I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
At this point I feel like even with these errors corrected, Coach Lee still comes off as a bad person. It should say a lot that even if those things might not have been true, to have rumors about things as serious as this floating around there's something afoot.
I think the biggest thing needed to learn here is that without cited sources ANYTHING can be untrue/rumor no matter who posts it. (looking at you Chill).
Thanks for being forward with the revised information.
EDIT: I think it is an absolutely terrible decision to delete the thread.
Besides number 1, I remember you stating 2-3 in your previous post (maybe you just implied that it was the case).
I respect you for writing this but you know there is going to be three people in this thread that will say "REKRUL CAN"T BE TRUSTED ANYMORE". Good luck with them.
The core of the problem is still clear. Hes a hypocrite and manipulated his way into "convincing" FD and Tester to switch. The corrections don't have the sensationalistic or the James Bond effect but boils down to the same message.
I just hope that everything works out for aLive and Fnatic. If he was on the verge of being offered a fantastic contract, I hope this situation didn't screw him out of it.
On January 20 2012 13:43 CosmicSpiral wrote: Well that actually changes the entire tone of the OP.
Not really, the bit about the video/audio thing was kinda far fetched in the original post, but everything else to do with Lee poaching ogs players and the confrontation hasn't changed. Lee is still a massive dick and a hypocrite in my opinion. Combined with:
- aLive reporting that coach lee has secretly accessed his skype logs which started the whole fanatic drama - the blackmail and betting story on playxp where Lee threatened to release information that FD/Tester had been betting (illegal in SKorea) unless they apologised in public (not verified but pretty likely at this point, see Milkis' post) - the metric fuck tonne of players leaving TSL regularly, usually with lots of drama involving Lee
Coach Lee is now in my mind an unbelievably shady charcter in the game and I don't see any progamers joining TSL anytime soon. I think he should resign imo
Its funny how you criticize coach lee for being dastardly and spreading misinformation (always playing the victim) then spread misinformation yourself. I don't really think everyone who read the previous thread will read this follow up thread and we'll have people walking around thinking that coach lee is much worse than he is. (Not saying that he is a good guy but no one deserves to be associated with something they aren't responsible for)
What info did Coach Lee dig up on Rekrul, to blackmail him into saying this? All jokes aside, thanks for clearing up some minor details, it really doesn't change what coach lee did though.
Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
well i think from what you've written I think coach lee is also a joke (I never did like him, always seemed like he was victim) but rekrul you shouldn't have went off rumours, sorry but you come out bad as well for this IMO. Obviously you're someone here that a lot of people will believe without question, and I'm sure you've done damage to lee's name by saying things you had no proof of at all other than those rumours, which isn't fair to him even with apology and retract
On January 20 2012 14:14 moonmeh wrote: Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
Translation seems about right, or at least covers the main points
On January 20 2012 14:14 moonmeh wrote: Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
All of this is very inaccurate and I do know this guy IRL.
On January 20 2012 13:50 tree.hugger wrote: Pretty sure this doesn't change any part of the story, except the fact that Coach Lee also isn't a mad scientist.
well put. he's just a normal guilt tripper, not also the hitler of esports now.
I remember some guy in the other thread posted something about Lee owning a PC bang or something and they were confused as to how it was originally claimed that Lee was desperate to stay somewhere because he was poor or homeless or something.
On January 20 2012 14:14 moonmeh wrote: Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
All of this is very inaccurate and I do know this guy IRL.
Wait so the whole thing abt FD and Tester being forced to apologize is complete BS?
On January 20 2012 14:14 moonmeh wrote: Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
All of this is very inaccurate and I do know this guy IRL.
Wait so the whole thing abt FD and Tester being forced to apologize is complete BS?
Well thanks for clearing that up. It's really unfortunate though that the previous thread is unavailable. I think some people might have wanted to read it but nevermind
On January 20 2012 14:14 moonmeh wrote: Rekrul could you please confirm what monster said here is legit? (On the playXP comments) While I translated what he wrote, a lot of is big stuff and I want to make sure you actually know him and vouch for him
Rekrul is my friend who can speak Korean well. In Korea with Elky he was a pro-gamer and now he is a poker player. The four, Dan, Elky, Giyom and Steven King, they are the same case and is very fiend and also friendly with spunky. He’s not a reporter but has been active on TL since BW (playXP mistakenly wrote Rekrul as reporter)
Previously during the FD/Tester team change where both players criticized the Coach and then apologized and disappeared Coach Lee blackmailed both FD and Tester and the ST coach so that the apology statement came up. Since FD and Tester were soon going to the army we were like let’s spill it all but because we thought about the SC2 scene as a whole FD and Tester wrote the apology and became the bad guys on the outside. It’s nothing big in some way but these two enjoyed sports betting websites and were blackmailed by the fact that did. If they didn’t raise the apology article, he (coach Lee) threatned to post it on an article. Seeing as SC2 is small and struggling, having two best players at the time being involved in such a scene would make it even harder so we accepted and posted the fake apology. This FD and Tester lied that Coach Lee did the job of the coach properly. Basically anything after the apology can be counted as lies and the previous information were all true. Also when Puma was changing team, he was congratulating him until the last day he stayed in the team house and the posted the article online the very next day. That is Coach Lee. He really often does things that cannot be comprehended. He must be mentally retarded.
Not sure about the players after, I quite paying attention to SC2. When Polt left Prime he got offers from IM, StarTale and TSL. I called him later saying don’t go to TSL no matter what but he replied back saying he got the contract on that exact day.
Additionally from what I remember when Coach Lee met with FD, Tester and the StarTale coach (Killer and Clide was there as well) one of the people from TSL was recording.
sorry if the translation seems to be off I'm tired as fuck
All of this is very inaccurate and I do know this guy IRL.
Wait so the whole thing abt FD and Tester being forced to apologize is complete BS?
Oh damn, all your translation work. TT
Lmao I don't care, i spend like 15minutes doing it (thus the roughness). But PlayXP is kinda getting active about and it would be hilariously tragic if what he said was inaccurate BS and would like to comment on PlayXP comments to calm the fuck down about it if it is so.
On January 20 2012 14:00 johnnywup wrote: that doesnt really change anything imo
Pretty much.
Pretty much 2x. I don't know if it warranted deleting the thread.. That's what the edit button is for, but I'll take what I get and accept its deletion. With that being said, Rek did the right thing in immediately identifying what he did wrong, explained it to the community, and allowed everyone to make their own choices. As stated above, and with this new clarification, the story still pretty much remains the same and doesn't give Lee too much credit for what he did as rational.
This should NOT make what Lee did acceptable, and everyone who tries to turn it around on Rek is just blind to the obvious, claiming 2 wrongs makes a right will never be acceptable.
So was all of what Rekrul claimed originally from Spunkys viewpoint? Before posting the original thread why didn't he approach Spunky to corroborate the rumors or was Spunky being bias ?
This does not change my mind at ALL on the situation, thanks for clearing a few things up, but the message is still the eact same, coach lee is a d-bag.
The clarifications really change nothing in this case.
The fact that it was more hanging around and not desperation that caused him to be in the oGs residence I think most people had already independently concluded was a bit of hyperbole to show the general demeanor with which he approached Spunky. I think it was clear enough from context that Lee wasn't in so bad a ways as to need to beg for a roof over his head.
The camera thing was already pretty clearly mentioned as hearsay from the players involved, with no claims to the actual truth of the matter. Regardless of whether there were any cameras there, I think there is still a pretty clear picture of how Lee was attempting to handle the situation (trying to create a situation where he can use blackmail, clearly his M.O. at this point).
FD and Tester's situation I think was also pretty clearly illustrated in the original post as a simple business decision on their part. Blackmail or not, it's clear by the end result that they were not happy with their decisions in the end anyways.
Hopefully this will discourage people to stir up other dramas with hope of getting into the TL awards at the end of 2012. Only drama I can think of that would be bigger than this is if someone posted a video of NaDa using a bunch of vietnamese kids to make the clothes he sells at his site.
On January 20 2012 14:16 askTeivospy wrote: well i think from what you've written I think coach lee is also a joke (I never did like him, always seemed like he was victim) but rekrul you shouldn't have went off rumours, sorry but you come out bad as well for this IMO. Obviously you're someone here that a lot of people will believe without question, and I'm sure you've done damage to lee's name by saying things you had no proof of at all other than those rumours, which isn't fair to him even with apology and retract
If people could exercise an element of critical thinking, it wouldnt be such a big deal...Why do people need to pay any attention to the more scandalous suggestions being thrown about by people who are not involved, who have not witnessed or experienced any of the conduct and are therefore inherently unreliable? (There are valid reasons why hearsay evidence is for the most part, subject to certain caveats, inadmissible in legal proceedings).
The simple fact that Coach Lee's player roster hemorrhages every few months is not speculation, is undeniable and is completely obvious to everyone. He's arguably not capable of fulfilling his role for this reason alone. I don't understand the fascination with attempting to lynch him for unproven, extraneous factors...
Details are irrelevant at this point, it's very clear that TSL is run on a very unhealthy environment due to coach Lee, I really hope everything works out for all the players.
You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
I don't care to comment on Coach Lee being an asshat, but it was pretty sad that everyone who had even the slightest doubt of details in the original thread got lambasted for it. Regardless, thanks for the clarification.
On January 20 2012 14:26 dmnum wrote: Hopefully this will discourage people to stir up other dramas with hope of getting into the TL awards at the end of 2012. Only drama I can think of that would be bigger than this is if someone posted a video of NaDa using a bunch of vietnamese kids to make the clothes he sells at his site.
I incidentally did find a video including a clip of NaDa actually working out at the gym.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Actually, it is to a large degree. And they're quite open about it, e.g. 10 Commandments - "This is our house", "Thou shall respect forum veterans", etc.
On January 20 2012 14:26 dmnum wrote: Hopefully this will discourage people to stir up other dramas with hope of getting into the TL awards at the end of 2012. Only drama I can think of that would be bigger than this is if someone posted a video of NaDa using a bunch of vietnamese kids to make the clothes he sells at his site.
I incidentally did find a video including a clip of NaDa actually working out at the gym.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
On January 20 2012 14:19 Medrea wrote: These changes are all rather minor in the grand scheme of things.
The original thread could have just been amended IMO.
While they may be considered "minor" things in the grand scheme of things (ie. taking FD and tester), 'desperately living with oGs,', 'camera accusations' and 'blackmail FD/Tester' etc. affects the whole mood of things/viewpoints of Lee. While I agree that this doesn't make what Lee does acceptable, it strikes a point on the bias-ness on sources of information, not saying that Rekrul was writing a story in complete favour/bias of spunky's PoV, but some information based on heresay (and people taking it as gospel truth, though they didn't know at that time it was) makes my neutral viewpoint of things from the start a little more firm now......
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
Rekrul, your journalistic integraty just dropped a bit. You need to publish your articles to your sources first so that they can assure the info is valid, and if it is heresay either don't publish it or claim it as such.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
But when you're lambasting someone about something that can seriously affect his reputation, you better be damn sure you got all your facts right and that its not biased in any way.
On January 20 2012 14:35 whatwhatanut wrote: Rekrul, your journalistic integraty just dropped a bit. You need to publish your articles to your sources first so that they can assure the info is valid, and if it is heresay either don't publish it or claim it as such.
On January 20 2012 14:19 Medrea wrote: These changes are all rather minor in the grand scheme of things.
The original thread could have just been amended IMO.
While they may be considered "minor" things in the grand scheme of things (ie. taking FD and tester), 'desperately living with oGs,', 'camera accusations' and 'blackmail FD/Tester' etc. affects the whole mood of things/viewpoints of Lee. While I agree that this doesn't make what Lee does acceptable, it strikes a point on the bias-ness on sources of information, not saying that Rekrul was writing a story in complete favour/bias of spunky's PoV, but some information based on heresay (and people taking it as gospel truth, though they didn't know at that time it was) makes my neutral viewpoint of things from the start a little more firm now......
The core of the problem is still clear. Hes a hypocrite and manipulated his way into "convincing" FD and Tester to switch. The corrections don't have the sensationalistic or the James Bond effect but boils down to the same message. I didn't really take the camera thing too seriously (neither did the bulk of the community members following the situation.) My problem with Lee also goes beyond this isolated situation. Its the sum of all parts that I'm looking at - this is but an another incident on his damaged resume.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
I don't nessecarily agree with what Lee did but I can't say that he did anything legally or ethically wrong. OGS had an "open" house and no player contracts from my take. So he just took advantage of the oppurtunity as did the players. No blame should fall squarely on his shoulders as ultimately the players decided to join TSL, no one forced them.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
I don't see how the few minor details he cleaned up completely make his previous post as something to disregard. One point was essentially not using the word desperate -_- . Another was obviously speculation in the original if you read into the post well enough (the camera part), but people were taking it to be fact. The last is just clearing up the extent of how malicious people make Lee out to be.
The ultimate point of his post is still relevant. Lee jacked players from oGs, later publicly causes drama and accuses teams of jacking his players.
zZzZzZz who cares what was said or done. Here are the facts:
Coach Lee took FD and Tester out from under the noses of oGs whether it was legal or not. Coach Lee has now been in multiple controversies with EG for puma and fnatic for alive. So its just karma.
On January 20 2012 14:35 whatwhatanut wrote: Rekrul, your journalistic integraty just dropped a bit. You need to publish your articles to your sources first so that they can assure the info is valid, and if it is heresay either don't publish it or claim it as such.
He isn't a journalist, hth
Ok so his posting integraty he posted on the forum but I just felt my original terminology was stronger and more impactful.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
He wasn't wrong, there were just some details to the story that were exaggerated. The story afterwards is still pretty damning to lee, and he's still a massive drama stirring hypocrite.
He both admitted to and apologized for the inaccuracies. Would you like him burned at the stake?
On January 20 2012 14:26 dmnum wrote: Hopefully this will discourage people to stir up other dramas with hope of getting into the TL awards at the end of 2012. Only drama I can think of that would be bigger than this is if someone posted a video of NaDa using a bunch of vietnamese kids to make the clothes he sells at his site.
I incidentally did find a video including a clip of NaDa actually working out at the gym.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
But when you're lambasting someone about something that can seriously affect his reputation, you better be damn sure you got all your facts right and that its not biased in any way.
...........I'm not saying otherwise. The facts about what went down with Lee poaching the players and Spunky confronting them and Lee remained consistant and other pro-gamers came out in that thread and said that they also knew about it.
Alright I'm done, no more time wasting at work lol
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
I don't see how the few minor details he cleaned up completely make his previous post as something to disregard. One point was essentially not using the word desperate -_- . Another was obviously speculation in the original if you read into the post well enough (the camera part), but people were taking it to be fact. The last is just clearing up the extent of how malicious people make Lee out to be.
The ultimate point of his post is still relevant. Lee jacked players from oGs, later publicly causes drama and accuses teams of jacking his players.
I agree that the core of his post still stands, but the (wrong) minor details can also be very deadly.
If you were in a maths exam and had "10.3" (wrong answer) written in the final answer box instead of "1.03" (right answer) even though your entire working out on the same pieces of paper pointed to the answer being "1.03", you're still gonna be marked wrong.
If Artosis is the Esports moss that shows what direction its going, Rekrul is the Esports mushroom patch that shows you were all the dead bodies are buried.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
I don't nessecarily agree with what Lee did but I can't say that he did anything legally or ethically wrong. OGS had an "open" house and no player contracts from my take. So he just took advantage of the oppurtunity as did the players. No blame should fall squarely on his shoulders as ultimately the players decided to join TSL, no one forced them.
On January 20 2012 14:45 Antisocialmunky wrote: If Artosis is the Esports moss that shows what direction its going, Rekrul is the Esports mushroom patch that shows you were all the dead bodies are buried.
!!!rekruL og oG
Ha. Great analogy. Rekrul, we still love you around these parts!
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
But when you're lambasting someone about something that can seriously affect his reputation, you better be damn sure you got all your facts right and that its not biased in any way.
...........I'm not saying otherwise. The facts about what went down with Lee poaching the players and Spunky confronting them and Lee remained consistant and other pro-gamers came out in that thread and said that they also knew about it.
Alright I'm done, no more time wasting at work lol
..........I'm not saying otherwise too. I'm not questioning the core of his message, but the fact whether he should have posted what he posted with information he heard "through the grapevine". Straw man arguments isn't the way to go here.
