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As there is a lot of posts about Stephano's action in forfeiting in ONOG, I can't seem to find (or perhaps the information is spread throughout) anything about what Tyler did?
I think I got that Tyler lost a game to Catz and forfeited in the group stage? Can anyone else elaborate on the reasons/what happened?
Thanks.
Mod edit:
On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
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As far as I can tell, nobody knows why. Maybe you can send him a PM or ask in his fan club?
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Might be covered on SOTG, who knows.
Try asking yeah.
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a kick in the nackers if I ever saw one.
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Tyler's actions haven't really been followed up on because it was group play and it didn't affect anyone's standings in the tourney. It's probably just anger at himself for losing and not wanting to show a 0-4 result in that group (likely). It's a shame...IDK why nony can't shine like he did in BW..big shame.
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I heard he was sick.. can't remember, but I think one of the TL staff posted it on twitter/reddit.
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Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future.
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On January 31 2012 10:46 TylerThaCreator wrote:
Tyler's actions haven't really been followed up on because it was group play and it didn't affect anyone's standings in the tourney. It's probably just anger at himself for losing and not wanting to show a 0-4 result in that group (likely). It's a shame...IDK why nony can't shine like he did in BW..big shame.
It was a bit unfair to Catz who had to risk losing to him whereas Stephano and Rotterdam were given free wins.
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On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future.
Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match.
Community starting unneeded drama as always.
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On January 31 2012 10:42 Eventine wrote:
I think I got that Tyler lost a game to Catz and forfeited in the group stage? Can anyone else elaborate on the reasons/what happened?
Thanks.
That is pretty much the jist of it. This was a non-live streamed, pool play match. Much different situation than the Stephano kerfuffle. He showed up on time, played his match and forfeited the other two games to Catz. Unfortunate but, in my mind, acceptable.
Replay pack is available here
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Tyler does this every now and then, I imagine he might make an excuse on sotg but more like than not it was a rage (depression?) quit.
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On January 31 2012 10:51 moge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:42 Eventine wrote:
I think I got that Tyler lost a game to Catz and forfeited in the group stage? Can anyone else elaborate on the reasons/what happened?
Thanks. That is pretty much the jist of it. This was a non-live streamed, pool play match. Much different situation than the Stephano kerfuffle. He showed up on time, played his match and forfeited the other two games to Catz. Unfortunate but, in my mind, acceptable. Replay pack is available here
Thanks.
I'm sort of curious what everyone else thinks about why TL forums threat this situation different from the only other time I can think about someone [essentially] forfeiting in the group stage, that being Naniwa. I can understand that ONOG is a smaller tournament, but it seems to me that we should hold all professional players in tournaments to the same standard.
(I can understand if they forfeit for good reasons though)
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
I have to agree with you. hmm got nothing to say o_o
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
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I didn't even know that Nony forfeited, and to whoever asked why he isn't as good in SC2 as he was in BW, he will be once the game develops more. He has an amazing ability to learn, which is his best attribute.
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On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
When you don't want to play anymore.
*shrug* I think a player can do whatever he likes. He's just got to be prepared for consequences.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
Pretty much ok until the finals imo
But don't forfeit if you make the tournament change its rules and make everybody wait for you
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
So Tyler's unprofessional behavior is justified because nobody care about his games?
(Hint: the answer is 'yes')
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
Apparently that guy just registered to bitch about the TL writeup. Don't give him attention.
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Why does this thread even exist?
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I dunno... thing is Tyler was invited (which is a privilege) and if you accept the invite it means you are suppose to commit yourself to playing in the tournament. If someone forfeits after just one series the person is not only depriving the tournament and the fans of 2 other series but deprived a pro-gamer who could have been invited in the person's place the opportunity to play good games and maybe break out. It also makes other tournament organisers think twice about giving a tournament invite to the person in the future.
If he pulled out because of unforeseen and unavoidable or health issues then that is a valid reason.
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Its a fair question. Imagine if most players did this after 1 loss.. Tournaments would be in shambles. Its not good practice. A basic explanation at least should be given to why..
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On January 31 2012 11:01 PikaXchU wrote:
Why does this thread even exist?
It has Hot_Bid's explicit approval.
Do you question his judgement?
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I hope he says something because I hate the double standard of people freaking out over naniwa's pointless games but are willing to dismiss this because its tyler.
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I would speculate, that this thread was created as a troll to see if TL will close it or not.
That seems unduly hurtful towards Tyler IMO.
But maybe that's the new editorial direction of TL, if it gets enough posts it proves it's news.
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See the difference is that Tyler has a mental illness, Stephano does not. Tyler wasn't being a jerk, he was occupied with fighting his own black dog, give him a break.
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
I agree with this, people need to cut tyler some slack. We don't know if he was sick or what.
That being said I really hope to see Tyler start doing better, I have always been a big fan of his because of BW.
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Why even create a thread like this. The Stephano and Tyler scenario are so far about, can't even be compared. Stupid thread
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On January 31 2012 11:14 Selendis wrote:
See the difference is that Tyler has a mental illness, Stephano does not. Tyler wasn't being a jerk, he was occupied with fighting his own black dog, give him a break.
No ones making him accept tournament invites.. There are loads of better players out there who would have loved the spot.
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On January 31 2012 11:10 NoCatsCradle wrote:It has Hot_Bid's explicit approval. Do you question his judgement?
Can you cite this "explicit approval"?
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On January 31 2012 11:03 Bart wrote:
I dunno... thing is Tyler was invited (which is a privilege) and if you accept the invite it means you are suppose to commit yourself to playing in the tournament. If someone forfeits after just one series the person is not only depriving the tournament and the fans of 2 other series but deprived a pro-gamer who could have been invited in the person's place the opportunity to play good games and maybe break out. It also makes other tournament organisers think twice about giving a tournament invite to the person in the future.
If he pulled out because of unforeseen and unavoidable or health issues then that is a valid reason.
Yeah, I agree with this. Tyler is really pushing his luck. He hasn't done anything of merit to deserve getting invitations and now he seems to throw away his popularity, the only thing he has going for him.
