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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:01 Doublemint wrote:
what a joke decision... giving in to the fake outrage of some frustrated so called "pros" and a shitton of hurt fanboys - -
lol the irony
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On December 14 2011 20:59 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:57 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:41 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:39 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League" In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league. What a joke. this is pathetic you pretend naniwa didn't do something that bothered people so you can cling to some idea of racism ...when they replaced him with non korean That's stupid. I'm not accusing them of racism or anything. For me it just seems that they made a decision based on some cultural shinanigans, not on rules. but it is in the rules and it is also their culture. in their country and their company and their tournament. calling it the korean star league as an insult is ridiculous and does make it seem like you're accusing them of racism.
Please, link me to the rule that says "worker rushing is not allowed and is punishable by suspension." It's completely arbitrary.
Naniwa didn't act as he did because he thought that he would receive backlash. He didn't act the way he did to specifically piss off Koreans.
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On December 14 2011 20:58 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:55 Tobberoth wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no. Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither Alright let's bring the BlizzCon finals into this. NesTea creates a ton of broodlords and nothing else when MVP has mass ghosts, many vikings, and marines. Zero percent chance of winning that engagement, should NesTea be reprimanded? If you argue "well it's not the GSL" then there goes the argument for "professionalizing eSports" because there will be no set standard. Your argument is retarded. You can't be banned for bad decision making in the later stages of a game, it's completely different to start a game, and immediately do something that will lose you the game. Don't even try to make the case that Naniwa thought his rush had any chance of winning, your embaressing naniwa, yourself, and the rest of us. Don't act like it's even a question whether or not he completely threw that game. Every pro completely agreed that NesTea threw the game. If you watched tonight's SotG, you'd hear JP, Tyler, Day9, and Incontrol talking about how NesTea threw that match and about how terrible of a game it way. NesTea and NaNiwa both threw games, the only difference is at what point in time. Ideally NesTea should have played it out to the very last chance if we're talking about professionalism and giving it your best.
...they don't think nestea INTENTIONALLY threw that game. do you have any idea what anyone in this thread means when they say "threw" a game?
how can you not understand the difference between going in knowing you're not trying at all and going in and not playing your best? they're not the same thing and I'll laugh my ass off if you try to insist otherwise with semantics like you've been doing all thread.
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Looks like this is the first season of GSL I won't be buying, probably won't purchase a season ticket any more. Way to go GOM...
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I somewhat agree with the decision made by GOM, probe rushing really shows no respect for your fans nor the guys behind the tournament. - I think wether money were at stake or not, he should have played that game if not for himself, then for the thousands of fans tuning in to watch that specific match of Naniwa vs Nestea.
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On December 14 2011 20:59 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no. Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither Alright let's bring the BlizzCon finals into this. NesTea creates a ton of broodlords and nothing else when MVP has mass ghosts, many vikings, and marines. Zero percent chance of winning that engagement, should NesTea be reprimanded? If you argue "well it's not the GSL" then there goes the argument for "professionalizing eSports" because there will be no set standard. Well thats a entirely different thing. For that match it meant the difference between 1st and 2nd place and almost twice the price money for first. You cant compare that match with the one Naniwa played against NesTea which was a consolation match. Also that game was strange by itself. Who knew what NesTea was thinking? Maybe he thought he units somewhere on the map but they were killed? There was no real proof that NesTea threw the game unlike Naniwa who stated clearly he threw the game on his Twitter.
Prize money doesn't matter. According to professionalism you're supposed to be trying your hardest in every match regardless of reward. That's what makes it comparable.
Like I said in another post, pros have said that a bronze leaguer could make a better choice in that point of time when it comes to making the broodlords, it's the same decision making as Naniwa deciding to worker rush. The only difference is that Naniwa explicitly stated that he threw the game, if he said "well I thought it would work" there would be no argument against him when compared to NesTea's throw at Blizzcon
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hum. all this for a game that shouldent have been played. i agree he should of tried. but all this is more then the tap on the hand i would of gave him.
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On December 14 2011 21:00 borlee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:56 NHY wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 bella.test wrote:
As someone who doesn't even like Naniwa (don't know if I'd say I hate him, but I certainly don't like him), this is pretty fucking pathetic by GOM. Everyone talks about how Naniwa is an egotistical piece of crap, but this is a 100% ego move by GOMTV, and I will no longer buy any of their products, I also plan to watch a whole lot less of GSL next year.
