On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 05:34 Klonere wrote: Wow so people would have their hero's play LoL over SC2?
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
At least say you'd like them to play DoTA2 (which I love playing and watching). LoL is worse than SC2 in terms of removing competitive, skill based design elements from the game it is based on.
On January 25 2012 04:20 SolidMustard wrote: Just read through the thread, and I'm really amazed by two things.
1. Denial. It's not a secret to anyone now that the BW teams are going to switch at some point, but it looks like 90% people having posted here are in total denial.
2. Hate towards SC2 (which explains the denial). I don't get it, everytime there is a thread related to both BW and SC2, there is a huge hate from the BW people towards SC2. I personnally like both games, and even if SC2 is obviously not as mechanically hard to play, I like watching it. Even if some people don't like it, they can just respect it, and stop the ridiculous elitism.
What is no secret is that KeSPA is going to expand to SC2. Expanding to SC2, however, does not mean killing BW in the process, which is what SC2 people coming to BW forums like to talk about.
You are the one with the destructive mentality that for one to succeed the other has to fail. We just think that SC2 is not good enough. Thinking that it will eventually be good enough is no guarantee that it will be. Putting your future on something that has yet to mature is a recipe for disaster.
Regardless of how vocal is the dislike of SC2s current state, its success or failure is not relevant to our enjoyment of BW. Compare that to "I can't wait for Flash to switch".
I also can enjoy SC2 streams. I just take it with the point of view that its on a loosely related scene, but separate, from BW.
On January 25 2012 04:04 FatkiddsLag wrote: Eventually bw will dwindle away and sc2 will take over. In my opinion the sooner the better, but its going to happen. The best thing to do is not be so resistant and help support the scene.
What scene? eSports or SC2? eSports is more than SC2. How is BW exclusive to "support the scene"?
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 05:34 Klonere wrote: Wow so people would have their hero's play LoL over SC2?
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
At least say you'd like them to play DoTA2 (which I love playing and watching). LoL is worse than SC2 in terms of removing competitive, skill based design elements from the game it is based on.
I really don't like LoL D:
Your loss. If they end up playing something other than BW, I'd at least like them to make a lot of money while doing it, and LoL seems to be really booming these days. I wouldn't mind DOTA 2 either, as long as it's not as flavour of the month.
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
I'd rather see them play HoN and spam taunts and macros on every kill. Flash's could be six glowing gold medals.
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
It is depressing because TBLS would without any doubt revolutionize SC2 gameplay and set a whole new standard in mechanics + micro. LoL is fun to play, but i doubt they would revolutionize anything because of the way the game is built up. If they can't stay in BW (which would be the optimum obviously), they should at least stick with competitive RTS in my eyes.
LoL has alot of things to talk about at the beginning of the game. Like what champions were picked, their abilities, group composition, bans, strats and a bunch more things during the game as well. And the casters for LoL are very knowledgable about the game and always have something to say.
Casters in Starcraft 2 dont really know anything at all because theyre all copper leaguers and thats why they are always twiddling their thumbs trying to come up with things to talk about that arent even relevant to what youre watching. Its stupid
On January 25 2012 05:51 1sz2sz3sz wrote: Casters in Starcraft 2 dont really know anything at all because theyre all copper leaguers and thats why they are always twiddling their thumbs trying to come up with things to talk about that arent even relevant to what youre watching. Its stupid
Artosis/Day9/Apollo are all Masters. Of course there are "bad" casters, but don't tell me that LoL doesn't have those, too.
I dunno I find it slightly hypocritical of people to be like "Yeah I'd watch LoL over SC2". I know its a lot to do with personal preference but LoL really is a ton worse than SC2 in terms of dumbing down the game in order to cater to casuals, it has enraged the hardcore crowd of the legacy game (DoTA) maybe even more than SC2 has enraged some people here. If you are criticizing games for bad design choices, poor units, being boring etc, saying "Yeah SC2 is fucking broken as shit, LoL NOW there is a well-designed competitive game!" is a borderline comical statement.
