Two new interviews up with HuK and IdrA about the SlayerS house and their upcoming Code A matches. IdrA doesn't seem especially confident about his match against Avenge, saying "the matchup is absolutely awful," but he doesn't rule out a victory, either.
KO: Of course Avenge is not an especially highly regarded player since we’ve seen so little of him, but at the same time he at least has what it takes to get past the GSL preliminaries, and you have the most difficulties against Protoss. What do you think your chances are against him?
IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway.
HuK seems more confident about Terious (aka Bumblebee), citing Terious' nerve issues.
QP: We have seen your Code A opponent BumblebeePrime only a handful of times last year yet you have been in the spotlight around the world. Do you think your exposure puts you at a disadvantage? How do you think you will do against him?
HuK: I think that he has a lot of nerve issues, so since I’m a bigger name that will scare him more? I hope? haha. He knows my play style a lot more then I know his I guess. I should win.
Also, somewhat humorously, both players feel like they would be the one to win if they meet up in the Code A bracket (which would be the next round if each does win his upcoming match).
I'd love to see an EG faceoff in Code A, but I reckon there's a fair bit of truth to what idra is saying. I don't think he'll take out Avenge (Who has been showing some beastly results in various team leagues recently).
even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
If IdrA actually had a constructive attitude instead of whining about Protoss/Terran 24/7, he probably would actually not suck, and would be one of the most feared players out there.
On January 30 2012 06:55 Sliver wrote: Zzzz same shit every day from IdrA. Get better instead of whining please, it got old years ago.
Cheer up like HuK. ^_^
Well said, perhaps just a bit too blunt, but I agree. This mindset is not a positive quality you want to see in a professional athlete/competitor, and it seriously got old to be honest.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
That's why protoss have been doing terribly vs z right?
dudes, chill. What did you expect? Him saying everything is perfectly balanced? Don't we have enough people saying that? If he thinks ZvP is crap right now, then he has every right saying that if it's his opinion
Idra has a relatively easy opponent and complains already. First P in BW, then T in SC2 and now P in SC2 is what he complains about, at least he's consistent.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano reportedly doesn't use mutas because he thinks they're 'too strong' vs protoss. Atleast that what totalbiscuit(?) or some other caster said while casting some EU inv,
On January 30 2012 07:14 Hardigan wrote: dudes, chill. What did you expect? Him saying everything is perfectly balanced? Don't we have enough people saying that? If he thinks ZvP is crap right now, then he has every right saying that if it's his opinion
People are saying that his opinion hasn't changed in years so it was pretty much stating the obvious.
On January 30 2012 07:14 Hardigan wrote: dudes, chill. What did you expect? Him saying everything is perfectly balanced? Don't we have enough people saying that? If he thinks ZvP is crap right now, then he has every right saying that if it's his opinion
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
That's why protoss have been doing terribly vs z right?
On January 30 2012 07:14 Hardigan wrote: dudes, chill. What did you expect? Him saying everything is perfectly balanced? Don't we have enough people saying that? If he thinks ZvP is crap right now, then he has every right saying that if it's his opinion
Theres a difference between stating an opinion and "stating a fact". And to support that "fact", he explains that all zergs are complaining as well.
Nobody would say anything if he said "i think its a bad matchup" or "i have problems against protoss" - instead he says "pvz is broken", although real facts/statistics show otherwise.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
That's why protoss have been doing terribly vs z right?
Reading comprehension is your friend.
You do realize that the poster you quoted was basically saying that Idra whines regardless of the situation, even when Z was completely dominating Protoss by a margin of 70% (and the graph you just posted just proves that point).
lol so many people hate idra for no reason at all.
that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well.
you must hate the majority of the pro's in the gsl then too, quit hating for no reason like mindless sheep and actually think, the zvp match-up has been nerfed 3 times in a row for zerg (the patches obviously didn't have fucking up the matchup in mind, but this is just what happens in the development of a good rts.) with immortal range increase, infestors getting raped up the butthole by the nerf stick with neural parasite range to 7 and fungal dps getting reduced (which is so much bigger than people thought it would be, you need an extra fungal to kill almost every core unit other than marines and i think sentries) and protoss got cheaper upgrades.
all of these (plus the probably 40-60% fault that goes to maps, as in most balance situations) have added up to the match-up being very very hard for zerg compared to the 60-70% winrates the pro zergs (and a lot of lower leagues as well I'm sure) enjoyed before. i don't think it was necessary to make the protoss ups cheaper, other than shield upgrades omg so expensive before, and they're not good unless using very specific unit comps or super late game. i also think neural parasite was a micro inducing aspect of the game (which most agree, makes the game better as it allows skill to become more of a factor) when it had 9 range. it made infestors do things other than fungal and poop wish-we-were-as-cool-as-marines to make pseudo forcefields, when neuralling it then puts them at risk of being sniped, but not being killed before the np even lands while casting from the back of your army like now. and it forced protoss to tactically use blink, instead of either blinking everything forward, or blinking to keep as much damage on the shields as possible.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano reportedly doesn't use mutas because he thinks they're 'too strong' vs protoss. Atleast that what totalbiscuit(?) or some other caster said while casting some EU inv,
bling said it and he lives with stephano/they are really good friends
It is so sad to see, Idra is/was such an awesome gamer...i just wish he would stop whining and kick people's teeth in like he can if he just buckles down...
what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
Yeah, I wonder if it has been any point in his carrer whenever it be BW or SC2 when he hasn't been like that tbh.
Perhaps Idra hasn't heard of mutas or roaches. Very useful talent toi have. But seriously, I wish he'd stop complaining and just play lol . He shoots himself in the foot with a mentality like that.
These interviews always suck. They're so short, and like answering questions from a cop. So many interviews they get, I'm sure, so you can't blame them for being very A B C with their answers.
On January 30 2012 07:22 ambient_orange wrote: what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
On January 30 2012 07:22 ambient_orange wrote: what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
Idra always complains about ZvP. When Korean ZvP was universally considered imbalanced during spring-summer 2011 he still believed it was P-favored.
On January 30 2012 07:22 ambient_orange wrote: what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
Why would cella coach players of other teams?
I think thewind helped liquid players when they asked him I think, jinro said on his stream that he gave him some advices for tvz iirc
But yeah not many coaches will help foreigners imo, they have enough work with their own players
that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well.
you must hate the majority of the pro's in the gsl then too, quit hating for no reason like mindless sheep and actually think, the zvp match-up has been nerfed 3 times in a row for zerg (the patches obviously didn't have fucking up the matchup in mind, but this is just what happens in the development of a good rts.) with immortal range increase, infestors getting raped up the butthole by the nerf stick with neural parasite range to 7 and fungal dps getting reduced (which is so much bigger than people thought it would be, you need an extra fungal to kill almost every core unit other than marines and i think sentries) and protoss got cheaper upgrades.
all of these (plus the probably 40-60% fault that goes to maps, as in most balance situations) have added up to the match-up being very very hard for zerg compared to the 60-70% winrates the pro zergs (and a lot of lower leagues as well I'm sure) enjoyed before. i don't think it was necessary to make the protoss ups cheaper, other than shield upgrades omg so expensive before, and they're not good unless using very specific unit comps or super late game. i also think neural parasite was a micro inducing aspect of the game (which most agree, makes the game better as it allows skill to become more of a factor) when it had 9 range. it made infestors do things other than fungal and poop wish-we-were-as-cool-as-marines to make pseudo forcefields, when neuralling it then puts them at risk of being sniped, but not being killed before the np even lands while casting from the back of your army like now. and it forced protoss to tactically use blink, instead of either blinking everything forward, or blinking to keep as much damage on the shields as possible.
Some of those with negative comments are Idra fans like myself. Although I often find it hard to be his fan when all he quits games he has won or complains about balance instead of saying how he is trying to get over the hurdle. He has the attitude of a loser and until that is fixed I doubt he will ever reach his full potential. He is better than he used to be but he still seems to have some distance to go.
IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway.
IdrA should seriously stop saying that Z can't beat protoss because it is obviously untrue and he loses credibility everytime he says that. Maybe he hasn't heard of players such as Stephano, DRG, Leenock... He has three solutions: 1) Improve, 2) Stop whining 3) Stop playing. IdrA is a good player and he could be much better but his attitude is getting boring.
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
So people should just accept that ZvP is "awful" and Zerg "doesn't beat Protoss", because they aren't in KR GM?
Both DRG and Nestea expressed sentiments that ZvP is hard at the moment, but neither of them are as black and white as Idra always is. Until Idra can break through this mental block he will never beat Koreans consistently.
On January 30 2012 07:22 ambient_orange wrote: what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
Why would cella coach players of other teams?
because of friendliness duh!!
Uhh I don't think it works that way :/
They already gave them a roof over their heads, cella's time is spent coaching the players of his own team. Any time spent not doing that, would be a waste. Just because they are friendly, doesn't mean this isn't a competition haha
On January 30 2012 07:22 ambient_orange wrote: what a bullc... cella doesnt coach huk also its probably a possibility idra doesnt get coaching too.. i hope they get boxers attention.. gl for both of them!!!
Why would cella coach players of other teams?
I think thewind helped liquid players when they asked him I think, jinro said on his stream that he gave him some advices for tvz iirc
But yeah not many coaches will help foreigners imo, they have enough work with their own players
You'd think that EG would have drafted that into their agreement. Some sort of coaching help... it sucks that they can be over there in a Korean environment and still not get everything the Korean players get.
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
The problem with this is that through thick and thin, ups and downs, highs and lows of the ZvP match-up idra has stood firm on Protoss being the absolute worst thing to happen to Zerg. This is no new take on the current game, hating on Protoss is idras thing and I'v seen him hate on them since the start of beta, so forgive some fans for beginning to grow a bit tired of it.
The fact of the matter is this, PvZ has been a matchup that has swung either way (mainly in Zergs favour statistically), there's no telling which way the meta game will swing it next, and whichever way it does happen to swing it is nothing to do with either races ultimate power, it just happens to be how the game is according to current play styles and map pools.
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
The problem with this is that through thick and thin, ups and downs, highs and lows of the ZvP match-up idra has stood firm on Protoss being the absolute worst thing to happen to Zerg. This is no new take on the current game, hating on Protoss is idras thing and I'v seen him hate on them since the start of beta, so forgive some fans for beginning to grow a bit tired of it.
The fact of the matter is this, PvZ has been a matchup that has swung either way (mainly in Zergs favour statistically), there's no telling which way the meta game will swing it next, and whichever way it does happen to swing it is nothing to do with either races ultimate power, it just happens to be how the game is according to current play styles and map pools.
So what you're saying is at the time of the interview Idra's comment has some validity. Got it.
A bunch of gold league forum trolls with no high level understanding of the game what so ever critisizing a top level player for his balance comments. Yeah this thread hasn't gone to shit.
I think Idra is most likely whining about the fact that protoss has a unit that changes the map design in their favor regardless of what map he choses to play. When the zergs strongest strategy is to try and force a base race scenario with mutas then the army to army balance is clearly not where it needs to be.
i hope he gets smashed so hard by avenge, so he'll never stop whining. it's getting tiring to hear the same statement from idra over and over again, in times when you clearly see enough zergs dominating protosses in a way that the protoss cant even get a 3rd base up.
i'm looking forward to idra getting smashed, and afterwards i wanna see his angry face. sweet redemption incoming!
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
The problem with this is that through thick and thin, ups and downs, highs and lows of the ZvP match-up idra has stood firm on Protoss being the absolute worst thing to happen to Zerg. This is no new take on the current game, hating on Protoss is idras thing and I'v seen him hate on them since the start of beta, so forgive some fans for beginning to grow a bit tired of it.
The fact of the matter is this, PvZ has been a matchup that has swung either way (mainly in Zergs favour statistically), there's no telling which way the meta game will swing it next, and whichever way it does happen to swing it is nothing to do with either races ultimate power, it just happens to be how the game is according to current play styles and map pools.
So what you're saying is at the time of the interview Idra's comment has some validity. Got it.
On January 30 2012 07:29 RaiKageRyu wrote: Maybe Idra should try one of those Muta basetrades himself.
I'm sure he has. But, as usual, when zergs have a good offensive build, it's imbalanced. And have you seen what Heart of the Swarm has in store for mutas? Best not get too comfortable.
It's not because Idra 'bitched' bout the ZVP MU before that his 'bitching' now is unjust
People whining about idra's whining is getting old. Before you make stupid comments look at what the other players have to say aswell. Idra is not the only one that acknowledges that there is a problem with the MU
On January 30 2012 07:29 Dexington wrote: Idra's never gonna win with that attitude. Maybe instead of crying imbalance he should learn from Zergs who actually beat Protoss.
