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Canada13400 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:51 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 04:04 FatkiddsLag wrote:
Eventually bw will dwindle away and sc2 will take over. In my opinion the sooner the better, but its going to happen. The best thing to do is not be so resistant and help support the scene. This post is easy to be laughed at and really so is most of this thread, but I am compelled to tell you at least this: Most BW fans do not really care about the overall ESPORTS scene. We will maybe watch one or two videos a random other game, but it won't capture us and we certainly wouldn't watch it if we didn't watch BW. We like BW, that's what we watch, and if it's gone it's not like "oh well, SC2 is the next best thing I guess I'll watch that" it's more like "well, guess I'll remember BW and move on with my life." For lots of people the step down is too large. It is just not fun to watch other ESPORTS. I don't think the other games are going to receive any kind of surge of BW immigrants (lol) if BW died. However, there's other things that annoy me about the idea of 'dwindling.' There seems to be a belief that things will be constant, either continually rising or continually falling. That isn't really how things work. Charts go up and down. Waves rise and taper. Good things can still happen for BW  BW has the image of a classic game right now. That's a pretty sustainable, maintainable image. Niche or not (BW was always niche), I think the scene can survive and will continue to be played at an extremely high level. I don't need everyone and my grandma to play BW, that is not my vision of ultimate success. In the same way that a novel can sell all over the world and not really be literature, BW can not be measured by monetary investment alone. If the scene in BW has trimmed some fat, the people who are only doing what is extremely popular at the moment, that doesn't mean the meat will be cut as easily. Not everyone likes Chess or Go, but Chess and Go survive because of a certain personality type that is drawn toward them and because they are deeply rooted in culture. I think it's possible for BW to become similar, at least to Koreans. So there is nothing to do with any resistance or stubbornness. SC2 just does not offer quality content and I'm not a big enough nerd to like it just because it's a video game. I don't support things just because they're vaguely related to my interests. "Support ESPORTS" is a marketing gimmick. You should seriously just watch things you like and let whatever happens happen. Don't turn into one of those freaks that leaves 10 streams on at a time just so they will make money from ads (even tho they're not watching them lol). On another topic: if JulyZerg and Nada and Boxer couldn't make SC2 interesting, I'm not so fond of the idea that any current top BW pros could. I think that's just kind of SC2 players hoping something will legitimize their game, but even if Grand Masters started playing Checkers that wouldn't make Checkers as interesting as Chess lol.
While I agree with most of your post (I like SC2 and I like BW but i don't like other "esport" games in terms of viewing them in tournaments), I really dislike the negative tone you have towards SC2. This is one of the things that always bothers me about some of the people who only enjoy BW. SC2 fans don't need anyone to "legitimize" the game. It is legitimate. We SC2 fans enjoy it, you don't thats fine. But no need to compare it to checkers with regards to simplicity or acting as though the SC2 scene needs BW pros to legitimize it.
I also agree the whole support esports thing is a bit of a marketing gimmick, I will support the games I like and enjoy watching competitively and I won't support the ones I dislike. However, I think its important to note that choosing not to support a game directly is different from denigrating the games (and fans thereof) which you do not enjoy.
I have no feelings one way or another with regards to BW teams entering SC2. Im sure there will be good things and bad things for both scenes to come out of it. What I do dislike is the negative attitude people need to have with regards to one game and one scene over another. I'm totally fine enjoying both games but I watch more and understand SC2 better as well as play the game. Granted I prefer SC2 myself since I know the game more but I don't feel it is right to talk down to the BW people.
Furthermore, sometimes I feel like if I was to speak negatively of BW I would be more likely to face punishment on the site over others because I don't have the same tenure and time spent on tl. Which is fine for the odd slip up here and there but when its a pervasive attitude it does bother me greatly (this isn't aimed at you Chef, its at others that I don't want to point out specifically).
My 2 cents, take them for what they are.
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On January 24 2012 07:48 ShadeR wrote:Cool i suppose. + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:33 Woony wrote:On January 24 2012 07:30 HaruHaru wrote:
As long my precious BW players stay in the BW scene and there continues to be Proleague and Individual leagues, I am happy At this point It's pretty much an open secret that every BW team is training SC2 right now. However it will probably be the 'lesser' players that switch over right from the start. lol... is this really what people in SC2 forums think?
I love how BW diehards think every SC2 player of any level is an idiot and has no idea what they are talking about.