Naniwa legitimately earned his code S spot. Revoking it simply because he did something that only made them look bad (but was probably a good thing overall for PR since all of the buzz it created) is extremely pathetic, especially when you consider that they (GOM and Naniwa) were only in that situation because of a terrible format (which is also nothing at all like the original Blizzard Cup format, and the only person to call GOM out on it is MVP, people should really be a lot more critical of GOM) that was created by GOM.
Also, even though I like Sen, giving him a code S seed is pretty lame. You can't just give a seed that was legitimately earned through a predetermined structure and give it to some random (not a knock against Sen's skill) foreigner because you revoked it from a foreigner. That's extremely unfair for all the players in code A and code B, if they're going to take away Naniwa's seed, it should become a wild card spot and become up for grabs.
All around, GOM is showing themselves to be just as classless as Naniwa. But unfortunately, there's nothing Naniwa can do because he's committed to Korea and there's no alternatives there, and there's nothing anyone who has gripes with GOM for their decision (and their decisions on other things) can do to affect GOM at all since they have a monopoly on the Korean players and they employ Tastosis (who people will watch no matter who's playing and how bad the games are, and will support no matter how wrong they are at things).
Again, this is pretty fucking pathetic. You seem to forget that it was Naniwa who played the game like that, given the situation. Also, Naniwa didn't "earn" his spot. He got 2nd at providence and GOM decided to give him a spot. It could've been someone else from WCG or IEM or whatever. im sure best non codes out of top3 mlg gets codes always
yes, if DRG had won he would have gotten the code-s spot, but since naniwa won he got it.
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On December 14 2011 21:02 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:57 TheExile19 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:56 tomatriedes wrote:On December 14 2011 20:54 Deadeight wrote:On December 14 2011 20:53 PoisedYeTi wrote:
Both player and tournament decisions are childish and unprofessional. I do not want to support GOMtv with my dollars anymore.
Zenio BACKHANDED idra when he beat him in a GSL game for god sake, WHERE IS HIS BAN? How is this the same thing? He backhanded that air after an good game, it was just a ceremony. If Naniwa had 'backhanded' a Korean player I doubt it would have been ignored. yeah, the culture that institutes the basic concept of a ceremony would be infuriated at the practice of said concept. I really just want to nuke this thread from orbit. Just watch if it ever happens. If you really think there would be no reaction, you're super naive.
good argument.
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Good make an example of him. It was a disgrace what he did. Many top players couldve had that spot. IdrA's backkkk <3
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On December 14 2011 21:01 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:00 bigjenk wrote:On December 14 2011 20:56 trucane wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 Koshi wrote:
When GSL January finals end with Nestea doing 5 worker rushes because he felt disheartened playing against MVP again, then I want to see the reaction of all people who think it is ok to trow matches... I'm sure there is something on line if you are playinh in a GSL final. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Wouldn't be the first time nestea threw a final. ya, but he threw the game with style apprantely that is okay..
Honestly if there was any proof of collusion to split the money, which their is pretty strong speculation that there was, it was far worse.
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On December 14 2011 21:02 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:59 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:57 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:41 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:39 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League" In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league. What a joke. this is pathetic you pretend naniwa didn't do something that bothered people so you can cling to some idea of racism ...when they replaced him with non korean That's stupid. I'm not accusing them of racism or anything. For me it just seems that they made a decision based on some cultural shinanigans, not on rules. but it is in the rules and it is also their culture. in their country and their company and their tournament. calling it the korean star league as an insult is ridiculous and does make it seem like you're accusing them of racism. Please, link me to the rule that says "worker rushing is not allowed and is punishable by suspension." It's completely arbitrary. Naniwa didn't act as he did because he thought that he would receive backlash. He didn't act the way he did to specifically piss off Koreans.
worker rush that involves 1-a and proceed to might as well jerk off for the remaining 2 minutes can't be anymore blatant than that.
and it doesn't work, ever. Its like trying to float your cc to a corner of the map and calls it "strategy" and thinks its not throwing the game away
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On December 14 2011 20:25 Full.tilt wrote:
Idra is intensively undergoing "gg" training right now.
This made my day.
Imagine Boxer standing above Idra and saying "Why you no GG?"
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On December 14 2011 21:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:58 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:55 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. Now take my other examples and try to refute them using that same BS logic. Go ahead, I'll wait. How was what I said BS logic? Why do you think teams pull starters when they have the #1 seed locked up? It's not because they want to say "Screw the fans", they don't want their top players getting hurt. Please, for the love of god explain how what I said is BS, because it's not. They don't want their players to get hurt. But they also don't give a shit about faking it. That's why you sometimes see teams shaking hands with time still on the clock, running down. Because they don't care. It's over. Everyone knows it's over. Only air bud fans are expecting anyone to keep playing. You addressed one tiny part of my example and only addressed that = BS logic.
but this game wasn't over, it was never played.
when a team is eliminated from the playoffs at the end of the season (a better comparison than an individual game) the players do try and win. football is the worst example by far because of the extreme likelihood of injuries so sometimes yes people do sit out. any other sport would be better.