OK, I don't know why the original thread needed to be deleted. The changes to that OP is cosmetic, may be a little bit substance wise. Coach Lee doesn't look as pathetic, because he apparently didn't beg to live with oGs for free. OK, that may be important for Coach Lee's pride, but it's pretty much unimportant for me, as a fan.
He may not have recorded his conversation with Spunky. Again, this is a minor thing, may be he actually did.
The big things that show Coach Lee as a sneaky bastard are still there.
I am a bit disappointed that Rekrul didn't expand on Monstery's post on PlayXP. "It's very inaccurate"? Like how? What's the real story. Don't backtrack now, please.
Meh, and to think I made a comment in the previous thread commending Rekrul's credibility and accuracy. Regardless, props on being a good person and admitting those corners you cut in your initial post.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
I don't see how the few minor details he cleaned up completely make his previous post as something to disregard. One point was essentially not using the word desperate -_- . Another was obviously speculation in the original if you read into the post well enough (the camera part), but people were taking it to be fact. The last is just clearing up the extent of how malicious people make Lee out to be.
The ultimate point of his post is still relevant. Lee jacked players from oGs, later publicly causes drama and accuses teams of jacking his players.
I agree that the core of his post still stands, but the (wrong) minor details can also be very deadly.
If you were in a maths exam and had "10.3" (wrong answer) written in the final answer box instead of "1.03" (right answer) even though your entire working out on the same pieces of paper pointed to the answer being "1.03", you're still gonna be marked wrong.
seriously? this isn't math, it's a judge of someones character.
Been trying to think of a more intelligent reply to the people hating on Rekrul for not being a journalist, but screw it -- thanks for the original post and the clarification. I think you did the right thing by sharing what you knew and then clarifying that you found out some of the extreme parts were just speculation. Still says a lot about Coach Lee in all the TSL drama.
dammit, i had my pitchfork and pyre set up ----_____________----,,,, ;;;;;____;;;;; but seriously rek, thanks for the clear up. On another note, this still doesn't change the fact that Lee in essence took members by poaching and is now crying about that, which doesn't change the main point of your OP.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
But when you're lambasting someone about something that can seriously affect his reputation, you better be damn sure you got all your facts right and that its not biased in any way.
...........I'm not saying otherwise. The facts about what went down with Lee poaching the players and Spunky confronting them and Lee remained consistant and other pro-gamers came out in that thread and said that they also knew about it.
Alright I'm done, no more time wasting at work lol
..........I'm not saying otherwise too. I'm not questioning the core of his message, but the fact whether he should have posted what he posted with information he heard "through the grapevine". Straw man arguments isn't the way to go here.
I agree with you. The exaggeration was a bit much. I personally didn't take those parts seriously though, hope the same goes for the majority.
On January 20 2012 14:48 Xxavi wrote: OK, I don't know why the original thread needed to be deleted. The changes to that OP is cosmetic, may be a little bit substance wise. Coach Lee doesn't look as pathetic, because he apparently didn't beg to live with oGs for free. OK, that may be important for Coach Lee's pride, but it's pretty much unimportant for me, as a fan.
He may not have recorded his conversation with Spunky. Again, this is a minor thing, may be he actually did.
The big things that show Coach Lee as a sneaky bastard are still there.
I am a bit disappointed that Rekrul didn't expand on Monstery's post on PlayXP. "It's very inaccurate"? Like how? What's the real story. Don't backtrack now, please.
Honestly having translated that and recieiving it's inaccurate makes me confused as hell XD
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
But when you're lambasting someone about something that can seriously affect his reputation, you better be damn sure you got all your facts right and that its not biased in any way.
...........I'm not saying otherwise. The facts about what went down with Lee poaching the players and Spunky confronting them and Lee remained consistant and other pro-gamers came out in that thread and said that they also knew about it.
Alright I'm done, no more time wasting at work lol
..........I'm not saying otherwise too. I'm not questioning the core of his message, but the fact whether he should have posted what he posted with information he heard "through the grapevine". Straw man arguments isn't the way to go here.
FFS, I said in my reply that you initially quoted that I agree he shouldn't have put in that stuff. Quit arguing with me!! We are saying the same goddam thing.
Congratulations guys, you got all hyped up on the very drama you abhor and made yourselves all out to be idiots. TL can be such a childish place sometimes..
All this team/player drama bullshit needs to find a nice hole to crawl into where it can't bother the rest of us who are interested in the game of starcraft and not high school gossip.
Hmmm... Rekrul, I <3 ya because you're like the old man of E-sports around here these days. You usually tell it like it is but this completely changes the whole tone of the story. I'm a bit disappointed in you.
On January 20 2012 14:51 theBALLS wrote: Well, all I'm wondering is WHY rekrul posted this "apology".
He wouldn't do this without stimuli.
He has honor.
The people in the 'know' say Lee is actually a dick and is quite shady.
I feel like I know Coach Lee and he is anything but a dick or shady... He's a hardworking guy who overreacts a little when people do things he perceives as wrong or disrespectful. You can't blame him for being so invested in what he does.
A Rekrul apology thread, welp I guess TL is finally growing up. Next time don't exaggerate unsubstantiated shit while having a TL admin tag next to your name because people actually believe in you. Good call on deleting the previous thread.
On January 20 2012 14:51 theBALLS wrote: Well, all I'm wondering is WHY rekrul posted this "apology".
He wouldn't do this without stimuli.
Those 3 points really made Coach lee like a villain in one of those ridiculous soap operas, sure nothing has changed in this situation but those 3 points really made a bad impact on the perceptions of Coach Lee's character.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
I don't nessecarily agree with what Lee did but I can't say that he did anything legally or ethically wrong. OGS had an "open" house and no player contracts from my take. So he just took advantage of the oppurtunity as did the players. No blame should fall squarely on his shoulders as ultimately the players decided to join TSL, no one forced them.
legally wrong no ethically wrong yes.
I still can't really see how Lee is at fault. I would lay the blame on the players but maybe that is cause I am a fan of free business competition and protecting your products with contracts and copyrights. No contract, no recourse, no wrongdoing by Lee is my take.
On January 20 2012 14:51 theBALLS wrote: Well, all I'm wondering is WHY rekrul posted this "apology".
He wouldn't do this without stimuli.
Those 3 points really made Coach lee like a villain in one of those ridiculous soap operas, sure nothing has changed in this situation but those 3 points really made a bad impact on the perceptions of Coach Lee's character.
And he is no longer is a villain with those points cleared up? He's now a moral beacon of light?
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit:
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.
I don't nessecarily agree with what Lee did but I can't say that he did anything legally or ethically wrong. OGS had an "open" house and no player contracts from my take. So he just took advantage of the oppurtunity as did the players. No blame should fall squarely on his shoulders as ultimately the players decided to join TSL, no one forced them.
legally wrong no ethically wrong yes.
I still can't really see how Lee is at fault. I would lay the blame on the players but maybe that is cause I am a fan of free business competition and protecting your products with contracts and copyrights. No contract, no recourse, no wrongdoing by Lee is my take.
In that case I assume you think that Lee stirring up so much drama in the Puma/aLive situations was completely unjustified. Not trying to critique your views or anything, more of a legitimate question.
I still don't like coach Lee. Even though a few things may have been "rumors". He still seems extremely shallow and did as well steal FD and tester under Spunky. The situation with Puma got put under the rug because it was the first incident, but when it happens a second time with the same situation, It's a lot harder to believe. From interviews with aLive and Fnatic it seems coach Lee likes to "cause drama" in hopes people take pitty for him and follow TSL because he had been "done wrong" by other teams.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
Yes and no. I think it's always a good thing for the community to get this stuff out in the open, rather than having it explode. At least when stuff is put out there, individuals have the ability to clear up misunderstandings and get all sides of a story. Just need to be a bit more neutral in how the information is presented IMO.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least.
I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
The fact is (for all you doubters of his "integrity") he wanted to get the news out. He posts it. He realizes mistakes 8 hours (or so) later. he fixes them right away. What has coach lee said about Puma and aLive being poached? Has he ever brought this (or his mistakes) up and said I'm sorry, but I still don't deserve this? Has he owned up to his mistakes?
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least.
I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
Its too bad that thread was deleted because everyone that got banned were trolls and it was obvious. Everyone that got banned were also reported by various people, I would know because I would try and report them but they were already reported.
I had intended this to be a blog, but apparently this didn't belong in the blogs section and in here instead.
I'm writing this mostly for myself, as I'd like to express my thoughts on the entire situation in some form, however I've been asked by a few people to share my views as I've been one of the more vocal TSL supporters on the site as of late. Don't expect this to be thoroughly proofread as my news posts are, as I want to spill words out and then be done with it. As a friend, the entire situation has not only shaken my views on Coach Lee as a person, but as a leader as well.
That being said, it's not hard to know I'm a big TSL fan and supporter if you spend a decent amount of time around here. I tend to pride myself on knowing many things about the TSL team, and it was very considerate of Coach Lee to allow me to be the one releasing things to the public. As I am not a speaker of the Korean language however, I should have realized that the information I received was not only limited by the amount of interaction between the two languages, but by professionalism as well. I constantly got updates behind the scenes on my favorite team, sure, but I was a little blinded simply by the nature of our interaction. With the recent revelation by Rekrul, which I have no reason to believe is false, and no evidence pointing to the contrary, my whole view on TSL, not as a team of players, but as a group held together by what I once thought was the infallible Coach Lee has been shaken at the foundation.
When I at first heard news that there was a possibility of a partnership between Fnatic and TSL, I was very excited. It would mean that I might have a chance to see more of my favorite players at international events as well as helping the team bolster it's already weakened roster. I was happy to see Rain back in the TSL house, training for the Code A qualifiers and things seemed to be going well. Shortly thereafter, I was privileged enough to learn the identity of a new TSL player, which excited me very much for the upcoming GSTL, so much that I penned a BroodWar-esque hype thread for TSL. Mere hours after I had written it, however, the clouds began to darken as news was passed to me about the situation involving the Fnatic translator and the failure of the TSL/Fnatic partnership. At this point I think it's important to remind you that my information all came from the TSL side of things, and as a fan I was extremely angry and disappointed with Fnatic. In the same timespan, I also found out about Fnatic signing Moon, and while I was happy that Moon had finally found a team for Starcraft 2, I was upset that it was Fnatic, as I felt I could no longer support anyone from the organization including players.
Fast forward a few days, and the Fnatic hype video for Moon is revealed and I did an extremely rash and unprofessional thing confirming not only that the player in question WAS Moon, but also that aLive had left for Fnatic (keep in mind I only had the TSL information at this point). After Fnatics announcement of Moon, many people began to doubt my information (despite the fact that by then aLive's name had been removed from the TSL roster and his Twitter had changed). I knew it was only a matter of time before someone spoke out at the aLive/TSL/Fnatic debacle. I happened to be sitting at my computer as the news broke, and spent the next few hours fiercely defending my friend from other forum-goers. I even went as far as to insinuate that ToD, a Fnatic player, was misinformed and that Fnatic had, in fact, wronged TSL. Shortly thereafter, Fnatic released their statement, and while somewhat vaguely worded, it began to call into question my belief in the information I had received.
Shortly after , I received news (not from Coach Lee, but a source that will remain anonymous) that another TSL Player, Heart had left the team. This has since been refuted by Coach Lee, but he has not been able to clarify the situation, or why the e-mail I had seen would exist. Furthermore, upon discussion with other forum-goers someone on TeamLiquid told me to "update my signature" as Heart had also left the team (something I did not think should have been released publicly at the time). I kept acting to defend Coach Lee, as more and more people began to harshly criticize him and say hurtful things about my friend which I knew he was silently reading. I went to sleep last night slightly depressed about the whole situation.
I woke up this morning, and came across Rekrul's revelation about the situation involving Coach Lee, oGsSpunky, TesteR and Fruitdealer. I will say that never have I been that speechless in my life. Knowing Rekrul to be an extremely reliable source, I was not only extremely shocked that the Coach Lee I knew could do something like that, but also continue to act as he did in situations like the PuMa/EG deal and this current debacle. I could perhaps have fully understood if the situation had occurred and Coach Lee perhaps repented and changed his ways, but the more I looked at it, and analyzed it I couldn't force myself to believe he had.
I would like to first apologize to anyone I may have offended with comments regarding TSL and/or their remarks about Coach Lee. I don't think I said anything particularly insulting, but if I did, I apologize. Furthermore, I would also like to state that I'm not turning against my friend Coach Lee. Perhaps TT1 and I have different views on life, but I never think it's a good idea to give anyone the "blackbook 4 life" treatment. I am certainly willing to give him a second chance should he accept responsibility for what he may or may not have done, and I think the community should be willing to do the same.
On another note, this has been an eye-opening experience to me. Recently, I have taken on a very public and official role as a Team Manager, and I have realized that when trying to interface with the community in a professional way, there's not room to also have super-fanboyish tendencies. While I will still cheer for my favorite players from the team, I won't be expressing it nearly as much or as often simply because I plan to busy myself with other facets of eSports. As such, in the future I will not only be working harder to better my own team, and help my own extremely talented and hard-working players succeed, but to also bring more content from my contacts in the Korean scene to the foreign eye. I hope you will all join me in supporting my players at Team Clash in the times to come.
I'm glad this has been cleared up. Rekrul's main point, about Coach Lee being a hypocrite, was devastating enough and did not need to be enhanced by unsubstantiated gossip. Whatever happens next, looks like Coach Lee is sunk.
I think the OP really fucked up by spreading wrong information that change the image and reputation of coach Lee and yourself. Think about this's the last time that I will ever read anything from you. If you wanna talk shit about others, at least speak the truths and be sure about it, not just I heard blah blah blah on the street.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least.
I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
This, I had no problem with Rekrul's post either but the superior attitude from moderators, old timers and staff members towards anyone who tried to apply even the lowest form of critical thinking to the story was remarkable. It's a shame the thread got deleted.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
Yea well I didn't like that Rekrul said bullshit. WTF rekrul?
Edit: I can't overturn bans (only admins can) but they should obviously all be reversed.
Edit 2: It's not something I typically do. Just trusted Rekrul since he has a 100% success rate previous to this. People with no history here won't understand it and it's easy to say told you so. Anyways, sorry about that.
I'm with those who believe this doesn't change much. It makes Coach Lee not look quite as terrible, but he still didn't come out looking good.
I'm also surprised the thread got removed/deleted, rather than simply crossed out incorrect sections with an edit message or clarification in the changes.
I still stand with my pref post, when that much people leave or do not wish to practice in house, you are doing something wrong as a coach. And Lee should look at himself for that.
Also still does not change a thing about karma, he poached oGs players while being a guest in the oGs house.
On January 20 2012 15:11 tuho12345 wrote: I think the OP really fucked up by spreading wrong information that change the image and reputation of coach Lee and yourself. Think about this's the last time that I will ever read anything from you. If you wanna talk shit about others, at least speak the truths and be sure about it, not just I heard blah blah blah on the street.
who cares about what you think of rekrul, honestly? it's extremely condescending the way you wrote "i won't read anything from you again" when all of his previous claims or things hes heard have been correct? if you're going to talk shit and say "im not going to read anything you say blah blah", at least read what rekruls written before, because things like the matchfixing scandal were huge.
I honestly was just laughing at the post. I love how he refers to Rekrul as "the OP." I'll be the first to admit I'm a hardcore SC newbie (only been following SC2 for a year, read about BW history but never followed it). With that in mind, even I know who Rekrul is and that he's not just some scrub you can shrug off when he comes out with info like this.
On January 20 2012 15:11 ninjamyst wrote: i wonder what dirt Coach Lee has on rekrul....shame.
Maybe a call from Coach Lee's lawyer forced Rekrul to delete and make this apology thread. Most of the things he said on the OP couldn't be proven or isn't 100% true and he could of been sued for libel/slander for ruining Couch Lee character.
But i'm glad he clarified the story but it seems the damage has already been done.
On January 20 2012 15:11 tuho12345 wrote: I think the OP really fucked up by spreading wrong information that change the image and reputation of coach Lee and yourself. Think about this's the last time that I will ever read anything from you. If you wanna talk shit about others, at least speak the truths and be sure about it, not just I heard blah blah blah on the street.