SC2 will take over BW, whether it's a months time or 3 years time, BW will die, SC2 will have balanced out. and SC2 will be superior. Remember it's still young, and BW was in a worse state of balance and bugs when it became popular, and took years to balance.
Get used to the idea that a soon 15 year old game won't be played as much as it is now.
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What I don't see right here is people HATING GAMES
man i hate to work but I love dota 2, lol, sc2 and bw.
In fact i would rather make money playing even hon than working xD
games arent to be hated lol ....
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Welp this thread has gone to shit, the sc2 kids are leaking in...mods should close.....
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On January 25 2012 04:16 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 04:14 fabiano wrote:
SC2 wont have my support until they make it at least as 90% as good as BW, which might mean never. SC2 now is about where SC1 was 2-3 years after release. Gotta be patient, G.
These types of logic are really stupid.
BW didn't have good replays, stable scene, perfect understanding of what macro, micro, eco, harass, build orders, decent maps, decent players and willing corporations to fund the scene back when BW was a year old. These factors I mentioned translate to SC2 pretty well and I fail to see why this is a problem.
People using this type of logic either think that the competition in SC2 has thus far has been farce or the game design is really flawed that the scene can only start developing when they have actual good players to develop certain 'ideas' to incorporate in the game.
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Would not be good for the growth of SC2 if you put it side by side with BW....
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On January 25 2012 07:15 Megaliskuu wrote:
Welp this thread has gone to shit, the sc2 kids are leaking in...mods should close.....
The exact thing I'm talking about. Patronize more, we'll still accept you when BW dies.
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On January 25 2012 07:15 Megaliskuu wrote:
Welp this thread has gone to shit, the sc2 kids are leaking in...mods should close.....
To be fair, I went to the pain of making nice, long, thought-out posts, nobody cared about, but of course you would answer to the few sc2 fanboys posts and start the shit-war instead of not biting the trollbait. The fault lies within both sides.
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On January 25 2012 07:13 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:48 ShadeR wrote:Cool i suppose. + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2012 07:33 Woony wrote:On January 24 2012 07:30 HaruHaru wrote:
As long my precious BW players stay in the BW scene and there continues to be Proleague and Individual leagues, I am happy At this point It's pretty much an open secret that every BW team is training SC2 right now. However it will probably be the 'lesser' players that switch over right from the start. lol... is this really what people in SC2 forums think? I love how BW diehards think every SC2 player of any level is an idiot and has no idea what they are talking about. SC2 will take over BW, whether it's a months time or 3 years time, BW will die, SC2 will have balanced out. and SC2 will be superior. Remember it's still young, and BW was in a worse state of balance and bugs when it became popular, and took years to balance. Get used to the idea that a soon 15 year old game won't be played as much as it is now.
What is wrong with you people? BW is not going to "die" and its not going to be "replaced" by SC2 or any other game. Thats like saying that Blues will die and will be replaced by Rock. No. Blues will still exist and Rock will still exist, and maybe there won't be any 24/7 Blues radio, but it doesn't just disappear.
Honestly there is this really fucked up idea that SC2 is a replacement for BW. No. Actually it is a different game. I wish that Blizzard had just named it "Spacecraft" or some shit so we didn't have to have this mentality that these games are mutually exclusive and that everyone who feels this way about one game has to feel that way about the other.
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On January 25 2012 07:15 Megaliskuu wrote:
Welp this thread has gone to shit, the sc2 kids are leaking in...mods should close.....
100% agree. It'd be great if we could just keep SC2 talk outside of the of BW forum and vice versa.
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On January 25 2012 07:13 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:48 ShadeR wrote:Cool i suppose. + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2012 07:33 Woony wrote:On January 24 2012 07:30 HaruHaru wrote:
As long my precious BW players stay in the BW scene and there continues to be Proleague and Individual leagues, I am happy At this point It's pretty much an open secret that every BW team is training SC2 right now. However it will probably be the 'lesser' players that switch over right from the start. lol... is this really what people in SC2 forums think? I love how BW diehards think every SC2 player of any level is an idiot and has no idea what they are talking about. SC2 will take over BW, whether it's a months time or 3 years time, BW will die, SC2 will have balanced out. and SC2 will be superior. Remember it's still young, and BW was in a worse state of balance and bugs when it became popular, and took years to balance. Get used to the idea that a soon 15 year old game won't be played as much as it is now.
Get used to the Korean scene. SC2 didn't even have a good kick start, and the scene is shit compared to BW. Remember that in foreign scene BW was never as big as SC2 in the past and it already has taken over. Unless something happens pretty soon, SC2 will become another small game in Korea that didn't get much coverage.
