour or stuff like this but as i was younger i had alooot of turkish friends and besides my kinda bestfriend at this time, i wasnt allowed to step a foot into ANY of their flats. Always something that wait here pls my parents blabla. I dont know how many but im pretty sure its still alot of moslem families here dont want their kids to have something to do with german kids. But ye its just an example which i experienced and its not really important but its just a stupid thing and since i read this quotes of the Quran im pretty sure those situation have something to do with it in the long shot. Its not that the mainproblem may be how religious moslem will act to other people because they follow the rules of Quran, the more important thing is how will people who know react to it. Ok imagine this: I run my own Company with lets say 5k employees and i am100% sure that the Quran really says that u shall not be friendly from the inside to any nonbeliever or just Christ and Jews only fake it and some moslem guy applies for a job to me, what in the world would keep me from ignoring/denying him the job/telling him to f*** ***. Fuck off is probably to harsh but this should just indicate how those stuff affect everything and in my oppinion its STUPID to follow such a "rule"... I just strongly believe that Nationalism and beeing superreligious throws us back, doesnt help us evolve and i hope by the time we will become smarter, they were made enough mistakes led from Nationalism or Religious backgrounds in History. I really dont wna see a 2nd Hitler or anyone dying because of a religious background...
On February 05 2012 00:54 Rmdx wrote: i only read abit of this thread but if i read quotes of the Quran ( if theyre true ) that state you cannot friend up with Christs or Jews i just feel im back into stoneage. Religion/Nationalism/Racism and all this shit stops us from evolving and please, because some piece of Paper from 2k years ago says so. So, i know that religious Moslems that take the Quran and praying and stuff serious shall not be nice to Christ / Jews or nonbelievers ( so basicly any non-moslem ) from the inside, just fake it. So if this is true and is stated for everyone to see in one of the most important books what the hell should keep me or others away from just ignoring religious moslemic people or denying help to them, or if anyone even speaks to you with a friendly "hello" , lets say your neighboor, you just answer " Fuck you and save your fake friendly hello "? This is just stoneage simple as that, we are living in one world and if a book says u shall not be friend with any other religion/race which i assume also includes denying help to other religion/races, youll go to hell, then i would call it something... In Germany theyre many turkish ppl living here and i dont wna discuss what i think about their behaviour or stuff like this but as i was younger i had alooot of turkish friends and besides my kinda bestfriend at this time, i wasnt allowed to step a foot into ANY of their flats. Always something that wait here pls my parents blabla. I dont know how many but im pretty sure its still alot of moslem families here dont want their kids to have something to do with german kids. But ye its just an example which i experienced and its not really important but its just a stupid thing and since i read this quotes of the Quran im pretty sure those situation have something to do with it in the long shot. Its not that the mainproblem may be how religious moslem will act to other people because they follow the rules of Quran, the more important thing is how will people who know react to it. Ok imagine this: I run my own Company with lets say 5k employees and i am100% sure that the Quran really says that u shall not be friendly from the inside to any nonbeliever or just Christ and Jews only fake it and some moslem guy applies for a job to me, what in the world would keep me from ignoring/denying him the job/telling him to f*** ***. Fuck off is probably to harsh but this should just indicate how those stuff affect everything and in my oppinion its STUPID to follow such a "rule"... I just strongly believe that Nationalism and beeing superreligious throws us back, doesnt help us evolve and i hope by the time we will become smarter, they were made enough mistakes led from Nationalism or Religious backgrounds in History. I really dont wna see a 2nd Hitler or anyone dying because of a religious background...
Read the posts I did, a guy came in baring the same discussion you're bringing, I refuted his argument, I don't want to say the same thing twice.
What do you think of muslims trying to affect the laws of the non-muslim country they live in? Examples of this would be to limit the free speech to stop people from openly insult Mohammed despite its being accepted to insult deities ? Or removing animal cruelty laws to allow the production of halal meat? Since these movements exists I think its natural for ordinary people to not like muslims.
You were right earlier when you said that it doesnt matter if a person is black, white or what or w/e. It does however matter if hes a muslim or not since its going to impair his ability to think freely to some extent since he can only work within the pre-constructed framework of the koran. Therefore Islam is a threat to an open society. What do you think about this statement ?
On February 05 2012 00:42 Ohhsee wrote: The OP stated Muslims saw Jesus as a prophet. Does this mean you worship him as such??
My Humanities professor as well as my World Religions course were very clear the Muslims recognized Jesus existed but he was not the prophet. I'm pretty sure one of them even quoted out of the Qur'an where it states Mohammed is the one and only prophet. Can the lectures I recieved be that off from what Muslims actually beileve?
We don't worship our prophets, but we love Jesus (On him be peace) like we love all our prophets. It's only that Muhammad (SAW) was the last prophet.
Worship was a bad word choice, should of went with recognize him as such, in religious teachings. Also, as you've stated again Jesus is a prophet, why not recognize him so, as you would with Muhammed. Is it solely because Muhammed is more recent? This is what I can infer from the preceding quote attached.
BTW thank you for the thread and your time in answering our questions.
On February 05 2012 00:57 Robinsa wrote: What do you think of muslims trying to affect the laws of the non-muslim country they live in? Examples of this would be to limit the free speech to stop people from openly insult Mohammed despite its being accepted to insult deities ? Or removing animal cruelty laws to allow the production of halal meat? Since these movements exists I think its natural for ordinary people to not like muslims.
You were right earlier when you said that it doesnt matter if a person is black, white or what or w/e. It does however matter if hes a muslim or not since its going to impair his ability to think freely to some extent since he can only work within the pre-constructed framework of the koran. Therefore Islam is a threat to an open society. What do you think about this statement ?
I think it is wrong, because it's not their original country. Islam condones free speech to a certain extent and so do every country, you're allowed to say what you want as long as it doesn't insult anybody. If you actually read about halal slaughter you'd know that halal slaughtering provides less pain for the animal because you're cutting off the pain receptor to the brain first, it's basic anatomy. I can see things out of other peoples perspectives if that's what you mean, do you think muslims are brainwashed robots who just follow the quran?
On February 04 2012 21:13 nucLeaRTV wrote: EGDeMuslim
DeMuslim isnt a muslim, he just liked Mohammed Ali and Mike Tyson I think.
Anyways, I live in a town in northern England and I go to college in a place that is predominantly muslim. Whilst walking to college every morning I get the feeling that I am not welcome and get looks as if to say "What you doing here white boy?". Not gonna judge you all but where I live, muslims seem to be much more nasty and hateful towards non-muslims than non-muslims are towards them.
On February 05 2012 00:17 GT3 wrote: There's no way to missinterpret "Killing innocents is haram" or "God dislikes attackers"
There might not be a way to misinterpret those statements. However there are many ways to misrepresent innocents as people who are in some way not innocent and are guilty of something and there are many ways to make attackers appear as defenders - thus justifying murder and violence from a religious standpoint.
Words are fickle. People will read them as they choose, one way or the other.
EPT
