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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
GOMTV will regret this decision in the end of the day, gg
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Wait if his Code S seed is revoked is he now in Code A?
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On December 14 2011 20:52 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:50 Archerylady wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 Archerylady wrote:
GOM is fucking pathetic. Funny that they say Naniwa is only in it for the money (not true at all), and then instantly invite Idra and Sen. Two players who are completely undeserving of Code S. Why? To keep foreigner viewership up. Because they don't care one bit about the competitors struggling in Code A, they care about money. Fucking hypocrites. they aren't players and while idra brings money it also brings what fans want to see so you're sort of trapping them. anything they do for the fans is also for the money... Because players aren't allowed to want money? You know, the players who could be making a lot more money in a more normal profession with their intelligence level, but instead choosing to devote years of their life to a game that pays almost nothing. Those players? Yeah fuck them for wanting some return on their thousand of hours of practice. not what I said. there's a difference between wanting to win money and only caring about money. the latter means if you can't win cash off a game you throw it away in the face of people who payed to watch you play, your fans, your team, and your opponent. but I didn't say they can't want to win money at all. they should want to win money. they should also have some self respect when it comes to games that aren't about money.
Sorry but there is no honor or respect for anyone in GOM's decision. There is only money and ego in the minds of GOM higher-ups. Boot Naniwa because your ego is hurt, then invite two foreigners over much more deserving players to keep revenue up.
I am not calling out GOM's kicking Naniwa here by the way, I am calling out their slander of Naniwa.
GOM are hypocrites, plain and simple.
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On December 14 2011 20:53 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:53 theBALLS wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On December 14 2011 20:50 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 samw wrote:
What nani did was questionable but what gom have done is unnaceptable he earned that seed, why revoke it for using a cheesy strategy He wasn't suspended for the strategy but rather the disservice to the viewership. You know what a disservice to the viewership is? Showing a meaningless game. You didn't want to watch a game between nestea and Naniwa ? :o BO1? After the three previous games? No thanks.
For most of the people who are using this argument, this is total bs.
Virtually everyone, great deal of Naniwa fans as well, were hyping up and excited before the match.
Naniwa vs Nestea, to prove he is superior even in Nestea's homeland, performing at his best.
Vice versa for Nestea fans as well.
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This is just a problem with the structure of the tournament. At no point should two players play against each other if nothing is at stake (obviously unless its a showmatch/charity match etc.)
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I understand why people are upset about naniwas behavior. I understand GOMs decision even though I do disagree and think the punishment is too harsh. I really dislike the fact that gom goes out of their way to make Naniwa look bad.
I fucking love naniwa for being one of the few persons in sports who does not compromise with his will to win. Naniwa is playing to win and if there is nothing to win he does not play. I, personally, would rather watch a couple of 5-year olds duke it out on the soccer field, playing their hearts out, than barcelona's last group match in Championsleague, which meant literally nothing to them. To me, the spirit of the competition has nothing to do with some lofty ethical rules which noone states clearly but everyone should follow, or be considered outcasts. To me, the spirit of competition is the drive to win. To see the lengths, within the rules of the game, that humans can push themselves to prove themselves the best. If I have doubts about the incitaments for either party to try their hardest, I could not care less about the competition. To me it is a useless show, like a terribly scripted movie with awful actors and a dishonest crowd who cheers for nothing.
Nani, you have made a fan. Do not ever compromise.
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This is retarded even more-so that IdrA and Sen are getting Free Spots into Code S. It just makes GOM's decision look even more like a joke.
Naniwa gets removed for a ridiculous reason. GOMTV needs to Rescind their decision to Revoke Naniwas Code S Spot
Seriously what the hell kind of rule is this could it be more ambiguous?
GOMTV Rule: GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
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Poland3775 Posts
On December 14 2011 20:41 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:39 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League" In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league. What a joke. this is pathetic you pretend naniwa didn't do something that bothered people so you can cling to some idea of racism ...when they replaced him with non korean
That's stupid. I'm not accusing them of racism or anything. For me it just seems that they made a decision based on some cultural shinanigans, not on rules.
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On December 14 2011 20:56 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:54 xrapture wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. And yet the backups are still trying their asses off. They aren't just sitting down and letting the other team score. Their TEAM is not paying them to only play matches when they "matter" to them. No they aren't trying their asses off, and yes they usually are just sitting and waiting for the game to end.
but they play the goddamn game
and it's amazing you're in the head of every back up player. I bet some of them have something to prove to the world, no?