The core of what he said remains true. I am surprised that (relatively) minor details for you is so important. Of course the hidden camera thing was a stretched guess, and it was evident from beginning.
Coach Lee being of no use to oGs but benefiting from living there for free and eating food shows him as a person with no pride, so yes, it paints him as a bit of a loser, but the main point was that he is a hypocrite. He cannot stop crying about teams taking his players not talking to him, yet this is how he started his SC2 "career". And he did this to his "friend", he did this to the teamhouse he visited. It's pretty bad, worse than what a distant EG or Fnatic did to TSL, who are barely connected.
So again, why is it that you are so over the top in your reaction to OP? Coach Lee's reputation is what it is not because of Rekrul, but because of his actions.
I totally saw this one coming. I knew there were some elements of truth in Rek's first topic, but I also believed alot of it were simply based on hear-say off the rumor mills.
So coach Lee is still a hypocrite but because of this people will turn around and pretend as if he was a saint.
Nothing changed much tbh, but the other thread was waaay over the top. It kinda was cool because I found out about the girl who got some nerd to fly her to America.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit:
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
Yea well I didn't like that Rekrul said bullshit. WTF rekrul?
Edit: I can't overturn bans (only admins can) but they should obviously all be reversed.
Edit 2: It's not something I typically do. Just trusted Rekrul since he has a 100% success rate previous to this. People with no history here won't understand it and it's easy to say told you so. Anyways, sorry about that.
I'm not trying to question you or anything, but maybe its those people who are new here who doesnt know the history that can see the neutral picture easier.
I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he should just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
On January 20 2012 15:32 Eulerzman wrote: Wow OP you are horrible at saying you are sorry. You got caught spreading false info and yet you are still an ass about it. Niiiice
no he didn't get caught, he admitted that some was speculation and corrected it. just because he made a mistake doesn't mean you have to take the opposite side because he's wrong now, because for the majority of it he was completely right.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Vei wrote: So many people leave TSL compared to other teams, there has to be something up just the players are too shy/classy to tell the public.
I'm kinda finding it funny how a lot of this stuff has been speculated about by Korean pros, so they must know something's going on.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he should just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I'm sure Rekrul learned a valuable lesson about sensationalism. It's a good thing he is who he is or this would be a bigger deal than it will end up being.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Vei wrote: So many people leave TSL compared to other teams, there has to be something up just the players are too shy/classy to tell the public.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
I guess cross-continental suing is more difficult? Hahaha. Idk, I don't deal with law.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit:
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
Yea well I didn't like that Rekrul said bullshit. WTF rekrul?
Edit: I can't overturn bans (only admins can) but they should obviously all be reversed.
Edit 2: It's not something I typically do. Just trusted Rekrul since he has a 100% success rate previous to this. People with no history here won't understand it and it's easy to say told you so. Anyways, sorry about that.
Ehh, they shouldn't be reversed. Maybe reconsidered. Some of them were clearly trolling but that's up to the admins to decide.
On January 20 2012 15:18 Phyrigian wrote: who cares if some things/rumours were not true, in the end the bottom line remains the same.
On January 20 2012 15:11 tuho12345 wrote: I think the OP really fucked up by spreading wrong information that change the image and reputation of coach Lee and yourself. Think about this's the last time that I will ever read anything from you. If you wanna talk shit about others, at least speak the truths and be sure about it, not just I heard blah blah blah on the street.
who cares about what you think of rekrul, honestly? it's extremely condescending the way you wrote "i won't read anything from you again" when all of his previous claims or things hes heard have been correct? if you're going to talk shit and say "im not going to read anything you say blah blah", at least read what rekruls written before, because things like the matchfixing scandal were huge.
I honestly was just laughing at the post. I love how he refers to Rekrul as "the OP." I'll be the first to admit I'm a hardcore SC newbie (only been following SC2 for a year, read about BW history but never followed it). With that in mind, even I know who Rekrul is and that he's not just some scrub you can shrug off when he comes out with info like this.
bold: but he did pull some bullshit off and now apologize for it didn't he?
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
I guess cross-continental suing is more difficult? Hahaha. Idk, I don't deal with law.
I don't know Korean Law at all but I'd guess in America it is a lot harder to prove what he said was slanderous. Rekrul could argue that he had good reason to believe what was said about Coach Lee was true and therefore he is completely protected under the law. In Korea, (I think but I don't know), the courts are more sensitive to slanderous things like what Rekrul posted.
Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
to apologise is all and well, but don't you think you should refrain from lashing out/rumour-mongering in the future in general chat? there is a blog section....
I'm sorry to see that there were misunderstandings going around. I hope we can get some real transparency around the issues, for the sake of the players involved. I hope any other Korean players or coaches who can confirm this (or deny it, i suppose) will come forward
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
While Rek was a bit sensationalistic ect, I still think the bulk of his OP still holds merit for us.
I personally doubt he would have retracted any of it, but as soon as I heard someone mention "Korean Netizen" in the op, and as I simultaneously started thinking about Slayers Jessica suing teenagers on twitter... it REALLY doesn't seem out of place for a foreigner in Korea to not want to risk legal trouble and getting sued over gossip, and over something that can be argued as much more defamatory. Rek's a poker player remember? He knows when to fold em' :p
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
OR he got a letter/phone call from Lee's lawyer. That seems 10x more likely than spunky is being black-mailed.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
OR he got a letter/phone call from Lee's lawyer. That seems 10x more likely than spunky is being black-mailed.
If rekrul is lying sure
But why would rekrul lie? He has nothing to gain. If you listen to SOTG then you know lee is probably a shady character, I dont think he wants the law involved - especially if what rek said was true.
If rek is telling the truth - blackmail more likely If rek is lying - probably lawyer, but I really dont think so
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
true, it is strange and unprecedented for rekrul to post a retraction like this. but then again this thread only has minor retractions involved >_< most likely everything rekrul posted originally was what he had highly likely believed to be true, or else he wouldn't have posted it. the only thing from this thread that I believe is a legit retraction is the fact that coach lee didn't really live there but just stayed there for periods.
If you're going to take a huge dump on some ones reputation in a very public forum like this, you owe it to them to at least deliver a somewhat non-biased, factual-based sequence of events pertaining to the situation. TL celebrity or not, what Rekrul posted was immature hyperbole. Regardless of how much of a saint/devil coach Lee is, IDK why most people here are just lapping this up and forgiving Rekrul with a gentle pat on the back.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
edit : nvm found it. I see. Well, good for Virgil and apologies to you.
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
OR he got a letter/phone call from Lee's lawyer. That seems 10x more likely than spunky is being black-mailed.
If rekrul is lying sure
But why would rekrul lie? He has nothing to gain. If you listen to SOTG then you know lee is probably a shady character, I dont think he wants the law involved - especially if what rek said was true.
If rek is telling the truth - blackmail more likely If rek is lying - probably lawyer, but I really dont think so
I don't believe Rekrul was intentionally lying when he made his first post. However, that doesn't mean he didn't defame Coach Lee in law.
Coach Lee has next to nothing to hide. This article by Rekrul is already out there now. If he could sue, which he may not be able to do, I think he would. Even if it's uncertain, a letter threatening legal action would make most people revise what they said, especially if it turned out they had listened to rumours which were in no way true. No one goes to court unless they have something to gain.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
Yeah basically. If what rekrul said is not true, he could be sued for defamation of character, but if it's not true I don't see why he'd need coach lee to force him to apologize so I highly doubt that's what happened. And if what he said was true, then obviously coach lee would have no way to make him apologize, since you can't stop someone from saying the truth about you.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
I semi-agree with what youre saying. The apology seems too formal. My guess is that what he posted was too much of an exaggeration so he decided to cut out the extra stuff and just get to the bottom line. In the process, he probably realized that what he said is too defamatory and there could be unnecessary repercussions. But the good news is that main point that he was trying to get across is still crystal clear.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
Yeah basically. If what rekrul said is not true, he could be sued for defamation of character, but if it's not true I don't see why he'd need coach lee to force him to apologize so I highly doubt that's what happened. And if what he said was true, then obviously coach lee would have no way to make him apologize, since you can't stop someone from saying the truth about you.
Look, parts of what he said weren't true. He says as much in the OP!
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
OR he got a letter/phone call from Lee's lawyer. That seems 10x more likely than spunky is being black-mailed.
If rekrul is lying sure
But why would rekrul lie? He has nothing to gain. If you listen to SOTG then you know lee is probably a shady character, I dont think he wants the law involved - especially if what rek said was true.
If rek is telling the truth - blackmail more likely If rek is lying - probably lawyer, but I really dont think so
I don't believe Rekrul was intentionally lying when he made his first post. However, that doesn't mean he didn't defame Coach Lee in law.
Coach Lee has next to nothing to hide. This article by Rekrul is already out there now. If he could sue, which he may not be able to do, I think he would. Even if it's uncertain, a letter threatening legal action would make most people revise what they said, especially if it turned out they had listened to rumours which were in no way true. No one goes to court unless they have something to gain.
On January 20 2012 16:22 LilClinkin wrote: If you're going to take a huge dump on some ones reputation in a very public forum like this, you owe it to them to at least deliver a somewhat non-biased, factual-based sequence of events pertaining to the situation. TL celebrity or not, what Rekrul posted was immature hyperbole. Regardless of how much of a saint/devil coach Lee is, IDK why most people here are just lapping this up and forgiving Rekrul with a gentle pat on the back.
Because while parts of his story were incorrect, the underlying events and hypocritical actions by Lee have not been redacted from the story. Should have have stuck to the facts? Sure, but that doesn't mean you condemn and vilify Rek for still getting news out there. He had the balls to redact the statements that he found out were incorrect.
Rekrul didn't fly off the handle posting an entirely unsubstantiated story filled with inaccuracies and blatant lies. He posted a story that was meant to demonstrate the hypocritical actions of Coach Lee, but he did have some misinformation that he had not confirmed as factual.
Keep in mind that Rekrul is also not a journalist. His standards are his own and he doesn't owe it to the community to reveal sources, issue corrections, or even post any news at all; but he chooses to do so.
On January 20 2012 15:36 Eulerzman wrote: I am not taking the opposite side. I dont give a crap either way about Lee tbh. I just think if someone is supposed to be giving an apology for screwing things up he just give a real apology not some half assed "but im still right" statement.
I think he is forced to right that apology, so obviously it is not sincere. Because he is in Korea, he can be sued for any information on internet.
I am sure if he were in America and coach Lee contacted and demanded apology, he'd laugh to his face and say "fuck off". I'd do that.
You can be sued for this in America too?_?
Especially if he can make a case that this can hamper his career.The only difference is that you are more anonymous.
Yeah basically. If what rekrul said is not true, he could be sued for defamation of character, but if it's not true I don't see why he'd need coach lee to force him to apologize so I highly doubt that's what happened. And if what he said was true, then obviously coach lee would have no way to make him apologize, since you can't stop someone from saying the truth about you.
Look, parts of what he said weren't true. He says as much in the OP!
I know, I was trying to explain to the guy who said you can get away with making false accusations about someone in america. I was explaining to him that by doing so, in a situation like this where it damages ones character, you can be sued for it in america too and it's not just "korean crazy laws" as he seems to think. I was also agreeing with the person I quoted, who was trying to explain the same thing basically.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
On January 20 2012 15:52 Rayeth wrote: Pretty weak IMO. Not really sure how it counts as libel for stating somethings that you think. TBH not sure how any forum post counts as posting facts as this is not really a news site. BUt I guess the laws in Korea are different somehow? Can they get you for a post on a non-Korean internet forum? Weird.
If it's something he thinks is true he should just leave it there, if it isn't what he thinks why post it in the first place? If it was rumors or whatnot just put that in there and you're good. No reason to delete the thread.
A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
OR he got a letter/phone call from Lee's lawyer. That seems 10x more likely than spunky is being black-mailed.
If rekrul is lying sure
But why would rekrul lie? He has nothing to gain. If you listen to SOTG then you know lee is probably a shady character, I dont think he wants the law involved - especially if what rek said was true.
If rek is telling the truth - blackmail more likely If rek is lying - probably lawyer, but I really dont think so
He lies so he can cause the giant shitstorm and get attention? look at how many posts there are on that thread than this one.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I also didn't say that I was going to stop cheering for TSL. I said I could no longer support Coach Lee knowing these things, and that I didn't plan on giving up on my favorite players from this team.
Ok... so the retractions make Coach Lee look a little bit less crazy.. but if everything else from the original thread is true then it still makes him look pretty bad.
Why not post the rest of it? The things that ARE true? Clearing up misinformation is great, but don't let it guilt you into not admitting everything else he ACTUALLY did.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
As annoyed as i am by all this issue, i really want to write this to you, Rekrul: You seriously should consider writing in another 'style' if you state such things, and not kick off with a troll bait ("lol SC2 sucks").
The Mod staff of TL now wouldn't be sitting around with dunce hats after defending your positions so fervidly.
That being said, my interest in posting this is not TSL or you, but rather the conductance of the TL mod staff, which i respect, excluding this case.
On January 20 2012 16:22 LilClinkin wrote: If you're going to take a huge dump on some ones reputation in a very public forum like this, you owe it to them to at least deliver a somewhat non-biased, factual-based sequence of events pertaining to the situation. TL celebrity or not, what Rekrul posted was immature hyperbole. Regardless of how much of a saint/devil coach Lee is, IDK why most people here are just lapping this up and forgiving Rekrul with a gentle pat on the back.
Rekrul didn't fly off the handle posting an entirely unsubstantiated story filled with inaccuracies and blatant lies. He posted a story that was meant to demonstrate the hypocritical actions of Coach Lee, but he did have some misinformation that he had not confirmed as factual.
I'm pretty sure his initial post qualifies as "flying off the handle" and was, by his own admission, riddled with a number of inaccuracies.
Remember what happened when a certain someone posted an incorrectly translated summary of Mr Chae's comments on the infamous Naniwa incident? Thousands of angry swedish people suddenly showed up in the thread and turned it into a cesspool.
We don't need starcraft's equivalent of perez hilton operating outside the boundaries of good sense. Yes, he was right about the match fixing, thank you very much. But what's the harm in waiting for a clear statement from the parties involved? Why, do you want a medal for being a couple weeks early?
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
On January 20 2012 16:22 LilClinkin wrote: If you're going to take a huge dump on some ones reputation in a very public forum like this, you owe it to them to at least deliver a somewhat non-biased, factual-based sequence of events pertaining to the situation. TL celebrity or not, what Rekrul posted was immature hyperbole. Regardless of how much of a saint/devil coach Lee is, IDK why most people here are just lapping this up and forgiving Rekrul with a gentle pat on the back.
Rekrul didn't fly off the handle posting an entirely unsubstantiated story filled with inaccuracies and blatant lies. He posted a story that was meant to demonstrate the hypocritical actions of Coach Lee, but he did have some misinformation that he had not confirmed as factual.
I'm pretty sure his initial post qualifies as "flying off the handle" and was, by his own admission, riddled with a number of inaccuracies.
Remember what happened when a certain someone posted an incorrectly translated summary of Mr Chae's comments on the infamous Naniwa incident? Thousands of angry swedish people suddenly showed up in the thread and turned it into a cesspool.
We don't need starcraft's equivalent of perez hilton operating outside the boundaries of good sense. Yes, he was right about the match fixing, thank you very much. But what's the harm in waiting for a clear statement from the parties involved? Why, do you want a medal for being a couple weeks early?
Notice how there was more to my sentence than just, "Rekrul didn't fly off the handle?" Should he have kept to the facts? Yes. As to your question, why wait for statements from the parties involved? What makes you think this news would've ever come out in the first place if Rekrul wasn't the one to do it? It's not a matter of "a couple weeks early", it's a matter of story vs no story.
This happened months and months ago and there had been no public discussion about it until Rekrul's post.
slight addendum for clarification: I was assuming the question about being early/statements were about the most recent post. If it's about the match fixing then I simply don't see its relevance.
Although I did read the original deleted post and remember most of it, does anyone here have a copy+paste or screenshot of it? For reference, of course, since it was deleted.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee? And I mean Coach lee personally, I know you will still support TSL that could be because of the players.