He would probably conclude the protoss players played terrible and would have won if they played it properly
HuK: Less lonely, more fun. Obviously he speaks English better.
Cool, Idra's English is better than Huk's. I don't know how that's obvious though!
Idra has "boy who cried wolf" working against him right now. He's well-known for balance whining, but he's also known for speaking his mind very matter-of-factly. If he's struggling against Protoss right now, it is what it is. If he's just crying about balance, then it's the old Idra. At least both he and HuK plan on beating each other if they advance.
So much bias. ZvP is pretty well balanced (ignoring infestor/brood) and statistically Zerg favored.
Yes Nestea and Idra complained about ZvP. DRG did too but his seemed more lightheared (similar to Genious's ZvP comment). DRG has a good ZvP, only Nestea and Idra fail at the MU as a whole.
Also, the up-and-comers of the Zerg generations seem to be absolutely smashing protoss (CoCa among others).
Idra´s answers were a bit too predictable. Short and not very positive at all. I agree on earlier posts, he should quit complaining and just get working his ass of to stay in the GSL.
Huk pretty much reflected the picture I have of him.
Great job with the interview. Maybe try to get some more questions in there next time and make them "fill" the answers more if possible.
On January 30 2012 07:34 Lumi wrote: love watching people whine about idras whining
The important thing is that you found a way to feel superior to both.
xkcd.
But isn't it ironic?
People whine about Idra and are telling him to stop whining, while they are whining themselve. I tell you man, they just project their mistakes to Idra and want him to fix it. Like parents educating their children.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
That's why protoss have been doing terribly vs z right?
Reading comprehension is your friend.
You do realize that the poster you quoted was basically saying that Idra whines regardless of the situation, even when Z was completely dominating Protoss by a margin of 70% (and the graph you just posted just proves that point).
No, what it shows is a decline in Z results and an increase in P results 4 months ago.
If that trend continued it would go hand in hand with what IdrA is saying.
On January 30 2012 07:37 []Phase[] wrote:there is a problem with the MU
It's called changes in the matchup. Like the kind of stuff that happened in BW for 10 years. Players will struggle as they have to change their own strategies in response to new ones. Right now Zergs are the ones who are on the back foot since Protosses have innovated their own gameplay, which they needed to do after being stomped hard by zergs 6-8 months ago.
On January 30 2012 06:53 KingOctavious wrote: but I hope I’ll win anyway.
He'll probably fail and advance straight to Code B. He's not even trying to win, he just hopes for something that's not within his power to turn the match in his favour. What an awful mindset. This guy has so much potential and I'd love to see him do well in Code A, but with that kind of mindset he will never be able to beat top Koreans consistently - regardless of the current metagame.
Well I don't blame IdrA for whining about Protoss... I mean Nestea voiced some (harsher) concerns in the group selection and DRG agreed with him, but no one gave them shit for that...In fact, even Genius said that before he used to lose all the time against DRG but the meta game has shifted in protoss' favor since the patch. Best of luck to him anyways.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
From my perspective, ZvP is favored in the zerg perspective, assuming you know how to play it. Idra does not. Zergs in the GSL generally tend to tho. Who is every other zerg
I dont mind idra calling imba, hes entitled to his opinion, but I wish he would back it up with something other than the fact that his inflated ego cant handle losing to anyone
On January 30 2012 07:29 Dexington wrote: Idra's never gonna win with that attitude. Maybe instead of crying imbalance he should learn from Zergs who actually beat Protoss.
He would probably conclude the protoss players played terrible and would have won if they played it properly
no idea why IdrA is still bitching about ZvP lol what a joke
the absolute epitome of someone with no confidence. matchup is broken because i say so, regarldess of other results. 100% chance he has to tell himself this kind of shit so he can justify losing and underachieving on a regular basis
how is it a good argument to say "EVERY ZERG WHINES LOL". every race whines about their own race being up, not as much as this guy but they do (if at all)
You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
On January 30 2012 07:34 Lumi wrote: love watching people whine about idras whining
The important thing is that you found a way to feel superior to both.
xkcd.
But isn't it ironic?
People whine about Idra and are telling him to stop whining, while they are whining themselve. I tell you man, they just project their mistakes to Idra and want him to fix it. Like parents educating their children.
now give me a psychological nobel prize.
And then people whine about people whining about Idra whining.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
This statement would hold true for any pro -idra. Ever heard of the kid that cried wolf?
Something I noted about both of those interviews, as well, on a more serious note, is that for whatever reason, both of the guys found a convenient time to drop a line about not being able to practice enough.
This is something that severely worries me about foreigners.Both of these guys are considered to be at the top of the foreigner scene, both are afford a very nice salary from their team and have superior living / training conditions in one of the top korean team's training houses. Don't have to worry about money, have superior training conditions, and yet they still seem to find a way not to get it done. I truly don't know what else they could possibly need to have a better situation set up for them.
If this is the best that NA has to offer, then truly, foreigners are a lost cause until something significant changes.
On January 30 2012 07:25 BrauL wrote: For all the people ragging on IdrA and trying so hard to prove him wrong or start some kind of ZvP argument, do any of you actually know what it's like to be playing in the ABSOLUTE TOP of the Korean ladder? The metagame in top Korean play might actually just be in favour of Protoss right now IdrA's comment could just be a reflection of that.
Perhaps but it's the exact same repeated line Idra has been dropping for literally YEARS now and nothing has changed. It has absolutely nothing to do with the state of the "ABSOLUTE TOP KOREAN METAGAMEEEEE!"
Someone should teach Idra how to baneling bust FFE fromthose greedy protosses I guess. Watching Stephano/Leenock doing that to every one of my fave's and having a 100% win rate makes me sad
After you won King of Kong I was in awe of your play. Is it still that way?
Not anymore (laugh). I practiced a lot after that but these are tough times for Zerg. I asked for advice from NesTea and he also said he's having a hard time. ZvT and ZvP are both difficult. I think Terrans and Protoss have figured out how to beat a Zerg too well. There are only 3 Zergs in the Ro16. It's ridiculous. It's so hard to play. The maps play a part as does the balance, it feels like I'm dying.
well alot of pros complain about something being harder for one side in the matchup. But for me its often the zerg having the easier time, though i like to ignore the reproduction need for zerg. Especially pvz seems currently easy for the zerg, but toss getting more accustomed to the current zerg playstyle. Idra just states his opinion, though often negative and i guess he got a bit of to negative mindset, to perform up to his bw standards, from one year of being the weakest race. Zerg is doing pretty fine currently everywhere, even in the gsl, though code S is still terran dominated, its mostly due to mass terrans being in the code S before.
On January 30 2012 07:34 Lumi wrote: love watching people whine about idras whining
The important thing is that you found a way to feel superior to both.
xkcd.
But isn't it ironic?
People whine about Idra and are telling him to stop whining, while they are whining themselve. I tell you man, they just project their mistakes to Idra and want him to fix it. Like parents educating their children.
now give me a psychological nobel prize.
And then people whine about people whining about Idra whining.
Whineception.
It's well known that whine and cheese go well together. ^^
Who here actually watched Idra's stream when he commentated?
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
lol, personally I find Terran has a reason to whine vs Protoss in late game but I can't believe Zerg still whining about Protoss. And I just ignore IdrA anyway, he doesn't have any quality of a top level champion. The best thing he could do is blaming and whining.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
On January 30 2012 07:56 Mondieu wrote: Someone should teach Idra how to baneling bust FFE fromthose greedy protosses I guess. Watching Stephano/Leenock doing that to every one of my fave's and having a 100% win rate makes me sad
I have NEVER seen Stephano cheese anybody, or baneling bust an FFE. He always gets a quick 3rd or goes mutas., he just out macros everybody he plays against and never gives up easily. Leenock does cheese a lot though, but it's mostly just pressure and drones up after initial rushes.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
Slowly but sure terrans and protoss are learning, how to beat a max zerg army efficient. A few months ago I always won when I got my ~15 BLs and ~10 infestors. Time brings changes and atm Z has to find new answers and strategies in the late game.
I don't think any statistic since March of last year shows that Protoss is beating Zerg by any significant amount. Haha he's a laugh as always. Anecdotal evidence trumps all! Good luck HuK!
Idra says negative thing about balance or a matchup = People flame him and make awesome and valuable comments and call him.. "idr-bitch"???
Honestly, if you're going to come to a thread where a player voices his opinion, no matter how wrong you think he is don't leave such negative comments. You just spread negativity -.-
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
On January 30 2012 07:43 ohampatu wrote: So much bias. ZvP is pretty well balanced (ignoring infestor/brood) and statistically Zerg favored.
Yes Nestea and Idra complained about ZvP. DRG did too but his seemed more lightheared (similar to Genious's ZvP comment). DRG has a good ZvP, only Nestea and Idra fail at the MU as a whole.
Also, the up-and-comers of the Zerg generations seem to be absolutely smashing protoss (CoCa among others).
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because they do it occasionally, while IdrA only does that. Seriously tired of IdrA always complaining about how OP Protoss is. If it's really so amazingly good he should just switch. HuK has a positive attitude as always which leads me to believe he'll win.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
He also complains about toss in BW to this day.
If i were to reference even half the comments about terran underpoweredness in BW that he made...
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because every other zerg either tries to find a way around their issues or deals with it in a constructive manner. He is about the only person that just constantly bitches and whines like a little kid.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
QFT.
GL to Huk.
I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret.
It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.
That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
i get idra has issues with protoss, but statistically the matchup is around 55/45 in protoss's favor, according to GSL november results counting code s, code a and up&down matches, and that's just looking at the liquipedia statistics, not even breaking it down to the varying strategies for each player.
I think the problem with balance discussions in the PvZ matchup are that people on both sides of this fence play someone every once in a while that buttrapes them so hard that they are left dumbfounded as to what they could have done better.
Idra probably wins the majority of his ZvP, but when he loses, he loses hard. He analyses his games and is perhaps unable to determine why he lost and concludes imbalance instead of looking harder.
My personal perspective is as follows:
Did you kill his quick third? Yes - I'll probably win No - GG
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
QFT.
GL to Huk.
I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret.
It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.
That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
Did you read the post I quoted? What makes Idra's opinion invalid is that his opinion has always stayed the same regardless of how well Zerg has been doing against Protoss, in Korea or elsewhere.
On January 30 2012 08:14 Noocta wrote: Meh.. I'm Terran so i dunno but isn't the match up all about " protoss can't move out because mutalisk are overpowered QQ " right now ?
assuming the zerg survives until mutas are out yes, for the most part.
Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&As
So according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
On January 30 2012 08:13 Roxy wrote: I think the problem with balance discussions in the PvZ matchup are that people on both sides of this fence play someone every once in a while that buttrapes them so hard that they are left dumbfounded as to what they could have done better.
Idra probably wins the majority of his ZvP, but when he loses, he loses hard. He analyses his games and is perhaps unable to determine why he lost and concludes imbalance instead of looking harder.
My personal perspective is as follows:
Did you kill his quick third? Yes - I'll probably win No - GG
This is true. Humans apparently tend to remember negative experiences more vividly than positive ones. ...I remember hearing that somewhere...don't remember where. I wonder why that is...
lol.. Well i mean i belive every job in there own aspect is OP depends on how you use it... Zerg (Idra) Protoss(Whitra,huk) Terran(Happy,tlo,thorzain) ect =) right?
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
QFT.
GL to Huk.
I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret.
It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.
That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
Did you read the post I quoted? What makes Idra's opinion invalid is that his opinion has always stayed the same regardless of how well Zerg has been doing against Protoss, in Korea or elsewhere.
When Zerg was dominating Protoss, his statements were basically "ZvP is my worst matchup, and since I travel half-way across the world every week I can't catch-up with the metagame".
...Which makes your opinion invalid, because you just made things up...
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
QFT.
GL to Huk.
I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret.
It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.
That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
A broken clock is correct twice a day. I would never rely on a broken clock to tell me the time.
Some people are annoyed by the Idra QQ. And I can see why you may be. Regardless of it, Idra did call out that Protoss had huge potential vs Zerg and that people just weren't doing it right, even when zerg's were dominating toss. I'm sure the matchup will flip soon as it always does, but Idra did call out the future transition correctly.
On January 30 2012 08:16 werynais wrote: So nothing changed in 2012, Zergs still QQing the best.
Woah, that is a pretty cool sweeping generalization you made there. One Zerg who has been known to voice his complaints on balance since he played SC1 had a couple comments in his first interview of the year and you say that, "ZERGS still QQing the best."
