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Yeah I don't see how this changes the story. Everything you had to "clarify" couldn't have ever be proven anyway and sounded more like opinion/speculation to begin with, and as smart listeners, we should have taken them as such. I guess we live in a world where you have to state the obvious. Given the original and revised stories, Lee still looks like a hypocritical asshole.
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On January 20 2012 22:10 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:58 Ilvy wrote:On January 20 2012 21:39 jellyjello wrote:On January 20 2012 21:35 Ilvy wrote:On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote:
What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth. Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines. Rekrul wrote it a s private person and not in name of Teamliquid, so it is not journalism since it was not a official news. You don't get it, do you? TL is not an official news organization no matter who posts it. It's just a place where SC2 lovers can get together over internet. Just because someone "private" posted something doesn't make it an absolute truth.
Oh and why do you think Le goes bogus when it is just a random forum where private ppl post if there is now truth in it? ^^
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This is why people were upset when the original thread was snotty, offensive, and anybody who raised concerns got bashed for challenging what you said.
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On January 20 2012 22:32 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote:
Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad... Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
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the main points still hold true. lee is a hypocrite and whiner.
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On January 20 2012 22:24 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote:
I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay... Then maybe you should have contributed to this site for 6+ years bringing insider info from korea christ, some people.
I hope everyone doesn't think like that.There is a difference between good information and hearsay. I hope you don't become a reporter.
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On January 20 2012 22:35 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 22:32 zeru wrote:On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote:
Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad... Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created. I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
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On January 20 2012 21:36 RolleMcKnolle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else. Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all.
The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted.
For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
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Thanks for the additional info Rekrul.
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On January 20 2012 22:39 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 22:35 Beef Noodles wrote:On January 20 2012 22:32 zeru wrote:On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote:
Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad... Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created. I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie... You can call exaggerating whatever you want, but it's a type of lying, it's a false statement.
Oh yeah, let's get into a philosophical debate about THE TRUTH. Inaccurate statements = lies = person is a liar etc.
So is everyone else since it has been shown that the average person lies about 200 times a day.
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This doesnt change a damn thing. Coach lee is still a scum bag who is now trying to martyr himself
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On January 20 2012 22:39 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:36 RolleMcKnolle wrote:On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else. Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol... The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
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I fucking CALLED this. As expected, everybody would grab their pitchforks instead of waiting for a full story from all sides.
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On January 20 2012 21:50 turamn wrote:
So what Rekrul meant to say was, Sorry I was really really drunk and said some stuff I didn't mean...can I take it back? Cool...thanks!
Really? Seems to me that the story is the same, just some of the details are not true. The overall story is the exact same as before though.
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On January 20 2012 22:43 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 22:39 Monsen wrote:On January 20 2012 21:36 RolleMcKnolle wrote:On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else. Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol... The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
We already know for a fact that he is monitoring is players computer and logging conversation that they have on skype... and since those logging program are not just logging skype conversation normally, I would guess that he pretty much log everything. So, we already know that he is a shady character that would do those type of things, even if the camera thing is true or not.
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On January 20 2012 22:38 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 22:35 Beef Noodles wrote:On January 20 2012 22:32 zeru wrote:On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote:
Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad... Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created. I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie... He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
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The bones of the story were correct; the initial reported details were exaggerated and subsequently corrected. Happens quite a lot in news.
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EPT