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On January 31 2012 11:16 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:03 Bart wrote:
I dunno... thing is Tyler was invited (which is a privilege) and if you accept the invite it means you are suppose to commit yourself to playing in the tournament. If someone forfeits after just one series the person is not only depriving the tournament and the fans of 2 other series but deprived a pro-gamer who could have been invited in the person's place the opportunity to play good games and maybe break out. It also makes other tournament organisers think twice about giving a tournament invite to the person in the future.
If he pulled out because of unforeseen and unavoidable or health issues then that is a valid reason. Yeah, I agree with this. Tyler is really pushing his luck. He hasn't done anything of merit to deserve getting invitations and now he seems to throw away his popularity, the only thing he has going for him.
He probably doesn't care about that.
I can imagine him being more frustrated at his play.
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On January 31 2012 11:14 Selendis wrote:
See the difference is that Tyler has a mental illness, Stephano does not. Tyler wasn't being a jerk, he was occupied with fighting his own black dog, give him a break.
We don't know that Stephano isn't depressed, in all fairness to him. For all we know, he struggles with insomnia and needs to maintain a really tight sleep schedule, and HAD to go to bed at that time or he wouldn't have been functional for a long period of time since it's really hard for some people to get their cycle fixed once it's broken. Obviously I have no idea and this is just conjecture, but you can't just go and say "well Stephano has nothing wrong with him so he has no excuse" because we don't know.
To be more on-topic, I would guess that it is depression-related. It's fairly common for people who are depressed to "give up" a lot more easily than "normal people" when they feel like they have no chance of succeeding. It's just part of the condition. Tyler's very critical of his own play, and he was probably too frustrated and disappointed to continue, knowing/thinking he was just going to play "poorly" and lose out whether he played or not.
Yeah, I agree with this. Tyler is really pushing his luck. He hasn't done anything of merit to deserve getting invitations and now he seems to throw away his popularity, the only thing he has going for him.
He was one of if not the best foreigners in BW, and yes, that legacy does mean he deserves respect, whether you personally care or not. He's also one of the most beloved community members, and you have to keep in mind that we're talking about a tournament where QxGFlo, Rotterdam, CatZ, and Destiny were invited... Tyler is hardly the least accomplished of the people who played.
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On January 31 2012 08:45 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:43 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:37 Quakie wrote:
I got ya, Hot_Bid. Doesn't seem like it is bias at place here. Over to the case, Stephano seems to be a very blunt guy, and I think this also got to him here a bit. Its frustrating because even if someone makes a really shitty OP like "Liquid sucks now man" we'd have to consider leaving it open even if we'd instantly close an "EG sucks now man" or "Mouz sucks now man" thread, because people get all wound up about perceived bias. 1. If any other non-Liquid player forfeited first round, we'd not make a thread 2. If Tyler or Ret or Zenio or Hero forfeited in the finals for a similar reason as Stephano did, we'd make a thread You can believe us or not about the truth of these two statements, but that is what we'd do, and if that's the case then there is no hypocrisy here. As for the newsworthiness of this, of course it's news, it's one of the best if not the best non Korean forfeiting in the finals of a semi-major community organized tournament with a 3k prize pool. It's about as concrete news and notable as it gets. Did you make a thread about Polt? We did not make a thread about Polt. Are you saying we should have? Or that us not making a thread about Polt is somehow unfair? Please clarify. Because I am pretty sure we were right not to make a thread about Polt. However, if you feel that there is an epidemic of forfeits and it is discussion worthy, you can make a thread about all of them in SC2 General with a nice OP. Did you make a thread about Polt? You can.
FUCK. Got Tyler and Polt mixed up. Meh.
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On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
I've run tournaments and leagues, but he FFed when he was not gonna make it out of a group, wasn't on stream and it had no change on the tournament. It's not "okay" but its not a big deal like everyone is making it to be. You need to judge these when they happen, Stephano FFed the finals there is a clear difference when your 0-3 or 0-4 ( I don't remember) and your not effecting the tournament at all. Now if Tyler was going to be streamed, then it's iffy because he's messing with the viewers. It's never "right" to FF, but this isn't a big deal at all. I don't get why people are on a witch hunt.
edit: nobody even knows why he dropped out, he could of been sick. He also has his depression stuff, give the guy some slack for christsakes, he's done so much for BW and the SC2 community. It's not like he has a consistent pattern of this, nor is he messing the tournamanent up like stephano.
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hey we are talking about the evil stephano, who was tired and just wanted to sleep -which is really evil.
Tyler doesn't matter!
/irony off
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Braavos36375 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:10 NoCatsCradle wrote:It has Hot_Bid's explicit approval. Do you question his judgement?
Excuse me, what?
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On January 31 2012 11:19 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:16 AndAgain wrote:On January 31 2012 11:03 Bart wrote:
I dunno... thing is Tyler was invited (which is a privilege) and if you accept the invite it means you are suppose to commit yourself to playing in the tournament. If someone forfeits after just one series the person is not only depriving the tournament and the fans of 2 other series but deprived a pro-gamer who could have been invited in the person's place the opportunity to play good games and maybe break out. It also makes other tournament organisers think twice about giving a tournament invite to the person in the future.
If he pulled out because of unforeseen and unavoidable or health issues then that is a valid reason. Yeah, I agree with this. Tyler is really pushing his luck. He hasn't done anything of merit to deserve getting invitations and now he seems to throw away his popularity, the only thing he has going for him. He probably doesn't care about that. I can imagine him being more frustrated at his play.
His popularity is the only think keeping esports as his profession. Maybe in the moment he forfeited he didn't care, but generally speaking I'd say he must.