On January 20 2012 16:12 Subversive wrote: A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
Of course, British libel law is hardly as respectable a standard as the pound sterling.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
^^ A true fan,or maybe you're just loyal to TSL cause of their badass jacket (jk), god I want one so badly.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
I think many people confuse me for the average TSL fan. I had a fairly personal relationship with the coach as a person, not as the coach of TSL. After these revelations, should they be true, I feel that the Coach Lee I knew as a friend is not actually who he really is. In that sense, no, I will not be supporting the TSL coach, as the hard times brought upon my favorite team came from faults within him. I think it's easy to look at the situation saying that he was trying to do what's best for the team, no matter the cost. However, I think he lost sight of the team as a bond between the coach and the individual players.
The main point I was trying to make with my post is that for all the hard work I put into trying to defend my friends honor before the angry mob of TeamLiquid users, it turned out he was not the man he portrayed himself as. I hope you can see how it would be a little hard to continue to wish to stick my neck out for him.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
Oh, okay then. I was never one of the biggest fans of TSL(I have nothing against them, they're just not my favorite team - that would be slayers), but I saw them as Coach lee's team. Your vision of the team is different than mine and I respect that.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on.
i really don't see how these corrections in any way change what coach lee did. so apparently the secret camera was speculation (that should have been pretty obvious from the original thread anyways), big deal?
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
Maybe that is the truth he was forced to say this seems kind-of weird and was a bit vague the OP didn't clarify specifics.
IMO this is a cover-up or rekrul getting black mailed by Lee
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
Maybe that is the truth he was forced to say this seems kind-of weird and was a bit vague the OP didn't clarify specifics.
IMO this is a cover-up or rekrul getting black mailed by Lee
XRaDiiX, always with the conspiracy theories.
Looks like i was right in the previous thread about being a sceptic to unsubstantiated claims, i got shot down pretty bad last thread with people referencing all these so called "facts". Do people jump on all these hatetrains because the community is overall quite young or it is because everyone here really likes the drama? Take everything with a huge grain of salt and move on.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on.
Do you have any idea what "blind fanboyism" even means? Because I am not a band-wagon hopping person or a fair weather fan that makes me a blind fanboy? You realize we are posting on Team Liquid right? The same site where some guy gets a fan club because he can cover an entire map in creep.
Should Laker fans have stopped supporting their team when Kobe raped a woman? Or Raven fans when Ray Lewis was suspected of murder? What about Penn State fans, students and alumni? Should they stop supporting their university because the figurehead of the entire school knowingly harbored a child molester?
All I'm saying is I'm not going to stop supporting my favorite Starcraft team just because Coach Lee is a dick. I wasn't some kind of concierge to the team like Virgil was. For the second time none of my posts have anything to do with him lol.
On January 20 2012 16:01 MrSkyfire wrote: I dont believe this. Rekrul has reputation for always being right. I think what happened is Lee read korean version and is blackmailing people again. Isnt spunky doing poker? or in the past sometime? Lee probably blackmailing him saying that 'if I go down, you go down too' (cuz gambling illegal) and spunky tell rekrul to take down post so he doesnt wind up in shit. Why would rekrul post half assed apology so fast and get post delete so quick? It doesnt make sense unless blackmailed.
Maybe that is the truth he was forced to say this seems kind-of weird and was a bit vague the OP didn't clarify specifics.
IMO this is a cover-up or rekrul getting black mailed by Lee
XRaDiiX, always with the conspiracy theories.
Looks like i was right in the previous thread about being a sceptic to unsubstantiated claims, i got shot down pretty bad last thread with people referencing all these so called "facts". Do people jump on all these hatetrains because the community is overall quite young or it is because everyone here really likes the drama? Take everything with a huge grain of salt and move on.
Everybody seems to love the drama. Add in the people who like to have strong opinions on a game they are too scared to play and we get this
On January 20 2012 15:37 dmnum wrote: [quote] You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on.
Do you have any idea what "blind fanboyism" even means? Because I am not a band-wagon hopping person or a fair weather fan that makes me a blind fanboy? You realize we are posting on Team Liquid right? The same site where some guy gets a fan club because he can cover an entire map in creep.
Should Laker fans have stopped supporting their team when Kobe raped a woman? Or Raven fans when Ray Lewis was suspected of murder? What about Penn State fans, students and alumni? Should they stop supporting their university because the figurehead of the entire school knowingly harbored a child molester?
All I'm saying is I'm not going to stop supporting my favorite Starcraft team just because Coach Lee is a dick. I wasn't some kind of concierge to the team like Virgil was. For the second time none of my posts have anything to do with him lol.
I just re-read your post. "Blind fanboyism" is not the right term. Apologies for that. Just so I'm understanding your position better, you will remain a fan of TSL regardless of their players, management, negative press surrounding their team right? So you're basically a fan of the team TSL and not necessarily their substance or the make up of the team right?
I would say fair points on your analogies but the only problem is that those are highly developed situations. The history isn't just kobe bryant and his rape trial doesn't threaten the teams very existence.
I have a few things to say, just wanted to get a better understanding of your position before we engage in a discussion.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on.
Do you have any idea what "blind fanboyism" even means? Because I am not a band-wagon hopping person or a fair weather fan that makes me a blind fanboy? You realize we are posting on Team Liquid right? The same site where some guy gets a fan club because he can cover an entire map in creep.
Should Laker fans have stopped supporting their team when Kobe raped a woman? Or Raven fans when Ray Lewis was suspected of murder? What about Penn State fans, students and alumni? Should they stop supporting their university because the figurehead of the entire school knowingly harbored a child molester?
All I'm saying is I'm not going to stop supporting my favorite Starcraft team just because Coach Lee is a dick. I wasn't some kind of concierge to the team like Virgil was. For the second time none of my posts have anything to do with him lol.
I just re-read your post. "Blind fanboyism" is not the right term. Apologies for that. Just so I'm understanding your position better, you will remain a fan of TSL regardless of their players, management, negative press surrounding their team right? So you're basically a fan of the team TSL and not necessarily their substance or the make up of the team right?
Isn't that how it normally works? I'm from Chicago and am 23, so I watched the second set of the Bulls' three-peat. They are still my favorite NBA team even though nobody from that era is still on the team or apart of it (with the exception of the owner who ran that team into the ground anyways).
TSL's original players (Tester dominating the beta, Cliiiiiiiiiiide, Fruitdealer's cinderella GSL run, Sangho doing Nexus first builds in GSL2) are what made me cheer for the team in the first place, but they're all gone now. Being a spectator of a sport isn't fun unless you have a team to follow. Keeping up on transactions, paying attention to players in the Korean weeklies, Code A qualifiers etc. There will always be something that connects present TSL to past TSL. Revival is still on the team who was apart of their original GSTL teams. Revival will play in the GSTL with these new guys, and when / if Revival leaves some of those guys will be left. There is an entire new set of players I will get to know and watch this season, and some of those guys will be around when new players join and old players leave. That's how it works.
Wasn't there some blog posted a while ago that was linked in a GSTL write up about why it's fun to follow a team instead of individual players? Try finding that and read it, then maybe you will understand why I feel the way I do.
I trust Rekrul, but I doubted his sources for some of the details - so, not too surprising. Phew, at least esports hasn't come to the level of insanity which would have been to do that hit-me-on-hidden-cam stuff.
Not sure what to think of TSL coach now, except that he's clearly made already some massive bad reputation behind the scenes. On SotG it was mentioned that there's even more unrevealed dirt, whether it's also just rumour or not. At the very least, the guy doesn't manage to be likable and many people who know him claim very bad things about him, it seems.
This latest retraction, with the word libel being used, certainly make this more interesting. Can only speculate about the heat the poor OP got today about it.
Thank you for the post though, IMO it was brave and strong and needed.
Some awesome SC2 reporter who lives in Korea is going to have to get down the bottom of this one. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, e-sports doesn't need and can't afford to have such aggressive relations between its players and coaches.
On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote: either you A) like rekrul B) like Coach Lee C) don't care. Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C.
You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
I think many people confuse me for the average TSL fan. I had a fairly personal relationship with the coach as a person, not as the coach of TSL. After these revelations, should they be true, I feel that the Coach Lee I knew as a friend is not actually who he really is. In that sense, no, I will not be supporting the TSL coach, as the hard times brought upon my favorite team came from faults within him. I think it's easy to look at the situation saying that he was trying to do what's best for the team, no matter the cost. However, I think he lost sight of the team as a bond between the coach and the individual players.
The main point I was trying to make with my post is that for all the hard work I put into trying to defend my friends honor before the angry mob of TeamLiquid users, it turned out he was not the man he portrayed himself as. I hope you can see how it would be a little hard to continue to wish to stick my neck out for him.
dont worry im sure everyone knows you're more than the average TSL fan.
Meh, sure it doesn't change the fact that Coach Lee is a hypocrite, but it's certainly not a huge scandal anymore. It's not a soap opera conspiracy drama, rather it's become an anecdote about that one time when this one guy was a bit of a dick.
While Rekrul has been a reliable source in the past, and by all means can probably still be considered as such, the original story was an angry rant from a guy who heard it from a guy. No matter the source, a little care should still be taken before mooring hearsay as fact.
That's all from captain hindsight! Away!
Major props on coming clean by the way. Can't say for sure I would have had the balls to do the same.
On January 20 2012 15:37 dmnum wrote: [quote] You should go back and read virgil's post.
I can't see your point because you did not make any.
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
I think many people confuse me for the average TSL fan. I had a fairly personal relationship with the coach as a person, not as the coach of TSL. After these revelations, should they be true, I feel that the Coach Lee I knew as a friend is not actually who he really is. In that sense, no, I will not be supporting the TSL coach, as the hard times brought upon my favorite team came from faults within him. I think it's easy to look at the situation saying that he was trying to do what's best for the team, no matter the cost. However, I think he lost sight of the team as a bond between the coach and the individual players.
The main point I was trying to make with my post is that for all the hard work I put into trying to defend my friends honor before the angry mob of TeamLiquid users, it turned out he was not the man he portrayed himself as. I hope you can see how it would be a little hard to continue to wish to stick my neck out for him.
dont worry im sure everyone knows you're more than the average TSL fan.
All in all im dissapointed, first post was a really heavy hitter, describing Lee as backstabbing individual, literally worst person in sc2 industry. Now its just like a missed punch. "Lee is just hypocritical". Eh.... Seriously.
On January 20 2012 16:17 dmnum wrote: [quote] You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now.
Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists.
Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow.
I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players.
"The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia
TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan.
Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat.
Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests.
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
edit: worded poorly the first time
Yeah, but will you still support coach lee?
My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone.
How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support.
You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on.
Do you have any idea what "blind fanboyism" even means? Because I am not a band-wagon hopping person or a fair weather fan that makes me a blind fanboy? You realize we are posting on Team Liquid right? The same site where some guy gets a fan club because he can cover an entire map in creep.
Should Laker fans have stopped supporting their team when Kobe raped a woman? Or Raven fans when Ray Lewis was suspected of murder? What about Penn State fans, students and alumni? Should they stop supporting their university because the figurehead of the entire school knowingly harbored a child molester?
All I'm saying is I'm not going to stop supporting my favorite Starcraft team just because Coach Lee is a dick. I wasn't some kind of concierge to the team like Virgil was. For the second time none of my posts have anything to do with him lol.
I just re-read your post. "Blind fanboyism" is not the right term. Apologies for that. Just so I'm understanding your position better, you will remain a fan of TSL regardless of their players, management, negative press surrounding their team right? So you're basically a fan of the team TSL and not necessarily their substance or the make up of the team right?
Isn't that how it normally works? I'm from Chicago and am 23, so I watched the second set of the Bulls' three-peat. They are still my favorite NBA team even though nobody from that era is still on the team or apart of it (with the exception of the owner who ran that team into the ground anyways).
TSL's original players (Tester dominating the beta, Cliiiiiiiiiiide, Fruitdealer's cinderella GSL run, Sangho doing Nexus first builds in GSL2) are what made me cheer for the team in the first place, but they're all gone now. Being a spectator of a sport isn't fun unless you have a team to follow. Keeping up on transactions, paying attention to players in the Korean weeklies, Code A qualifiers etc. There will always be something that connects present TSL to past TSL. Revival is still on the team who was apart of their original GSTL teams. Revival will play in the GSTL with these new guys, and when / if Revival leaves some of those guys will be left. There is an entire new set of players I will get to know and watch this season, and some of those guys will be around when new players join and old players leave. That's how it works.
Wasn't there some blog posted a while ago that was linked in a GSTL write up about why it's fun to follow a team instead of individual players? Try finding that and read it, then maybe you will understand why I feel the way I do.
Your position makes a ton more sense, what really confused me was this post from you:
I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
I interpreted that entire post as your continued support for Coach Lee. That was my mistake.
Seem like you are I aren't that different when it comes to sports, I'm also a huge fan of the NBA. I got really in the sc2 scene because I wanted to get better at laddering and because the of the lockout. Now that the NBA's back, I'm trying to balance time between the two because of how much fun I had getting to know the pro/competitive scene. My favorite team is the Spurs. Not sure if you are aware of our situation, but I spent all of last season pulling out my hair cause Popovich refused to play Splitter and insisted on Bonner for 20+ minutes a game. Bonner is probably worse than Scalabrine (Threw his name in so maybe you can relate.) The playoffs were the worse, getting dominated by Randolph, m Gasol (and even Darell Arthur). Even though our championship hopes are probably over, I'm still a loyal fan so I can certain relate/appreciate your position.
BUT.. I don't think we're at a point where we can compare infant teams like TSL those in the NBA (or any long standing professional teams for that matter.) Kobe Bryants rape trial crushes his own image, not the Lakers. The Lakers have too rich of a history for something like that to harm them. Coach Lees fuck up will likely end their team all-together. They'll have a difficult time keeping and recruiting players, maintaining sponsorships, garnering enough fan support as long as Lee is there. Even if they remove Lee, its serves them best to change their name and have a fresh start, so the brand of TSL will likely change too.
So while I understand the notion of rooting for the team, I don't see the motivation behind staying with a sinking team. As much as you want to brush off the Coach Lee situation as "too bad for him but I'm still with TSL.." Coach Lee is TSL and his reputation is going to affect the outcome of that team. I don't think their foundation is strong enough to withstand all the damage that's been done. That's just my 2 cents.
It seemed quite unlikely for the points 1 and 2 of the original story to be were accurate, but apparently critical thinking goes out of the window when someone has "100% accuracy"
On January 20 2012 17:55 yosisoy wrote: Like anyone with their head connected to their body would take everything you originally wrote in the thread seriously without any proof.
Nice to see you're apologizing, though. We all do and say stupid shit sometimes.
Pretty much this, although please do take better care. Turbulent times like these should be addressed as delicately as possible.
hm, this "correction" doesnt really contradict any of what u wrote previously 1. "desperatly" or not, matter of perspective, irrelevant really for me 2. you did not say the camera thing was a fact, u said u heard it, and not from Spunky, it could be true or false 3. iirc u wrote, they said "they would go back if they could" this doesnt mean they were being blackmailed, i didnt get that impression at all
So idontknow what's this big apology about, anyone with common sense could read what you wrote and understand what it was saying
Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing.
On January 20 2012 18:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing.
lol? what kind of shady conduct? i thought all of that was sorted out with FD&Tester appologies? Even Rekrul said those informations are incorrect in response to Monster's translated post. Edit: god damn, hate it when people delete their post
On January 20 2012 18:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing.
lol? what kind of shady conduct? i thought all of that was sorted out with FD&Tester appologies? Even Rekrul said those informations are incorrect in response to Monster's translated post. Edit: god damn, hate it when people delete their post
Em if memory serves to summarise - Lee moved into the oGs house, then signed FD + Tester to contracts under their nose, and alleged that he had hidden cameras in the hope of blackmailing an understandably angry Spunky. Rekrul withdrew some of these allegations with this thread and said the thread was borderline libelous so I'm only repeating them here in the interests of getting you up to speed.
I think the drama in this case was buried with apologies from FD and Tester, either for the good of the nascent scene or perhaps genuinely hatchets had been buried. I believe it has resurfaced as a counterbalance to much of the 'oh but Coach Lee is such a good guy' on the Alive related threads.
well, all i can say is that it seems that theres a lot of bullshit going around at the moment, and everyone seems to be scared to speak up for fear of 'damaging esports' the spreading of rumors and the withdrawal of them soon after is whats damaging esports.