On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote: Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&As
So according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
that's flawed logic. david kim's stats are from region to region win/loss ratios. it has nothing to do with how pros perceive a matchup to be. if idra says "pros in korea think x" then why does everyone suddenly disagree? i'm pretty sure he knows whats going on in the korean sc2 scene more than any other individual that questions his logic.
either way, i hope he wins. it would justify gom not giving foreigners code S seeds straight up if he doesnt.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
KO: Of course Avenge is not an especially highly regarded player since we’ve seen so little of him, but at the same time he at least has what it takes to get past the GSL preliminaries, and you have the most difficulties against Protoss. What do you think your chances are against him?
IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now.
On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote: Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&As
So according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
When i saw that in his list of questions I found it quite odd.. why are zerg complaining about FFE when they can typically get away with 2 fast expo's? I don't think that's the issue at hand.... Also.. Leenock pounded Naniwa when he went FFE so perhaps that's the way to stop it.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what their talking about. An unfortunate trend..
just gonna say that that statement sounds alot like this
Mark Smith, ladies and gentlemen of the press corps, Madame First Lady, Mr. President, my name is Stephen Colbert, and tonight it is my privilege to celebrate this president, ‘cause we're not so different, he and I. We both get it. Guys like us, we're not some brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut. Right, sir?
That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.
On January 30 2012 08:16 FuTon wrote: Quoting David Kim from the Q&A from the community in Jan 25th 2012: "Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
This is something we discussed at BlizzCon as well. The new units we’re bringing in should allow zerg to play more aggressively versus players who are defending heavily with little intention of attacking in the early/mid game. For now, we believe this isn’t a game breaking issue because overall, zerg is performing well against protoss. In fact, zerg is not struggling at any level of play, and their win ratio compared to skill is extremely solid at every skill level." Source: David Kim's Q&As
So according to David Kim who is the game balance designer, what Idra said about "zerg can't beat protoss" is not true.
When i saw that in his list of questions I found it quite odd.. why are zerg complaining about FFE when they can typically get away with 2 fast expo's? I don't think that's the issue at hand.... Also.. Leenock pounded Naniwa when he went FFE so perhaps that's the way to stop it.
On most maps, I find it incredibly hard to stop early roach or baneling agression with FFE.
Especially when what looks like banelings or raoches could also easily be quick muta or infestor QQ
All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
On January 30 2012 08:26 FecalFrown wrote: All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
Its funny that people seem to think Idra is whining, when every other Zerg in the Code S ro16 said ZvP is their toughest match-up. The only Zerg who seems able to do well in ZvP is Stephano.
On January 30 2012 06:56 CoR wrote: even IF protoss is winning RIGHT NOW vs zerg, since idra is whining since beginning that p is op, even the time when z won 70+% no one can take him serious anymore about anything he says
QFT.
GL to Huk.
I've always been amused that people have used that as some sort of argument against IdrA. IdrA complained about things back in the beta that were nerfed... things that have been released have been nerfed countless times. Just because he keeps complaining and you don't like it doesn't make all the things he's said have been incorret.
It might make him sound like a broken record, but that doesn't suddenly mean the validity of many of his complaints have been wrong.
That being said, IdrA was asked a question in an interview and he gave his opinion. He didn't randomly created a thread on teamliquid complaining about balance or calling out protoss users. There is a difference between unsolicited whining and answering a question.
Did you read the post I quoted? What makes Idra's opinion invalid is that his opinion has always stayed the same regardless of how well Zerg has been doing against Protoss, in Korea or elsewhere.
When Zerg was dominating Protoss, his statements were basically "ZvP is my worst matchup, and since I travel half-way across the world every week I can't catch-up with the metagame".
...Which makes your opinion invalid, because you just made things up...
Nah, even when Idra started saying that in interviews, he was still whining about balance on SotG and other places.
On January 30 2012 08:26 FecalFrown wrote: All the hate on Idra just comes down to the fact that he wasn't cut out to be a public figure. You can't root for a sociopathic cry-baby.
Hes a smart guy, (if I remember correctly he was going to study physics in college) and that's what he should've done. Its a lot easier to imagine him in the back of a lab complaining about imbalanced energy fields... zing!
Yeah, just think, if he was more polite he could have 1000 viewers on his stream, instead of the 20,000 he gets right now. What an idiot.
idra is just complaining cuz his style of play hasn't changed in over a year, while the protoss have altered their play vs zerg! he needs to explore other strategies and cheese styles!
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
The phrase "idra never stops whining" is getting old when almost every other top zerg agrees to some extend. The game is balanced around imbalances, it was like that in BW and it is still like that. If there is stuff that is imbalanced, you counter with another imbalance, which counterbalances the first imbalance.
Any game that has several races to choose from will work that way, since the units just arent the same. Its all about exploiting imbalances that are at your disposal, and trying to avoid imbalances that your opponent has at his exposal. Currently though zerg is starting to run into a lot more imbalances, and just keep losing like they didnt stand a chance. At this point im fairly certain that zerg genuinely is weaker than the other races, but that doesnt mean you cant win at all, not yet anyways.
On January 30 2012 08:28 Funguuuuu wrote: Its funny that people seem to think Idra is whining, when every other Zerg in the Code S ro16 said ZvP is their toughest match-up. The only Zerg who seems able to do well in ZvP is Stephano.
It's Idra. People jump on everything he says, no matter if it's true or not.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
he didn't play tails and hero offline and wasnt playing them while he was in korea, try to be less obvious when you hate.
There was zero hate in my post and only a raging fanboy would see hate in my post. I have no problem with Stephano, but when we say that Stephano is the only zerg that has no problem with protoss, it doesn't really matter because he doesn't train with Koreans. Beating MaNa or Incontrol is not the same as beating MC or Genius. That was my point.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
CoCa hasn't played in like 2 months. His relation to the metagame is near zero right now, as far as what we can observe.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
He did play in Korea not too long ago and was (almost?) top 10 GM. I don't think much changed since then. He also don't have to beat every protoss if he doesn't think that he is better than every protoss.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
CoCa hasn't played in like 2 months. His relation to the metagame is near zero right now, as far as what we can observe.
last time i saw lucky play was in the team league, he got completely out played by the protoss but won through literally, the luckiest base trade ever.
You know people wouldn't accuse idra of being a whiner if he hadn't been claiming that ZvP is P favored for over a year when most of last year zerg had positive win ratios vs toss.
Normally I would be rooting for Huk, but you know recently, with the hard work Idra has been putting in I just can't help but root for him! I hope Huk and Idra meet, would be a great match.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
This is totally false. When Z got their reworked Infestor they started face smashing everyone by doing nothing but building like 20 Infestors and face rolling their keyboards to victory.
On January 30 2012 08:37 LeFroMaGe wrote: Normally I would be rooting for Huk, but you know recently, with the hard work Idra has been putting in I just can't help but root for him! I hope Huk and Idra meet, would be a great match.
I think that would be unfortunate because that would mean one of them gets knocked into code B.
newsflash for everyone wondering why idra complains, its a combination of a psychological shield and to draw views to the eg site. Pretty fucking obvious at this point.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
So you're saying foreigners are completely irrelevant? Strange of you to be posting here on a foreigner website then.
I dont completely agree with him, but he definitely has a point. For example, stephano never has beaten MC, even though he has played him several times now. MC has really strong PvZ.
On January 30 2012 08:38 Oreo7 wrote: newsflash for everyone wondering why idra complains, its a combination of a psychological shield and to draw views to the eg site. Pretty fucking obvious at this point.
I think it's consistent with how he acts in games though.. leaving games where he either has it won or has a very good chance(vs MMA for example) fits right in with a statement like that. That is the important part to me. The actual balance means little when you go in with a bad attitude.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
MVP said that terran was the worst race for a good while remember that?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Fact of the matter is that EVERYONE experiences bias. Even random players report being biased in certain matchups (they have the ability to more easily recognize their bias). If you watch TOP TIER PvZ during the next month you will see that it isn't nearly as bad as idra claims that it is.
On January 30 2012 08:37 LeFroMaGe wrote: Normally I would be rooting for Huk, but you know recently, with the hard work Idra has been putting in I just can't help but root for him! I hope Huk and Idra meet, would be a great match.
I think that would be unfortunate because that would mean one of them gets knocked into code B.
What? You don't get knocked out of code A for losing in the second round. If they met, they're both at least still on code A, and could both get into code S also.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Sure, but how are you going to disagree with NesTea? He sees you when you're sleeping and he knows when you're awake. I would sleep with my eyes open if I were you. You might find a spinecrawler and an overlord next your bed. And guess what. He has lair.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered? .
That is completely unrelated to the fact that whenever idra says something, people jump on the "idra never stops whining" bandwagon. The part where i bring up DRG, Nestea and leenock was solely for the purpose of telling people that he isnt the only one, and if they want to jump on a bandwagon, it should be labeled "wow another zerg is complaining".
MC was saying PvZ is ezpz for a long time, and recently he is crushing again in PvZ, get your facts straight.
Can someone tell me who has the best ZvP at the moment and explain why? What I see out of Leenock, DRG, Nestea atm is 'go muta or die trying'. There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack. Watching Nestea stream and literally rage quit due to not winning a game vs Protoss was a bit mind numbing as he taught everyone the power of the gas less 3 base. What does Zerg do when he has held off Protoss early pressure (zealots, blink, DT, warp prism etc.), sees Protoss take a third, tries to bust it but fails. What does Zerg do?
Oh, and for the record, Stephano has a worse record vs MC than Idra. In fact, the state of PvZ usually coincides with MC's dominance in the matchup. Remember the times when MC went early stargate play and then died? That's when Zerg had a HUGE advantage in the matchup and MC was in Code B. Remember when MC went early stargate, got extremely behind but won anyway? Thats when he was GSL champion.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
Yeah, and oddly enough, Idra wasn't whining during that period...
On January 30 2012 08:47 Micket wrote: There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack.
I build with a 2 minute timing window of defeat is a pretty shitty build.
One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
What are you talking about, i saw stephano complain about stuff in his streamchat aswell, and even to similar stuff. Fact of the matter is, many of the top zerg unanimously complain that zerg is underpowered, even players from other races agree.
Dongraegu, nestea AND leenock, all three of them complained about zerg being underpowered at some point, nestea and dongraegu recently. These are probably the top three zerg, and they unanimously complain about basically the same stuff.
MC,Sase,Naniwa, have all complained about protoss being underpowered does that mean that protoss is underpowered?
Even Whitera complained about PvZ before infestors got nerfed and he has a history of being clearminded (He talked about infestors both on state of the game and TL attack).
Fact of the matter is that EVERYONE experiences bias. Even random players report being biased in certain matchups (they have the ability to more easily recognize their bias). If you watch TOP TIER PvZ during the next month you will see that it isn't nearly as bad as idra claims that it is.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. It's just that when you keep saying the same thing over and over again despite statistics and abandon hope before any match, regardless of opponent, it becomes fairly irritable.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
It becomes whining when he claims he's better than all these other players and would win if it weren't for imbalance.
On January 30 2012 08:47 Micket wrote: There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack.
I build with a 2 minute timing window of defeat is a pretty shitty build.
And all of the top zergs go for that build. Must mean they are shitty players then i guess. Or it means zerg has to cut corners to have a shot at winning, and if those cut corners are exploited by their opponents, they just die.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Whether or not Idra's claims from a year ago were justified or not is beyond the point. Maybe his claims were justified, maybe they weren't. At the moment though, given his recent results and the fact that he's been grinding the Korean ladder (think metagame and think how he said "z doesn't beat p right now"), I think it's fairly safe to say he has a solid understanding of what he's talking about. Hence it would be better to try to understand his statements instead of scoffing at them. Either way I've stated my opinion on the matter and I'm not going to push it more than that. Agree to disagree.
On January 30 2012 08:48 Roe wrote: Idra can't stop with this comedy show of his >.> I really do think he's just joking. He couldn't be serious after all this time..
how can you possibly think that
is he winning vs protoss? no.
is everyone else in the world saying how easy zvp is? no.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
its not the bringing it up that makes us say whining, its the fact that he's been doing it forever, statistics don't back it up, AND its not a, "there is an issue with this aspect of the matchup", that would be starting a discussion, its "this matchup is FUBAR *rage*", which isn't a discussion.
@incognito, i used the stephan colbert thing to point out that the guy is basically saying the same thing of we don't rely on facts and statistics to make decisions.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
It becomes whining when he claims he's better than all these other players and would win if it weren't for imbalance.
I hope they practice like madmen and improve because everybody has been improving so much lately and the way I've seen them play lately has not impressed me. Gl.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
CoCa hasn't played in like 2 months. His relation to the metagame is near zero right now, as far as what we can observe.
Wtf are u on about? CoCa plays ladder everyday, all day. You think he just went back home to roll his thumbs since the whole drama situation?
On January 30 2012 08:47 Micket wrote: There have been situations where the best Zergs in the world die to a timing attack purely because the build they chose had a 2 minute timing window where they would just die to an attack.