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On January 31 2012 11:22 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? I've run tournaments and leagues, but he FFed when he was not gonna make it out of a group, wasn't on stream and it had no change on the tournament. It's not "okay" but its not a big deal like everyone is making it to be. You need to judge these when they happen, Stephano FFed the finals there is a clear difference when your 0-3 or 0-4 ( I don't remember) and your not effecting the tournament at all. Now if Tyler was going to be streamed, then it's iffy because he's messing with the viewers. It's never "right" to FF, but this isn't a big deal at all. I don't get why people are on a witch hunt. edit: nobody even knows why he dropped out, he could of been sick. He also has his depression stuff, give the guy some slack for christsakes, he's done so much for BW and the SC2 community. It's not like he has a consistent pattern of this, nor is he messing the tournamanent up like stephano.
how can you say it didnt affect things. for all we know if tyler had played stephano would never of made the finals
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it was only group stages games, Idras done the same before at IPL.. ( i think? )
This doesn't really call for a witch-hunt... but stephanos case on the other hand... a finals match? is a bit absurd
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On January 31 2012 11:26 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:22 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? I've run tournaments and leagues, but he FFed when he was not gonna make it out of a group, wasn't on stream and it had no change on the tournament. It's not "okay" but its not a big deal like everyone is making it to be. You need to judge these when they happen, Stephano FFed the finals there is a clear difference when your 0-3 or 0-4 ( I don't remember) and your not effecting the tournament at all. Now if Tyler was going to be streamed, then it's iffy because he's messing with the viewers. It's never "right" to FF, but this isn't a big deal at all. I don't get why people are on a witch hunt. edit: nobody even knows why he dropped out, he could of been sick. He also has his depression stuff, give the guy some slack for christsakes, he's done so much for BW and the SC2 community. It's not like he has a consistent pattern of this, nor is he messing the tournamanent up like stephano. how can you say it didnt affect things. for all we know if tyler had played stephano would never of made the finals
hmm. I will disagree with your second sentence.
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i for one would like to know why tyler didn't play out his matches
for me personally, it's on the same level of what stephano did
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lol. the retaliation thread by the stephano fan base.
tl.nets want to close it, but they are afraid of bias..... lol... the dilemma...
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On January 31 2012 11:26 turdburgler wrote:
how can you say it didnt affect things. for all we know if tyler had played stephano would never of made the finals
He was already 0-2 against CatZ, who was basically guaranteed to 2-0 Rotterdam (no offense, Rotti!). He would then have to play Rotterdam in PvP, which is Rotterdam's best matchup and coinflippy as hell, and then Stephano, who nobody would be surprised to see 2-0 Tyler.
Losing to CatZ essentially knocked him out of the group (and tournament) barring a miracle.
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On January 31 2012 10:49 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:46 TylerThaCreator wrote:
Tyler's actions haven't really been followed up on because it was group play and it didn't affect anyone's standings in the tourney. It's probably just anger at himself for losing and not wanting to show a 0-4 result in that group (likely). It's a shame...IDK why nony can't shine like he did in BW..big shame. It was a bit unfair to Catz who had to risk losing to him whereas Stephano and Rotterdam were given free wins.
No, even if Catz has lost and Tyler forfeit after that, they will still give him the win (aka walkover for everyone like as if that game was never played)
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On January 31 2012 11:15 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:14 Selendis wrote:
See the difference is that Tyler has a mental illness, Stephano does not. Tyler wasn't being a jerk, he was occupied with fighting his own black dog, give him a break. No ones making him accept tournament invites.. There are loads of better players out there who would have loved the spot.
You can't just pick and choose when a mental illness is going to take hold. Or are you suggesting he shouldn't accept any invites on the basis he might not feel up to it?
This is assuming that he did pull out because he wasn't feeling right. If he just did it because he couldn't be arsed, that's a different matter
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United States5162 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:28 FauvFauv wrote:
i for one would like to know why tyler didn't play out his matches
for me personally, it's on the same level of what stephano did
Really? Forfeiting in the first round is the same level as forfeiting in the finals when you already delayed the tournament by playing in different one?
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On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance.
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For those of you who feel the urge to insult Tyler in anyway based on his current game play or discredit him.
Remember, he deserves respect from what he did in BW he was a great foreigner. Right now he may be having troubles in Starcraft 2 and what not but before you write something, remember to be respectful he deserves it.
+ Show Spoiler +To Mods: Perhaps this post isn't needed on my part since I am not contributing to the conversation but I wanted to say it because it extremely frustrates me when I see people just go "Oh tyler is bad" or say things that are disrespectful.
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On January 31 2012 11:30 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 10:46 TylerThaCreator wrote:
Tyler's actions haven't really been followed up on because it was group play and it didn't affect anyone's standings in the tourney. It's probably just anger at himself for losing and not wanting to show a 0-4 result in that group (likely). It's a shame...IDK why nony can't shine like he did in BW..big shame. It was a bit unfair to Catz who had to risk losing to him whereas Stephano and Rotterdam were given free wins. No, even if Catz has lost and Tyler forfeit after that, they will still give him the win (aka walkover for everyone like as if that game was never played)
How are we to speculate about the whims of the tournament organizers given their cavalier attitude toward applying arbitrary standards in the first place?
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every fucking player should be able to forfeit his games if he doesn't want to play (any time)!!!!!
facing the set reguralities, though, made by the organizers!!! lol ^^
IT IS JUST A MATTER OF HOW TO ORGANIZE and MAKE RULES! just as shitty as gsl/gom......
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On January 31 2012 11:23 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:10 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:01 PikaXchU wrote:
Why does this thread even exist? It has Hot_Bid's explicit approval. Do you question his judgement? Excuse me, what?
LOL!!!
Called the fuck out.
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On January 31 2012 11:28 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. the retaliation thread by the stephano fan base.
tl.nets want to close it, but they are afraid of bias..... lol... the dilemma...
Nail on head my friend..... its so ugly.... i can't stop laughing....going straight to hell.
I won't bump again... they should close both. Players mess up, they don't owe use more than they give.
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Ask him on his twitter, he knows more than anyone else...
Welcome to Team Liquid.
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Why speculate when you do not know? So pointless. Group stages and finals are different.
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I don't care about forfeiting the first round, I do care about forfeiting the finals though.
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On January 31 2012 11:31 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:30 brachester wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 10:46 TylerThaCreator wrote:
Tyler's actions haven't really been followed up on because it was group play and it didn't affect anyone's standings in the tourney. It's probably just anger at himself for losing and not wanting to show a 0-4 result in that group (likely). It's a shame...IDK why nony can't shine like he did in BW..big shame. It was a bit unfair to Catz who had to risk losing to him whereas Stephano and Rotterdam were given free wins. No, even if Catz has lost and Tyler forfeit after that, they will still give him the win (aka walkover for everyone like as if that game was never played) How are we to speculate about the whims of the tournament organizers given their cavalier attitude toward applying arbitrary standards in the first place?
