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Like anyone with their head connected to their body would take everything you originally wrote in the thread seriously without any proof.
Nice to see you're apologizing, though. We all do and say stupid shit sometimes.
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This latest retraction, with the word libel being used, certainly make this more interesting. Can only speculate about the heat the poor OP got today about it.
Thank you for the post though, IMO it was brave and strong and needed.
Some awesome SC2 reporter who lives in Korea is going to have to get down the bottom of this one. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, e-sports doesn't need and can't afford to have such aggressive relations between its players and coaches.
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On January 20 2012 17:06 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 16:59 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:49 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:45 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:38 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:30 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:17 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 15:44 vasculaR wrote:On January 20 2012 15:37 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 15:33 vasculaR wrote:
either you
A) like rekrul
B) like Coach Lee
C) don't care.
Any story or truths will come out but it wouldn't change your A, B or C. You should go back and read virgil's post. I can't see your point because you did not make any. You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now. Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists. Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow. I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players. "The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan. Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat. Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests. I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least). edit: worded poorly the first time Yeah, but will you still support coach lee? My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone. How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support. I think many people confuse me for the average TSL fan. I had a fairly personal relationship with the coach as a person, not as the coach of TSL. After these revelations, should they be true, I feel that the Coach Lee I knew as a friend is not actually who he really is. In that sense, no, I will not be supporting the TSL coach, as the hard times brought upon my favorite team came from faults within him. I think it's easy to look at the situation saying that he was trying to do what's best for the team, no matter the cost. However, I think he lost sight of the team as a bond between the coach and the individual players. The main point I was trying to make with my post is that for all the hard work I put into trying to defend my friends honor before the angry mob of TeamLiquid users, it turned out he was not the man he portrayed himself as. I hope you can see how it would be a little hard to continue to wish to stick my neck out for him.
dont worry im sure everyone knows you're more than the average TSL fan.
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Meh, sure it doesn't change the fact that Coach Lee is a hypocrite, but it's certainly not a huge scandal anymore. It's not a soap opera conspiracy drama, rather it's become an anecdote about that one time when this one guy was a bit of a dick.
While Rekrul has been a reliable source in the past, and by all means can probably still be considered as such, the original story was an angry rant from a guy who heard it from a guy. No matter the source, a little care should still be taken before mooring hearsay as fact.
That's all from captain hindsight! Away!
Major props on coming clean by the way. Can't say for sure I would have had the balls to do the same.
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On January 20 2012 18:04 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 17:06 VirgilSC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 16:59 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:49 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:45 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:38 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:30 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:17 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 15:44 vasculaR wrote:On January 20 2012 15:37 dmnum wrote:
[quote]
You should go back and read virgil's post. I can't see your point because you did not make any. You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now. Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists. Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow. I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players. "The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan. Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat. Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests. I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least). edit: worded poorly the first time Yeah, but will you still support coach lee? My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone. How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support. I think many people confuse me for the average TSL fan. I had a fairly personal relationship with the coach as a person, not as the coach of TSL. After these revelations, should they be true, I feel that the Coach Lee I knew as a friend is not actually who he really is. In that sense, no, I will not be supporting the TSL coach, as the hard times brought upon my favorite team came from faults within him. I think it's easy to look at the situation saying that he was trying to do what's best for the team, no matter the cost. However, I think he lost sight of the team as a bond between the coach and the individual players. The main point I was trying to make with my post is that for all the hard work I put into trying to defend my friends honor before the angry mob of TeamLiquid users, it turned out he was not the man he portrayed himself as. I hope you can see how it would be a little hard to continue to wish to stick my neck out for him. dont worry im sure everyone knows you're more than the average TSL fan.
Trollolololol O Idra...
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All in all im dissapointed, first post was a really heavy hitter, describing Lee as backstabbing individual, literally worst person in sc2 industry. Now its just like a missed punch. "Lee is just hypocritical". Eh.... Seriously.