I build with a 2 minute timing window of defeat is a pretty shitty build.
That's the point. Pros as good as Nestea, Leenock and DRG are doing incredibly risky builds (perhaps 2 minutes is hyperbole) because they can't forsee a way to win ZvP without mutas.
Idra himself says mutas are really really good, but risky. He is the sort of player that doesn't want to lose to someone worse than him just because he went for an unsafe build. Consequently, he can't find a safe way to go muta and thus doesn't do it very often.
On January 30 2012 08:54 Techno wrote: Isnt ZvP pretty Zerg favoured right now?
Nestea picked Dongraegu for his GSL group. What does that suggest to you? To help you out a little, both DRG and Nestea complained about zerg having a tough time against the other two races right now in their respective interviews.
DRG was basically begging nestea not to pick him for his GSL group, because he knew he would do it considering the current state of the game.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
It becomes whining when he claims he's better than all these other players and would win if it weren't for imbalance.
Oh I'm so sorry I said I'd stop but I really need to make a point here. SC2 has design flaws (note I said design, not imbalance). These flaws make it so a player can beat another player who is better than them through sheer luck. And I'm not talking about cheese, I'm talking about build order poker and things like that. There are coin flips in this game and more than one pro gamer has said this. That's why it's especially important for tournaments to avoid Bo1 at all costs.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
CoCa hasn't played in like 2 months. His relation to the metagame is near zero right now, as far as what we can observe.
Wtf are u on about? CoCa plays ladder everyday, all day. You think he just went back home to roll his thumbs since the whole drama situation?
No. What I mean is that we cannot say that CoCa is good against protoss right now because we haven't SEEN him play against protoss. That's why I added "as far as we can observe" to the end of my post. Maybe that wasn't clear enough for you. I apologize.
Have to agree with idra, zvp you have to be tricky, outthink, or take your opponent really off guard to win. A standard ZvP game where both palyers get to 3+ bases with minimal dmg and get to mass out the army of their choice; toss will win EASILY.
Every single toss unit can do good vs zerg, where as zerg can use mutas to attack where toss has no units, and or go for the slowass fuck broodlord infestor play wich totally suck ass on big maps like taldarim.
Very often will the toss CRUSH the zerg army with minimal losses, fill the supply loss with 1 round of stalker warpin (overmake warpgates late game), then kill 1 or 2 zerg bases before zerg can get a decent army that can fight what toss has.
NEVER EVER will you see a zerg army completly crush a toss army at equal supply, it doesnt happen.
Imbalanced? Try to play zerg vs protoss on ladder at high master+ for a while, and youll see what im saying.
Hell, im a zerg player and i feel more confident in my pvz than zvp.
IdrA's standard 14 hatch into excessive QQ, followed up by a ragequit in the early game. This guy has the mechanics to be great, but thats only half that game. Other half is mental. And that is his weakpoint
ZvP is crappy ATM because there is only 1 viable lategame unit comp if you want any chance of victory.
For Zerg it's Infestor/Brood, and for Protoss it's Archon Toilet backed up with Stalkers and Immortals with a sprinkling of other units.
It's just stale and predictable. Mid-game is alot of fun with different timings and whatnot but any ZvP going past the 20 min mark usually ends up the same way.
Nothing to do with balence, just how the matchup is structured.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
It becomes whining when he claims he's better than all these other players and would win if it weren't for imbalance.
Oh I'm so sorry I said I'd stop but I really need to make a point here. SC2 has design flaws (note I said design, not imbalance). These flaws make it so a player can beat another player who is better than them through sheer luck. And I'm not talking about cheese, I'm talking about build order poker and things like that. There are coin flips in this game and more than one pro gamer has said this. That's why it's especially important for tournaments to avoid Bo1 at all costs.
Not sure what that has to do with my post. Merely saying that if imbalances do exist, he should be able to recognize that a lot of the players he loses to are actually better than him, and imbalance isn't the only reason he isn't winning tournaments left and right.
This is his profession, he should voice his concerns about balance and then get back to practicing so that he can be the best Zerg. When he is the best in the world and still loses to Code B Protosses, then he can whine. It's just not the attitude of a champion.
On January 30 2012 08:54 Techno wrote: Isnt ZvP pretty Zerg favoured right now?
Nestea picked Dongraegu for his GSL group. What does that suggest to you? To help you out a little, both DRG and Nestea complained about zerg having a tough time against the other two races right now in their respective interviews.
DRG was basically begging nestea not to pick him for his GSL group, because he knew he would do it considering the current state of the game.
Uh... that Nestea is comfortable with his ZvZ, which has pretty much been an established fact ever since Nestea walked out on stage for the first time and started to roll over every single Zerg ever? >.>
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
Damn I hope you are trolling. I mean no one can be this stupid right?
No I'm serious. Why don't you go ahead and explain why I'm so stupid?
stephano is 5-3 against korean protoss.
5-3 is not a lot of games. When I said he doesn't play against Korea Protoss, I didn't mean he never has. I just mean that his daily training does not include Korean Protoss. Just because he feels comfortable on the European ladder does not mean that he would feel comfortable against the best Protoss in the world. This is why we should listen to IdrA, Nestea, DRG, etc over Stephano when it comes to balance/game design discussion.
EDIT: I just want to make it clear that I am not in any way saying that Stephano is bad or that his words do not mean anything. I'm just saying that if we have to choose between believing Nestea's (and all the other best zergs in the world) words and Stephano's words, the choice should be clear.
Nestea (all the way at the end when asked about the game balance): Julyzerg (all the way at the end when asked about the game balance): DRG is a recent interivew (mentions nestea having a hard time too): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303979
On January 30 2012 08:54 Techno wrote: Isnt ZvP pretty Zerg favoured right now?
Nestea picked Dongraegu for his GSL group. What does that suggest to you? To help you out a little, both DRG and Nestea complained about zerg having a tough time against the other two races right now in their respective interviews.
DRG was basically begging nestea not to pick him for his GSL group, because he knew he would do it considering the current state of the game.
Those situations aren't even related dude. Nestea's best match has historically been ZvZ. DRG is trying to take the crown of best zerg and if you think Nestea's pick had nothing to do with that then you are crazy.
On January 30 2012 08:50 MichaelDonovan wrote: One thing I really have to say about all this is that complaining about a perceived imbalance is NOT whining. People who use the word "whining" are just being spiteful. Because the game is so young still, it is actually very useful to have these discussions, and we should thank IdrA (as well as all of the other zergs right now) for bringing it up.
It becomes whining when he claims he's better than all these other players and would win if it weren't for imbalance.
Oh I'm so sorry I said I'd stop but I really need to make a point here. SC2 has design flaws (note I said design, not imbalance). These flaws make it so a player can beat another player who is better than them through sheer luck. And I'm not talking about cheese, I'm talking about build order poker and things like that. There are coin flips in this game and more than one pro gamer has said this. That's why it's especially important for tournaments to avoid Bo1 at all costs.
Not sure what that has to do with my post. Merely saying that if imbalances do exist, he should be able to recognize that a lot of the players he loses to are actually better than him, and imbalance isn't the only reason he isn't winning tournaments left and right.
This is his profession, he should voice his concerns about balance and then get back to practicing so that he can be the best Zerg. When he is the best in the world and still loses to Code B Protosses, then he can whine. It's just not the attitude of a champion.
I don't recall him claiming he was better than Nestea, Lucky, MMA, etc. Pretty sure he doesn't claim to be the best player in the world. However he does sometimes lose to players who are much worse than him and he loses because the design flaws of SC2 let players find a lucky window of opportunity to end the game.
Idra should just switch races already, if he does bad he just falls back on calling zerg bad-.-. Although I think it might hurt his image if he switched races and didn't do any better.
On January 30 2012 09:14 OrangeSoda wrote: Idra should just switch races already, if he does bad he just falls back on calling zerg bad-.-. Although I think it might hurt his image if he switched races and didn't do any better.
It's pretty much impossible to switch races once you're this far in.
To be fair, everyone's complained about their race at some point- including GSL players. Even the best ones. I recall MVP saying that Terran was underpowered (I believe it was as he was winning GSLs lol). I recall MC saying that Protoss was underpowered and if he played Terran he would have already won 4 or so GSLs. Heck, even Artosis has whined about balance once or twice...
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
Damn I hope you are trolling. I mean no one can be this stupid right?
No I'm serious. Why don't you go ahead and explain why I'm so stupid?
stephano is 5-3 against korean protoss.
5-3 is not a lot of games. When I said he doesn't play against Korea Protoss, I didn't mean he never has. I just mean that his daily training does not include Korean Protoss. Just because he feels comfortable on the European ladder does not mean that he would feel comfortable against the best Protoss in the world. This is why we should listen to IdrA, Nestea, DRG, etc over Stephano when it comes to balance/game design discussion.
EDIT: I just want to make it clear that I am not in any way saying that Stephano is bad or that his words do not mean anything. I'm just saying that if we have to choose between believing Nestea's (and all the other best zergs in the world) words and Stephano's words, the choice should be clear.
Idra is not playing the best Protoss in the world for your info! Please tell us more about what you "mean"!
On January 30 2012 08:54 Techno wrote: Isnt ZvP pretty Zerg favoured right now?
Nestea picked Dongraegu for his GSL group. What does that suggest to you? To help you out a little, both DRG and Nestea complained about zerg having a tough time against the other two races right now in their respective interviews.
DRG was basically begging nestea not to pick him for his GSL group, because he knew he would do it considering the current state of the game.
Those situations aren't even related dude. Nestea's best match has historically been ZvZ. DRG is trying to take the crown of best zerg and if you think Nestea's pick had nothing to do with that then you are crazy.
Honestly, you think it matter mores for them to get this crown of the best zerg than to advance further in the most prestigious SC2 tournament with so much money on the line? They're still playing to win. Their livelihood depends on it. Also, DRG specifically said he's having a hard time AS zerg, be it balance or map wise. It wasn't as if he blurted it out by accident. during the interview, he just got back to the same point repeatedly when asked different interview questions
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
On January 30 2012 09:14 OrangeSoda wrote: Idra should just switch races already, if he does bad he just falls back on calling zerg bad-.-. Although I think it might hurt his image if he switched races and didn't do any better.
It's pretty much impossible to switch races once you're this far in.
I think if BW pros like ForGG can switch games and do fine after a few months of intense practice, a SC2 pro can switch races fairly easily. I mean, he'll suck for 2-3 months, but if the end result is that he starts winning tournaments it will have been worth it.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
Yeah, and oddly enough, Idra wasn't whining during that period...
...Do you know what SotG is? Look up all the episodes before the infestor nerf, especially those with Idra in it. I can guarantee you that he complains about racial imbalances in 100% of those.
On January 30 2012 06:59 stonetalon wrote: even when zerg is destoying toss idra complains X_X i don't get it anymore...
He tends to whine, don't let it get to you.
I'm surprised at the writer. He decided to highlight the balance part of the article. To draw people in. When one of them loses there will be balance whine, aggravated by the approval of TL.
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
To be fair, everyone's complained about their race at some point- including GSL players. Even the best ones. I recall MVP saying that Terran was underpowered (I believe it was as he was winning GSLs lol). I recall MC saying that Protoss was underpowered and if he played Terran he would have already won 4 or so GSLs. Heck, even Artosis has whined about balance once or twice...
I can remember when MVP said terran was underpowered. It was kinda silly then too because terrans continued to get nerfed further after he said it. Also, no one treated him seriously because he was like the only pro in the world complaining about terran being underpowered, possibly ever(I can't think of any other terran complaining about their race. Some complained about the maps though). Collectively, I would think most high profile zerg players have complained about the balance of the game at some point (Sen, Xigua, etc). But, you cant say the same about any other race.
Okay guys, it's was kind of cute when you complained about imbalance for the first twenty-three months of StarCraft II that followed the launch of the Wings of Liberty beta, but now it's getting pretty damn sad. Either pick a different race, quit playing the game, or stop bitching. That also goes to all the professional foreign players who think their opinion on the topic hasn't worn out its welcome, because we get it, you play the game for a living and that's the only reason you give a crap about the game. You just can't phrase it that way because Blizzard Entertainment has no interest in you guys beyond using your matches as an advertisement to sell more copies of StarCraft II. They don't want you saying "StarCraft II sucks, I play it because it's my job." Well, it's your job. Shut up and do your job.
On January 30 2012 07:52 Incognoto wrote: You know, it's not really my kind of thing condoning whining and complaining. It tends to get on my nerves. I also believe that Idra isn't playing to the best of his capacity. He's got the rote mechanics but he needs that extra something... Either way, I also really dislike people, who really don't know better, shitting on a professional opinion.
"Well, if Idra said ZvP is imba atm, it sure as hell must not be"... come on guys seriously? Who plays SC2 all day long? You or Idra? Who has the better insight on the game?