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On December 14 2011 20:56 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 Parcelleus wrote:
Might be time to follow BW.
SC2 scene just became a joke. What's really funny about this is anyone who has been following BW for a while knows KeSPA would have banned Naniwa permanently for throwing a game.
Although anyone following BW also knows that Kespa wouldn't make the player play games with no meaning ( unless it's one of those goofy showmatches). But yes Kespa would have banned naniwa as well
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On December 14 2011 20:55 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. Now take my other examples and try to refute them using that same BS logic. Go ahead, I'll wait.
How was what I said BS logic? Why do you think teams pull starters when they have the #1 seed locked up? It's not because they want to say "Screw the fans", they don't want their top players getting hurt. Please, for the love of god explain how what I said is BS, because it's not.
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For someone that actually PAYS for my SC2 content I'm glad they revoked his spot. Why on earth would I PAY to see a probe rush? Are some of the people in this thread really that daft.
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On December 14 2011 20:55 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no. Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither Alright let's bring the BlizzCon finals into this. NesTea creates a ton of broodlords and nothing else when MVP has mass ghosts, many vikings, and marines. Zero percent chance of winning that engagement, should NesTea be reprimanded? If you argue "well it's not the GSL" then there goes the argument for "professionalizing eSports" because there will be no set standard. Your argument is retarded. You can't be banned for bad decision making in the later stages of a game, it's completely different to start a game, and immediately do something that will lose you the game. Don't even try to make the case that Naniwa thought his rush had any chance of winning, your embaressing naniwa, yourself, and the rest of us. Don't act like it's even a question whether or not he completely threw that game.
Every pro completely agreed that NesTea threw the game. If you watched tonight's SotG, you'd hear JP, Tyler, Day9, and Incontrol talking about how NesTea threw that match and about how terrible of a game it way. NesTea and NaNiwa both threw games, the only difference is at what point in time. Ideally NesTea should have played it out to the very last chance if we're talking about professionalism and giving it your best.
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On December 14 2011 20:55 JohnStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 20:51 greatZERG wrote:On December 14 2011 20:50 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 samw wrote:
What nani did was questionable but what gom have done is unnaceptable he earned that seed, why revoke it for using a cheesy strategy He wasn't suspended for the strategy but rather the disservice to the viewership. They did a disservice to their viewership by forcing a meaningless match Two wrongs don't make a right unfortunately. It's an insult to my intelligence as a viewer to expect that I wouldn't know when a game is completely meaningless. I don't want to watch silly consolation matches between players when there is absolutely zero at stake.
Unfortunately a lot of people do want to watch matches where there is nothing at stake, especially when it's two renown players. Imagine if Flash vs Jaedong met on ladder for 'nothing at stake' I'm sure a ton of people would want to watch it.
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On December 14 2011 20:56 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:46 bella.test wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As someone who doesn't even like Naniwa (don't know if I'd say I hate him, but I certainly don't like him), this is pretty fucking pathetic by GOM. Everyone talks about how Naniwa is an egotistical piece of crap, but this is a 100% ego move by GOMTV, and I will no longer buy any of their products, I also plan to watch a whole lot less of GSL next year.
Naniwa legitimately earned his code S spot. Revoking it simply because he did something that only made them look bad (but was probably a good thing overall for PR since all of the buzz it created) is extremely pathetic, especially when you consider that they (GOM and Naniwa) were only in that situation because of a terrible format (which is also nothing at all like the original Blizzard Cup format, and the only person to call GOM out on it is MVP, people should really be a lot more critical of GOM) that was created by GOM.
Also, even though I like Sen, giving him a code S seed is pretty lame. You can't just give a seed that was legitimately earned through a predetermined structure and give it to some random (not a knock against Sen's skill) foreigner because you revoked it from a foreigner. That's extremely unfair for all the players in code A and code B, if they're going to take away Naniwa's seed, it should become a wild card spot and become up for grabs.
All around, GOM is showing themselves to be just as classless as Naniwa. But unfortunately, there's nothing Naniwa can do because he's committed to Korea and there's no alternatives there, and there's nothing anyone who has gripes with GOM for their decision (and their decisions on other things) can do to affect GOM at all since they have a monopoly on the Korean players and they employ Tastosis (who people will watch no matter who's playing and how bad the games are, and will support no matter how wrong they are at things).