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On January 20 2012 17:43 CuSToM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 17:29 Angelbelow wrote:On January 20 2012 17:19 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 17:08 Angelbelow wrote:On January 20 2012 16:59 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:49 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:45 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:38 dmnum wrote:On January 20 2012 16:30 CuSToM wrote:On January 20 2012 16:17 dmnum wrote:
[quote]
You said any stories coming up wouldn't change people's opinion regarding coach lee. I told you to read virgil's post. You clearly didn't, otherwise you would have seen that Virgil, as he stated in his post in this thread, was a huge fan of TSL and a friend of coach lee's. After these two threads he has said that he can no longer support TSL because of the shady stuff going behind the scenes. I hope the point got across now. Well you shouldn't let one person speak for everybody. I will be staying up until 3 AM to watch TSL in the GSTL and its players in the GSL until the team no longer exists. Just because the coach / manager of the team turns out to not be a patron saint doesn't mean I am going to forget about the past year and a half I have spent staying up and cheering for TSL, and then put all the Starcraft II teams names into a hat and pick a new team to follow. I think the reason virgil "doesn't support" TSL anymore has nothing to with players. "The Team SCV Life (TSL) is a top Korean StarCraft 2 team. It was founded by former MBC Heroes coach Lee Woon Jae.[1]" - From liquipedia TSL was based highly around the figure of coach lee, and now that these things are turning up and assuming he resignes, the team needs to change it's name, for better or for worse. Either way, as soon as coach lee is no longer associated with the team I think virgil will go back to being TSL(Or whatever new name they may adapt)#1 fan. Edit: Virgil just posted. Glad I understood what he meant all along, otherwise I would look like giant asshat. Okay you missed my point. I don't care what Virgil wrote or how he feels about the team because it has nothing to do with my interests. I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least). edit: worded poorly the first time Yeah, but will you still support coach lee? My attraction to TSL had nothing to do with Coach Lee, I originally started following the team because of Tester. Tester left and went to a different team but that didn't change anything for me, even though the reason I supported the team in the first place was gone. How do you support a team but not the coach? What does that even mean? Do I question his decisions in GSTL and complain about him in live report threads? When a player leaves his team am I happy that Coach Lee lost them, even though a player left my favorite team? How do I protest against Coach Lee but still support my favorite team? If Coach Lee left TSL, fine. If all of the players on the team left TSL and Coach Lee acquired a new roster, fine. As long as Team SCV Life is a functioning organization (in some capacity since the argument can be made that isn't the case right now) they will remain the team I support. You are the definition of "Blind fanboyism." But if your fine with that and willing to admit it, then by all means, cheer on. Do you have any idea what "blind fanboyism" even means? Because I am not a band-wagon hopping person or a fair weather fan that makes me a blind fanboy? You realize we are posting on Team Liquid right? The same site where some guy gets a fan club because he can cover an entire map in creep. Should Laker fans have stopped supporting their team when Kobe raped a woman? Or Raven fans when Ray Lewis was suspected of murder? What about Penn State fans, students and alumni? Should they stop supporting their university because the figurehead of the entire school knowingly harbored a child molester? All I'm saying is I'm not going to stop supporting my favorite Starcraft team just because Coach Lee is a dick. I wasn't some kind of concierge to the team like Virgil was. For the second time none of my posts have anything to do with him lol. I just re-read your post. "Blind fanboyism" is not the right term. Apologies for that. Just so I'm understanding your position better, you will remain a fan of TSL regardless of their players, management, negative press surrounding their team right? So you're basically a fan of the team TSL and not necessarily their substance or the make up of the team right? Isn't that how it normally works? I'm from Chicago and am 23, so I watched the second set of the Bulls' three-peat. They are still my favorite NBA team even though nobody from that era is still on the team or apart of it (with the exception of the owner who ran that team into the ground anyways). TSL's original players (Tester dominating the beta, Cliiiiiiiiiiide, Fruitdealer's cinderella GSL run, Sangho doing Nexus first builds in GSL2) are what made me cheer for the team in the first place, but they're all gone now. Being a spectator of a sport isn't fun unless you have a team to follow. Keeping up on transactions, paying attention to players in the Korean weeklies, Code A qualifiers etc. There will always be something that connects present TSL to past TSL. Revival is still on the team who was apart of their original GSTL teams. Revival will play in the GSTL with these new guys, and when / if Revival leaves some of those guys will be left. There is an entire new set of players I will get to know and watch this season, and some of those guys will be around when new players join and old players leave. That's how it works. Wasn't there some blog posted a while ago that was linked in a GSTL write up about why it's fun to follow a team instead of individual players? Try finding that and read it, then maybe you will understand why I feel the way I do.
Your position makes a ton more sense, what really confused me was this post from you:
+ Show Spoiler +I was simply agreeing with the point that guy said about "you either like Coach Lee, like Rekrul, or don't care and you will continue to feel that way when this is all over". You said that wasn't the case because of a blog somebody wrote, which isn't true (for me at least).
I interpreted that entire post as your continued support for Coach Lee. That was my mistake.
Seem like you are I aren't that different when it comes to sports, I'm also a huge fan of the NBA. I got really in the sc2 scene because I wanted to get better at laddering and because the of the lockout. Now that the NBA's back, I'm trying to balance time between the two because of how much fun I had getting to know the pro/competitive scene. My favorite team is the Spurs. Not sure if you are aware of our situation, but I spent all of last season pulling out my hair cause Popovich refused to play Splitter and insisted on Bonner for 20+ minutes a game. Bonner is probably worse than Scalabrine (Threw his name in so maybe you can relate.) The playoffs were the worse, getting dominated by Randolph, m Gasol (and even Darell Arthur). Even though our championship hopes are probably over, I'm still a loyal fan so I can certain relate/appreciate your position.