I did not see the original thread which has now been deleted by Rekul. But is there any shred of truth in anything (I gather) that Rekul said? I just wonder how Virgil could be shaken if these are all false?
TSL was my favourite team but all my favorite players left TSL now
KillerShin I initially intended on just sitting on the sidelines, but I know how it feels to be the victim of a witch hunt like what that person (Coach Lee) is currently going through so I'm writing this. I hope people would realize that the post written about that person is full of misunderstandings and the truth has been distorted. I can bet my pitiful gamer life that that person is not like that.
Killer was also the victim of a witch hunt when people accused him of being part of the match fixing scandal. That's what he means in the first sentence.
On January 20 2012 19:10 Clefairy wrote: KillerShin I initially intended on just sitting on the sidelines, but I know how it feels to be the victim of a witch hunt like what that person (Coach Lee) is currently going through so I'm writing this. I hope people would realize that the post written about that person is full of misunderstandings and the truth has been distorted. I can bet my pitiful gamer life that that person is not like that.
Killer was also the victim of a witch hunt when people accused him of being part of the match fixing scandal. That's what he means in the first sentence.
That's why I was doubtful of the claims, despite the fact that Sangho left the team. He was adamantly behind Coach Lee following the Puma scandal and the subsequent Fruitdealer and Trickster accusations.
On January 20 2012 19:10 Clefairy wrote: KillerShin I initially intended on just sitting on the sidelines, but I know how it feels to be the victim of a witch hunt like what that person (Coach Lee) is currently going through so I'm writing this. I hope people would realize that the post written about that person is full of misunderstandings and the truth has been distorted. I can bet my pitiful gamer life that that person is not like that.
Killer was also the victim of a witch hunt when people accused him of being part of the match fixing scandal. That's what he means in the first sentence.
it think Sangho would be a more reliable source. Need more opinion of people from the Korean's pro scene. Edit: Sangho has a 2nd twitt about it i think (google translate), some one translate it plss
On January 20 2012 16:13 GreyKnight wrote: this fiasco shows more about how this community is a dog on a leash than coach lee being a hypocrite
I second this. I don't take sides here, but this discussion is a farce. Because somebody is more respected than others he does not need to bring up any sources for his theories? I don't get that logic.
There has to be something between scientific work and babblemouthing.
KillerShin When everyone curses you, you eventually get used to it. However, for that person's friends and family it feels like being stabbed in the heart. Even if you can take the cursing, it's impossible to take in the sight of friends and family suffering because of it. Please refrain from one sided criticism and cursing.
On January 20 2012 19:10 Clefairy wrote: KillerShin I initially intended on just sitting on the sidelines, but I know how it feels to be the victim of a witch hunt like what that person (Coach Lee) is currently going through so I'm writing this. I hope people would realize that the post written about that person is full of misunderstandings and the truth has been distorted. I can bet my pitiful gamer life that that person is not like that.
Killer was also the victim of a witch hunt when people accused him of being part of the match fixing scandal. That's what he means in the first sentence.
Killer offers another side to the story. Obviously should be taken into consideration as it adds more detail to the situation. Lee is still at a heavy disadvantage so we'll have to wait for more details.
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote: Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
Yea well I didn't like that Rekrul said bullshit. WTF rekrul?
Edit: I can't overturn bans (only admins can) but they should obviously all be reversed.
Edit 2: It's not something I typically do. Just trusted Rekrul since he has a 100% success rate previous to this. People with no history here won't understand it and it's easy to say told you so. Anyways, sorry about that.
Fair play to Chill, can't fault him on that. I hope this horrible situation a dies a very quick death, no matter how terrible Coach Lee is I don't want to see the integrity of TL.net damaged.
Virgil, seems to be one of the few winners to come out of this mess:
On January 20 2012 15:09 VirgilSC2 wrote: I had intended this to be a blog, but apparently this didn't belong in the blogs section and in here instead.
I'm writing this mostly for myself, as I'd like to express my thoughts on the entire situation in some form, however I've been asked by a few people to share my views as I've been one of the more vocal TSL supporters on the site as of late. Don't expect this to be thoroughly proofread as my news posts are, as I want to spill words out and then be done with it. As a friend, the entire situation has not only shaken my views on Coach Lee as a person, but as a leader as well.
That being said, it's not hard to know I'm a big TSL fan and supporter if you spend a decent amount of time around here. I tend to pride myself on knowing many things about the TSL team, and it was very considerate of Coach Lee to allow me to be the one releasing things to the public. As I am not a speaker of the Korean language however, I should have realized that the information I received was not only limited by the amount of interaction between the two languages, but by professionalism as well. I constantly got updates behind the scenes on my favorite team, sure, but I was a little blinded simply by the nature of our interaction. With the recent revelation by Rekrul, which I have no reason to believe is false, and no evidence pointing to the contrary, my whole view on TSL, not as a team of players, but as a group held together by what I once thought was the infallible Coach Lee has been shaken at the foundation.
When I at first heard news that there was a possibility of a partnership between Fnatic and TSL, I was very excited. It would mean that I might have a chance to see more of my favorite players at international events as well as helping the team bolster it's already weakened roster. I was happy to see Rain back in the TSL house, training for the Code A qualifiers and things seemed to be going well. Shortly thereafter, I was privileged enough to learn the identity of a new TSL player, which excited me very much for the upcoming GSTL, so much that I penned a BroodWar-esque hype thread for TSL. Mere hours after I had written it, however, the clouds began to darken as news was passed to me about the situation involving the Fnatic translator and the failure of the TSL/Fnatic partnership. At this point I think it's important to remind you that my information all came from the TSL side of things, and as a fan I was extremely angry and disappointed with Fnatic. In the same timespan, I also found out about Fnatic signing Moon, and while I was happy that Moon had finally found a team for Starcraft 2, I was upset that it was Fnatic, as I felt I could no longer support anyone from the organization including players.
Fast forward a few days, and the Fnatic hype video for Moon is revealed and I did an extremely rash and unprofessional thing confirming not only that the player in question WAS Moon, but also that aLive had left for Fnatic (keep in mind I only had the TSL information at this point). After Fnatics announcement of Moon, many people began to doubt my information (despite the fact that by then aLive's name had been removed from the TSL roster and his Twitter had changed). I knew it was only a matter of time before someone spoke out at the aLive/TSL/Fnatic debacle. I happened to be sitting at my computer as the news broke, and spent the next few hours fiercely defending my friend from other forum-goers. I even went as far as to insinuate that ToD, a Fnatic player, was misinformed and that Fnatic had, in fact, wronged TSL. Shortly thereafter, Fnatic released their statement, and while somewhat vaguely worded, it began to call into question my belief in the information I had received.
Shortly after , I received news (not from Coach Lee, but a source that will remain anonymous) that another TSL Player, Heart had left the team. This has since been refuted by Coach Lee, but he has not been able to clarify the situation, or why the e-mail I had seen would exist. Furthermore, upon discussion with other forum-goers someone on TeamLiquid told me to "update my signature" as Heart had also left the team (something I did not think should have been released publicly at the time). I kept acting to defend Coach Lee, as more and more people began to harshly criticize him and say hurtful things about my friend which I knew he was silently reading. I went to sleep last night slightly depressed about the whole situation.
I woke up this morning, and came across Rekrul's revelation about the situation involving Coach Lee, oGsSpunky, TesteR and Fruitdealer. I will say that never have I been that speechless in my life. Knowing Rekrul to be an extremely reliable source, I was not only extremely shocked that the Coach Lee I knew could do something like that, but also continue to act as he did in situations like the PuMa/EG deal and this current debacle. I could perhaps have fully understood if the situation had occurred and Coach Lee perhaps repented and changed his ways, but the more I looked at it, and analyzed it I couldn't force myself to believe he had.
I would like to first apologize to anyone I may have offended with comments regarding TSL and/or their remarks about Coach Lee. I don't think I said anything particularly insulting, but if I did, I apologize. Furthermore, I would also like to state that I'm not turning against my friend Coach Lee. Perhaps TT1 and I have different views on life, but I never think it's a good idea to give anyone the "blackbook 4 life" treatment. I am certainly willing to give him a second chance should he accept responsibility for what he may or may not have done, and I think the community should be willing to do the same.
On another note, this has been an eye-opening experience to me. Recently, I have taken on a very public and official role as a Team Manager, and I have realized that when trying to interface with the community in a professional way, there's not room to also have super-fanboyish tendencies. While I will still cheer for my favorite players from the team, I won't be expressing it nearly as much or as often simply because I plan to busy myself with other facets of eSports. As such, in the future I will not only be working harder to better my own team, and help my own extremely talented and hard-working players succeed, but to also bring more content from my contacts in the Korean scene to the foreign eye. I hope you will all join me in supporting my players at Team Clash in the times to come.
That thread was hilarious, I assumed it was all to bait some ridiculous replies out of some TL users and referred to that in my reply. Just like a typical Rekrul post you need to read between the lines.
hopefully Sangho, who was directly involved with Coach Lee, can give us some correct details, instead of someone who admittedly heard "through the grapevine" with lots of hate
And I seriously dont see what karma has to do with the situation here. So Lee was bad, he poached FD/Tester, he got what he deserved. But that doesnt mean hes not allowed to voice his disagreement if EG/aLive were supposedly in the wrong.
On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.
Actually, it is to a large degree. And they're quite open about it, e.g. 10 Commandments - "This is our house", "Thou shall respect forum veterans", etc.
If they were open about it then they wouldn't have closed the thread. Hopefully TL learns a tough lesson.
On January 20 2012 19:56 vanhio wrote: Surprise, surprise ... Im glad killer tweet that !
If all of these turned out to be false, then it would be just another typical TSL drama. Coach Lee get shitted on at the beginning and he turned out to be a good guy at the end.
I don't see the big deal at all. The thread was about the irony of an obvious poacher (this hasn't changed at all, he just isn't a desperate poacher anymore) playing the victim and calling out others on poaching. Like others said the picture of Coach Lee remains unchanged, it's just Rekruls (and to a minor extent TLs moderation crew) integrity that is mildly tarnished by this inaccurracy. Not sure wether deleting the thread helps with that.
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
Good thing this happened. I hope people now realize you should never blindly trust someone when he's telling about stuff he hasn't witnessed himself, however trustworthy that someone (has proven) to be. It was quite shocking to me to see people who voiced some reasonable concerns in the previous thread (e.g., 'who are your sources?') got burnt down harshly by many, including mods. It seems these people overvalue someone's "status" (online, mind you. doesn't mean all that much anyway) a bit too much. Burning someone's opinion solely based on post count is equally ridiculous, but that's a different subject ^_^
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
Maybe its just bad PR. He wants to maximize team profits but he does it in an inexperienced way which backfires.
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
Uh.. in both circumstances, Coach Lee was pissed. With Puma after Puma talked to him. He didn't know anything after Puma's NASL victory until Puma told him. Then he was pissed.
In the aLive case, he got pissed when he found out that aLive had spoken with Fnatic behind his back.
If it's anything, he's just guilty of being extremely hypocritical and quick to jump to conclusions (and in the process making a mountain out of a molehill).
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
Uh.. in both circumstances, Coach Lee was pissed. With Puma after Puma talked to him. He didn't know anything after Puma's NASL victory until Puma told him. Then he was pissed.
In the aLive case, he got pissed when he found out that aLive had spoken with Fnatic behind his back.
If it's anything, he's just guilty of being extremely hypocritical and quick to jump to conclusions (and in the process making a mountain out of a molehill).
Exactly, the point of rekrul's posts were to point out lee's hypocrisy. That's why he named the previous thread "The pot calling the kettle black."
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
There are a lot of possibilities, hes bi-polar, two-faced, afraid to face his players with his true feelings, the players lied about Lee's reaction, or he had a sudden change of heart but decided to goto the media instead of talking with the people involved. Who knows? There are definitely more reasons, but very few of them paint Lee in a positive light.
What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
I think the diference is that the story really didn't change that much. The biggest issue, and the reason for the name of the old thread unless I'm missing something, was the fact that Lee aproached FD and Tester behind oGs' manager back and then later made a huge uphoar everytime another team did the same to him. The thing with the camera was always a little bit over the top, and the details about his stay at the oGs house and the players feelings about the switch do lessen the "wrongness" about the situation, but don't change the overall message. He should have done what he claims every other team should do regarding his players, or at least not create so much drama every time. If the story turned out to be completelly false, I believe the reaction would be diferent.
On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote: What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote: What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
I think the diference is that the story really didn't change that much.
The fact that overall story doesn't change does not make what he did any less wrong- still doesn't change the fact that rekrul used the "floating rumors" to create a false accusation of someone. Although I'm not sure if which story of his is true any more.
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
There are a lot of possibilities, hes bi-polar, two-faced, afraid to face his players with his true feelings, the players lied about Lee's reaction, or he had a sudden change of heart but decided to goto the media instead of talking with the people involved. Who knows? There are definitely more reasons, but very few of them paint Lee in a positive light.
Why are you so invested in painting Lee in a bad light? You're one of the most active posters that's anti Lee in both this and the original thread. I'm not defending the guy but i just can't understand why you care enough to argue about this over and over when there's still mostly hearsay and rumors going around.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
No, it could have been completely different, people wouldn't have bashed Lee as bad they have. Sure, he was hyprocrite with all these players transfering lately but what Rekrul did was not only showing that, but he was also painting a very bad picture of Lee as a PERSON. Edit: In short, his post was no different than "Coach Lee is hyprocrite, and he's a jerk. I don't have any evidence but my angry friend told me so it should be true"
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
First of all, I'm not defending Coach lee.
All I'm saying is person A made several accusations about person B, finding out some of the accusations were nothing but rumors.
In his original post, he presented all these accusations as facts. Whether he never intended to misinform us or not, he accused someone of things that never happened. If you are fine with someone making fictional accusations as long as some of them are true, we have nothing to talk about.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
Bolded the key word. It's still just a one-sided story with no evidence and people would be wise to treat it as such, which the existence of this thread proves.
On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote: I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
There are a lot of possibilities, hes bi-polar, two-faced, afraid to face his players with his true feelings, the players lied about Lee's reaction, or he had a sudden change of heart but decided to goto the media instead of talking with the people involved. Who knows? There are definitely more reasons, but very few of them paint Lee in a positive light.
Why are you so invested in painting Lee in a bad light? You're one of the most active posters that's anti Lee in both this and the original thread. I'm not defending the guy but i just can't understand why you care enough to argue about this over and over when there's still mostly hearsay and rumors going around.
Because I currently have the time to do so. Soon I'll be too busy to stay active so I'm doing that now.
You can consider me an anti-Lee and until proven otherwise I'll remain this way. This guy tried to sabotage PuMas deal and now hes trying screw over aLive. I'm painting Lee with my observations, that happens to be negative, and if I have the time to share it, I will.
Btw, going to sleep soon I'll catch you tomorrow Karpo!
On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote: What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines.
Rekrul wrote it a s private person and not in name of Teamliquid, so it is not journalism since it was not a official news.
You're no better in creating horrible threads then any other Sc2 General Poster. Spreading false stuff like you did is pretty disgusting and I hope a simple apology makes up for it for Coach Lee (allthough this guy is still a douchebag).
i dont think people get it. if someone reports that savior was matchfixing but also randomly throws in he forced people at gunpoint to throw games for drama your saying the story is the same?
I wanted to sit this one out, but I know what it feels like to be witch-hunted so I'm speaking up. All the writings about him are all misunderstandings and truth-twisted words. I swear to my professional gaming life that he is not such a man as they describe him to be.
I'm not saying Rekrul made a false accusation or Lee is as clean as a bleached white bedsheet. What I'm saying is that everyone would do well to remember that this is not an official news site, but rather a public forum where one's opinion is all that matters.
On January 20 2012 22:07 jellyjello wrote: Translating Killer's tweet:
I wanted to sit this one out, but I know what it feels like to be witch-hunted so I'm speaking up. All the writings about him are all misunderstandings and truth-twisted words. I swear to my professional gaming life that he is not such a man as they describe him to be.
I'm not saying Rekrul made a false accusation or Lee is as clean as a bleached white bedsheet. What I'm saying is that everyone would do well to remember that this is not an official news site, but rather a public forum where one's opinion is all that matters.
But.. but.. This is Rekrul and his opinion is.. uhh.. i don't known anymore _______________
On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote: What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines.
