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I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
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On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
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Good thing this happened. I hope people now realize you should never blindly trust someone when he's telling about stuff he hasn't witnessed himself, however trustworthy that someone (has proven) to be. It was quite shocking to me to see people who voiced some reasonable concerns in the previous thread (e.g., 'who are your sources?') got burnt down harshly by many, including mods. It seems these people overvalue someone's "status" (online, mind you. doesn't mean all that much anyway) a bit too much. Burning someone's opinion solely based on post count is equally ridiculous, but that's a different subject ^_^
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On January 20 2012 20:22 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of. i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
Maybe its just bad PR. He wants to maximize team profits but he does it in an inexperienced way which backfires.
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On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of.
Uh.. in both circumstances, Coach Lee was pissed. With Puma after Puma talked to him. He didn't know anything after Puma's NASL victory until Puma told him. Then he was pissed.
In the aLive case, he got pissed when he found out that aLive had spoken with Fnatic behind his back.
If it's anything, he's just guilty of being extremely hypocritical and quick to jump to conclusions (and in the process making a mountain out of a molehill).
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On January 20 2012 20:25 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of. Uh.. in both circumstances, Coach Lee was pissed. With Puma after Puma talked to him. He didn't know anything after Puma's NASL victory until Puma told him. Then he was pissed. In the aLive case, he got pissed when he found out that aLive had spoken with Fnatic behind his back. If it's anything, he's just guilty of being extremely hypocritical and quick to jump to conclusions (and in the process making a mountain out of a molehill).
Exactly, the point of rekrul's posts were to point out lee's hypocrisy. That's why he named the previous thread "The pot calling the kettle black."
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On January 20 2012 20:22 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of. i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation.
There are a lot of possibilities, hes bi-polar, two-faced, afraid to face his players with his true feelings, the players lied about Lee's reaction, or he had a sudden change of heart but decided to goto the media instead of talking with the people involved. Who knows? There are definitely more reasons, but very few of them paint Lee in a positive light.
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Hmm.. drama is dying... so here is a twist.
For whatever it's worth, judging from Killer's tweet it looks like he is defending coach Lee's character.
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think anyone who reacted as this was truthful should be banned. dont need those types of ppl here tbh
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What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
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On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
Rekrul,
Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away.
Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations.
2 things I don't feel right about:
1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone.
2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
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On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
I think the diference is that the story really didn't change that much. The biggest issue, and the reason for the name of the old thread unless I'm missing something, was the fact that Lee aproached FD and Tester behind oGs' manager back and then later made a huge uphoar everytime another team did the same to him. The thing with the camera was always a little bit over the top, and the details about his stay at the oGs house and the players feelings about the switch do lessen the "wrongness" about the situation, but don't change the overall message. He should have done what he claims every other team should do regarding his players, or at least not create so much drama every time. If the story turned out to be completelly false, I believe the reaction would be diferent.
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On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote:
What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth.
Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
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On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else.
Exactly my thoughts.
I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
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On January 20 2012 21:35 Ilvy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:08 jellyjello wrote:
What I think is really stupid is that people are treating TL as if it's an official news organization, and taking whatever is being thrown at them as if they are the absolute truth. Just some ppl know the truth just can´t make it public without any harm, if you would be able to read between the lines you would know it
Wrong. The fact is that there are always more than one side of the story. This is where a proper journalism comes in, those who are trained and paid to perform such services, the ones that provide what we call "news". It has nothing to do with reading between the lines.
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On January 20 2012 21:33 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else. I think the diference is that the story really didn't change that much.
The fact that overall story doesn't change does not make what he did any less wrong- still doesn't change the fact that rekrul used the "floating rumors" to create a false accusation of someone. Although I'm not sure if which story of his is true any more.
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On January 20 2012 20:43 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 20:22 brachester wrote:On January 20 2012 20:18 Piledriver wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but there seems to be some fundamental integrity problems with Coach Lee, based on just the player interviews (both during the Puma incident as well as the current Alive incident).
In both the cases, the coach behaves differently and acts nicely in front of the players. For example with Puma, he even congratulated on his NASL victory and assured him that the conflicts have been resolved through talks. Then immediately the next day he releases a statement crying wolf about EG going behind his back.