Again, I'm not saying Idra is always right and that he should be worshiped like Flash a god, but his statements should at very least not be scoffed at that lightly and should hold some meaning.
The biggest problem with his statements is that he's ALWAYS said that Protoss is OP against Zerg. Ever since he lost to White-ra in the HDH Invitational in early beta, he's been complaining against toss nonstop. Even when ZvP was considered heavily zerg favored, he continued to say that Toss was OP. So really, nobody should believe him when he claims that Toss is OP now, because, after all, he's been saying the same thing for the past two years, and it's almost never been true.
I'm not going to defend Idra's pov, nor am I going to defend Idra's "whining". Yeah he does complain a lot, but unlike everyone here who can only base their arguments on statistics and theorycrafting, Idra has actual experience. My point is that people are too quick to dismiss his opinion. Instead of "Oh well, I wonder why Idra believes that ZvP is imba, it would be interesting to know why he believes something like that, especially considering the level at which he plays" people are going "LOLOL IDRA IS GAY AND WRONG".
This happened in the crowbar/policemen thread too. People have their heads stuck so far up their asses their ears are filled with shit and they absolutely refuse to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about. An unfortunate trend..
Once again, it's because he's always claimed 'Toss imba!' In the beginning, I think a lot of us might have believed him, but he's been saying the same thing forever. He loses more and more credibility the longer he repeats himself in the same way, especially since Code S zergs like Coca and Lucky are doing fantastic versus Toss. Maybe it's just that Idra isn't good enough to compete against the upper tier Protoss. I mean, he's always blamed others for his losses so...
Of course, what people like you tend to forget is that Protoss has been nerfed in ZvP repeatedly since release as well...
Not exactly crying wolf when the balance patches match your statements every single time, is it?
Infestor nerf? Unless you forgot about the days when Infestors could wipe out an entire Protoss army through fungals and NP
Yeah, and oddly enough, Idra wasn't whining during that period...
...Do you know what SotG is? Look up all the episodes before the infestor nerf, especially those with Idra in it. I can guarantee you that he complains about racial imbalances in 100% of those.
Actually he said that infestors were super super good, but they had to be cos everything else sucked. After infestor nerf and immortal buff, he thought ZvP was unwinnable again.
He said that in a few months time, Protoss players would learn to do immortal based defense to take bases with warp prism harass, to buy time and slow down zerg tech, into mothership death ball to hit a timing before there were too many broodlords. He said that as soon as the immortal was buffed. He also said for months that ghosts were amazing TvZ and that they countered infestor broodlord, back in the day when Terrans said infestor broodlord was overpowered. Disagree with Idra all you want on his opinion, but when he talks about what is good and what is gonna be huge in a few months, people should listen.
On January 30 2012 08:54 Techno wrote: Isnt ZvP pretty Zerg favoured right now?
Nestea picked Dongraegu for his GSL group. What does that suggest to you? To help you out a little, both DRG and Nestea complained about zerg having a tough time against the other two races right now in their respective interviews.
DRG was basically begging nestea not to pick him for his GSL group, because he knew he would do it considering the current state of the game.
Those situations aren't even related dude. Nestea's best match has historically been ZvZ. DRG is trying to take the crown of best zerg and if you think Nestea's pick had nothing to do with that then you are crazy.
They aren't related? Even though at the same time that Nestea picked DRG he straight out said that he doesn't know how to beat protoss right now? He said he's tried so many different strategies and none of them are working.
On January 30 2012 09:28 MSMatrix wrote: IdrA is the ONLY one whining about protoss always beating zerg. THE GAME IS BALANCED. wtf
Nah, Nestea/DRG/Dimaga all say the same thing in pretty much every interview where they're asked. It's not really an uncommon sentiment among pro zergs. Idra's just the most vocal/whiny/bm of them, so he gets shit for it.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
Damn I hope you are trolling. I mean no one can be this stupid right?
No I'm serious. Why don't you go ahead and explain why I'm so stupid?
stephano is 5-3 against korean protoss.
All his wins come from PvP sniper Inori (2-1), random encounter with Tails (where he went 2-2) and a tilted HerO that just blanked out. Also, he's lost 0-2 to MC, 0-2 to Naniwa, and beaten HuK 2-0.
So, vs "Koreans" I'd say Stephano is 6-7. Against Code S class Koreans (now excluding Inori because he's achieved basically nothing in GSL, and Tails because his list of Korea achievements are that he's beaten Nestea (GSTL) once and BoongBoong (Zotac cup) once... a long time ago in games that were terrible) his record would be 2-4.
Of course a 33% win rate would be an unfair measurement of his skill... but the fact that people consider him a Korean Slayer and some of the "Best ZvP" in the world is also quite unfair to other Zergs who've less than a tenth the fame but proven skill in the match up against the best of the best.
On January 30 2012 09:28 MichaelJLowell wrote: Okay guys, it's was kind of cute when you complained about imbalance for the first twenty-three months of StarCraft II that followed the launch of the Wings of Liberty beta, but now it's getting pretty damn sad. Either pick a different race, quit playing the game, or stop bitching. That also goes to all the professional foreign players who think their opinion on the topic hasn't worn out its welcome, because we get it, you play the game for a living and that's the only reason you give a crap about the game. You just can't phrase it that way because Blizzard Entertainment has no interest in you guys beyond using your matches as an advertisement to sell more copies of StarCraft II. They don't want you saying "StarCraft II sucks, I play it because it's my job." Well, it's your job. Shut up and do your job.
Why can't he do whatever he wants? He's definitely putting in an effort to do well. He moved all the way to korea! Why can't a player voice his frustrations? Whether it's right or not, he can say whatever he wants in his interview.
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
Except, those players are all really bad, comparatively to him. Most of the snippets showed some random nobody trying to do some early game shenanigans. Why is this new to you that he is better than all of the non pros on the ladder?
Idra thinks he'd beat up but zerg can't beat protoss? I guess he still thinks huk is garbage, a little behind the times. While Huk may not be worlds greatest protoss, he's certainly a competent one.
On January 30 2012 09:28 MichaelJLowell wrote: Okay guys, it's was kind of cute when you complained about imbalance for the first twenty-three months of StarCraft II that followed the launch of the Wings of Liberty beta, but now it's getting pretty damn sad. Either pick a different race, quit playing the game, or stop bitching. That also goes to all the professional foreign players who think their opinion on the topic hasn't worn out its welcome, because we get it, you play the game for a living and that's the only reason you give a crap about the game. You just can't phrase it that way because Blizzard Entertainment has no interest in you guys beyond using your matches as an advertisement to sell more copies of StarCraft II. They don't want you saying "StarCraft II sucks, I play it because it's my job." Well, it's your job. Shut up and do your job.
Why can't he do whatever he wants? He's definitely putting in an effort to do well. He moved all the way to korea! Why can't a player voice his frustrations? Whether it's right or not, he can say whatever he wants in his interview.
He can, but we're also entitled to call him out for that opinion, his skill as a top-level Western player be damned. He's not entitled to continuously complain about insurmountable odds so long as his penchant for quitting on winning and even positions continues to be his own worst enemy. I know it's a pain in the ass to play forty-plus hours a week, then hear Silver and Gold League players talk about how you're the worst StarCraft player on the face of the planet. But I can assure that IdrA isn't mired in the ranks of professional StarCraft mediocrity because of a perceived imbalance against a particular matchup. He was a mediocre professional StarCraft player back in Brood War, too.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
Completely exaggerated dude. He didnt smash his keyboard to pieces. He flicked his headset on his keyboard while packing up after the game and that was it.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Yes. Very often he has said "I am not very good against protoss."
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
Completely exaggerated dude. He didnt smash his keyboard to pieces. He flicked his headset on his keyboard while packing up after the game and that was it.
O_o you provide the the video, but you can clearly see he smashed his headphone onto his keyboard. Not to mention he sits there for a good 10 secs after it. o_O
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Yes. Very often he has said "I am not very good against protoss."
But most of the time he usually ends up saying that protoss is not balanced O-o
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
Except, those players are all really bad, comparatively to him. Most of the snippets showed some random nobody trying to do some early game shenanigans. Why is this new to you that he is better than all of the non pros on the ladder?
So its pro now to lose against early game shenanigans? I watched TLOs stream now for the last week at least 3 hours a day, he actually asked on stream why everyone is trying to all-in him - and he was thankful, because you learn to cope with earlygame crap by dealing with it.
If you cant deal with shenanigans (is that btw a real word or did Day9 invent that? Honestly curious), hm.. Dunno.
Other than that, he rages in tournaments as well. May it be ragequits, premature quits or open rage after a game.
edit
Completely exaggerated dude. He didnt smash his keyboard to pieces. He flicked his headset on his keyboard while packing up after the game and that was it.
I already said that i stated it a bit exaggerated. But do you really want to tell me that he actually thought "well, i think i made a mistake somewhere", while slamming his headset into the keyboard (hard enough to pop a key)?
Come on. Btw i didnt post that video for a reason, i didnt really meant to discuss it here.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano doesn't play against Korean Protoss so it doesn't matter what he thinks about the matchup.
Damn I hope you are trolling. I mean no one can be this stupid right?
No I'm serious. Why don't you go ahead and explain why I'm so stupid?
stephano is 5-3 against korean protoss.
5-3 is not a lot of games. When I said he doesn't play against Korea Protoss, I didn't mean he never has. I just mean that his daily training does not include Korean Protoss. Just because he feels comfortable on the European ladder does not mean that he would feel comfortable against the best Protoss in the world. This is why we should listen to IdrA, Nestea, DRG, etc over Stephano when it comes to balance/game design discussion.
EDIT: I just want to make it clear that I am not in any way saying that Stephano is bad or that his words do not mean anything. I'm just saying that if we have to choose between believing Nestea's (and all the other best zergs in the world) words and Stephano's words, the choice should be clear.
Idra is not playing the best Protoss in the world for your info! Please tell us more about what you "mean"!
He is training on the Korean ladder. Stephano is training on the European ladder. This is what I "mean"!
EDIT: He is also training in the SlayerS team house with Puzzle.
if idra was actually anywhere near the top level of zergs in korea I'd actually consider those words seriously for half a second but the truth is he isn't.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Yes. Very often he has said "I am not very good against protoss."
But most of the time he usually ends up saying that protoss is not balanced O-o
It's more like "I am not very good against protoss because protoss is imbalanced"
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Trimaster* isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Trimaster* didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
Didn't you see Stephano completely dismantle Protoss today? He always says that ZvP is EZPZ
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
Ok I'm fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at stephano and coca, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is only more vocal?
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look?
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look?
It wasn't Fenix he played.
It was coL.Trimaster at MLG Raleigh I believe. It might have been Orlando....one of the two I was at anyway. Pretty sure it was Raleigh though.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
In Korea it is very rude to complain like that. It's a bit different. He has to kind of skirt around the issue like that because he doesn't want to seem like a rude person.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
Why is IdrA saying it straight up instead of hinting around it and strongly suggesting it inherently worse?
On January 30 2012 06:59 stonetalon wrote: even when zerg is destoying toss idra complains X_X i don't get it anymore...
I think I've figured out the algorithm (the Idralgorithm if you will)
Toss is winning a lot vs zerg: "Toss players are all rapists irl and I'm going to put in a gun in my mouth" Toss is even with zerg: "Zerg never beats toss unless the player is just way better" Zerg is winning a lot against zerg: "The matchup's okay but toss units are still too powerful"
On January 30 2012 09:44 m4inbrain wrote: So its pro now to lose against early game shenanigans? I watched TLOs stream now for the last week at least 3 hours a day, he actually asked on stream why everyone is trying to all-in him - and he was thankful, because you learn to cope with earlygame crap by dealing with it.
If you cant deal with shenanigans (is that btw a real word or did Day9 invent that? Honestly curious), hm.. Dunno.
Other than that, he rages in tournaments as well. May it be ragequits, premature quits or open rage after a game.
IdrA's pretty good at defending cheese, he just despises it.
"I aim solely for reliability and consistency. I despise players that flip coins and try to get wins that they don't really deserve."
If he rages... so what? Djokovic rages and routinely destroys his equipment in tournaments, yet he's the #1 tennis player in the world.
On January 30 2012 06:59 stonetalon wrote: even when zerg is destoying toss idra complains X_X i don't get it anymore...
I think I've figured out the algorithm (the Idralgorithm if you will)
Toss is winning a lot vs zerg: "Toss players are all rapists irl and I'm going to put in a gun in my mouth" Toss is even with zerg: "Zerg never beats toss unless the player is just way better" Zerg is winning a lot against zerg: "The matchup's okay but toss units are still too powerful"
On January 30 2012 07:22 werynais wrote: My god idra really has to stop whining already... this is just pathetic now.