Rekrul wrote it a s private person and not in name of Teamliquid, so it is not journalism since it was not a official news.
You don't get it, do you? TL is not an official news organization no matter who posts it. It's just a place where SC2 lovers can get together over internet. Just because someone "private" posted something doesn't make it an absolute truth.
On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote: I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...
Except it was deleted
HE fixed it at his OWN will (edit: he got TL to delete the whole thing), not the mods deleting randomly. He realized he messed up, and posted incorrect information.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
Bolded the key word. It's still just a one-sided story with no evidence and people would be wise to treat it as such, which the existence of this thread proves.
The only part that have no evidences is the part with a camera. That's it. Everything else does. How hard is that to understand?
And obviously the part talking about is personality is an opinion... everyone knew that already. Do you ask for proof when someone tell you that he dislikes a band?
Oh and Killer aka Sangho about the match fixing scandal , he was accused for match fixing with the likes of savior and co , hence why he related this scenario of coach lee being the bad guy to his accusation of being a match fixer .
More details about the accusation when Sangho was interviewed can be found here .
So now do people understand why believing everything you hear, even when spoken by "reputable sources" right off the bat, with zero evidence, is a bad thing.? Glad this was cleared up, and still even puts a negative tone on Coach Lee. But Honestly I don't give a shit about the drama people want to stir up. I'd rather just watch the games and enjoy myself. I'll let you all try to drag each-other down, even though we're all working towards the same goal.
Yeah I don't see how this changes the story. Everything you had to "clarify" couldn't have ever be proven anyway and sounded more like opinion/speculation to begin with, and as smart listeners, we should have taken them as such. I guess we live in a world where you have to state the obvious. Given the original and revised stories, Lee still looks like a hypocritical asshole.
On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote: What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines.
Rekrul wrote it a s private person and not in name of Teamliquid, so it is not journalism since it was not a official news.
You don't get it, do you? TL is not an official news organization no matter who posts it. It's just a place where SC2 lovers can get together over internet. Just because someone "private" posted something doesn't make it an absolute truth.
Oh and why do you think Le goes bogus when it is just a random forum where private ppl post if there is now truth in it? ^^
This is why people were upset when the original thread was snotty, offensive, and anybody who raised concerns got bashed for challenging what you said.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
You can call exaggerating whatever you want, but it's a type of lying, it's a false statement.
Oh yeah, let's get into a philosophical debate about THE TRUTH. Inaccurate statements = lies = person is a liar etc. So is everyone else since it has been shown that the average person lies about 200 times a day.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
On January 20 2012 21:50 turamn wrote: So what Rekrul meant to say was, Sorry I was really really drunk and said some stuff I didn't mean...can I take it back? Cool...thanks!
Really? Seems to me that the story is the same, just some of the details are not true. The overall story is the exact same as before though.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
We already know for a fact that he is monitoring is players computer and logging conversation that they have on skype... and since those logging program are not just logging skype conversation normally, I would guess that he pretty much log everything. So, we already know that he is a shady character that would do those type of things, even if the camera thing is true or not.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
Learn to read, he didn't say the person he talked to told him that coach Lee directly telling him that, it was FD/Tester, considering they're living in the same house, it's a possibility. Though whether it's true or not, it's not that obvious.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
We already know for a fact that he is monitoring is players computer and logging conversation that they have on skype... and since those logging program are not just logging skype conversation normally, I would guess that he pretty much log everything. So, we already know that he is a shady character that would do those type of things, even if the camera thing is true or not.
You do know that companies do this all the time on company computers. It's not shady, it's commonly used by employers to protect themselves.
And this is why you shouldn't take anything as fact, regardless of who's saying it, until you have actual proof from multiple independent sources. You could risk ruining someone's career over hearsay and misunderstandings.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
I'm sorry? You're joking right...? You can say "omg its obvious from the beginning" that it was going to be hearsay, but in a post where long time TL posters and admins defend/support Rekrul's statement, state that unless someone with evidence can prove otherwise, that what he said should be taken as the truth, i don't see how telling us now that that specific portion was obviously hearsay is a logical conclusion. If you think such then you're either biased, or stupid.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
Learn to read, he didn't say the person he talked to told him that coach Lee directly telling him that, it was FD/Tester, considering they're living in the same house, it's a possibility. Though whether it's true or not, it's not that obvious.
That's exactly what I said. "hearsay from the players." Players = FD and tester. I'm going to stop talking to you now cause I'm really tired.
Thanks for the initial news, and thanks for being honest with the additional info. You the man Rekrul
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
Bolded the key word. It's still just a one-sided story with no evidence and people would be wise to treat it as such, which the existence of this thread proves.
The only part that have no evidences is the part with a camera. That's it. Everything else does. How hard is that to understand?
And obviously the part talking about is personality is an opinion... everyone knew that already. Do you ask for proof when someone tell you that he dislikes a band?
There's no evidence(as of now) that Lee 'stole' FD/Tester, just that they left oGs and teamed up with Lee. Rekrul gave his version of what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if Lee has a different view on it.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
I'm sorry? You're joking right...? You can say "omg its obvious from the beginning" that it was going to be hearsay, but in a post where long time TL posters and admins defend/support Rekrul's statement, state that unless someone with evidence can prove otherwise, that what he said should be taken as the truth, i don't see how telling us now that that specific portion was obviously hearsay is a logical conclusion. If you think such then you're either biased, or stupid.
It is obvious hearsay. In what realist situation could he have ever gotten proof of that? Please explain it to me? If you can without doing major mental gymnastics, I'll say you are right
Yeah... Problem now is that the story isn't "Lee is being pretty hypocritical when it comes to complaining about having his players stolen, given that this was how he got his top players in the first place," to "OMG IS LEE SUPER EVIL OR IS REEKRUL?"
For me it doesn't change that much at all. I still think that what he did is unforgivable. And its all him destroying his reputation by causing problems.
But still thanks for the new info. I still agree with you Rekrul and still as mad respect to you for giving us the information.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
We already know for a fact that he is monitoring is players computer and logging conversation that they have on skype... and since those logging program are not just logging skype conversation normally, I would guess that he pretty much log everything. So, we already know that he is a shady character that would do those type of things, even if the camera thing is true or not.
You do know that companies do this all the time on company computers. It's not shady, it's commonly used by employers to protect themselves.
Monitoring your internet usage, making sure that no one is using your connection to download and upload illegal shit, sure.
Monitoring personnal skype/email/msn/etc is shady. And it was not on working hours, it was at night. He is living there, so Lee was pretty much monitoring aLive personnal computer, not is working computer, at this time.
I'm an IT/Network technician... I do monitor internet USAGE and bandwith usage, etc... but e-mail/skype/instant messaging... no way.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
The only things that are "hear say" are the camera incident and the only incorrect thing is Coach Lees financial status when he was hanging out at Ogs' place. Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. The fact that he poached players and later blamed everyone else for foul play whenever anything closely similar happened remains? Rekrul apologized for these (fairly minor imo) inaccuracies and since they reflect badly on his own reputation I assume he had the Op deleted. For someone fighting in the name of reason you sure jump to some weird conclusions.
Both sure overexagerate the story (and probably were meant to) but they don't change the big picture at all. In fact, they change the often overlooked picture which is how we view Lee as a person. Sure Lee does some shady stuff, tries to grab players behind spunky's back but throw in blackmail (the camera thing) into the picture and no one will probably ever trust him again.
We already know for a fact that he is monitoring is players computer and logging conversation that they have on skype... and since those logging program are not just logging skype conversation normally, I would guess that he pretty much log everything. So, we already know that he is a shady character that would do those type of things, even if the camera thing is true or not.
You do know that companies do this all the time on company computers. It's not shady, it's commonly used by employers to protect themselves.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
You can call exaggerating whatever you want, but it's a type of lying, it's a false statement.
Oh yeah, let's get into a philosophical debate about THE TRUTH. Inaccurate statements = lies = person is a liar etc. So is everyone else since it has been shown that the average person lies about 200 times a day.
You dont really get the point. Admins said in the last thread something along the lines of "take everything rekrul says as unbiased truth" when it turns out it wasnt at all anything close to that, and there were some biased bans because of it. No need to keep white knighting rekrul, he knows he did wrong trying to get his point across and apologized, and his point still stands, and chill also made a statement about the bans earlier as well.
There's no such thing as unbiased truth when you are that emotionally involved. anyway i saw a post like this coming from miles away when i saw the original thread. People love to bandwagon and get their pitchforks.
No Admin ever said such a thing. There's another "lie" for you to get upset about. It was Chill, who is a moderator, not an admin, who made the "getting tired of warning, accept it as truth unless you can prove otherwise" statement. Also he retracted this very statement just minutes later. The admins just stated that Rekrul is a very reliable source and has been 100% correct so far.
And the bans were almost exclusively for how some people voiced their doubts. In fact Kennigits first post started with something along the lines of "people are being reasonably doubtful but Rek has been right so far etc". Many posters voiced similar concerns and were not warned or anything.
And as long as you are a subject, your "truth" will always be subjective, so there.
Well, this is a pretty ridiculous thing to do. If you took the time to remake the post ~24 hours later and apologize, it would've been simpler for you to inform yourself correctly before making the initial post.
It was defended harshly by admins and veterans yesterday as fact and, apology or not, leading people astray from hearsay that you didn't even verify is not really acceptable IMO. It wasn't posted as actual news on TL so that's the only saving grace here but it's no secret that TL endorsed the post.
We've had bad translations from members before that caused problems and I took their apology because it was a clear mistake and he wasn't a staff/half-staff member being backed by admins. You might get more privileges on the site being who you are, but you also have more responsibilities when making such a post. I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose, but it will have a lasting effect on TSL/Lee.
I'm happy I don't care about this drama, because at this point it's all too shady to follow logically.
On January 20 2012 17:26 AndysRaulSioux wrote: Safe to say that I'll never believe another post by Rekrul again. Sigh, this sc2 drama is so bad...
Rekrul is pretty reliable as as source. But this time he was quite emotionally involved, he has been in every coach lee related things ever since TSL was created.
I don't get how this discredits rekrul? He is just saying that some of the stuff he says can't be PROVEN and some of the stuff might have been exaggerated... He didn't lie...
He doesn't have to lie. But basing his "facts" on rumors (some part of it, and don't say it doesn't matter, cause the rumors part affected Lee's reputation as a person) especially when its a matter that can affect the accused career is a serious thing.
I'm sorry but it was obvious from the beginning that "video cameras" and "recording devices" would have to be hearsay from the players. Coach Lee did not run up to Rekrul and say "muhahahaha I plant camera camera see see!!!"
If you took that as guaranteed fact and now realize that it may or may not be true, then you are stupid.
I'm sorry? You're joking right...? You can say "omg its obvious from the beginning" that it was going to be hearsay, but in a post where long time TL posters and admins defend/support Rekrul's statement, state that unless someone with evidence can prove otherwise, that what he said should be taken as the truth, i don't see how telling us now that that specific portion was obviously hearsay is a logical conclusion. If you think such then you're either biased, or stupid.
It is obvious hearsay. In what realist situation could he have ever gotten proof of that? Please explain it to me? If you can without doing major mental gymnastics, I'll say you are right
wow. Straw man arguments for the win. I wasn't talking about how whether Rekrul could have gotten proof of the camera (oh i dont know, maybe someone like FD or tester could have told him for all we know) or whether we could have gotten proof of whether what Rekrul say about the camera. I was talking about the circumstances going on during the previous thread (admins/long term posters backing) that gives strength to Rekrul's statement to the point that we should all consider it as truth even if some parts of it could be considered hearsay.
Personally I don't think the previous thread should have been deleted. Maybe a disclaimer at the top would be enough. However, the stuff in the previous thread was important, even if it's "just what all the players in the scene know," it's still important information before people decide to support the team, sometimes financially.
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
When Alive left the team my friend told me "inb4 TSL is the new WeRRa" and then this all happened x.x Thanks for clearing it all up Rekrul but yeah... still not looking good for them.
I think the original thread should not have been deleted, but rather just closed. The original post exists on the internet forever now so if coach Lee wanted proof of libel it would be easy to find.
I think the original thread was deleted because the team liquid mod staff are embarrassed.
On January 20 2012 23:29 strongandbig wrote: Personally I don't think the previous thread should have been deleted. Maybe a disclaimer at the top would be enough. However, the stuff in the previous thread was important, even if it's "just what all the players in the scene know," it's still important information before people decide to support the team, sometimes financially.
Problem is that it isn't 'just what all the players in the scene know' as can be seen from Killer's tweets.
edit: or at least that there's more to it than what we've been fed.
On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote: I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...
Then maybe you should have contributed to this site for 6+ years bringing insider info from korea christ, some people.
I hope everyone doesn't think like that.There is a difference between good information and hearsay. I hope you don't become a reporter.
What? I never said anywhere he was an entirely credible source. Do you have any reading comprehension? I simply said that if you want to be treated with extreme leniency when you fuck up like rekrul, you'd need to have earned it. You're saying oh gee, i should be treated the exact same way as someone who has proved to be a valuable source of progamer gossip and hilarious stories about korean night clubs and such. He was a moderator here, and has earned the right to be treated differently, according to the TL Commandments. What you said was...ridiculously stupid. That you expect the same treatment without actually earning it shows how childish you are. edit: also its hilarious that you say I shouldn't be a reporter, when many of them inflate and put twists on whatever they report.
Hi all! I've been lurking for a couple of years, mostly enjoying my time on TL, and since I got a really bitter taste from recent events I felt I had to share it, since I would like to continue having the same quality experience here.
I read almost all of the deleted thread, and although one could say that as a whole it is a stain on TL's image (and probably evidence on the occasion this goes to court - although as other people said you can find copies of it), it should be available in closed threads as it would be a good lesson for everyone, and more importantly it would stand as a token of transparency and integrity on TL's behalf, separating TL from the inevitable mistakes its members (new and old) and/or staff make.
Just an opinion, I will be back to the shadows where I feel more comfortable.
Ps1. on the cached version of the deleted thread zeru posted earlier, I can only view the first page, the rest displays a "You do not have permission to view this thread. Click here to view the forum index.", thus making it unavailable. Ps2. No current relevant thread on Website feedback, so I post here, since in the end these are somewhat interconnected issues.
On January 21 2012 00:27 tsaliakam wrote: Hi all! I've been lurking for a couple of years, mostly enjoying my time on TL, and since I got a really bitter taste from recent events I felt I had to share it, since I would like to continue having the same quality experience here.
I read almost all of the deleted thread, and although one could say that as a whole it is a stain on TL's image (and probably evidence on the occasion this goes to court - although as other people said you can find copies of it), it should be available in closed threads as it would be a good lesson for everyone, and more importantly it would stand as a token of transparency and integrity on TL's behalf, separating TL from the inevitable mistakes its members (new and old) and/or staff make.
Just an opinion, I will be back to the shadows where I feel more comfortable.
Ps1. on the cached version of the deleted thread zeru posted earlier, I can only view the first page, the rest displays a "You do not have permission to view this thread. Click here to view the forum index.", thus making it unavailable. Ps2. No current relevant thread on Website feedback, so I post here, since in the end these are somewhat interconnected issues.
Too many noobies around in these threads that just don't understand the great Rekrul..... sigh. At least all of those retractions are cosmetic changes only, hopefully that will help the thread not to flare up so poorly again.
On January 21 2012 00:05 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: So in reality Coach Lee is a good guy and when you see him you should buy him a beer.
You've not read the original thread, then.
This does not take away from what Coach Lee did. The confrontation, the player poaching, etc, is all real. Lee is an asshole, it seems.
The "player poaching" is a one sided story from the same biased source. We don't know the interactions between Lee, FD, SKS when TSL was created. There was nothing about TSL player poaching around the time it was created. Those (made up?) rumors came much later.
Why aren't you active in oGs anymore? Me and Wonki wanted to relax and enjoy games. Being in a team environment was nice but both of us wanted to really enjoy SC2 and leagues. For the purpose of more freedom, I left the team with Wonki, we are now living together.
The player poaching story resurfaced because Lee has demonstrated himself to be a hypocrite and has cried wolf twice now. Look at the OP, the second retraction was over the video cameras speculation, not refuting Spunky's (oGs coach) confrontation. Think about this for a second, Rekrul obviously got his fact-checked by Lee or someone close to him, why did "Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back" remained? Because it happened. This was widely known in the Korean circles, even reaffirmed by Monster (a Korean player) in the deleted thread.