BUT.. I don't think we're at a point where we can compare infant teams like TSL those in the NBA (or any long standing professional teams for that matter.) Kobe Bryants rape trial crushes his own image, not the Lakers. The Lakers have too rich of a history for something like that to harm them. Coach Lees fuck up will likely end their team all-together. They'll have a difficult time keeping and recruiting players, maintaining sponsorships, garnering enough fan support as long as Lee is there. Even if they remove Lee, its serves them best to change their name and have a fresh start, so the brand of TSL will likely change too.
So while I understand the notion of rooting for the team, I don't see the motivation behind staying with a sinking team. As much as you want to brush off the Coach Lee situation as "too bad for him but I'm still with TSL.." Coach Lee is TSL and his reputation is going to affect the outcome of that team. I don't think their foundation is strong enough to withstand all the damage that's been done. That's just my 2 cents.
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It seemed quite unlikely for the points 1 and 2 of the original story to be were accurate, but apparently critical thinking goes out of the window when someone has "100% accuracy"
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On January 20 2012 17:55 yosisoy wrote:
Like anyone with their head connected to their body would take everything you originally wrote in the thread seriously without any proof.
Nice to see you're apologizing, though. We all do and say stupid shit sometimes.
Pretty much this, although please do take better care. 
Turbulent times like these should be addressed as delicately as possible.
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So Rekrul was not 100% right this time ? Maybe even the TL mods will agree now that even gods among TL members have a error margin...
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can any one tell me what that thread was about?
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hm, this "correction" doesnt really contradict any of what u wrote previously
1. "desperatly" or not, matter of perspective, irrelevant really for me
2. you did not say the camera thing was a fact, u said u heard it, and not from Spunky, it could be true or false
3. iirc u wrote, they said "they would go back if they could" this doesnt mean they were being blackmailed, i didnt get that impression at all
So idontknow what's this big apology about, anyone with common sense could read what you wrote and understand what it was saying
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Northern Ireland27460 Posts
Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing.
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On January 20 2012 18:42 Wombat_NI wrote:
Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing.
lol? what kind of shady conduct? i thought all of that was sorted out with FD&Tester appologies? Even Rekrul said those informations are incorrect in response to Monster's translated post.
Edit: god damn, hate it when people delete their post
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I'm sure Rekrul had everyone's best intentions in mind. He was probably just mad at hypocrisy.
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On January 20 2012 18:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm sure Rekrul had everyone's best intentions in mind. He was probably just mad at hypocrisy.
Yeah stirring the pot is good intentions!
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Northern Ireland27460 Posts
On January 20 2012 18:46 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 18:42 Wombat_NI wrote:
Got to love validation. While many were falling over themselves to worship at the altar of Rekrul, and dissenters were flamed for daring to question the information's source, the fence-sitters chose to ride it out and see where it went.
This isn't a bash at Rekrul either, but more a request for a bit more skepticism when these drama threads arise. Oh and you can be skeptical without indulging in retarded speculation or pseudo-psychiatry as well.
@Brachester, basically the original thread was Rekrul posting about Coach Lee's alleged shady conduct during the early days of this game, the acquisitions of Fruitdealer and Tester and the formation of TSL, that kind of thing. lol? what kind of shady conduct? i thought all of that was sorted out with FD&Tester appologies? Even Rekrul said those informations are incorrect in response to Monster's translated post. Edit: god damn, hate it when people delete their post
Em if memory serves to summarise - Lee moved into the oGs house, then signed FD + Tester to contracts under their nose, and alleged that he had hidden cameras in the hope of blackmailing an understandably angry Spunky. Rekrul withdrew some of these allegations with this thread and said the thread was borderline libelous so I'm only repeating them here in the interests of getting you up to speed.
I think the drama in this case was buried with apologies from FD and Tester, either for the good of the nascent scene or perhaps genuinely hatchets had been buried. I believe it has resurfaced as a counterbalance to much of the 'oh but Coach Lee is such a good guy' on the Alive related threads.
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well, all i can say is that it seems that theres a lot of bullshit going around at the moment, and everyone seems to be scared to speak up for fear of 'damaging esports'
the spreading of rumors and the withdrawal of them soon after is whats damaging esports.
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I did not see the original thread which has now been deleted by Rekul. But is there any shred of truth in anything (I gather) that Rekul said? I just wonder how Virgil could be shaken if these are all false?
TSL was my favourite team but all my favorite players left TSL now 
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EPT