That's pretty much how all group play tournaments in all sports and sc2 works, so i assume they would do the same thing
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Do you hold every player to the same standard no matter what the game/tournament or do you only point out single instances that are "bigger" (tournament finals). I do not know the answer but I think that is the right question to be asking.
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On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance.
Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short.
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On January 31 2012 11:29 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:26 turdburgler wrote:
how can you say it didnt affect things. for all we know if tyler had played stephano would never of made the finals He was already 0-2 against CatZ, who was basically guaranteed to 2-0 Rotterdam (no offense, Rotti!). He would then have to play Rotterdam in PvP, which is Rotterdam's best matchup and coinflippy as hell, and then Stephano, who nobody would be surprised to see 2-0 Tyler. Losing to CatZ essentially knocked him out of the group (and tournament) barring a miracle.
well then why bother playing the tourney at all, why dont we just write cheques to stephano every time he plays in a league!
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On January 31 2012 11:01 PikaXchU wrote:
Why does this thread even exist?
It shouldn't.
This isn't a topic that has a discussion to go along with it
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On January 31 2012 11:35 Mr Showtime wrote:It shouldn't. This isn't a topic that has a discussion to go along with it
well, we can all speculate about what tyler's reasonings were since none of us know anything. how can that not foster a decent discussion? /sarcasm
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What the fuck is wrong with you people.
Stephano got punished, he's okay with it, we should be done with this shit. Why do we need to bring up Tyler now?
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WO's are fairly common in early rounds of tournaments. White-Ra and other members of the community have had them; the real question is how inconvenient they were to the tournament. Few people called White-Ra out because it hardly impacted the tournaments. The same is true of the Tyler incident. The problem is the finals are, and should be, the culmination of hype and drama in a tourney. When you quit, you take something away from the tournament that you don't when you leave in the early stages.
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8748 Posts
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
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if stephano's FF is worth a thread ?
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On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short.
But what about all the TAs who were eagerly anticipating grading your exam? Who are you to deprive them of that privilege?
Their self-righteous indignation is enough justification for the deduction of points and your banishment from all future exams.
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Liquid tyler has spoken, can this be closed? He doesn't deserve any of this bullshit.
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I think its only fair that Stephano and Liquid`Tyler share 4th place.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 DamageControL wrote:
WO's are fairly common in early rounds of tournaments. White-Ra and other members of the community have had them; the real question is how inconvenient they were to the tournament. Few people called White-Ra out because it hardly impacted the tournaments. The same is true of the Tyler incident. The problem is the finals are, and should be, the culmination of hype and drama in a tourney. When you quit, you take something away from the tournament that you don't when you leave in the early stages.
How do you not. Accepting an invitation to a tournament means that it is likely someone else did not receive an invite. While clearly FFing in the finals has more impact on the tournament, I don't think any pro-gamer should forfeit in any position. It is an honor to be invited to these tournaments and players should treat it as such (barring any emergency situations)
Edit:
Thanks Tyler for clarifying. Can we close the thread? It's gotten completely off topic...
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
well there it is
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On January 31 2012 11:36 1Eris1 wrote:
What the fuck is wrong with you people.
Stephano got punished, he's okay with it, we should be done with this shit. Why do we need to bring up Tyler now?
guy asks a simple question, its the replies that are being dickish and bitchy over the fact that anyone dares question tyler. tyler has explained himself, threads over, but theres no reason to be hostile to a guy who asked.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Boom, can this thread be closed now?
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On January 31 2012 11:31 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:28 FauvFauv wrote:
i for one would like to know why tyler didn't play out his matches
for me personally, it's on the same level of what stephano did Really? Forfeiting in the first round is the same level as forfeiting in the finals when you already delayed the tournament by playing in different one?
forfeit = forfeit
the level of forfeiture makes no difference to me, particularly because we're talking about it with regard to professionalism
to me, 100% professionalism = professionalism, whereas 5%, 50%, even 95% professionalism = non-professionalism
edit: tyler's explanation makes this invalid, didnt see his post when i made this one
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On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short.
Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one.
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On January 31 2012 11:41 FauvFauv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:31 Myles wrote:On January 31 2012 11:28 FauvFauv wrote:
i for one would like to know why tyler didn't play out his matches
for me personally, it's on the same level of what stephano did Really? Forfeiting in the first round is the same level as forfeiting in the finals when you already delayed the tournament by playing in different one? forfeit = forfeit the level of forfeiture makes no difference to me, particularly because we're talking about it with regard to professionalism to me, 100% professionalism = professionalism, whereas 5%, 50%, even 95% professionalism = non-professionalism
We have had a lot of forfeits in KOTH tournaments. Want to call them out on it?
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On January 31 2012 11:39 Eventine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 DamageControL wrote:
WO's are fairly common in early rounds of tournaments. White-Ra and other members of the community have had them; the real question is how inconvenient they were to the tournament. Few people called White-Ra out because it hardly impacted the tournaments. The same is true of the Tyler incident. The problem is the finals are, and should be, the culmination of hype and drama in a tourney. When you quit, you take something away from the tournament that you don't when you leave in the early stages.
How do you not. Accepting an invitation to a tournament means that it is likely someone else did not receive an invite. While clearly FFing in the finals has more impact on the tournament, I don't think any pro-gamer should forfeit in any position. It is an honor to be invited to these tournaments and players should treat it as such.
You take something away, I agree. My point was that you don't take away as much.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Thanks for letting us know Tyler. That's pretty great that you posted to answer that question.
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Thx Tyler for letting us know brotoss
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On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one.
Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Tyler - legitimate reason.
Stephano - non-legitimate reason.
end of thread. lol
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On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early.
leaving the exam early is the same as 2-0ing the whole thing, in and out in a few hours. leaving before the finals is like going, ive got enough points for a B+, might aswell just leave the last 3 questions blank
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On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early.
Lol, I give up.
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i don't like it when people raising pitchfolks against tyler... BUT
this thread has the same viability as the Stephano FF thread...
the funny thing is the drama around both....... Just another tournament that changed their rules - that's a topic.
