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What happened in Riot's head to think that killing the home made korean scene and turning it into generic McDonald stuff was a good idea ? Also WTF did they think was going to happen if they forced every organization to fire their sister team ?!
This is starting to show why the game developer shouldn't have a monopoly on its esport scene. We lack LoL tournaments other than LCS and what do they do ? yay more LCS less other stuff, also let's completly destroy a whole scene and force players to retire/leave their home country.
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On October 28 2014 12:30 iKill[ShocK] wrote:
Can't beat Korea? Lets severely cripple their format & hope a foreign team will win next year!
This seems to be the reason IMO. Riot understands that we will never ever beat korea if things continue this way the gap should widen every year, but not if we destroy their scene and force them to play in our own league.
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I thought they would do like the old BW scene had with proleague happening each week and then a cup type tournament mixed in. That way you can easily have a ~16 team league happen weekly because even if the level of the games isn't insanely high you still got the cup type to get the excitement on the dull league weeks. Just having the boring LCS system seems awful. Cup system could even extend to a qualification of teams not within the league so if some really good rookie teams didn't quite make the cup for the league they could still show their stuff in the cup.
Just out of curiosity does American Sports not have a format like European Football of League + Cup events?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 28 2014 22:48 Numy wrote:
I thought they would do like the old BW scene had with proleague happening each week and then a cup type tournament mixed in. That way you can easily have a ~16 team league happen weekly because even if the level of the games isn't insanely high you still got the cup type to get the excitement on the dull league weeks. Just having the boring LCS system seems awful. Cup system could even extend to a qualification of teams not within the league so if some really good rookie teams didn't quite make the cup for the league they could still show their stuff in the cup.
Just out of curiosity does American Sports not have a format like European Football of League + Cup events?
Whole idea of NFL is "to prevent dynasties", and NHL/NBA/MLB just have enormously big seasons, so no place for cups there.
And MLS, is it even American Sport :D But it has bunch of cups and UCL analog there afaik.
To be completely honest, nothing really changed for Korea outside of this atrocious format and lack of possible Samsung semifinals or MiG finals, something like that.
They basically just changed the whole idea of B-teams in League, it's really B-teams now and there is almost no chance that another SKT T1 Judgement Day, KT Rolster B or Samsung Blue will appear as probably A-team in organisation.
But right now.
GET POACHED, KOREA, CHINA, ARE YOU READY.
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One concern I never really got with sister teams, is that organizers would talk about collusion, then literally take 0 steps to minimize the risk.
Like, how hard is it to write rules that modify the random draws that prevent them for on being in the same group, and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket? Not hard at all, I just did it.
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On October 28 2014 01:37 Slusher wrote:
I have no idea why the best offer chunky could get was to be a backup for fusion when guys like Jeziz are getting imported.
probably because he whines about killstealing even when he has someone like westrice, or zionspartan on his team in soloqueue
edited for typo
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On October 29 2014 01:33 cLutZ wrote:
One concern I never really got with sister teams, is that organizers would talk about collusion, then literally take 0 steps to minimize the risk.
Like, how hard is it to write rules that modify the random draws that prevent them for on being in the same group, and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket? Not hard at all, I just did it.
You can do that only if you reseed the playoff bracket after groups. In the S4WC, there was already a Group A, B, C, and D team on both sides of the bracket. You can ensure that two sister teams are not in the same group, but you cannot ensure that those sister teams are on opposite sides of the bracket without reseeding.
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As for the Korea changes, how do people know that this was even mostly Riot's fault? When these changes first leaked, people immediately jumped on the Riot hatewagon, and then those "in the know" started saying things like this:
Suddenly, everyone jumped off the Riot hatewagon onto the Kespa hatewagon. Now, we get the announcement that everyone already knew was coming, but suddenly because Riot's name is attached to the announcement, we are back on the Riot hatewagon?
If they were the primary driving force here, then just keep on with the million pitchfork march. But please, in this Wikipedia age, CITATION NEEDED.
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On October 29 2014 03:36 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 01:33 cLutZ wrote:
One concern I never really got with sister teams, is that organizers would talk about collusion, then literally take 0 steps to minimize the risk.
Like, how hard is it to write rules that modify the random draws that prevent them for on being in the same group, and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket? Not hard at all, I just did it. You can do that only if you reseed the playoff bracket after groups. In the S4WC, there was already a Group A, B, C, and D team on both sides of the bracket. You can ensure that two sister teams are not in the same group, but you cannot ensure that those sister teams are on opposite sides of the bracket without reseeding.
People already suggested that this was a good idea to do because of the possibility of White/Blue intentionally getting second to avoid the semifinals teamkill, moreover, the ONLY reason it didn't happen in groups B, D is because 2nd place in those groups was going to play Blue/White.
Reseeding after groups is the superior method anyways, so the objection is kind of silly. And random seeding/etc is equally silly because its best to do power-rank based seeding to try and get a good final...
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 29 2014 04:36 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 03:36 Takkara wrote:On October 29 2014 01:33 cLutZ wrote:
One concern I never really got with sister teams, is that organizers would talk about collusion, then literally take 0 steps to minimize the risk.
