newsflash for everyone wondering why idra complains, its a combination of a psychological shield and to draw views to the eg site. Pretty fucking obvious at this point.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
So you're saying foreigners are completely irrelevant? Strange of you to be posting here on a foreigner website then.
I dont completely agree with him, but he definitely has a point. For example, stephano never has beaten MC, even though he has played him several times now. MC has really strong PvZ.
On January 30 2012 08:38 Oreo7 wrote: newsflash for everyone wondering why idra complains, its a combination of a psychological shield and to draw views to the eg site. Pretty fucking obvious at this point.
I think it's consistent with how he acts in games though.. leaving games where he either has it won or has a very good chance(vs MMA for example) fits right in with a statement like that. That is the important part to me. The actual balance means little when you go in with a bad attitude.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
MVP said that terran was the worst race for a good while remember that?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Fact of the matter is that EVERYONE experiences bias. Even random players report being biased in certain matchups (they have the ability to more easily recognize their bias). If you watch TOP TIER PvZ during the next month you will see that it isn't nearly as bad as idra claims that it is.
On January 30 2012 08:37 LeFroMaGe wrote: Normally I would be rooting for Huk, but you know recently, with the hard work Idra has been putting in I just can't help but root for him! I hope Huk and Idra meet, would be a great match.
I think that would be unfortunate because that would mean one of them gets knocked into code B.
What? You don't get knocked out of code A for losing in the second round. If they met, they're both at least still on code A, and could both get into code S also.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Sure, but how are you going to disagree with NesTea? He sees you when you're sleeping and he knows when you're awake. I would sleep with my eyes open if I were you. You might find a spinecrawler and an overlord next your bed. And guess what. He has lair.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered? .
That is completely unrelated to the fact that whenever idra says something, people jump on the "idra never stops whining" bandwagon. The part where i bring up DRG, Nestea and leenock was solely for the purpose of telling people that he isnt the only one, and if they want to jump on a bandwagon, it should be labeled "wow another zerg is complaining".
MC was saying PvZ is ezpz for a long time, and recently he is crushing again in PvZ, get your facts straight.
Can someone tell me who has the best ZvP at the moment and explain why? What I see out of Leenock, DRG, Nestea atm is 'go muta or die trying'. There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack. Watching Nestea stream and literally rage quit due to not winning a game vs Protoss was a bit mind numbing as he taught everyone the power of the gas less 3 base. What does Zerg do when he has held off Protoss early pressure (zealots, blink, DT, warp prism etc.), sees Protoss take a third, tries to bust it but fails. What does Zerg do?
Oh, and for the record, Stephano has a worse record vs MC than Idra. In fact, the state of PvZ usually coincides with MC's dominance in the matchup. Remember the times when MC went early stargate play and then died? That's when Zerg had a HUGE advantage in the matchup and MC was in Code B. Remember when MC went early stargate, got extremely behind but won anyway? Thats when he was GSL champion.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
Yeah, and oddly enough, Idra wasn't whining during that period...
On January 30 2012 08:47 Micket wrote: There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack.
I build with a 2 minute timing window of defeat is a pretty shitty build.
One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Fact of the matter is that EVERYONE experiences bias. Even random players report being biased in certain matchups (they have the ability to more easily recognize their bias). If you watch TOP TIER PvZ during the next month you will see that it isn't nearly as bad as idra claims that it is.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. It's just that when you keep saying the same thing over and over again despite statistics and abandon hope before any match, regardless of opponent, it becomes fairly irritable.
EPT