And don't even bring in how 'young' it is. BW tournaments started off from a ping pong table covered in cloth, with two monitor-pc hybrids in a closed set. That's after some offline scene developed in Korea, with many offline PC Bang tournaments. With SC2, they thought that people will naturally transition over. As soon as the game got released, they started shoving it down everyone's throat.
Most people threw up.
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On January 25 2012 07:15 Megaliskuu wrote:
Welp this thread has gone to shit, the sc2 kids are leaking in...mods should close.....
Well, that's what happens if you react to troll posts. And not all SC2 people that posted here brought negative context, so stop generalizing please. It isn't like you can wage a war if the other side doesn't react.
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On January 24 2012 07:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
3. Zergbong, the current best zerg in SC2
Huh? Who made this claim? If there is a "current best" then it would be Nestea. Zergbong isn't even a second (Losira/Leanock/Dongraegu are).
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On January 25 2012 07:24 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
3. Zergbong, the current best zerg in SC2
Huh? Who made this claim? If there is a "current best" then it would be Nestea. Zergbong isn't even a second (Losira/Leanock/Dongraegu are).
Btw how high does one get when they smoke up sum zerg?
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Well, as long as Brood War is played on a high level I will be watching.
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On January 25 2012 07:21 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 07:13 Nightshade_ wrote:On January 24 2012 07:48 ShadeR wrote:Cool i suppose. + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2012 07:33 Woony wrote:On January 24 2012 07:30 HaruHaru wrote:
As long my precious BW players stay in the BW scene and there continues to be Proleague and Individual leagues, I am happy At this point It's pretty much an open secret that every BW team is training SC2 right now. However it will probably be the 'lesser' players that switch over right from the start. lol... is this really what people in SC2 forums think? I love how BW diehards think every SC2 player of any level is an idiot and has no idea what they are talking about. SC2 will take over BW, whether it's a months time or 3 years time, BW will die, SC2 will have balanced out. and SC2 will be superior. Remember it's still young, and BW was in a worse state of balance and bugs when it became popular, and took years to balance. Get used to the idea that a soon 15 year old game won't be played as much as it is now. What is wrong with you people? BW is not going to "die" and its not going to be "replaced" by SC2 or any other game. Thats like saying that Blues will die and will be replaced by Rock. No. Blues will still exist and Rock will still exist, and maybe there won't be any 24/7 Blues radio, but it doesn't just disappear. Honestly there is this really fucked up idea that SC2 is a replacement for BW. No. Actually it is a different game. I wish that Blizzard had just named it "Spacecraft" or some shit so we didn't have to have this mentality that these games are mutually exclusive and that everyone who feels this way about one game has to feel that way about the other.
Let me rephrase, I used "die" loosely.
While there will still be BW fans and players, the SC2 scene will grow much faster as it has a much larger fanbase, and those fans bring in friends and family, expanding it even faster. There are much fewer additions to the BW scene, I dabble in it myself starting recently, but I do not follow it, because as a SC2 player it is easier to relate to. WHat I mean by "die" is not that there will never be competitions ever again, I meant it will be drowned out compared to SC2 in the next few years when the scene has gotten larger.
And yes, BW and SC2 is like comparing apples and oranges.\
Edit: point of this is, BW pros, down the road, may switch to SC2 if the prize pools have gotten larger, more sponsors for SC2 teams, etc.
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On January 25 2012 07:24 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
3. Zergbong, the current best zerg in SC2
Huh? Who made this claim? If there is a "current best" then it would be Nestea. Zergbong isn't even a second (Losira/Leanock/Dongraegu are).
you made me spill coffee on myself
zergbong is nestea
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So much hate in this thread. And almost no content is on topic, including this.
EDIT:
The bw/sc2-discussion is getting really really old. I sincerely hope that BW wont die, and i dont even see it as a possibility. And thats regardless of the players skills, which game is better or who is the current #1 zerg in the world.
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On January 25 2012 07:24 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
3. Zergbong, the current best zerg in SC2
Huh? Who made this claim? If there is a "current best" then it would be Nestea. Zergbong isn't even a second (Losira/Leanock/Dongraegu are).
haha zergbong == nestea
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On January 25 2012 07:24 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
3. Zergbong, the current best zerg in SC2
Huh? Who made this claim? If there is a "current best" then it would be Nestea. Zergbong isn't even a second (Losira/Leanock/Dongraegu are).
Either a very good troll or the most retarded post I have ever seen........
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EPT