Player transfers happen, and most of the times amicably. Even in the worst cases, like what happened a while back with Stephano, they get resolved in reasonable terms. Lee has demonstrated himself unable to act maturely multiple times now, consistently failed to negotiate proper terms and intentionally harm his former players' future homes. That's hurting eSports.
On January 21 2012 00:36 zz_ wrote: Okay, so not as nuts of a guy as we thought, but still pretty shady and definitely hypocritical. Still think TSL is off way better without him.
yeah i agree. I just cant help feeling bad for the players! Just imagine them sitting there playing all day and knowing what a douche bag he really is! Like i wouldn't feel comfortable playing there or having him by my side coaching me when he acts like he does.... Just sad and i hope the players are ok...
On January 21 2012 00:27 tsaliakam wrote: Hi all! I've been lurking for a couple of years, mostly enjoying my time on TL, and since I got a really bitter taste from recent events I felt I had to share it, since I would like to continue having the same quality experience here.
I read almost all of the deleted thread, and although one could say that as a whole it is a stain on TL's image (and probably evidence on the occasion this goes to court - although as other people said you can find copies of it), it should be available in closed threads as it would be a good lesson for everyone, and more importantly it would stand as a token of transparency and integrity on TL's behalf, separating TL from the inevitable mistakes its members (new and old) and/or staff make.
Just an opinion, I will be back to the shadows where I feel more comfortable.
Ps1. on the cached version of the deleted thread zeru posted earlier, I can only view the first page, the rest displays a "You do not have permission to view this thread. Click here to view the forum index.", thus making it unavailable. Ps2. No current relevant thread on Website feedback, so I post here, since in the end these are somewhat interconnected issues.
I'll just clarify that we very very rarely delete information off of TL. And if we have deleted a thread it is for a very good reason, the thread in question is no exception.
On January 21 2012 00:39 Fyrewolf wrote: Too many noobies around in these threads that just don't understand the great Rekrul..... sigh. At least all of those retractions are cosmetic changes only, hopefully that will help the thread not to flare up so poorly again.
Pot calling the kettle black? But I guess you were a long-time lurker.
It never became drama because Spunky isn't a drama queen like Lee, which is exactly what we're pointing out.
Milkis' translation of the Monster tweet was lost, but here's a mirror of the original tweets from reddit. Roughly:
Someone (MONsterY) posted on PlayXP that Coach Lee threatened Trickster, FruitDealer, and Coach Won at Startale to put up that apology note. Coach Lee blackmailed using the fact that they bet on sports betting site and if there's no apology note he will get journalists to publish articles about it.
They did a false apology because they didn't want any kind of scandal like that.
Also, apparently Coach Lee was congratulating Puma up to the very last day Puma was still at TSL, and then the second Puma left Coach Lee put those articles up.
Maybe, but they're the best third party sources we have available. With Monster and Rekrul, we now have multiple sources regarding Lee's behind the scene behavior. We also have multiple public statements and actions of how Lee acts against other parties (EG, SC2CON, Alive).
Remember, TL is not a court of law and we are not triers of fact. There never has been extraordinary demands for evidence, just sufficient reliable ones. We have shamed people publicly with less. Obviously, this is not a good habit of TL, but for this circumstance, there're enough out now for each of us to make our own personal judgements.
On January 21 2012 01:03 Primadog wrote: Maybe, but they're the best third party sources we have available. With Monster and Rekrul, we now have multiple sources regarding Lee's behind the scene behavior.
Well, this just makes the story more confusing. If I were to believe the previous thread and think that Coach Lee is diabolical then it's certainly possible that this thread is a result of his manipulations.
I think I'll just choose to believe that you are indeed honorable and I was right in thinking that if what you said in the other thread turned out to be wrong that you would own up to it.
On January 21 2012 01:13 Primadog wrote: It's easy for us from the SC2 generation to forget, but Rekrul is one of the few Foreigners Pro-gamers from BW, and very much trusted within the community. His stories are worth a read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=22425
Sangho lives WTHIN the progaming scene, so that background doesn't give him any more edge than what he's having now
On January 20 2012 13:50 tree.hugger wrote: Pretty sure this doesn't change any part of the story, except the fact that Coach Lee also isn't a mad scientist.
On January 21 2012 00:27 tsaliakam wrote: Hi all! I've been lurking for a couple of years, mostly enjoying my time on TL, and since I got a really bitter taste from recent events I felt I had to share it, since I would like to continue having the same quality experience here.
I read almost all of the deleted thread, and although one could say that as a whole it is a stain on TL's image (and probably evidence on the occasion this goes to court - although as other people said you can find copies of it), it should be available in closed threads as it would be a good lesson for everyone, and more importantly it would stand as a token of transparency and integrity on TL's behalf, separating TL from the inevitable mistakes its members (new and old) and/or staff make.
Just an opinion, I will be back to the shadows where I feel more comfortable.
Ps1. on the cached version of the deleted thread zeru posted earlier, I can only view the first page, the rest displays a "You do not have permission to view this thread. Click here to view the forum index.", thus making it unavailable. Ps2. No current relevant thread on Website feedback, so I post here, since in the end these are somewhat interconnected issues.
I'll just clarify that we very very rarely delete information off of TL. And if we have deleted a thread it is for a very good reason, the thread in question is no exception.
Would you clarify the reason the thread was deleted?
On January 21 2012 01:03 Primadog wrote: Maybe, but they're the best third party sources we have available. With Monster and Rekrul, we now have multiple sources regarding Lee's behind the scene behavior. We also have multiple public statements and actions of how Lee acts against other parties (EG, FD/Tester nonpayment, Alive).
Remember, TL is not a court of law and we are not triers of fact. There never has been extraordinary demands for evidence, just sufficient reliable ones. We have shamed people publicly with less. Obviously, this is not a good habit of TL, but for this circumstance, there're enough out now for each of us to make our own personal judgements.
FD/Tester Drama Conclusion <- do people not remember this? Lee was the one who was staying cool during all this, and FD/Tester/Coach Won lied/believed eachothers lies/rumors/made up stories. Sangho on all this
There's always more than 1 side to a story.
Every single one of the listed dramas ended with public shaming of his former players. Aren't you troubled? What's more likely, his players consistently conspires to screw him over, or that he's a dick?
There are no doubt that Lee is a good coach. He has a solid BW resume, and proofed himself in raising and finding talent, but a good coach does not necessitate a good businessmen, or even a good person. He has demonstrated to play poorly when he felt threatened - against Spunky, against EG/Puma, against FD/Tester, against Fnatics/Alive (and probably the NASL boycott too) - in short, unsportsman-like conducts. Even worse, he has been alleged to consistently dealt in threats, blackmails, and acts of public and media humiliation.
He may had built up TSL, but his actions also are killing it. The result is in the pudding - of TSL's founding members, only RevivaL remains. Wanna wait to see how long before RevivaL leaves too?
On January 21 2012 01:03 Primadog wrote: Maybe, but they're the best third party sources we have available. With Monster and Rekrul, we now have multiple sources regarding Lee's behind the scene behavior. We also have multiple public statements and actions of how Lee acts against other parties (EG, FD/Tester nonpayment, Alive).
Remember, TL is not a court of law and we are not triers of fact. There never has been extraordinary demands for evidence, just sufficient reliable ones. We have shamed people publicly with less. Obviously, this is not a good habit of TL, but for this circumstance, there're enough out now for each of us to make our own personal judgements.
FD/Tester Drama Conclusion <- do people not remember this? Lee was the one who was staying cool during all this, and FD/Tester/Coach Won lied/believed eachothers lies/rumors/made up stories. Sangho on all this
There's always more than 1 side to a story.
Every single one of the listed dramas ended with public shaming of his former players. Aren't you troubled? What's more likely, his players consistently conspires to screw him over, or that he's a dick?
There are no doubt that Lee is a good coach. He has a solid BW resume, and demonstrated himself in raising and finding talent, but a good coach does not necessitate him as a good businessmen, or even a good person. He has demonstrated to play poorly when he felt threatened - against Spunky, against EG/Puma, against FD/Tester, against Fnatics/Alive (and probably the NASL boycott too) - in short, unsportsman-like conducts. Even worse, he has been alleged to consistently dealt in threats, blackmails, and acts of public and media humiliation.
He may had built up TSL, but his actions also are killing it. The result is in the pudding - of TSL's founding members, only RevivaL remains. Wanna wait to see how long before RevivaL leaves too?
This is just an example, but if say revival is going to leave TSL in 3 months, we (Rekrul's thread) turn it into 1 month...
On January 21 2012 01:27 Femari wrote: So apparently yet again Lee was made out to look like a bad guy but it was completely wrong.
Well this is a surprise.
Actually not wrong. The main premise, that Lee poached players then hypocritically railed against those who did it to him, is still correct.
I really wish TL could wait for Lee's side of the story instead of convicting him based off of a post whose content has been partially based off of rumors.
On January 20 2012 16:12 Subversive wrote: A politician was sued in the UK for posting a defamatory tweet about his opponent. Sued for about 30K pounds iirc. Definitely counts as published in a fair few countries. Just because this is tl and not a news site doesn't make a difference :p.
Of course, British libel law is hardly as respectable a standard as the pound sterling.
I... don't really get what you're trying to imply here. He was right to sue. His opponent had claimed he was tampering with ballots or something outrageous. He took it down, but that's hardly the point. He slandered his opponent on the day of actual voting - this is an example of British libel law being appropriate.
On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote: I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...
Then maybe you should have contributed to this site for 6+ years bringing insider info from korea christ, some people.
I hope everyone doesn't think like that.There is a difference between good information and hearsay. I hope you don't become a reporter.
What? I never said anywhere he was an entirely credible source. Do you have any reading comprehension? I simply said that if you want to be treated with extreme leniency when you fuck up like rekrul, you'd need to have earned it. You're saying oh gee, i should be treated the exact same way as someone who has proved to be a valuable source of progamer gossip and hilarious stories about korean night clubs and such. He was a moderator here, and has earned the right to be treated differently, according to the TL Commandments. What you said was...ridiculously stupid. That you expect the same treatment without actually earning it shows how childish you are. edit: also its hilarious that you say I shouldn't be a reporter, when many of them inflate and put twists on whatever they report.
YES, The reason he gets to post stuff is because he has been contributing forever... and ALL of his contributions are usually valid... This particular thread was all hearsay and caused a lot of drama where there was nothing to back it. It MAY be true and MAY not be... but you can't just post whatever you want and perceive it as true. People will believe you (like most of TL did)
I am implying that it was silly to make that particular post, TL and Rekrul obviously agree since they took it down.
Thanks for clearing it up Rekrul, though I'm somewhat confused. If I remember correctly, didn't you imply in the first thread that the whole camera thing was a speculation from the get go and not a provable fact?
On January 21 2012 01:27 Femari wrote: So apparently yet again Lee was made out to look like a bad guy but it was completely wrong.
Well this is a surprise.
Actually not wrong. The main premise, that Lee poached players then hypocritically railed against those who did it to him, is still correct.
I really wish TL could wait for Lee's side of the story instead of convicting him based off of a post whose content has been partially based off of rumors.
My point was that despite the details that really villainized Lee being rumors or exaggeration, the main premise didn't change. He is still accused of being a hypocrite who has poached players himself.
This is why you don't jump on the band wagon when someone says X about Y. Withhold your judgements until everything is made clear, rather than when its all just a few wild speculations.
No disrespect to Rekrul (despite not knowing who he is), he's obviously well respected on TL, but even he can receive false information, or maybe even intentionally lie. Not calling him out on it, everyone can and everybody lies. Like I said, dont be so hasty to get your pitchforks out in the future.
On January 21 2012 01:27 Femari wrote: So apparently yet again Lee was made out to look like a bad guy but it was completely wrong.
Well this is a surprise.
Actually not wrong. The main premise, that Lee poached players then hypocritically railed against those who did it to him, is still correct.
I really wish TL could wait for Lee's side of the story instead of convicting him based off of a post whose content has been partially based off of rumors.
My point was that despite the details that really villainized Lee being rumors or exaggeration, the main premise didn't change. He is still accused of being a hypocrite who has poached players himself.
Which could be completely made up as no one actually knows how it went down, and you are all relying on rekruls biased word to be true. Tester/FD left ogs in august, tsl was created in october, just for reference. There were never any bad rumors about Lee, how TSL was made, until rekrul came with them during the Puma transaction. FD/trickters reason for leaving ogs were related to how hard they were forced to practice according to interviews back then. Salaries werent introduced to TSL until 2011 either. There's nothing that indicates that Lee poached any players in any way.
On January 21 2012 01:27 Femari wrote: So apparently yet again Lee was made out to look like a bad guy but it was completely wrong.
Well this is a surprise.
Actually not wrong. The main premise, that Lee poached players then hypocritically railed against those who did it to him, is still correct.
I really wish TL could wait for Lee's side of the story instead of convicting him based off of a post whose content has been partially based off of rumors.
My point was that despite the details that really villainized Lee being rumors or exaggeration, the main premise didn't change. He is still accused of being a hypocrite who has poached players himself.
Which could be completely made up as no one actually knows how it went down, and you are all relying on rekruls biased word to be true. Tester/FD left ogs in august, tsl was created in october, just for reference. There were never any bad rumors about Lee, how TSL was made, until rekrul came with them during the Puma transaction. FD/trickters reason for leaving ogs were related to how hard they were forced to practice according to interviews back then. Salaries werent introduced to TSL until 2011 either. There's nothing that indicates that Lee poached any players in any way.
On January 21 2012 01:27 Femari wrote: So apparently yet again Lee was made out to look like a bad guy but it was completely wrong.
Well this is a surprise.
Actually not wrong. The main premise, that Lee poached players then hypocritically railed against those who did it to him, is still correct.
I really wish TL could wait for Lee's side of the story instead of convicting him based off of a post whose content has been partially based off of rumors.
My point was that despite the details that really villainized Lee being rumors or exaggeration, the main premise didn't change. He is still accused of being a hypocrite who has poached players himself.
Which could be completely made up as no one actually knows how it went down, and you are all relying on rekruls biased word to be true. Tester/FD left ogs in august, tsl was created in october, just for reference. There were never any bad rumors about Lee, how TSL was made, until rekrul came with them during the Puma transaction. FD/trickters reason for leaving ogs were related to how hard they were forced to practice according to interviews back then. Salaries werent introduced to TSL until 2011 either. There's nothing that indicates that Lee poached any players in any way.
Ah 2 weeks isn't much. Also the salary thing isn't relevant is it, because the claim is the offer was that they could keep 100% of their tournament winnings, no?
how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
We are fans. You should check out how much worse things get in other sports.
Poor Coach Lee, in this context. I wasn't able to follow the original thread, as I was busy earlier and now it got deleted, but how did Rekrul come to realize this errors? Did Coach Lee contact him?
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
People are missing the important part in all this:
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
We are fans. You should check out how much worse things get in other sports.
He is right tho. If you dont have anything to add to the topic beside your humble opinion, why dont you just it keep to your self ? Ppl most likely wont give a crap besides obvious trolls who try to steer up even more drama and derail the thread. If you have new informations feel free to add them but if all you gonna say is something like "rekrul dropping the knowledge" or "i never changed my view about Lee" chances are, you are just posting for the sake of posting.
Mods should be much strikter regarding these cases but most of them post needless 1 liners too.
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
We are fans. You should check out how much worse things get in other sports.
He is right tho. If you dont have anything to add to the topic beside your humble opinion, why dont you just it keep to your self ? Ppl most likely wont give a crap besides obvious trolls who try to steer up even more drama and derail the thread. If you have new informations feel free to add them but if all you gonna say is something like "rekrul dropping the knowledge" or "i never changed my view about Lee" chances are, you are just posting for the sake of posting.
Mods should be much strikter regarding these cases but most of them post needless 1 liners too.
This thread is more like a conversation than an official news source. Rekrul isn't a journalist, obviously, and none of this may even be true.
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
We are fans. You should check out how much worse things get in other sports.