Like, how hard is it to write rules that modify the random draws that prevent them for on being in the same group, and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket? Not hard at all, I just did it. You can do that only if you reseed the playoff bracket after groups. In the S4WC, there was already a Group A, B, C, and D team on both sides of the bracket. You can ensure that two sister teams are not in the same group, but you cannot ensure that those sister teams are on opposite sides of the bracket without reseeding. People already suggested that this was a good idea to do because of the possibility of White/Blue intentionally getting second to avoid the semifinals teamkill, moreover, the ONLY reason it didn't happen in groups B, D is because 2nd place in those groups was going to play Blue/White. Reseeding after groups is the superior method anyways, so the objection is kind of silly. And random seeding/etc is equally silly because its best to do power-rank based seeding to try and get a good final...
It's not like if Blue were KT/SKT/other KeSPA org but Samsung, they couldn't be accused of matchfixing if they tried to get second in group, lol, it happens all the time, when favourites get seeded on same side of bracket.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 29 2014 04:36 cLutZ wrote:
Reseeding after groups is the superior method anyways, so the objection is kind of silly. And random seeding/etc is equally silly because its best to rig the seeding to ensure crowd-favorite Western teams get as far as possible.
Fixed.
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I mean isn't that why UEFA does bracket drawing after the group stages are done for Champions league?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 29 2014 05:08 Numy wrote:
I mean isn't that why UEFA does bracket drawing after the group stages are done for Champions league?
UEFA does bracket drawings because you can't have same countries playing each other in 1/8, so it's not even possible to make brackets before it.
+ They have separate drawings for 1/8 and for later stages.
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On October 29 2014 05:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 04:36 cLutZ wrote:
Reseeding after groups is the superior method anyways, so the objection is kind of silly. And random seeding/etc is equally silly because its best to rig the seeding to ensure crowd-favorite Western teams get as far as possible. Fixed.
Because china+korea+taiwan= 10 times bigger then the western scene. Holy shit ur a dumb.
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not sure if I'm being trolled but from an ROI standpoint for riot Chinese viewers are basically worthless
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On October 29 2014 04:56 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 04:36 cLutZ wrote:On October 29 2014 03:36 Takkara wrote:On October 29 2014 01:33 cLutZ wrote:
One concern I never really got with sister teams, is that organizers would talk about collusion, then literally take 0 steps to minimize the risk.
Like, how hard is it to write rules that modify the random draws that prevent them for on being in the same group, and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket? Not hard at all, I just did it. You can do that only if you reseed the playoff bracket after groups. In the S4WC, there was already a Group A, B, C, and D team on both sides of the bracket. You can ensure that two sister teams are not in the same group, but you cannot ensure that those sister teams are on opposite sides of the bracket without reseeding. People already suggested that this was a good idea to do because of the possibility of White/Blue intentionally getting second to avoid the semifinals teamkill, moreover, the ONLY reason it didn't happen in groups B, D is because 2nd place in those groups was going to play Blue/White. Reseeding after groups is the superior method anyways, so the objection is kind of silly. And random seeding/etc is equally silly because its best to do power-rank based seeding to try and get a good final... It's not like if Blue were KT/SKT/other KeSPA org but Samsung, they couldn't be accused of matchfixing if they tried to get second in group, lol, it happens all the time, when favourites get seeded on same side of bracket.
No, it would just be tanking then. Not matchfixing, but the point is the same in favor of re-seeding after groups...
I mean, I had the same issue with stupid OGN. Why allow SKTT1K and S to be in the same group when there were plenty of other mediocre teams that could have been in the group in place of S? Why let White and Blue teamkill 2 semifinals in a row? Hell, Why let White and K face each other in 2 consecutive quarterfinals (the first after they both had just been in the finals)? Seeding and bracket-making rules are the core of erecting a good bracket. Its like Riot was halfway to making it coherent with their group construction, but then just dropped the ball in putting together the second half.
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dade getting 250k$ base salary? holy fuck.
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Wow this thread has gone full retard mode with the conspiracy bs.
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Man the c9 part of that story gives me what would have been feels
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 29 2014 07:55 AsnSensation wrote:
dade getting 250k$ base salary? holy fuck.
China spending big, I think starhorn might have had an influence there. Also the fact that LSPL teams' attempts to cultivate talent has mostly been a disaster tbh.
For every flandre or noheart there's five cherishes who were supposed to be the next big talent and failed to perform even in LSPL. LPL teams have had a better run building up the talent like cloud, cola and U but LSPL seems to be able to grab so many of the big soloQ talents but it rarely pans out.
I'm semi-convinced this is kind of a bubble though, it feels like CN is overspending in reaction to starhorn's success and many available free agents over the kespa changes. I wouldn't be surprised if by S6 very few of the imports remain.
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On October 29 2014 08:31 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 07:55 AsnSensation wrote:
dade getting 250k$ base salary? holy fuck. China spending big, I think starhorn might have had an influence there. Also the fact that LSPL teams' attempts to cultivate talent has mostly been a disaster tbh. For every flandre or noheart there's five cherishes who were supposed to be the next big talent and failed to perform even in LSPL. LPL teams have had a better run building up the talent like cloud, cola and U but LSPL seems to be able to grab so many of the big soloQ talents but it rarely pans out. I'm semi-convinced this is kind of a bubble though, it feels like CN is overspending in reaction to starhorn's success and many available free agents over the kespa changes. I wouldn't be surprised if by S6 very few of the imports remain.
Dunno man, it seems like most of the players leaving Korea are already established, I'm actually expecting most of them to continue their careers abroad. Maybe best of the best could return (say, Kakao, Dade, Deft) after getting sick of China for whatever reason, but Lustboy, Helios, Insec and Zero seem to enjoy life.
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more than likely typical denial till formal announcement is ready but there is still hope for Dade in NA!
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EPT