Yeah man, before it was just IdrA being IdrA but right now at this instant after years of saying things like this from BW to SC2 without showing signs of stopping he has crossed the line.
Seriously I don't know how people can get worked up or act like its big news when IdrA claims that the race he doesn't play is overpowered, he has been doing that since the dawn of time and will do it until the end of the universe.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
Didn't you see Stephano completely dismantle Protoss today? He always says that ZvP is EZPZ
Ive seen idra completely dismantle Protoss on a given day as well. In fact, Idra probably would have beat the people stephano beat with as much ease (or close to it). It doesn't change the fact it cannot be used in an argument on something like ZvP balance.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done.
Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
I mean what do these kids expect? It's not like it'd be smart of blizzard to instantly patch a game with huge changes anytime one matchup swings like 5% in the favor of one race or the other (god forbid!), whining does absolutely nothing but get you more e-fame with the balance whiner kiddies on TL.
On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote: doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson
In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
At least the Gracken is consistent in his opinion. Why is he not allowed to dislike that particular matchup? It just seems to be a weird complex he has about playing vs Protoss. Even when Terran were tearing things up I don't recall him complaining half as much about that race, so it's probably just a matchup that stylistically he feels uncomfortable in.
Nothing wrong with that, and a bit of forthright opinion every so often does no harm.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done.
Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
If you watched the GSL group selections you would know. I think he assumed that everyone is keeping up with the scene, so he felt he didn't need to post evidence. I don't think that's an unfair assumption to make. People who mindlessly post nonsense without even being up to date with the current situation are in your words, "just retarded."
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look?
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: Ok I'm fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at stephano and coca, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is only more vocal?
yes, because he should say something along the lines of "the matchup is favored toward protoss but i will try my hardest" instead of "protoss imba. rage quit."
On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote: doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson
In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
About the video, well, apart from being cocky (which is actually okay for me, why not - a big ego doesnt hurt), the video didnt really explain anything, or did i miss something?
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done.
Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
If you watched the GSL group selections you would know. I think he assumed that everyone is keeping up with the scene, so he felt he didn't need to post evidence. I don't think that's an unfair assumption to make. People who mindlessly post nonsense without even being up to date with the current situation are in your words, "just retarded."
I watched GSL group, I saw what 1 zerg say the matchup is kinda hard (and also say zergs they didn't want to play ZvsZs either... so what, it's fine to not really favor a particular match up at the moment)? That's completely different from claiming "every zerg says 'zerg doesn't beat protoss'" which is completely stupid and false.
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look?
It wasn't Fenix he played.
It was coL.Trimaster at MLG Raleigh I believe. It might have been Orlando....one of the two I was at anyway. Pretty sure it was Raleigh though.
Oh screw me, you're right. My bad.. I'll edit. Thanks for pointing it out.
On January 30 2012 10:01 darkest44 wrote: I mean what do these kids expect? It's not like it'd be smart of blizzard to instantly patch a game with huge changes anytime one matchup swings like 5% in the favor of one race or the other (god forbid!), whining does absolutely nothing.
So if the game is balanced why does Blizzard create balance patches at all? Was the game balanced before reapers were nerfed? Win ratios were about the same, that doesn't mean the game was balanced. Part of the reason Blizzard fixes things is because pro players point out the problems with the game.
A player who practices 8 hours a day has the credibility to point out flaws in the game design. What's your credibility?
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
Didn't you see Stephano completely dismantle Protoss today? He always says that ZvP is EZPZ
He also only competes in easy(er) foreign tournaments. No opinion on balance either way but stephano's results aren't something you should use to argue overall balance, or any single person for that matter.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done.
Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
If you watched the GSL group selections you would know. I think he assumed that everyone is keeping up with the scene, so he felt he didn't need to post evidence. I don't think that's an unfair assumption to make. People who mindlessly post nonsense without even being up to date with the current situation are in your words, "just retarded."
I watched GSL group, I saw what 1 zerg say the matchup is kinda hard? That's completely different from claiming "every zerg says 'zerg doesn't beat protoss'" which is completely stupid and false.
Watch it again. And by "every zerg", I'm sure he meant "every relevant zerg" and by "says zerg doesn't beat protoss" I'm sure he means "says it in the way they need to say it in order to not get into trouble with the groups they represent."
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done.
Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
It has nothing to do with them being immature. They play this game for a living, not just for fun. If something is imbalanced and causes them to lose it can cost them a *lot* of money; it can be frustrating losing thousands of dollars because of what they perceive (and often is) imbalance. Idra doesn't think he's the perfect player and he, just like every pro, will look to improve even when the match-up is "imbalanced," but that's not going to make him or anyone else not speak their mind.
The reason Idra gets so much shit is because he over-exaggerates in his statements and everyone takes it literally. He's not actually saying that Protoss has 100% win-rate against Zerg or anything; he's just stating that ZvP is P favored at the moment, a sentiment a lot of top Zergs and even top Protosses would agree with. Honestly it doesn't even need to be true imbalance for that to happen, Protoss winning more often could quickly shift to Zerg winning more often when Zerg finds new strategies to handle whatever Toss is doing atm and vice versa. It's funny, because if he had just said the exact same thing with "Zergs are having a hard time against Protoss right now" very few people would be bitching.
On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote: doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson
In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
I seriously don't see why people would use Nestea's balance comments as credible anyways - half a year or so ago he kept claiming protoss was OP, only to reveal shortly after that his ZvP win rate was 90%. Sure his ZvP may indeed be struggling right now, but its impossible to gauge the amount of exaggeration in it imho.
On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote: doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson
In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
About the video, well, apart from being cocky (which is actually okay for me, why not - a big ego doesnt hurt), the video didnt really explain anything, or did i miss something?
How does that link prove anything? You linked me strictly his GSL games which also date back over a year ago when Iam talking about nestea in the last 3-4 months. I wouldn't be surprised if Nestea was sub 50% ZvP right now.
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
Oh, sorry. I didn't get the memo about how subtle complaining is better than simply speaking your mind. Also, Idra is always able to justify his complains. Just watch some of his actual video interviews. Most of those who're whining about what he said are just calling him out without being able to prove him wrong in the first place.
On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote: If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp.
Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference.
Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing.
Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race.
It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board.
Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure.
He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad".
That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it.
Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ).
I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it.
Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again.
Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games.
I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look?
Although "He 15 hatches a lot and when he doesn’t 15 hatch he 10 pools, plus doing something unexpected and cheesy in the first game of a series can be good psychologically." is quite funny after seeing the video posted earlier. ;>
And, btw, im completely okay with the statement he did there: "I despise ZvP, but SlayerS is great about helping me prepare for matches and Avenge is nothing special. I’m sure they’ll help me figure something out and I’ll beat him.".
Now compared to that, look at this: "IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway."
Is it just me, or is it hard to believe that both statements are from the same player? He couldve been just fine, instead hes opting for whining. And please, its just that. Nobody would really care if he would just state an opinion (at least for me) - but he is not. Hes bitching, hes whiny, he is excusing himself even before a match started - thats A not confident (which is already a huge disadvantage) and B, well, whiny.
Im sorry, at least in my eyes.
edit
How does that link prove anything? You linked me strictly his GSL games which also date back over a year ago when Iam talking about nestea in the last 3-4 months. I wouldn't be surprised if Nestea was sub 50% ZvP right now.
Well, what do you want? Its a statistic vs. korean protoss, isnt it? Go figure, it goes back even more. But in 2011 alone he won 75%. The last one vs Naniwa in december. I wont invent a new statistic just to prove something - someone asked where the 77% are from and i linked it, so deal with it oO
Maybe if Idra hadn't been saying the same thing for 15 months this would be worth discussing =/
Not to say ZvP hasn't recently gotten harder, but since Idra's complaints haven't actually changed there's nothing to discuss here from Idra that hasn't already been discussed by Idra.
If someone with a good ZvP record said this and gave evidence in an interview perhaps we could discuss it.
Btw: don't get why people are bringing up the group selections as evidence. Nestea complains in every group selection, but he does it with a laugh. He also says he would have won every championship ever if he was Terran, but people don't take that seriously...or do they?
On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote: Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"?
Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well?
DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
Oh, sorry. I didn't get the memo about how subtle complaining is better than simply speaking your mind. Also, Idra is always able to justify his complains. Just watch some of his actual video interviews. Most of those who're whining about what he said are just calling him out without being able to prove him wrong in the first place.
Subtle complaining is at the very least a hell of a lot more professional than outright whining, and just because he can give reasons for why "zerg can't win against protoss" doesn't mean that that ridiculous statement suddenly comes true. I'm sure anybody can create an initially plausible sounding "x can't beat y," but it doesn't make it a true statement and it isn't at all productive. All it does is reinforce a negative image of that player.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
ask stephano
Stephano reportedly doesn't use mutas because he thinks they're 'too strong' vs protoss. Atleast that what totalbiscuit(?) or some other caster said while casting some EU inv,
bling said it and he lives with stephano/they are really good friends
And what's the point of it? So Blizz doesn't pull a Thorzain on him and nerf mutas to be useless in ZvT because they are OP ZvP? Else it just sounds silly to me...
I bet if Idra was Protoss, he would say the exact opposite - Protoss can't beat Zerg
Guys, when will you wake up and see that Idra has been like this since BROOD WAR. He complained TERRAN was the most underpowered race and we all see how statement turned out.
Please stop following what he says like blind sheep...
On January 30 2012 10:26 SkimGuy wrote: I bet if Idra was Protoss, he would say the exact opposite - Protoss can't beat Zerg
Guys, when will you wake up and see that Idra has been like this since BROOD WAR. He complained TERRAN was the most underpowered race and we all see how statement turned out.
Please stop following what he says like blind sheep...
...i dont think many people in this thread or anywhere think that IdrA's comments on balance are impartial...
however I dont get the angst about his comments -.- i mean you'd think we'd get desensitized over a few years
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
Idra already preparing his excuses for when he loses rather than putting in the time and effort to overcome his weaknesses. Oh well, it is much easier to whine than it is to man up.
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
I didn't include NesTea because he had only played 3 ZvP's in the last 3 months
(Good) Zergs don't have any problem with Protoss. Deal with it.
this is an excellent post but doesn't tell the whole story, albeit it's still very useful, thank you.
I think what IdrA really means is 'my style of passive macro doesn't beat protoss right now.' A lot of these Zerg wins vs Protoss are very coin flippy and you can see that reflected in this post with a lot of Z close to 50/50 vs. toss. A lot of ZvP comes down to gimmicky all-in coin flips, not all certainly. I personally feel Z has a slight edge right now because of the muta situation and the threat of an all-in.. but needless to say it's not a super stable match-up. It requires a lot of gimmicky shit at times and that's something IdrA doesn't like to do.
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
I didn't include NesTea because he had only played 3 ZvP's in the last 3 months
(Good) Zergs don't have any problem with Protoss. Deal with it.
pfft you must be trolling. Numbers are obviously like this because those Z players are much better than skillless P opponents and can overcome the obvious imbalance in ZvP. I mean Idra said there is one, so yah! jk obviously, thanks for the post
edit: to be fair, looking at Korean win rates, a jump from 70% to 45% in a couple of months may indicate that changes were too much.. or maybe P just figured out new timings etc due to changes and Z need to readjust. Still, even if there is a slight P imba, i doubt that that's why Idra loses, since he was complaining even during times Z was dominating
It always seems to me like IdrA answers questions pretty honestly. I mean, it's not like he created some topic here on TL about how imba protoss is -- he's not going out of his way to complain.
The interviewer asked him an honest question, he gave an honest answer. You guys that are complaining about IdrA complaining are much, much more annoying.
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
I didn't include NesTea because he had only played 3 ZvP's in the last 3 months
(Good) Zergs don't have any problem with Protoss. Deal with it.
But that actually doesn't mean very much. That's an extremely small sample, ZvP has changed a lot in 3 months, and a lot of these players were just better than their opponents. Maps have also changed quite a bit iirc. A lot of those records also aren't very good, considering. I only looked at a few, but Leenock and a few others had the worst win-rate in ZvP in the last 3 months, so it's at least their weakest match-up.
Not necessarily agreeing with you, just stating that your evidence means very little. I mean when you've played 10-15 games total changing the outcome of one or two games makes a huge difference in your record. There's really no way to prove it one way or the other with the tiny amount of data we have.
On January 30 2012 10:34 tdt wrote: idra should watch DRG. I don't think MC has ever beat him and MC has rarly beat nestea.
Yes average zergs (idra) can't beat good protoss (MC) but match is still zerg favored at the tippy top.