THEY FUCKING NEED RULES
and anybody is free to forfeit whatever he wants - this is SPORTS not your kindergarden.
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On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol
Illegitimate. Sorry.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
I love Tyler, for exactly this reason. The man owns up to what he did, and even though it's a perfectly legitimate excuse, he apologizes to all those people who would have loved to see his games!
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Hope you are OK Tyler, you can win the next one instead.
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On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up.
You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up".
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Is this thread really necessary?
I think it was pretty clearly defined in the other thread the two forfeits are completely unrelated, also Tylers withdraw had an immensely less impact on the event than Stephanos. What is there even to talk about here?
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This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is)
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When someone forfeits in a tournament, they should be disqualified. It's like leaving a game early, it doesn't matter if you are 5 bases up with the opponent mining from 1 base, if you leave the game early you lose. If you decide you can't finish the tournament, you are removed from the tournament, no matter your standing. Stephano should be happy to receive any prize money at all.
People should be able to quit tournaments at their leisure, as long as they are satisfied with the consequences. There should be nothing personal involved, simply removal from the tournament.
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On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry.
you sure?
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I'm sure he has a legitimate reason, so there is no reason to pry.
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On January 31 2012 11:50 zefreak wrote:
When someone forfeits in a tournament, they should be disqualified. It's like leaving a game early, it doesn't matter if you are 5 bases up with the opponent mining from 1 base, if you leave the game early you lose. If you decide you can't finish the tournament, you are removed from the tournament, no matter your standing. Stephano should be happy to receive any prize money at all.
People should be able to quit tournaments at their leisure, as long as they are satisfied with the consequences. There should be nothing personal involved, simply removal from the tournament.
yup that would be a good way to handle those situations.
you forteit? your out! end of story. + organizers DON'T let meaningless matches happen!
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Excellent, thanks Tyler. Can we please close this thread now?
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This thread should be closed. The only people that see an equivalency between the two situations are absolutists who don't understand that context and extenuating factors actually play a role. Sorry guys but the world is not so black and white, Tyler's forfeit in group stages due to legitimate health problems and Stephano's forfeit in the finals due to poor planning are not equivalent in any reasonable analysis.
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Thanks for giving an explanation so readily, Tyler. You've confirmed my faith in you. 
I hope your medical issue gets resolved. Godspeed!
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
Why isn't it the same? Cause there was no money involved? People tuned in to see tyler play just as much as they did for Stephano. Regardless of the circumstances fans were robbed from seeing two popular foreign players compete regardless of tournament position.
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On January 31 2012 11:50 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry. you sure?
Yes?
I suspect you're misunderstanding the point of my post.
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On January 31 2012 11:47 LuckyFool wrote:
Is this thread really necessary?
I think it was pretty clearly defined in the other thread the two forfeits are completely unrelated, also Tylers withdraw had an immensely less impact on the event than Stephanos. What is there even to talk about here?
PROFESSIONALISM. LEGITIMACY. STANDARDS. ESPORTS.
Very "important" things to talk about.
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This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense.
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On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up".
I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers?
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On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is)
Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them.
Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled.
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On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short.
Your example is irrelevant and totally out of context. Letting yourself down is totally different to letting others down (tournament organisers who invited you, your team, teammates, sponsors, fans).
Here's my stupid irrelevant out-of-context example. In the middle of the day do I just get up and say "kk, I'm done with work now, going home 6 hours early, lol"? I could do that, but I'd probably be fired, ergo there'll be consequences
As for the actual subject matter (Tyler and Stephano FF'ing) I have no opinion.
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On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense.
the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this.
On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled.
minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all
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On January 31 2012 11:54 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:50 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry. you sure? Yes? I suspect you're misunderstanding the point of my post.
i suspect you are a grammar nazi who is mistaken. please feel free to pm as to why non-legitimate is improper. thanks and have a great day.
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On January 31 2012 10:58 GreEny K wrote:
I didn't even know that Nony forfeited, and to whoever asked why he isn't as good in SC2 as he was in BW, he will be once the game develops more. He has an amazing ability to learn, which is his best attribute.
He says himself that he doesn't play the game anywhere near as much as he needs to to compete at the highest level. It's nothing to do with how developed the game is, it's to do with how much work he puts into playing
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On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol
You understand how completely irrelevant it is at the end of the day?
He may as well be lying,which I'm not saying he is,but there is no way to prove that he is or isn't.
There is no governing body that checks up players on the reasons why they decided to act the way they did.
For now,you have people that are brutally honest about the reason they did something.
Do you honestly expect this honesty to be preserved in a community where a witch hunt ensues every time something like this happens?
People are going to stop being honest and start being smart and lie.Straight up.And there will be no way for you to find out if they forfeited because they were feeling like it,if they were sick,or if they were match fixing so they threw the game.
There is no way to know these things in esports today as it is.
So these threads serve no purpose what so ever apart from crucifying players for honesty.
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Stephano should have just said he was sick. That seems to be the popular excuse among starcraft pro's. Everyone is always sick, must be some kind of uncurable disease these people keep passing to eachother
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On January 31 2012 11:56 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:50 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry. you sure? Yes? I suspect you're misunderstanding the point of my post. i suspect you are a grammar nazi who is mistaken. please feel free to pm as to why non-legitimate is improper. thanks and have a great day.
" thanks and have a great day"
That's too kind of you. It's almost as if you don't mean it at all.
But I'll PM you nonetheless.
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On January 31 2012 11:58 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol You understand how completely irrelevant it is at the end of the day. He may as well be lying,which I'm not saying he is,but there is no way to prove that he is or isn't. There is no governing body that checks up players on the reasons why they decided to act the way they did. For now,you have people that are brutally honest about the reason they did something. Do you honestly expect this honesty to be preserved in a community where a witch hunt ensues every time something like this happens? People are going to stop being honest and start being smart and lie.Straight up.And there will be no way for you to find out if they forfeited because they were feeling like it,if they were sick,or if they were match fixing so they threw the game. There is no way to know these things in esports today as it is. So these threads serve no purpose what so ever apart from crucifying players for honesty.
tyler is awesome and when he was questioned, he stepped up and explained it (and apologized).
stephano's twitter post and actions are dickish.
yes, it does matter. i respect tyler more and more, dislike stephano more and more.