EDIT: I am personally quite depressed at the decline of BW in Korea. It is something totally unique and I kind of emphasize with the MilIks stance that BW was the only true ESPORT in that it truly became part of a nations culture and attracted many people who may not have played it, supported an industry that brought us revolutionary production values, a year-long sponsored team-league that was truly like a real sports league like the English Premier League in soccer or the American and National Leagues in baseball. I don't think SC2 is the answer in any shape or form, it is simply not popular enough in Korea and I will concede, while it is a fine competitive game, it is still quite flawed (mainly with regards to the Protoss race).
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
It is depressing because TBLS would without any doubt revolutionize SC2 gameplay and set a whole new standard in mechanics + micro.
I'll never understand this assumption.
Anyway, seems like it has turned into the usual sc2 vs bw, with the same circle arguments invented more to counter the other camp opinion than to be reasonnable. As for the transition, it's going to happen, I've "known" (I don't have any insider info, which seems to be the way korean esport, and even esport as a whole work, sad as hell... anyway. It's just an educated guess let's say) that for a month or so, and I've been sad as hell. The only thing that can help bw are the problem that would be caused by a fusion of the two scenes. I therefore hope for more Kespa/Gom/blizzad's stupidity, but alas, that might have already been solved
But anyway, I'll take every bit of pro bw left, I hope we'll have at least one last OSL, and then, well please people won't forget the foreign scene, and witth a little bit of luck, it will eventually merge with what will remain korean one.
As for those pro future, well, I like them, they're fine people and I wish them the best, probably will check them out sometimes when I'm bored, which I already do for some sc2 people. But honestly, the future of competitive gaming is probably more LoL than SC2, and anyway it looks pretty bleak in korea. I find both game pretty terible actually, so yeah...
What hate lol? What is sc2 to deserve hate. IMHO it's too much when you say we "hate" it. Me, personally, I have attitude of not giving a f%^&.
Hate towards company that made some... ugh... suboptimal actions towards SC scene in Korea (as I see some of you have short memory)? Perfectly justified. This company, btw, didn't make and release SC:BW, it only released SC2, I'm talking about Actitvision.
If you ask personally me, I'd watch SC:BW scene for like ever. And when I stopped, I would already have children and they would watch it (so the viewer rate of it wouldn't decrease lol). I don't need sc2, in my opinion it doesn't deserve attention.
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
It is depressing because TBLS would without any doubt revolutionize SC2 gameplay and set a whole new standard in mechanics + micro. LoL is fun to play, but i doubt they would revolutionize anything because of the way the game is built up. If they can't stay in BW (which would be the optimum obviously), they should at least stick with competitive RTS in my eyes.
I was writing a long reply to you, but halfway through I realized how off-topic I am getting. Suffice to say - I believe you use the word "revolutionize" too readily, and I believe fans are allowed to be entitled to wanting their favorite players do well financially as well as seeing the players play what the fans play themselves, if they so desire. LoL has changed a lot, it has gained entire new gamemodes, and ganktimings have been made more volatile. It's nowhere near being played optimal. Maybe TBLS is just what LoL needs to be the next big E-sport? SC2 has it's own publicity and superstars, and a lot of WC3 and BW to draw inspiration from. MOBA-s are entirely uncharted territory, and I believe that the genre still has a long way to go. And for Klonere, yes, same applies to DOTA2.
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 05:34 Klonere wrote: Wow so people would have their hero's play LoL over SC2?
I really don't understand how wanting someone to play a game I like over a game I find boring is depressing.
That would be a total waste of their RTS talents.
Maybe. I would like to see them BW over anything else. Still, if they have to go, they are wasting part of their talent anyways, so why not use part of their gamesense in what would help them remain Korean superstars?
On January 25 2012 00:56 Acer1791 wrote: cant believe why so many people like lol more than sc2.. sc2 is much more competitive than lol. its clear to say bw>sc2>lol
Even us Broodwar fans can agree with this.
OGN airing a LoL tournament is killing e-sports.
Not all of us, I find LoL more fun to watch than SC2
So do I. Furthermore, I'd rather like to see JD, Flash, Bisu and Stork play LoL if they retire from playing BW. They could call themselves TBLS + 1 and own the entire LoL scene in days within switching.