Yeah just like how average protosses (inca, treme,adelscott) can't beat good terrans (Bomber,ForGG,Nada,MVP) especially in macro games where clearly the better player mechanics wise will win, but match is still terran favored at tippy top. At the very least you will never see Code S terrans like super nova going cheese on crossfire in order to beat a code b protoss when they willingly play macro games against top zergs like DRG .
Maybe average protoss are just better at playing macro games than top zergs and terrans though, only in tvp though it seems... weird.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because they've learned it from him. Every foreign zerg seem to think IdrA's word is law for some reason. Actual statistics tell another story.
You cant be serious. Are you?
They're PRO gamers, they have they're opinions because they have a much further understanding of this game than the average joe Starcraft players. (Such as you) Thus they have their own knowledge of knowing if a matchup feels a bit unfair. I mean really, do you think every pro zerg players bows down on Idra opinions? No, and saying that is just silly.
On January 30 2012 10:51 Fighter wrote: It always seems to me like IdrA answers questions pretty honestly. I mean, it's not like he created some topic here on TL about how imba protoss is -- he's not going out of his way to complain.
The interviewer asked him an honest question, he gave an honest answer. You guys that are complaining about IdrA complaining are much, much more annoying.
You apparentely don't know who IdrA is. This shit has been going on for years well before the release of Star2. It's just now that new people to the scene who become fanboys think he's a top Zerg and that his word is law which is much, much more annoying.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because they've learned it from him. Every foreign zerg seem to think IdrA's word is law for some reason. Actual statistics tell another story.
You cant be serious. Are you?
They're PRO gamers, they have they're opinions because they have a much further understanding of this game than the average joe Starcraft players. (Such as you) Thus they have their own knowledge of knowing if a matchup feels a bit unfair. I mean really, do you think every pro zerg players bows down on Idra opinions? No, and saying that is just silly.
They also have a bias just like average Joes, and just as easily may have a hard time distinguishing between imba and own shortcomings
"IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway."
Christ. I need to find that Rekrul rant.
"This is what MAKES idra, without his infamous personality towards this game, he would probably be just another average pro-gamer."
It's a ridiculous opinion. Back in March/April ,alright we could be more sympathetic. Since then though... his mechanics aren't what the hype makes them and his mentality with Toss is definitely off-color. What's terrible about this is that Idra's words justify another round of innane qq by any zerg not mutarolling people. We've finally seen some revolution in Toss play along with needed map changes to deal with the free third and he's complaining. Well we'll see won't we. 6 months I figure to my displeasure that I'll be vindicated again.
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because they've learned it from him. Every foreign zerg seem to think IdrA's word is law for some reason. Actual statistics tell another story.
You cant be serious. Are you?
They're PRO gamers, they have they're opinions because they have a much further understanding of this game than the average joe Starcraft players. (Such as you) Thus they have their own knowledge of knowing if a matchup feels a bit unfair. I mean really, do you think every pro zerg players bows down on Idra opinions? No, and saying that is just silly.
How nice of you to put words in my mouth. It was never implied that other progamers have the same opinions as IdrA as there was no evidence to CameronJ's claim. Get over yourself.
On January 30 2012 11:13 Sabu113 wrote: "This is what MAKES idra, without his infamous personality towards this game, he would probably be just another average pro-gamer."
It's a ridiculous opinion. Back in March/April ,alright we could be more sympathetic. Since then though... his mechanics aren't what the hype makes them and his mentality with Toss is definitely off-color. What's terrible about this is that Idra's words justify another round of innane qq by any zerg not mutarolling people. We've finally seen some revolution in Toss play along with needed map changes to deal with the free third and he's complaining. Well we'll see won't we. 6 months I figure to my displeasure that I'll be vindicated again.
I think ZvP favors the person who is willing to be the bigger cunt right now.
Zergs advantage lies from hiding behind a billion spines while either going for the base trade or the masssssss brood infestor army. Meanwhile Protoss advantage comes from the fact that they have so so so many different "Surprise! This is what I did and you werent 100% ready so now you die" kinda builds.
It's no wonder that none of the sides like the mu that much right now.
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
I didn't include NesTea because he had only played 3 ZvP's in the last 3 months
(Good) Zergs don't have any problem with Protoss. Deal with it.
this is an excellent post but doesn't tell the whole story, albeit it's still very useful, thank you.
I think what IdrA really means is 'my style of passive macro doesn't beat protoss right now.' A lot of these Zerg wins vs Protoss are very coin flippy and you can see that reflected in this post with a lot of Z close to 50/50 vs. toss. A lot of ZvP comes down to gimmicky all-in coin flips, not all certainly. I personally feel Z has a slight edge right now because of the muta situation and the threat of an all-in.. but needless to say it's not a super stable match-up. It requires a lot of gimmicky shit at times and that's something IdrA doesn't like to do.
A win ratio close to 50% does not indicate coinflip whatsoever. Are you considering things from the Toss point of view? are they never supposed to win?
On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote: How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Because they've learned it from him. Every foreign zerg seem to think IdrA's word is law for some reason. Actual statistics tell another story.
You cant be serious. Are you?
They're PRO gamers, they have they're opinions because they have a much further understanding of this game than the average joe Starcraft players. (Such as you) Thus they have their own knowledge of knowing if a matchup feels a bit unfair. I mean really, do you think every pro zerg players bows down on Idra opinions? No, and saying that is just silly.
Just noise. appeal to authority is a logical fallacy not to mention ALL pro gamers complain about their race just shows how bias they are. Math and statistics have no bias and working from there the ZvP seems pretty balanced right now. TvP and TvZ are still Terran favored.
On January 30 2012 11:13 Sabu113 wrote: "This is what MAKES idra, without his infamous personality towards this game, he would probably be just another average pro-gamer."
It's a ridiculous opinion. Back in March/April ,alright we could be more sympathetic. Since then though... his mechanics aren't what the hype makes them and his mentality with Toss is definitely off-color. What's terrible about this is that Idra's words justify another round of innane qq by any zerg not mutarolling people. We've finally seen some revolution in Toss play along with needed map changes to deal with the free third and he's complaining. Well we'll see won't we. 6 months I figure to my displeasure that I'll be vindicated again.
I guess further time will tell.
But its not looking too well.
Wait which for which one of us >< Now I'm confused. I want to be wrong right? :p
On a more serious note, even if the results dont match if the games are good I'll take that as disproving my hypothesis.
On January 30 2012 11:26 Werx wrote: Oh man.. Idra's still got the mental fortitude of a child.
After poor results in foreign tournies over the last few months, he decides to go to Korea and try to compete with a much harder pro scene.
Well.. good luck with that, bro. I'm sure it'll work out..
Well he was gifted an S slot and has professional obligations. I think will ride it out until he's demoted to B which should be soon as he definitly doesnt have the heart of a champion to say the least.
On January 30 2012 11:50 Champi wrote: Has idra been trying mutalisk tech switches vs protoss? theyre pretty obnoxious as shown by last season of GSL code A
MaNa vs Zenio just 5 minutes ago. Zenio crushed MaNa with fake Hydra pressure into mutas. And to anyone who calls that "coinflippy", fake pressure into tech switch is a standard tactic by all the other races.
On January 30 2012 11:50 Champi wrote: Has idra been trying mutalisk tech switches vs protoss? theyre pretty obnoxious as shown by last season of GSL code A
MaNa vs Zenio just 5 minutes ago. Zenio crushed MaNa with fake Hydra pressure into mutas. And to anyone who calls that "coinflippy", fake pressure into tech switch is a standard tactic by all the other races.
I didn't see the Mana game, but it sounds like the same thing that beat Naniwa on Taldarim at Kiev.
IdrA has to be one of the most disappointing pros to actually like, and look forward to (atleast most of the time), except for Clide.
Almost every game I watch from him, hes GGing way too damn early, getting owned, playing illogically safe, idk man I find it really hard to support IdrA when he gives his fans nothing to go on. A lot of his statements lack confidence, and instead of saying what he needs to do, and work on, he talks about what Blizzard needs to do and work on.
His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
HuK... hes another story, but not one of the same. I'm looking forward to his games.
On January 30 2012 12:08 v3chr0 wrote: IdrA has to be one of the most disappointing pros to actually like, and look forward to (atleast most of the time), except for Clide.
Almost every game I watch from him, hes GGing way too damn early, getting owned, playing illogically safe, idk man I find it really hard to support IdrA when he gives his fans nothing to go on. A lot of his statements lack confidence, and instead of saying what he needs to do, and work on, he talks about what Blizzard needs to do and work on.
His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
HuK... hes another story, but not one of the same. I'm looking forward to his games.
i don't see the point in insulting progamers. he plays for a fucking living, of course he tries hard. you don't move to korea if you want to be lazy.
if he wins everyones gonna be like "OMG ITS THE NEW GRACK new mindset blah blah" and if he loses, people like you will come out again.
fan or not, insulting someone so blatantly is beyond disrespectful.
On January 30 2012 09:53 Antimatterz wrote: OK I'M fed up with the shit that IdrA gets from people. He is probably training the hardest out of every foreigner in the world atm, and he is saying that toss is hard to beat, something that pretty much EVERY SINGLE ZERG you ask will say too. That doesn't mean he is whining, that doesn't mean hes Bad, it just means that he doesn't think he will win because he doesn't understand ZvP. You might say "look at Stephano and CoCa, they have no problem with toss!". They are outliers. Are you Actually going to call IdrA a bitch because he has the same opinion as the vast majority but is Only more vocal?
I like the part where you display actual evidence to support your claims instead of just pulling shit out of your ass. /sarcasm End.
I didn't include NesTea because he had only played 3 ZvP's in the last 3 months
(Good) Zergs don't have any problem with Protoss. Deal with it.
But that actually doesn't mean very much. That's an extremely small sample, ZvP has changed a lot in 3 months, and a lot of these players were just better than their opponents. Maps have also changed quite a bit iirc. A lot of those records also aren't very good, considering. I only looked at a few, but Leenock and a few others had the worst win-rate in ZvP in the last 3 months, so it's at least their weakest match-up.
Not necessarily agreeing with you, just stating that your evidence means very little. I mean when you've played 10-15 games total changing the outcome of one or two games makes a huge difference in your record. There's really no way to prove it one way or the other with the tiny amount of data we have.
Please don't bring up that "sample size" bullshit. It's just a lame excuse for people who've never worked with statistical information throw out there. Yes ZvP has changed in that Zerg have started to win more than Protosses. Also a lot of these players went up against and won vs MC and Sage two guys known for their PvZ. Other win against opponents such as JYP and Oz, JYP a PvZ megamind and Oz a top 3 P. I just stated that Leenock have a 12-6(66,6%) win/loss record. I don't know what numbers you looked but that's clearly wrong or your just lying.
To be fair I absolutely hate, and have always hated ZvP. I hated it as a Protoss too. It is so timing based, and requires so completely different reactions according to what the opponent is doing... it just feels stupid even when you win, and I can see why someone with idra's hatred of everything random would hate it.
On January 30 2012 12:19 MilesTeg wrote: To be fair I absolutely hate, and have always hated ZvP. I hated it as a Protoss too. It is so timing based, and requires so completely different reactions according to what the opponent is doing... it just feels stupid even when you win, and I can see why someone with idra's hatred of everything random would hate it.
Modern ZvP isn't random or coinflippy. I can not think of one popular strat besides obvious cheese that requires a significant amount of luck for either side to win.
On January 30 2012 12:08 v3chr0 wrote: IdrA has to be one of the most disappointing pros to actually like, and look forward to (atleast most of the time), except for Clide.
Almost every game I watch from him, hes GGing way too damn early, getting owned, playing illogically safe, idk man I find it really hard to support IdrA when he gives his fans nothing to go on. A lot of his statements lack confidence, and instead of saying what he needs to do, and work on, he talks about what Blizzard needs to do and work on.
His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
HuK... hes another story, but not one of the same. I'm looking forward to his games.
i don't see the point in insulting progamers. he plays for a fucking living, of course he tries hard. you don't move to korea if you want to be lazy.
if he wins everyones gonna be like "OMG ITS THE NEW GRACK new mindset blah blah" and if he loses, people like you will come out again.
fan or not, insulting someone so blatantly is beyond disrespectful.
Wait, wait, wait. You're actually denouncing someone for being 'disrespectful' to Idra? Bahahahahahaha. Oh man, thanks for that.
It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
On January 30 2012 12:26 arfyron wrote: It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
I'm still not over his early gg versus MMA after MMA destroyed his own 4th CC with his siege tanks XD
On January 30 2012 12:26 arfyron wrote: It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
Although its the exception rather than the rule, there's definitely a few infamous high profile examples where he left too early and lost games he had 100% won.
On January 30 2012 12:26 arfyron wrote: It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
We actually do know more than Idra seeing the whole map and he doesnt. Like when MMA destoryed his CC or HuKs fake VRs we would not have left knowing. Anyway - point is he never plays it out till dead so many times he would not have lost.