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I think forfeiting during a group stage is chump change compared to forfeiting a FINALS. Am I the only one that see's that? Seriously? Group stage v. finals?
Oh and, medical complication v. too tired because I played in two tournaments in a single day?
Are people forgetting that there's always context to issues and that it's never black and white?
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On January 31 2012 11:58 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano should have just said he was sick. That seems to be the popular excuse among starcraft pro's. Everyone is always sick, must be some kind of uncurable disease these people keep passing to eachother
Have you ever tried traveling frequently to events where you physically interact (handshakes hugs etc.) with a lot of people?
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Let's put it simply down on the line, in laymen terms.
Do these kinds of threads pop up every time ANY player forfeits a tournament? Answer: NO
Remember when IdrA forfeited vs Nerchio. Was there a thread about it? NO
Remember when X player quit, where is the thread on it? NON EXISTENT
Therefore, attacking another player in defense of another player is incorrect, and known as "chainsaw defense". If people cannot see the difference between forfeiting in the finals and first round, in no right persons' mind can we have a legitimate discussion here. People are "white knighting" Stephano, not Tyler. Case Closed.
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On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all
lol?
I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise?
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On January 31 2012 11:54 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up". I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers?
Now we're getting there. I for one don't hold any qualms with Idra, Naniwa, Stephano, White-Ra or Tyler for forfeiting at various stages. I am also not bothered with events worrying about their own profit and publicity.
No show --> no event --> no money --> no players --> no show. It's a circle.
The problem is exactly what you have asked in bold. Virtually any written rule about forfeiting no matter how it is formulated will be more beneficial for all parties involved than it is right now with every tournament either not bothering at all or inventing rules on the fly (and maybe deciding entirely different the next time). This situation encourages players to be simply lying. Stephano could have chosen one of a myriad of "legitimate" excuses like "Oh my internet died". He simply chose the wrong one.
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♥ tyler, hopefully we can now move on from this...
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On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise?
dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then.
secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask.
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Seriously? You want to create a thread for something that's unimportant? You're just trolling TL right now..
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Good-Guy Tyler, explains situation and publicly apologizes. ^_^
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On January 31 2012 11:01 GrungyMunchy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. Apparently that guy just registered to bitch about the TL writeup. Don't give him attention.
And after fulfilling that specific purpose, he developed interests in other areas of discussion.
Can you really blame him? He only wants to be a well-rounded human being.
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On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask.
His metaphor was apt, you just overextended it. There will never be a 1:1 relationship between a metaphor and its referent. A metaphor is only as useful as its ability to communicate one or two similar properties, it is not expected to be similar in every way.
I honestly can't believe how quickly people will latch onto any perceived weakness in an 'opponents' message in order to 'win'. Any reasonable person can see how you are intentionally missing the point.
How are the situations different? The main difference is scale: one is a group match that few people care about, one is a finals that around 20k people were waiting for. Does this violate your naive absolutist principles? Good luck surviving in a complex world.
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Well he could be lying obviously.Doesnt matter.So ff is ok if its no further then semis.Right, no similarities at all.
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This is getting out of hand.
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Stuff comes up. It happens in sports all the time. People can get sick.
This will happen again. Probably not from Tyler, but it will happen again.
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On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask.
Arguing semantics is useless. First round, group stage, all the same thing.
Stephano is getting shit on because he made it to the finals and gave ONOG essentially an ultimatum (which IMO is bullshit and downright disrespectful) that was unreasonable. What makes it even worse is that Kas stayed up just as late to play his matches and made no similar ultimatums and essentially was praised (there's a blog written by one of the observers speaking about Kas) for his easy to work with attitude. Stephano comes out of this looking like a diva.
And the creation of this thread is more likely than not to spur resentment at the Stephano criticism over in the other thread. It is a poor attempt at making an argument supporting Stephano by stating, "well...you know... someone else technically forfeited too!!" The whole point hotbid was trying to make regarding TL's not making a thread about Tyler's forfeit is what was said earlier in this thread: Forfeiting a finals is a big fucking deal; forfeiting group stages is not.
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On January 31 2012 12:01 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:
[quote]
Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match.
Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up". I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers? Now we're getting there. I for one don't hold any qualms with Idra, Naniwa, Stephano, White-Ra or Tyler for forfeiting at various stages. I am also not bothered with events worrying about their own profit and publicity. No show --> no event --> no money --> no players --> no show. It's a circle. The problem is exactly what you have asked in bold. Virtually any written rule about forfeiting no matter how it is formulated will be more beneficial for all parties involved than it is right now with every tournament either not bothering at all or inventing rules on the fly (and maybe deciding entirely different the next time)
Rules are definitely needed, I think everybody can agree on this. The rules must be defined though, and penalties for not adhering to the rules must be defined. Should a forfeit be punished equally, regardless of what stage of the tournament it happens? Should the impact a forfeit has on the tournament have any effect on the size of the punishment? Can there be exceptions? If the match is not streamed, will this lessen the punishment of forfeiting?
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On January 31 2012 12:11 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask. His metaphor was apt, you just overextended it. There will never be a 1:1 relationship between a metaphor and its referent. A metaphor is only as useful as its ability to communicate one or two similar properties, it is not expected to be similar in every way. I honestly can't believe how quickly people will latch onto any perceived weakness in an 'opponents' message in order to 'win'. Any reasonable person can see how you are intentionally missing the point. How are the situations different? The main difference is scale: one is a group match that few people care about, one is a finals that around 20k people were waiting for. Does this violate your naive absolutist principles? Good luck surviving in a complex world.
not playing your groups out has a major impact on the rest of the tourney especially when your in the same groups, like i already said. for all we know, if tyler played his games stephano would never of made it out of the group. buutt nevermind
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The difference between Tyler's situation and Stephano's situation is: Tyler did not purposefully screw over ONOG. Obviously, as Tyler stated himself, his actions were unjust. However, Stephano (from the information we have), feels little remorse and cost ONOG several viewers when leaving.