On January 25 2012 05:51 1sz2sz3sz wrote: Casters in Starcraft 2 dont really know anything at all because theyre all copper leaguers and thats why they are always twiddling their thumbs trying to come up with things to talk about that arent even relevant to what youre watching. Its stupid
Artosis/Day9/Apollo are all Masters. Of course there are "bad" casters, but don't tell me that LoL doesn't have those, too.
I'm pretty sure Sayle, Nukethestars, Cholera, etc aren't playing BW at anything close to a pro level, and they're still good casters.
On January 25 2012 04:04 FatkiddsLag wrote: Eventually bw will dwindle away and sc2 will take over. In my opinion the sooner the better, but its going to happen. The best thing to do is not be so resistant and help support the scene.
This post is easy to be laughed at and really so is most of this thread, but I am compelled to tell you at least this: Most BW fans do not really care about the overall ESPORTS scene. We will maybe watch one or two videos a random other game, but it won't capture us and we certainly wouldn't watch it if we didn't watch BW. We like BW, that's what we watch, and if it's gone it's not like "oh well, SC2 is the next best thing I guess I'll watch that" it's more like "well, guess I'll remember BW and move on with my life." For lots of people the step down is too large. It is just not fun to watch other ESPORTS. I don't think the other games are going to receive any kind of surge of BW immigrants (lol) if BW died.
However, there's other things that annoy me about the idea of 'dwindling.' There seems to be a belief that things will be constant, either continually rising or continually falling. That isn't really how things work. Charts go up and down. Waves rise and taper. Good things can still happen for BW
BW has the image of a classic game right now. That's a pretty sustainable, maintainable image. Niche or not (BW was always niche), I think the scene can survive and will continue to be played at an extremely high level. I don't need everyone and my grandma to play BW, that is not my vision of ultimate success. In the same way that a novel can sell all over the world and not really be literature, BW can not be measured by monetary investment alone. If the scene in BW has trimmed some fat, the people who are only doing what is extremely popular at the moment, that doesn't mean the meat will be cut as easily. Not everyone likes Chess or Go, but Chess and Go survive because of a certain personality type that is drawn toward them and because they are deeply rooted in culture. I think it's possible for BW to become similar, at least to Koreans.
So there is nothing to do with any resistance or stubbornness. SC2 just does not offer quality content and I'm not a big enough nerd to like it just because it's a video game. I don't support things just because they're vaguely related to my interests. "Support ESPORTS" is a marketing gimmick. You should seriously just watch things you like and let whatever happens happen. Don't turn into one of those freaks that leaves 10 streams on at a time just so they will make money from ads (even tho they're not watching them lol).
On another topic: if JulyZerg and Nada and Boxer couldn't make SC2 interesting, I'm not so fond of the idea that any current top BW pros could. I think that's just kind of SC2 players hoping something will legitimize their game, but even if Grand Masters started playing Checkers that wouldn't make Checkers as interesting as Chess lol.
According to this guy, LOL is going to be in Proleague. Starts at 9:10 I don't know how legitimate this guy is since i don't follow LOL though, just saw it while browsing Reddit. If it's true though it could explain the PC upgrades, etc.
Are you saying BW pros could start practising LoL ? Can you imagine jaedong playing LoL? I don't, jesus, that would be like THE worst thing on the world.
Adding LOL to proleague doesnt mean BW players switch over -.- BW players don't play Special Forces.
On January 25 2012 05:51 1sz2sz3sz wrote: I actually find LoL more fun to watch than SC2.
LoL has alot of things to talk about at the beginning of the game. Like what champions were picked, their abilities, group composition, bans, strats and a bunch more things during the game as well. And the casters for LoL are very knowledgable about the game and always have something to say.
Casters in Starcraft 2 dont really know anything at all because theyre all copper leaguers and thats why they are always twiddling their thumbs trying to come up with things to talk about that arent even relevant to what youre watching. Its stupid
Okey, i would suggest this thread is getting overrun by trolls and worse
EPT