Again, this is pretty fucking pathetic. You seem to forget that it was Naniwa who played the game like that, given the situation. Also, Naniwa didn't "earn" his spot. He got 2nd at providence and GOM decided to give him a spot. It could've been someone else from WCG or IEM or whatever.
The #1 finisher without a GSL code S spot at mlg gets a code s spot. Leenock already had a code S spot when he played Naniwa in the finals thus Naniwa got the code S spot.
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On December 14 2011 20:56 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 Parcelleus wrote:
Might be time to follow BW.
SC2 scene just became a joke. What's really funny about this is anyone who has been following BW for a while knows KeSPA would have banned Naniwa permanently for throwing a game.
Because no one ever threw a game to help a teamate advance? Did you even fucking watch any bw?
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On December 14 2011 20:54 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. And yet the backups are still trying their asses off. They aren't just sitting down and letting the other team score. Their TEAM is not paying them to only play matches when they "matter" to them.
Because the backups actually have a reason to be playing. People can look at that from either standpoint and say either "wtf, why is he trying so hard" OR "he really wants that starting position". He's a backup; he gets paid whether or not he tries hard, or even plays at all. The difference with the naniwa situation is that it just so happens that one side happens to have the ability to issue a ban depending on his opinion.
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On December 14 2011 20:57 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:41 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:39 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League" In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league. What a joke. this is pathetic you pretend naniwa didn't do something that bothered people so you can cling to some idea of racism ...when they replaced him with non korean That's stupid. I'm not accusing them of racism or anything. For me it just seems that they made a decision based on some cultural shinanigans, not on rules.
but it is in the rules
and it is also their culture. in their country and their company and their tournament.
calling it the korean star league as an insult is ridiculous and does make it seem like you're accusing them of racism.
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On December 14 2011 20:52 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:49 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no. Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither Alright let's bring the BlizzCon finals into this. NesTea creates a ton of broodlords and nothing else when MVP has mass ghosts, many vikings, and marines. Zero percent chance of winning that engagement, should NesTea be reprimanded? If you argue "well it's not the GSL" then there goes the argument for "professionalizing eSports" because there will be no set standard.
Well thats a entirely different thing. For that match it meant the difference between 1st and 2nd place and almost twice the price money for first. You cant compare that match with the one Naniwa played against NesTea which was a consolation match.
Also that game was strange by itself. Who knew what NesTea was thinking? Maybe he thought he units somewhere on the map but they were killed? There was no real proof that NesTea threw the game unlike Naniwa who stated clearly he threw the game on his Twitter.
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On December 14 2011 20:58 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:56 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:54 xrapture wrote:On December 14 2011 20:52 EZSkull wrote:On December 14 2011 20:49 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:46 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 razz wrote:
Respect to the people who payed is essential.
Respect to your opponent is essential.
Congratulations GOM for making an unpopular decision that defends the your principles! No it isn't. Only little kids and soccer mommies think that. Your forgetting Professionals in there. They also like to uphold their principles because integrity is important in adulthood. You'll find that out when you get older. LOL! Yeah, that's why the Colts sat every single starter for their last three games two seasons ago when they were gauranteed a playoff spot... That's why every single QB will come out once the game is beyond winning or losing. That's why every single coach runs BS plays until the clock runs out if they have no chance of winning. Oh wait... you're flat out wrong. Pros play for money. Little kids who cry about not being drafted play for "love of the sport". Here's the difference. You're using football. If the Colts play Manning in a game that doesn't effect seeding and he gets hurt then what? The difference between football and SC2; You can get hurt and out for the playoffs in Football. Horrible example. And yet the backups are still trying their asses off. They aren't just sitting down and letting the other team score. Their TEAM is not paying them to only play matches when they "matter" to them. No they aren't trying their asses off, and yes they usually are just sitting and waiting for the game to end. but they play the goddamn game and it's amazing you're in the head of every back up player. I bet some of them have something to prove to the world, no?
Not really. They usually just rush up the middle until the game is over. And rushing up the middle, because you obviously know nothing about football, is the equivalent of probe rushing. It has ZERO chance of working and is the quickest way to end the game without straight up forfeiting.
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EPT