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On December 14 2011 20:51 pms wrote:
It's a sad day for SC2 scene. It has just got divided, with many people claiming not to watch GSL and starting to hate GOMTV...
If GOMTV was meant to keep it going, then it has just failed... I think GOMTV should be much more responsible, and try to take care about all its viewers, not only its Korean-viewers. It's obvious that this decision was undertaken to comfort Korean community.
There should be a warning, there should be a clear rule if this kind of 'giving up' is allowed or not, there should be no such situation where matches are without stake.
But instead GOMTV has chosen the simplest, and worst option - ban Naniwa.
i agree
what naniwa did was of course stupid, but people complain that naniwa has been unprofessional, while gom has done something far more unprofessional with this.
in which sport is there a tournament organizer who just bans a player/team from a tournament they have rightfully qualified for, for doing something they don't approve of in another tournament they organize? without having a clear rule in place, and without giving a warning....
i'm really disappointed
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On December 14 2011 20:22 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 14 2011 20:19 Nizaris wrote:
What exactly happened ? i read like 10pages and i still don't know.. sry 1. They didn't permanently ban him, but revoked his Code S spot and gave it to Sen. 2. They said it was because he offended the audience by throwing away a (meaningless) game against Nestea at the recent Blizzard Cup, and that breaks a rule. With the amount of BM that already exists in the GSL matches inside the game and out (with celebrations), that rule that Naniwa got hit by is bullshit. it's not about "haha I beat you" style BM. it was disrespectful to the tournament and to the viewers and to nestea (in a different way)
It might be a "haha" thing for you and the Koreans. But it's not in Sweden or for most swedes. You're suppose to be a gracious winner and taunting your opponent after you won is in no way seen as respectful. It's even worse if you do it while the game is going on.
So why don't the Koreans get kicked out of dreamhack and so on? I could give you my honest opinion, but we've all seen how much people appreciate honesty so I wont, maybe that way I can dodge the banhammer.
Call it cultural difference. Either way there seem to be a hidden rule where what is considered appropriate behavior in Korea should also be considered appropriate in the rest of the world.
Naniwa should have been more subtle about the entire thing, throwing games is fine as long as you do it in a entertaining way. Gogo mothership rush next time.
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Oh and btw why would they invite idra when he has thrown every consolation match in MLG so far? And those have even had some money on the line compared to this game that had no money on the line at all
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On December 14 2011 21:02 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:59 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:57 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:41 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:39 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League" In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league. What a joke. this is pathetic you pretend naniwa didn't do something that bothered people so you can cling to some idea of racism ...when they replaced him with non korean That's stupid. I'm not accusing them of racism or anything. For me it just seems that they made a decision based on some cultural shinanigans, not on rules. but it is in the rules and it is also their culture. in their country and their company and their tournament. calling it the korean star league as an insult is ridiculous and does make it seem like you're accusing them of racism. Please, link me to the rule that says "worker rushing is not allowed and is punishable by suspension." It's completely arbitrary. Naniwa didn't act as he did because he thought that he would receive backlash. He didn't act the way he did to specifically piss off Koreans.
Well it did piss off enough Korean to cause backlash and ignorance is not an excuse.
And there is a rule about giving a disservice to fans and viewers so he got crushed there.
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On December 14 2011 21:01 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:59 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:58 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:56 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:54 xrapture wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. And yet the backups are still trying their asses off. They aren't just sitting down and letting the other team score. Their TEAM is not paying them to only play matches when they "matter" to them. No they aren't trying their asses off, and yes they usually are just sitting and waiting for the game to end. but they play the goddamn game and it's amazing you're in the head of every back up player. I bet some of them have something to prove to the world, no? Not really. They usually just rush up the middle until the game is over. And rushing up the middle, because you obviously know nothing about football, is the equivalent of probe rushing. It has ZERO chance of working and is the quickest way to end the game without straight up forfeiting. yeah I know nothing about football except that, small difference with starcraft, you can get injured in a game of football. RIGHT? I THINK I HEARD THAT SOMEWHERE, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME OH FOOTBALL EXPERT. channel the thoughts of every backup player to ever play and tell me
So what? Now people have to pretend and give you lip service because they can't be hurt by doing so? Oh it's okay not to if you might get hurt, but otherwise?
I WANT MY LIP SERVICE!!!
That's pathetic.
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