In the aLive case as well, he seemed to have sweet talked with alive and said that he would let him leave once he paid the transfer fee. But the next day he turns around and does a huge press release about fnatic poaching his player, and about dragging alive to the court.
I get the feeling that he is seriously bipolar.
Edit: I'm going to reserve judgement on Sangho's tweets. There may be other factors at play here which we may not be aware of. i think something is wrong here as well. But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Why would he act nice in front of his player for anyway if he's going to release the statement like you said anyway? there's definitely something loss in translation. There are a lot of possibilities, hes bi-polar, two-faced, afraid to face his players with his true feelings, the players lied about Lee's reaction, or he had a sudden change of heart but decided to goto the media instead of talking with the people involved. Who knows? There are definitely more reasons, but very few of them paint Lee in a positive light.
Why are you so invested in painting Lee in a bad light? You're one of the most active posters that's anti Lee in both this and the original thread. I'm not defending the guy but i just can't understand why you care enough to argue about this over and over when there's still mostly hearsay and rumors going around.
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On January 20 2012 21:36 RolleMcKnolle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 21:17 fritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 13:40 Rekrul wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512(thread is now deleted)I have corrected some errors in this thread. I would like to apologize to Coach Lee for stating a few things as if they were fact when they were merely rumors floating around among the Korean Pro's. Even though I feel it is obvious that Lee is completely hypocritical in all his recent dealings with the EG/Puma situation and the Fnatic/Alive situation, in fairness I owe it to him to correct these things that were stated: 1. Lee never actually 'came to oGs desperately' to live there. He did hang out at the oGs Sook-so often during those times though. 2. While the events of that day are accurate with Spunky angrily storming into the new TSL Sook-so trying to get his players back, the stuff with the video cameras was speculation from the people at the Sook-so that day. Spunky never claimed it as a fact to me, I had just heard it through the grapevine. 3. At that time FD/Tester decided to stay with TSL on their own interest. It was actually still in their best interest financially to stay with TSL considering their situation as described in the original thread. Lee wasn't blackmailing them. They just made a stupid decision on their part and when the dust settled they said their apologies to oGs and stayed with TSL. Once again, sorry Coach Lee for spreading misinformation and causing misunderstanding and possibly harming your reputation. Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous. Rekrul, Just WOW, floating rumors but told them like you witnessed everything. Only life is this easy. Making all the accusations of someone, ruining his reputation, and calling him out on something that never happened... but next day one apology in the tread makes it all go away. Both Your orignial post and your apology are translated and posted on PlayXP (Korean SC2 community site). And Koreans seem to be apalled and upset with your haste and thoughtless accusations. 2 things I don't feel right about: 1. When someone make an accusation like rekrul- you better have all of your facts, not what you heard from your friends, or "floating rumors" should not warrant an accusation of someone. And one apology on the very next day should not get him off the hook after he made all these fictional/ false accusations about someone. 2. so far, TL commmutiny seems to "overly" kind and generous about this- "thanks for the apology, you made it all clear to me now." .... come on. I know rekrul has been a credible source for a long time but this time he pulled this out of his ass. Can't imagine if the community would react the same way if it was Milkis or someone else. Exactly my thoughts. I was wondering the whole time why almost noone was at least slightly critical about Rekruls behaviour. What basically happened is that an important person just shitted all over someone else with only hear-say-"facts". This is just insulting towards Coach Lee. And it's all done because he apologized? lol...
Are you guys fucking serious?
The story is still exactly the same. Lee still stealed those two players way back then. Lee still acted like a total hypocrite lately and Lee still used is connection with oGs to steal them without talking to their manager. The only thing that changed is the part with the camera, that is more like a rumor now, but could still be completly true. Learn to read a bit more next time, please.
If you don't get how Lee is still an hypocrite and a manipulator, i'm sorry for you.
Rekrul never intented to misinform us. He was just pissed off so much that is tone was really angry and he stated some rumors as facts by mistake. The end. The story is still exactly the same and most of is post were not rumors but facts.
And knowing how Lee printed some skype log from aLive pc, I would not be surprised if the camera thing was true, even tho it's just a rumor.
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