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On January 30 2012 08:14 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On January 30 2012 08:07 Empirimancer wrote:On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote:
even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says QFT. GL to Huk. I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret. It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong. That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question. Did you read the post I quoted? What makes Idra's opinion invalid is that his opinion has always stayed the same regardless of how well Zerg has been doing against Protoss, in Korea or elsewhere.
When Zerg was dominating Protoss, his statements were basically "ZvP is my worst matchup, and since I travel half-way across the world every week I can't catch-up with the metagame".
...Which makes your opinion invalid, because you just made things up...
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United States15275 Posts
On January 30 2012 08:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:07 Empirimancer wrote:On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote:
even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says QFT. GL to Huk. I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret. It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
A broken clock is correct twice a day. I would never rely on a broken clock to tell me the time.
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Some people are annoyed by the Idra QQ. And I can see why you may be. Regardless of it, Idra did call out that Protoss had huge potential vs Zerg and that people just weren't doing it right, even when zerg's were dominating toss. I'm sure the matchup will flip soon as it always does, but Idra did call out the future transition correctly.
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On January 30 2012 08:16 werynais wrote:
So nothing changed in 2012, Zergs still QQing the best.
Woah, that is a pretty cool sweeping generalization you made there. One Zerg who has been known to voice his complaints on balance since he played SC1 had a couple comments in his first interview of the year and you say that, "ZERGS still QQing the best."
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On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote:Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&AsSo according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
that's flawed logic. david kim's stats are from region to region win/loss ratios. it has nothing to do with how pros perceive a matchup to be. if idra says "pros in korea think x" then why does everyone suddenly disagree? i'm pretty sure he knows whats going on in the korean sc2 scene more than any other individual that questions his logic.
either way, i hope he wins. it would justify gom not giving foreigners code S seeds straight up if he doesnt.
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On January 30 2012 08:04 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote:
You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
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On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
I don't think you know what literally means.
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lol @ all the anti zerg qq
yo every pro zerg complains so we're all just insane and stupid!
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KO: Of course Avenge is not an especially highly regarded player since we’ve seen so little of him, but at the same time he at least has what it takes to get past the GSL preliminaries, and you have the most difficulties against Protoss. What do you think your chances are against him?
IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now.
"Only a sith deals in absolutes"
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On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote:Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&AsSo according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
When i saw that in his list of questions I found it quite odd.. why are zerg complaining about FFE when they can typically get away with 2 fast expo's? I don't think that's the issue at hand.... Also.. Leenock pounded Naniwa when he went FFE so perhaps that's the way to stop it.
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On January 30 2012 08:21 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:04 Whatson wrote:On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote:
You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true. I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG". This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what their talking about. An unfortunate trend..
just gonna say that that statement sounds alot like this
Mark Smith, ladies and gentlemen of the press corps, Madame First Lady, Mr. President, my name is Stephen Colbert, and tonight it is my privilege to celebrate this president, ‘cause we're not so different, he and I. We both get it. Guys like us, we're not some brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?
That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.
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On January 30 2012 08:24 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote:Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&AsSo according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true. When i saw that in his list of questions I found it quite odd.. why are zerg complaining about FFE when they can typically get away with 2 fast expo's? I don't think that's the issue at hand.... Also.. Leenock pounded Naniwa when he went FFE so perhaps that's the way to stop it.
On most maps, I find it incredibly hard to stop early roach or baneling agression with FFE.
Especially when what looks like banelings or raoches could also easily be quick muta or infestor QQ
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On January 30 2012 06:59 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
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All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
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the only zerg confident vs protoss is stephano vs foreign protosses
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On January 30 2012 08:26 FecalFrown wrote:
All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
youll be banned for that awful post, hopefully.
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United States198 Posts
Its funny that people seem to think Idra is whining, when every other Zerg in the Code S ro16 said ZvP is their toughest match-up. The only Zerg who seems able to do well in ZvP is Stephano.
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On January 30 2012 08:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:14 Empirimancer wrote:On January 30 2012 08:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On January 30 2012 08:07 Empirimancer wrote:On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote:
even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says QFT. GL to Huk. I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret. It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong. That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question. Did you read the post I quoted? What makes Idra's opinion invalid is that his opinion has always stayed the same regardless of how well Zerg has been doing against Protoss, in Korea or elsewhere. When Zerg was dominating Protoss, his statements were basically "ZvP is my worst matchup, and since I travel half-way across the world every week I can't catch-up with the metagame". ...Which makes your opinion invalid, because you just made things up...
Nah, even when Idra started saying that in interviews, he was still whining about balance on SotG and other places.
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On January 30 2012 08:26 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:59 Choboo wrote:On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
he didn't play tails and hero offline and wasnt playing them while he was in korea, try to be less obvious when you hate.
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On January 30 2012 08:26 FecalFrown wrote:
All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
Yeah, just think, if he was more polite he could have 1000 viewers on his stream, instead of the 20,000 he gets right now. What an idiot.
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EPT