He is right tho. If you dont have anything to add to the topic beside your humble opinion, why dont you just it keep to your self ? Ppl most likely wont give a crap besides obvious trolls who try to steer up even more drama and derail the thread. If you have new informations feel free to add them but if all you gonna say is something like "rekrul dropping the knowledge" or "i never changed my view about Lee" chances are, you are just posting for the sake of posting.
Mods should be much strikter regarding these cases but most of them post needless 1 liners too.
I'm usually all for people who post less often here, but geez, you two are ridiculous. 20ish pages, at 20 posts a page makes a mere 400 posts on this. Versus the tens of thousands of people who post on these forums.
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
We are fans. You should check out how much worse things get in other sports.
He is right tho. If you dont have anything to add to the topic beside your humble opinion, why dont you just it keep to your self ? Ppl most likely wont give a crap besides obvious trolls who try to steer up even more drama and derail the thread. If you have new informations feel free to add them but if all you gonna say is something like "rekrul dropping the knowledge" or "i never changed my view about Lee" chances are, you are just posting for the sake of posting.
Mods should be much strikter regarding these cases but most of them post needless 1 liners too.
This thread is more like a conversation than an official news source. Rekrul isn't a journalist, obviously, and none of this may even be true.
A good time to remember that nobody in Anglosphere eSports are. As far as I know, only Chobopeon majored in Journalism.
On January 21 2012 02:17 copacetic wrote: how has this gone on for 21 pages? all you guys have no relationship/connection with Coach Lee and the players involved, it has absolutely no affect on your lives at all. Starcraft drama is fun to read about, but you guys are all acting like your 2cents means something.. it doesnt. Move along now unless you have real info about the situation at hand, you guys really shouldnt be posting again and again saying the same shit about "what u think of Coach Lee", you have NO idea who this guy is
On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote: I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...
Then maybe you should have contributed to this site for 6+ years bringing insider info from korea christ, some people.
I hope everyone doesn't think like that.There is a difference between good information and hearsay. I hope you don't become a reporter.
What? I never said anywhere he was an entirely credible source. Do you have any reading comprehension? I simply said that if you want to be treated with extreme leniency when you fuck up like rekrul, you'd need to have earned it. You're saying oh gee, i should be treated the exact same way as someone who has proved to be a valuable source of progamer gossip and hilarious stories about korean night clubs and such. He was a moderator here, and has earned the right to be treated differently, according to the TL Commandments. What you said was...ridiculously stupid. That you expect the same treatment without actually earning it shows how childish you are. edit: also its hilarious that you say I shouldn't be a reporter, when many of them inflate and put twists on whatever they report.
YES, The reason he gets to post stuff is because he has been contributing forever... and ALL of his contributions are usually valid... This particular thread was all hearsay and caused a lot of drama where there was nothing to back it. It MAY be true and MAY not be... but you can't just post whatever you want and perceive it as true. People will believe you (like most of TL did)
I am implying that it was silly to make that particular post, TL and Rekrul obviously agree since they took it down.
Have a good day.
What you are implying is irrelevant. Whether or not rekrul was right to do what he did is also irrelevant. When i made that post, I made it to respond to only one sentence. "I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...".
I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated:
1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though.
2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine.
3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL.
Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation.
Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
That's not true. A lot were critical and skeptical of Rekrul's info, but they were mocked by others saying lol noob, don't know bw history and were warned and banned by mods saying Rekrul is never wrong.
ya i didnt believe everything Rekrul posted. I was Bashed for not sideing with him because he is "rekrul". He NEVER post anything that isnt 100% true. IF he posts it, thats what happend end of story, dont even try to say otherwise or we will stone you to death.
[QUOTE]On January 20 2012 14:36 Biane wrote: [QUOTE]On January 20 2012 14:33 DrunkenTemplar wrote: [QUOTE]On January 20 2012 14:31 StyLeD wrote: [QUOTE]On January 20 2012 14:29 DrunkenTemplar wrote: [QUOTE]On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote: You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess.[/QUOTE]
Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect
Edit: lol double words [/QUOTE]
Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine". [/QUOTE]
About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him.[/QUOTE]
On January 21 2012 00:39 Fyrewolf wrote: Too many noobies around in these threads that just don't understand the great Rekrul..... sigh. At least all of those retractions are cosmetic changes only, hopefully that will help the thread not to flare up so poorly again.
Pot calling the kettle black? But I guess you were a long-time lurker.
Indeed, I lurked TL for what feels like forever before I actually took the time to join. I've played Starcraft since comsat cost 75 energy and have lurked since about mid 2003, yet despite that didn't join until just before you did lol
On January 20 2012 22:10 Utinni wrote: I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...
Then maybe you should have contributed to this site for 6+ years bringing insider info from korea christ, some people.
I hope everyone doesn't think like that.There is a difference between good information and hearsay. I hope you don't become a reporter.
What? I never said anywhere he was an entirely credible source. Do you have any reading comprehension? I simply said that if you want to be treated with extreme leniency when you fuck up like rekrul, you'd need to have earned it. You're saying oh gee, i should be treated the exact same way as someone who has proved to be a valuable source of progamer gossip and hilarious stories about korean night clubs and such. He was a moderator here, and has earned the right to be treated differently, according to the TL Commandments. What you said was...ridiculously stupid. That you expect the same treatment without actually earning it shows how childish you are. edit: also its hilarious that you say I shouldn't be a reporter, when many of them inflate and put twists on whatever they report.
YES, The reason he gets to post stuff is because he has been contributing forever... and ALL of his contributions are usually valid... This particular thread was all hearsay and caused a lot of drama where there was nothing to back it. It MAY be true and MAY not be... but you can't just post whatever you want and perceive it as true. People will believe you (like most of TL did)
I am implying that it was silly to make that particular post, TL and Rekrul obviously agree since they took it down.
Have a good day.
What you are implying is irrelevant. Whether or not rekrul was right to do what he did is also irrelevant. When i made that post, I made it to respond to only one sentence. "I wish I could type whatever I wanted and get the thread to stay...".
You took things in a literal context while I was mocking his ability to write anything he wants as a thread even if it is against the rules and not proven.
Interesting. I remember a certain mod making a header at the top of the old thread saying something like "Rekrul's word is unbiased fact", and someone even got banned for saying it was wrong for that to be there. Very interesting.
On January 21 2012 06:31 BasilForSkin wrote: Interesting. I remember a certain mod making a header at the top of the old thread saying something like "Rekrul's word is unbiased fact", and someone even got banned for saying it was wrong for that to be there. Very interesting.
On January 20 2012 20:06 Plexa wrote: If anyone has an issue with any of the bans issued please PM me and I'll look into it.
It's just pretty ridiculous to post a thread like Rekrul did with such flimsy certainty that he's apologizing for it so soon afterwards. What the fuck was he thinking? Honestly, it seems to me like a lot of it was trashing on people because he "knew better" than them. Why else would you start a post like that with such SC2 trollbait.
Once you throw in all the warnings and bans for people not worshipping his shit talk, it's just an embarrassing event.
On January 21 2012 06:31 BasilForSkin wrote: Interesting. I remember a certain mod making a header at the top of the old thread saying something like "Rekrul's word is unbiased fact", and someone even got banned for saying it was wrong for that to be there. Very interesting.
Basically, instead of acting snide, if you really care about revoking any of the bans do something about it.
I don't remember who got banned exactly and the thread is deleted anyway. That certain mod knows who he banned and should probably fix it, unless he feels that the bans were justified for some other reasons.
On January 21 2012 02:42 WhiteDog wrote: All these drama makes everyone looks dumb imo. Coach Lee feels like an hypocrit, Rekrul feels likes he tried to hard to makes Lee into the bad guy...
SC2 Drama in itself is just dumb as fuck. In december it was Milkis, then it was Coca abusing, then it was naniwa's probe rush, then it was something else, now its this.
Seriously, cut this shit with the drama. It's so annoying.
On January 21 2012 02:42 WhiteDog wrote: All these drama makes everyone looks dumb imo. Coach Lee feels like an hypocrit, Rekrul feels likes he tried to hard to makes Lee into the bad guy...
SC2 Drama in itself is just dumb as fuck. In december it was Milkis, then it was Coca abusing, then it was naniwa's probe rush, then it was something else, now its this.
Seriously, cut this shit with the drama. It's so annoying.
Either get used to it or if it really annoys you that much think about ignoring the forums. Drama will always exist and will exponentially increase as starcraft 2 becomes more popular. Natural occurrence and evolution of entertainment. Why do you think the WWE is so successful, ALL their storyline are based on creating drama. I'm not saying that everyone should be watching wrestling, I'm just point out their marketing strategy.
Why do you think the hype threads have done so well for themselves? Because it creates drama. NBA/sports? = drama, TV shows = drama, etcetc. Every single form of entertainment centers around creating drama.
On January 20 2012 13:42 RAGEMOAR The Pope wrote: Glad this is getting cleared up before more rumors spread.
before..?
I think the hurt is done tbh.
Where are the people who said rekrul only told facts?
I think its very manly to be so up front with your mistakes, but this whole deal did a lot of damage to TSL/ coach lee in specific already
Ofcousre it has, because rekrul's main message still stands. Lee is still manipulative and hes still a hypocrite. The principle of his message remains.
On January 21 2012 02:42 WhiteDog wrote: All these drama makes everyone looks dumb imo. Coach Lee feels like an hypocrit, Rekrul feels likes he tried to hard to makes Lee into the bad guy...
SC2 Drama in itself is just dumb as fuck. In december it was Milkis, then it was Coca abusing, then it was naniwa's probe rush, then it was something else, now its this.
Seriously, cut this shit with the drama. It's so annoying.
Either get used to it or if it really annoys you that much think about ignoring the forums. Drama will always exist and will exponentially increase as starcraft 2 becomes more popular. Natural occurrence and evolution of entertainment. Why do you think the WWE is so successful, ALL their storyline are based on creating drama. I'm not saying that everyone should be watching wrestling, I'm just point out their marketing strategy.
Why do you think the hype threads have done so well for themselves? Because it creates drama. NBA/sports? = drama, TV shows = drama, etcetc. Every single form of entertainment centers around creating drama.
Yes, but hype threads and such are exciting. Drama is not. The drama I'm thinking of isnt even drama, its an argument that is between half and half of the SC2 community. The milkis thing, the naniwa thing, the Coca thing are all examples of this. So maybe drama is good, but the arguments that come out of it are retarded.
On January 21 2012 02:42 WhiteDog wrote: All these drama makes everyone looks dumb imo. Coach Lee feels like an hypocrit, Rekrul feels likes he tried to hard to makes Lee into the bad guy...
SC2 Drama in itself is just dumb as fuck. In december it was Milkis, then it was Coca abusing, then it was naniwa's probe rush, then it was something else, now its this.
Seriously, cut this shit with the drama. It's so annoying.
Either get used to it or if it really annoys you that much think about ignoring the forums. Drama will always exist and will exponentially increase as starcraft 2 becomes more popular. Natural occurrence and evolution of entertainment. Why do you think the WWE is so successful, ALL their storyline are based on creating drama. I'm not saying that everyone should be watching wrestling, I'm just point out their marketing strategy.
Why do you think the hype threads have done so well for themselves? Because it creates drama. NBA/sports? = drama, TV shows = drama, etcetc. Every single form of entertainment centers around creating drama.
Yes, but hype threads and such are exciting. Drama is not. The drama I'm thinking of isnt even drama, its an argument that is between half and half of the SC2 community. The milkis thing, the naniwa thing, the Coca thing are all examples of this. So maybe drama is good, but the arguments that come out of it are retarded.
Agreed ^^. Not all drama has massive appeal in terms of entertainment value. For example a lot of people find those hype threads annoying too (but me and you , we like them.)
On January 20 2012 14:26 SimDawg wrote: You know what amazes me is the first thread was extremely condescending toward all the drama in the SC2 scene.
And it was labeled Pot Calling the Kettle Black.
You couldn't ask for more perfect irony.
TL carefully distances itself from the untouchable Rekrul. Foots in all kinds of mouths.
It was fine when Rekrul gossiped about the SC1 scene he experienced first hand back in the day, but he has no real direct affiliation with SC2, except he "knows people," so he should probably just keep quiet since he knows that every schmuck, mods included, hangs on his every word. Seems abusive.
man all this strikes me as weird. i know Rek irl. i drank with Rek early last year in Kor and he told about this. he said not only did everyone know lee having a hidden camera was true, but fruitdealer admitted about it first hand to him at blizzcon. it also strikes me very as very strange Rek just all of the sudden apologizing to someone he hates...he would never ever do that unless he thought he had a really good reason to as he is one stubborn bastard ^^
On January 21 2012 10:25 pookadin wrote: Wow I really dont know what to think now Was FruitDealer really blackmailed? did the cameras exist? What else is true?
So confused by what to believe
At best, Lee is a hypocrite.
More moderately, Lee is an assholish hypocrite.
At worst, he is a mad, paranoid, controlling, assholish hypocrite.
Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/
Because TL is not fair and if you had been around for 10 years and done as much as Rekrul you could go around and do pretty much whatever the fuck you want, too.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/
You were supposed to read the Ten Commandments when you signed up, y'know.
Also, his information is still, as far as we can tell, 90-95% true.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
Careful, hes teamliquid jesus. You may still be stoned for going against him.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
This is teamliquid's house.
Obviously, but honestly what he did was libelous. He shit on a guy's reputation with false information. I've seen people banned for posting misinformation about the game, and he doesn't get banned for something that's near illegal?
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
This is teamliquid's house.
Obviously, but honestly what he did was libelous. He shit on a guy's reputation with false information. I've seen people banned for posting misinformation about the game, and he doesn't get banned for something that's near illegal?
Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
Only the people who earn it get away with things. Don't be so jealous. Its one guy who has a privileged position on a website. It doesn't affect you at all. Just move on.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
This is teamliquid's house.
Obviously, but honestly what he did was libelous. He shit on a guy's reputation with false information. I've seen people banned for posting misinformation about the game, and he doesn't get banned for something that's near illegal?
Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
A ridiculous answer. Cool, you're old school. We get it.
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
Yup, and I'm pretty sure TL likes it like that.
BTW, you won't be banned for calling them on it. Chill might have gone a little over the top in the warning, but I saw no one banned that wasn't also just being an ass.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
This is teamliquid's house.
Obviously, but honestly what he did was libelous. He shit on a guy's reputation with false information. I've seen people banned for posting misinformation about the game, and he doesn't get banned for something that's near illegal?
Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And that exact attitude that permeates Western esports is why it is stuck on neutral. There's a severe lack of professionalism and accountability.
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
Rekrul knows what he did was wrong, so why would they ban him?
Bans are only held out as punishment if "random people" keep saying w/e the fuck they want.
We all know 100% that Rekrul wont make the same mistake twice. Cant say the same for "random people".
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
lol nobody has a problem if a problematic user or PBU gets treated extra harsh, but people lose their shit if a valued member is treated more leniently
On January 21 2012 10:57 Myles wrote: Because he is Rekrul. If you can't understand and accept that now, you probably never will. So just drop it.
And people wonder why these forums aren't taken seriously. It's wayyy too much of an old boys club where certain people can do whatever the hell they want and not be punished for it while other people get banned for even calling them out on it.
The details he got wrong were pretty signifigant but even with those removed he is still guilty of the very same player stealing that he accused EG and fnatic of. Heck if what im understanding about the correction is true than the title of pot calling the kettle black still seems accurate to me.
this is the largest foreign community page for SC2, one of the biggest eSports titles, that is very strict with "regular users" but when it comes to "reliable veterans who earnt their right to be wrong", it fails even when it is serious business
On January 20 2012 13:50 tree.hugger wrote: Pretty sure this doesn't change any part of the story, except the fact that Coach Lee also isn't a mad scientist.
Yeah, I don't exactly what it changes except that we aren't sure he was not hiding camera.
On January 21 2012 10:42 holynorth wrote: Why is Rekrul not banned for this? So what he's a community celebrity. Any other forum poster would be banned for posting false information as fact and severely damaging someone's reputation. Mods even came into the thread to guarantee the truth to the information :/ This is the kind of shit that can get you arrested for saying.
This is teamliquid's house.
Obviously, but honestly what he did was libelous. He shit on a guy's reputation with false information. I've seen people banned for posting misinformation about the game, and he doesn't get banned for something that's near illegal?
People like you are what make TL less fun, just chill out rofl.
EPT
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