In all seriousness, ONOG could win a law suit against Stephano. The problem being, each side would waste more money in the courts... (and the whole foreign countries thing...)
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On January 31 2012 12:16 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask. Arguing semantics is useless. First round, group stage, all the same thing. Stephano is getting shit on because he made it to the finals and gave ONOG essentially an ultimatum (which IMO is bullshit and downright disrespectful) that was unreasonable. What makes it even worse is that Kas stayed up just as late to play his matches and made no similar ultimatums and essentially was praised (there's a blog written by one of the observers speaking about Kas) for his easy to work with attitude. Stephano comes out of this looking like a diva. And the creation of this thread is more likely than not to spur resentment at the Stephano criticism over in the other thread. It is a poor attempt at making an argument supporting Stephano by stating, "we'll someone else technically forfeited too!!" The whole point hotbid was trying to make regarding TL's not making a thread about Tyler's forfeit is what was said earlier in this thread: Forfeiting a finals is a big fucking deal; forfeiting group stages is not.
And still there is no answer on how to handle it principally. The only responses to such a concern is "well, we'll see when it happens!" And wing a decision again. And another time one player gets stripped of 200$ for pulling out of the round of 8. And another time nothing happens. And it is perfectly fine to leave it at that?
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On January 31 2012 12:17 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:01 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:
[quote]
At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up". I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers? Now we're getting there. I for one don't hold any qualms with Idra, Naniwa, Stephano, White-Ra or Tyler for forfeiting at various stages. I am also not bothered with events worrying about their own profit and publicity. No show --> no event --> no money --> no players --> no show. It's a circle. The problem is exactly what you have asked in bold. Virtually any written rule about forfeiting no matter how it is formulated will be more beneficial for all parties involved than it is right now with every tournament either not bothering at all or inventing rules on the fly (and maybe deciding entirely different the next time) Rules are definitely needed, I think everybody can agree on this. The rules must be defined though, and penalties for not adhering to the rules must be defined. Should a forfeit be punished equally, regardless of what stage of the tournament it happens? Should the impact a forfeit has on the tournament have any effect on the size of the punishment? Can there be exceptions? If the match is not streamed, will this lessen the punishment of forfeiting?
It doesn't have to be that complicated. Forfeiture = removal from tournament = no placement and no prize and no other punishment necessary. Forfeiting in early stages would then have a relatively soft punishment (only punishment is forgoing the expected value of playing) while forfeiting deep will have a correspondingly harsher punishment. There should be exceptions when possible for emergencies but there will always have to be a judgement call and its best when contained to a small, well defined area.
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On January 31 2012 12:20 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:16 Bayyne wrote:On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask. Arguing semantics is useless. First round, group stage, all the same thing. Stephano is getting shit on because he made it to the finals and gave ONOG essentially an ultimatum (which IMO is bullshit and downright disrespectful) that was unreasonable. What makes it even worse is that Kas stayed up just as late to play his matches and made no similar ultimatums and essentially was praised (there's a blog written by one of the observers speaking about Kas) for his easy to work with attitude. Stephano comes out of this looking like a diva. And the creation of this thread is more likely than not to spur resentment at the Stephano criticism over in the other thread. It is a poor attempt at making an argument supporting Stephano by stating, "we'll someone else technically forfeited too!!" The whole point hotbid was trying to make regarding TL's not making a thread about Tyler's forfeit is what was said earlier in this thread: Forfeiting a finals is a big fucking deal; forfeiting group stages is not. And still there is no answer on how to handle it principally. The only responses to such a concern is "well, we'll see when it happens!" And wing a decision again. And another time one player gets stripped of 200$ for pulling out of the round of 8. And another time nothing happens. And it is perfectly fine to leave it at that?
When there is no central governing body that has authority to levy penalties on players/tournaments, or to establish uniform rules across ALL tournaments, then yes we will see decisions made on the spot. And to be honest, ONOG's spur of the moment decision was a good one.
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lol difference between tyler and stephano (other then not being in finals).
Tyler even with whatever medical thing that affected him (I don't think he would lie) admits it was unprofessional and what not while stephano is like "I don't understand why people are mad at me" lol...
I still don't think tyler forfeiting was a big deal anyway if he was in the finals it would be but yeah...
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On January 31 2012 12:19 quaffle wrote:
The difference between Tyler's situation and Stephano's situation is: Tyler did not purposefully screw over ONOG. Obviously, as Tyler stated himself, his actions were unjust. However, Stephano (from the information we have), feels little remorse and cost ONOG several viewers when leaving.
In all seriousness, ONOG could win a law suit against Stephano. The problem being, each side would waste more money in the courts... (and the whole foreign countries thing...)
ONOG could win a lawsuit against Stephano for sure. Stephano broke the terms of their contract.
Oh wait? There was no contract? Hm.
And what about that whole foreign countries thing? You know... the thing with the foreign countries and jurisdictions? I'm pretty sure that would be super important if there were a contract to begin with.
Maybe we can fine stephano in e-sports dollars.
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On January 31 2012 12:06 TheTurk wrote:
Good-Guy Tyler, explains situation and publicly apologizes. ^_^
After people start questioning the reason why. If the Stephano post never came up I bet we still wouldn't have heard from Tyler. But whatevs it was just the generic excuse I figured it would be "I was sick, cough cough"
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On January 31 2012 12:17 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:11 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask. His metaphor was apt, you just overextended it. There will never be a 1:1 relationship between a metaphor and its referent. A metaphor is only as useful as its ability to communicate one or two similar properties, it is not expected to be similar in every way. I honestly can't believe how quickly people will latch onto any perceived weakness in an 'opponents' message in order to 'win'. Any reasonable person can see how you are intentionally missing the point. How are the situations different? The main difference is scale: one is a group match that few people care about, one is a finals that around 20k people were waiting for. Does this violate your naive absolutist principles? Good luck surviving in a complex world. not playing your groups out has a major impact on the rest of the tourney especially when your in the same groups, like i already said. for all we know, if tyler played his games stephano would never of made it out of the group. buutt nevermind
You're right that as a hypothetical the outcome of the tournament as a whole can change, but at the same time, the group stages generally don't draw that much of a crowd to start with (just look at the MLG numbers). How many times has it been said that the finals of a tournament are what make or break the overall feel? NASL Season 1 could have been considered a disaster had MC and Puma not put on one of the best series ever. Look at what ONoG had lined up, an epic potential fight between Kas and Stephano, but instead they had to change it due to one player's choice.