On January 30 2012 12:08 v3chr0 wrote: IdrA has to be one of the most disappointing pros to actually like, and look forward to (atleast most of the time), except for Clide.
Almost every game I watch from him, hes GGing way too damn early, getting owned, playing illogically safe, idk man I find it really hard to support IdrA when he gives his fans nothing to go on. A lot of his statements lack confidence, and instead of saying what he needs to do, and work on, he talks about what Blizzard needs to do and work on.
His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
HuK... hes another story, but not one of the same. I'm looking forward to his games.
i don't see the point in insulting progamers. he plays for a fucking living, of course he tries hard. you don't move to korea if you want to be lazy.
if he wins everyones gonna be like "OMG ITS THE NEW GRACK new mindset blah blah" and if he loses, people like you will come out again.
fan or not, insulting someone so blatantly is beyond disrespectful.
Wow! Insulting IdrA? For one, I can have any opinion I like, and two, why are you so shocked? This is what IdrA does, how can there not be people disappointed at him for playing like an enraged 15 yr old some of the time... I am one of his fans who gives him the benefit of the doubt every game he plays. Then the few words he does say, are about balance. Please, give me a break, if you want your fans to support you, you have to earn it. I'm not calling IdrA an asshole, or a newb, I'm actually giving my honest opinion on his flaws - get over it.
On January 30 2012 12:26 arfyron wrote: It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
a lot of pros already said that he leaves games too early and there were two games were he was ahead and left the game. It's not idiotic to assume that.
Also it's never bad to stay in game, but it's bad to leave a game which you can win.
Sure everyone can point to those games (that were played a long time ago) endlessly and of course those were errors. However a tournament doesn't go by without people saying Idra left too early when 99% of the time it's not at all true. People don't understand how far they are in skill both mechanically (obviously) but also in game understanding from pro players. When Idra leaves games it's almost always because if played out he would eventually lose. I trust his judgement with only his vision over 99% of the SC community even if they can see the whole map.
I know the post isn't entirely related but it's frustrating that it seems like almost everyone thinks their opinion is correct and thus they must have some special insight into this game when they don't.
Also there's a reason you almost never hear pros talk about Idra's "BM" it's because he's actually a nice guy and because they don't care.
On January 30 2012 12:26 arfyron wrote: It's idiotic of anyone to assume that when Idra leaves the game it's too early (unless you're a pro obviously). He's better than all of us and knows much more. I don't understand what happened to make random people think they know what they are talking about.
a lot of pros already said that he leaves games too early and there were two games were he was ahead and left the game. It's not idiotic to assume that.
Also it's never bad to stay in game, but it's bad to leave a game which you can win.
It isn't "never" bad to leave a game when you think you are more behind than you are. Stamina, regain focus, calm down are factors too. I agree that he could stay in some games longer, but I think many players have left games early. Can you say you've never left a game without playing it out until he literally killed every structure? I think not.
In the the most recent tournament, Zerg lost three games to protoss out of eleven. Idra was just making a hyperbolic statement, which I don't think should be surprising to anyone
On January 30 2012 12:08 v3chr0 wrote: His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
In the fighting game community, there is a term called a "scrub", a player who plays by imaginary rulesets constructed in his mind for the purpose of refusing to deal with the actual game rules. IdrA is the greatest scrub in the history of competitive StarCraft.
On January 30 2012 12:53 confusedcrib wrote: In the the most recent tournament, Zerg lost three games to protoss out of eleven. Idra was just making a hyperbolic statement, which I don't think should be surprising to anyone
I think Idra is talking about the Korean scene, which has seen a huge resurgence in Protosses lately. But yes, blunt exaggeration is his thing.
On January 30 2012 12:42 arfyron wrote: Sure everyone can point to those games (that were played a long time ago) endlessly and of course those were errors. However a tournament doesn't go by without people saying Idra left too early when 99% of the time it's not at all true. People don't understand how far they are in skill both mechanically (obviously) but also in game understanding from pro players. When Idra leaves games it's almost always because if played out he would eventually lose. I trust his judgement with only his vision over 99% of the SC community even if they can see the whole map.
I know the post isn't entirely related but it's frustrating that it seems like almost everyone thinks their opinion is correct and thus they must have some special insight into this game when they don't.
Also there's a reason you almost never hear pros talk about Idra's "BM" it's because he's actually a nice guy and because they don't care.
I play sports competitively and I play each game until the very last second expires. That is the kind of mindset I have when playing, so of course I am disappointed whenever a progamer (whoever it may be) leaves when there is still a small chance of winning.
Nobody is calling Idra a loser or a bad player or lacking in understanding of the game because he ggs early. But the truest champions and winners don't quit when there's still a little hope, because they want to win every single game no matter how far behind they are. Would you expect great champions like Jordan or Pele or [insert best.player.ever? here] to give up because of a deficit, especially in a playoff game? You can make the same argument for people like BoxeR or Fantasy or even MVP. You don't become a champion only being the most skilled or talented; a proper attitude is required. And yes, I am saying Idra doesn't have that right now.
Idra is an amazing player, but he needs that heart of a champion to truly succeed.
IdrA cries imbalance, explosion of nerd hate occurs. Nestea says the same thing, nobody gives a fck. Just the way ppl are perceived I guess, haters gonna hate.
On January 30 2012 13:02 TAMinator wrote: IdrA cries imbalance, explosion of nerd hate occurs. Nestea says the same thing, nobody gives a fck. Just the way ppl are perceived I guess, haters gonna hate.
It's because Nestea is 31 (?) and a frickin' GIANT so everyone is afraid of him :p
On January 30 2012 13:02 TAMinator wrote: IdrA cries imbalance, explosion of nerd hate occurs. Nestea says the same thing, nobody gives a fck. Just the way ppl are perceived I guess, haters gonna hate.
If somebody wants to raise their concerns about the state of the game that's absolutely fine, it's just Idra has been saying the EXACT same thing for 2 years now regardless of what stats and shifts in the game suggest.
On January 30 2012 12:08 v3chr0 wrote: His mindset is flawed, he WANTS to be the best, yet he doesn't seem to TRY to be the best. Spend less time worrying about stuff you cannot change, and more on what you can change. IdrA makes NA look bad - hardly any other pro has his outlook on the game, Koreans never leave the damn game, and sometimes end up winning. Uhg, he gets me annoyed sometimes, NA needs more good players and IdrA is slipping again.
In the fighting game community, there is a term called a "scrub", a player who plays by imaginary rulesets constructed in his mind for the purpose of refusing to deal with the actual game rules. IdrA is the greatest scrub in the history of competitive StarCraft.
Getting pretty sick of Idra to be honest, this stuff was entertaining a year ago but now that he is actually in a serious venue it's becoming apparent he is still the same whiney, crybaby. Expected better to be honest, thought he might have learnt his lesson. I guess people never change.
to say that zerg doesn't beat protoss right now is just idras way of mentally checking out. excuses make it easier to cope with if he doesn't win, and make him a god in his own eyes if he does.
Idra's Response made me laugh; I don't think it's whining, just the blunt comment made me laugh pretty hard. Idra is funny to me, even if he doesn't try.
Some gamers are bad at a matchup and state, "My ZvP has been really weak lately. I will improve on that. I hope the fans (blah blah blah)."
Idra's take is to blame external forces. Maps, balance, players, but seems to not have (publicly) a severe interest in self-criticism.
I think when you have players like idra that are extremely hyped and equally unaccomplished, you lose credibility over time over the same song and dance.
But that's the problem when you have a game that is CONSTANTLY patching, balancing, and fuck, is about to release an expansion pack that will redefine strategies and races to a large degree, you don't know the objective validity of these complaints. The issue is that SC2 eSports boomed beyond the bounds of the means to adapt. The should have let the game settle and then began their slew of ridiculously superfluous tournaments.
You think players are whining now? Wait till HotS is released. It's gonna be a fucking mess.
On January 30 2012 13:02 TAMinator wrote: IdrA cries imbalance, explosion of nerd hate occurs. Nestea says the same thing, nobody gives a fck. Just the way ppl are perceived I guess, haters gonna hate.
If somebody wants to raise their concerns about the state of the game that's absolutely fine, it's just Idra has been saying the EXACT same thing for 2 years now regardless of what stats and shifts in the game suggest.
A lot longer than two years.
If anyone talks about balance in a constructive way, nobody's gonna hate on them.
On January 30 2012 13:02 TAMinator wrote: IdrA cries imbalance, explosion of nerd hate occurs. Nestea says the same thing, nobody gives a fck. Just the way ppl are perceived I guess, haters gonna hate.
If somebody wants to raise their concerns about the state of the game that's absolutely fine, it's just Idra has been saying the EXACT same thing for 2 years now regardless of what stats and shifts in the game suggest.
A lot longer than two years.
If anyone talks about balance in a constructive way, nobody's gonna hate on them.
I was just talking about his SC2 renditions. ^___^
its funny when idra says how Z can't beat P then the GSL champ or the top players end up having very strong zvp... or whatever matchup he is complaining about at the time. good players dont need excuses, he should just change his playstyle to accommodate for the match-up, after all this is a 'strategy game' is it not?
Yes -- Idra is an immature player who lacks perspective. No -- this hasn't changed in the past five years. But you can learn a lot from him, so think about what he says. If he's having trouble with PvZ, examine his style, compare it to those who are sucessful, and learn about the matchup.
My take: He's never willing to build to spinecrawlers, mass infestors, and build up an Infested Lord army. When trying to play a long game, he always looks for openings for attack, and takes too many risks. On the other hand, when he's trying to play aggressively, he doesn't effectively utilize roach ling pushes to deny thirds. Add a fourth base, get infestors behind, but stage an attack at about 12-14 mintues with 160-180 supply with infestors and upgrades behind it. Also, he doesn't understand how control Mutalisks in PvZ, as opposed to TvZ. Now, I haven't seen him play since the holiday, so hopefully he's started to do the above better since then, but until he plays those styles and loses, I'll ignore him.
It's always interesting to hear people talking about how this is "the final straw." Every veteran member on this site has said you can't listen to Idra discuss balance. Did you think they were some part of massive anti-Idra conspiracy?
I will never understand how every time Idra makes a comment like this there will still be the people that - get mad and BM idra (I saw idr-bitch on page 6 or so.. wow that's cool...) - say, "he always does this wtf so annoying getting old needs to stop whining" - analyse his mental state. ex. "his way of mentally checking out" "he just hides his insecurities or weakness as a player"
honestly.. people need to just stop leaving such hateful and unsupportive shit on TL threads. Can't we just celebrate the fact that these 2 great foreign players are in Code A and wish them the best while thanking the OP for posting these interviews?
EG as an organization is a promoting genius. They post interviews of Huk and Idra before playing their Code A matches, and suddenly there are 23 pages of ongoing discussing. Meanwhile, the Slayers MMA interview after Slayers beats FXO in the GSTL flies largely under the radar.
Is it possible that Idra is just saying these things as a calculated move to generate discussion and attention for himself and his team. If so, it has worked grandly.
On January 30 2012 13:34 Bagration wrote: EG as an organization is a promoting genius. They post interviews of Huk and Idra before playing their Code A matches, and suddenly there are 23 pages of ongoing discussing. Meanwhile, the Slayers MMA interview after Slayers beats FXO in the GSTL flies largely under the radar.
Is it possible that Idra is just saying these things as a calculated move to generate discussion and attention for himself and his team. If so, it has worked grandly.
no, I think he is actually just very genuine and that's why people like him.
On January 30 2012 13:37 xlava wrote: Standard Idra tbh...
But this time I think he's right, I'm not sure how Zerg is supposed to beat deathball + mothership Protoss in the super late game.
Split the zerg deathball so vortex is less effective. Or make a bit more corruptors and snipe the mothership even if it means that a lot of them will die, since without the MS the zerg deathball usually beats the protoss deathball.
Edit: That said, the archon toilet does need to be nerfed (again).
On January 30 2012 13:34 Bagration wrote: EG as an organization is a promoting genius. They post interviews of Huk and Idra before playing their Code A matches, and suddenly there are 23 pages of ongoing discussing. Meanwhile, the Slayers MMA interview after Slayers beats FXO in the GSTL flies largely under the radar.
Is it possible that Idra is just saying these things as a calculated move to generate discussion and attention for himself and his team. If so, it has worked grandly.
no, I think he is actually just very genuine and that's why people like him.
I guess.. but when you're a professional, I'd think you should act more manner.
Also, I'm not 100% convinced that this is genuine. He was BMing Huk for the longest time until he joined EG, then he starts acting nice to him.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V1ds2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XII8Mh.png)
. He shoots himself in the foot with a mentality like that.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u52mB.jpg)