And on another note, Stephano knew this was a potential problem when signing up for two tournaments. Tyler on the other hand probably was not planning to get a medical problem all of a sudden during the tournament. And yet here is Tyler still apologizing for his lack of professionalism while Stephano just looks the other way.
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lol there's a difference between Tyler and Stephano right now -.- Tyler = immediately apologetic, Stephano = whats the big deal... even if their offenses the same, the responses tell stories
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On January 31 2012 12:26 CeriseCherries wrote:
lol there's a difference between Tyler and Stephano right now -.- Tyler = immediately apologetic, Stephano = whats the big deal... even if their offenses the same, the responses tell stories
What? Immediately? C'mon man, his apology was not immediate, far from it. He apologized after people started asking questions.
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On January 31 2012 12:25 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:06 TheTurk wrote:
Good-Guy Tyler, explains situation and publicly apologizes. ^_^ After people start questioning the reason why. If the Stephano post never came up I bet we still wouldn't have heard from Tyler. But whatevs it was just the generic excuse I figured it would be "I was sick, cough cough"
I doubt that, he would have for sure been asked about it during State of the Game. At the same time, is it really our business to know that he had a medical problem during the tournament? At the same time, don't call out the people who have had solid reputations for the longest time. I don't mean this as Tyler fanboyism, but in the TeamLiquid community, after you have contributed as much as Tyler has, I highly doubt that this is just "some excuse".
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I love how the OP tried to make himself seem innocent in creating this thread by acting like he was just curious about learning some facts. "Hey guys I just made a thread to ask about why Tyler forfeit even though it's been asked a million times in the other thread." Anyone with a brain would know that creating this thread would just be throwing fuel on the fire. The OP clearly wanted there to be arguments against Tyler and TL.
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On January 31 2012 12:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise? dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then. secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask.
So your going to twist my metaphor then claim I don't know what I'm talking about? What is your problem.
If you'd like we can change the windshield to a dent in the bumper.
Is a dent in my bumper the same as my car getting totaled?
Tyler = Dent
Stepanho = Totaled
I hope I don't have to explain why. Does every dent require a thread on TL and a call to the insurance agency?
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On January 31 2012 12:19 quaffle wrote:
The difference between Tyler's situation and Stephano's situation is: Tyler did not purposefully screw over ONOG. Obviously, as Tyler stated himself, his actions were unjust. However, Stephano (from the information we have), feels little remorse and cost ONOG several viewers when leaving.
In all seriousness, ONOG could win a law suit against Stephano. The problem being, each side would waste more money in the courts... (and the whole foreign countries thing...)
Players have a right to forfeit in almost all sport situations......... unless its stated within the tournaments law books. A lot (not all but a lot) of e-sports fans think they are some princess in need of care or something. Its up to the tournament organizers to make the tournament enticing enough for players not to forfeit in them. Again, it is unprofessional from Stephano to forfeit like that but its within his right. I'm not faulting ONOG, but I hope ONOG learns the lesson not to invite people who are already registered in another tournament bigger than them on the same day. The players will always give more importance to the bigger tournament.
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On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always.
well he has a point, you can't treat one person one way and another a completely different way. I think this thread is also pretty unnecessary, if people want to know small and rather pointless details about a player you go to their twitter and find out.
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I certainly don't see the big deal with tyler forfeiting a match due to medical issues. Its not like he didn't want to play after he agreed to it.
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Thank you.
Now can everyone put down the pitchforks against Tyler, Stephano and ONOG?
So much crazyiness.
I think this should be our new logo: http://i.imgur.com/xE9g5.jpg
Thoughts?
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ok so now that things are settled here
- let's close this thread
- than go to the other one
- and proceed to do some more exquisite french-bashing, shall we?
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Sounds good. Let's move on now.
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Why are people even trying to have discussion on Tyler's professionalism? We don't have enough information to really justify whether or not Tyler did something unreasonable. For all we know he could have had a discussion with a ref and forfeited based on a very legitimate medical concern. If people want to discuss forfeits and professionalism in general then why isn't the discussion continued in the original thread?
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On January 31 2012 11:53 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. Why isn't it the same? Cause there was no money involved? People tuned in to see tyler play just as much as they did for Stephano. Regardless of the circumstances fans were robbed from seeing two popular foreign players compete regardless of tournament position.
Fans aren't entitled to jack. And the exaggeration of robbed as if it was Tyler robbing both his and catz fans of the match, which is almost suggesting Tyler doesn't care for the fans. Get over it.
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On January 31 2012 13:05 holydevil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Thank you. Now can everyone put down the pitchforks against Tyler, Stephano and ONOG? So much crazyiness. I think this should be our new logo: http://i.imgur.com/xE9g5.jpgThoughts?
that's a good logo, but this is better
http://i.imgur.com/pEXzV.jpg
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On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time.
Sorry to hear 
Sounds quite different from the Stephano situation regarding the semantics of the situation. For those complaining, when has any professional athlete (football, basketball, etc..) ever gotten legitimate flak for skipping a game for medical reasons?
Tyler I doubt you'll read this or take notice, but for the heck of it if there's anything a netizen can do, let me know.
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On January 31 2012 16:04 jliu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Sorry to hear Sounds quite different from the Stephano situation regarding the semantics of the situation. For those complaining, when has any professional athlete (football, basketball, etc..) ever gotten legitimate flak for skipping a game for medical reasons?Tyler I doubt you'll read this or take notice, but for the heck of it if there's anything a netizen can do, let me know.
quite often.
Depends on the injury of course.
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tyler already cleared all this up why is this thread still open?
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On January 31 2012 16:11 Detwiler wrote:
tyler already cleared all this up why is this thread still open?
Because people think Tyler should be exiled like Stephano is.
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On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals?
When it matter the least in the tournament. Now do your maths!
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Austin10831 Posts
Wow, sorry this took so long Tyler.
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EPT
