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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 20:36 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:30 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 Ysellian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:19 iamke55 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:17 Klogbert wrote:On December 14 2011 20:16 Packawana wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 Klogbert wrote:On December 14 2011 20:12 Eviscerador wrote:On December 14 2011 20:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Forfeiting the match would be terrible sportsmanship. Probe rushing is even below that. It's a straight FU to the fans, opponent, and GOM. I'm glad GOM took the issue of professionalism seriously. Someone has to, and it's definitely not Naniwa. Droping mules or building CC on your defeated enemy base is not? For me that is the middle finger equivalent in videogames. Double standards everywhere... Holy crap didn't even think about this...wow does this makes GOM look like hypocrites. I'm officially done with GSL...still. But were those games actually played out? This is the main thing, this wasn't a form of BM that was meant to insult the opponent in the way dropping mules is. This is BM in the way that insults the tournament and insults the viewers. If you play for any team or any sport, you are expected to give your all no matter what your standing is, no matter how far down or far up you are. When it becomes blatantly obvious that you're not playing to win (and reaffirm that post-match), then you are not living to the professionalism that is supposed to be integral in any competition. You must not really watch sports then...the Indianapolis Colts certainly aren't giving their all. The Chicago Cubs at the end of every year don't even play their stars. Not sending your best players in a team sport is the equivalent in SC2 of trying out a new build that isn't as refined as your old one. No it isn't. That analogy is quite good actually. No it isn't.
If you are not playing your best players, you are admitting defeat. You want it to be different because you want to hate on Nani for offending you bullshit sensibilities. get over yourself. Except that is where you are wrong. Not playing your best players puts you at a disadvantage similar to a unrefined strategy, but your players on the field are still playing for the win. If players actually roll over and let the opponent just kick their ass the immediate reaction would be that the match was fixed. Look up Dinamo Zagreb for such an example. and let it be known that Naniwa did NOT micro his probes.
Nope. Most of the time those players run plays that are designed to end the game as quickly as possible so as to avoid injury so you are dead fucking wrong and stop making shit up for like the seventh time.
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On December 14 2011 20:34 Chromodoris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:29 michielbrands wrote:
I don't understand why people do not agree with GSL decision, in any other sport NaNiWa would have been punished way harder. In soccer teams who lose with purpose, and that's what NaNiWa obivously did, they ban the team for like 5 years. I think NaNiWa gets away pretty good...
If we want to make eSport serious, we need to punish seriously and that´s what GSL did.
I am really sad NaNiWa made this stupid mistake, cause I like the player very much his playstyle is genius, but what he did yesterday was just plain stupid! In football they would not get 5 years of penalty for not playing their best in a match that does nothing, stop saying things that are not true. I've seen plenty football games where the match meant nothing and neither of the teams played to win and none of those games have been "hurting" football. Sure if you lose on purpose and it affects someone else or if you are fixing a match you'll get punished but that's not the case here. Sure he could be fined for not respecting the tournament but the games should not have been played in the first place. Revoking his Code S spot that he earned at MLG is way too harsh. Something that's alot worse than what Naniwa did is what Stephano did at DH since that meant that Cloud got a free win when the other two in the group had to play against a Stephano that tried.
NaNiwa wans't "playing his best in a match". He deliberately threw that game away to make a statement. There is a difference in not playing best but still trying to win and losing on purpose.
You are right what stephano did was wrong, shame that DH didn't punish him for that.
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On December 14 2011 20:32 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. Worker rush works against a 6 pool, it has a win rate. Therefore it is also legit. This argument has been crushed so many times in this thread.
His worker rush had zero chance of working. How do you win with zero micro? His hands weren't even on the keyboard.
On December 14 2011 20:27 anrimayu wrote:This thread is pointless, not even gonna try. Just gonna
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On December 14 2011 20:33 hzflank wrote:
I am finding it really hard to understand how anyone can defend Naniwa in this thread.
I am finding it really hard to understand how anyone can get upset about someone throwing a completely meaningless game.
Very disappointing move by gomtv, I thought they were better then this.
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Poland3772 Posts
On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:
Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker "Global Starcraft League"
In my eyes GSL is no more. It's obviously GomTV Korean Starcraft League so KSL which just happens to be top level SC2 league.
What a joke.
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I just wonder why they made them play the game even though games are normally cancelled by GOM if they mean nothing.
I would also like to always play X games in a BoX, otherwise I am missing out and the players should play to amuse me.
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On December 14 2011 20:38 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:31 Destructicon wrote:
This was the right move from GOM TV and I support them for doing this.
Like it or not gaming is now becoming a profession, you have to behave and act in a certain way, to be respectful and not offend anyone, the same its done in other sports. GOM did the right thing to show that, behavior like this will not be tolerated.
I'm quite sure the majority of people are raging because they suspect Korean bias from GOM and also view Naniwa as sort of our "foreign hero".
Consider that, when one of their own, Slayers_Coca started a matchfixing scandal he was quickly forced to give up his Code S and if he wouldn't have done it GOM would have done it at least.
Secondly, why should we forgive Naniwa? Just because he is a foreigner? The rules are for all, Naniwa messed up and deserved this. In actual fact the majority of the people here have a distorted outlook on reality, they think that, just because you are a great player/personality you can afford to be a jerk in life and just piss over everyone. That is NOT how the world works, nor how it is meant to work. The people offended by GOMs decision should be offended by Naniwa's gesture and should re-view their outlook on life. But you're missing the point- Korean players aren't respectful to each other! They taunt and BM their opponents in all sorts of ways. They build manner nexuses and hatcheries, they drop manner mules and make their units dance. After matches they do thumbs down and all sorts of other disrespectful ceremonies and Gom never gives two shits about any of this behavior. If they want players to be professional that's fine, but they need to be consistent about it.
Exactly... And they need to clearly state what exactly it is they expect out of the players. Ambiguity is unacceptable when you're going to throw out penalties this severe..
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Fucking sob naniwa deserved this. Idra is 10 orders of magnitude better than naniwalk.
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2011 20:38 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:36 Nate.F wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 DystopiaX wrote:On December 14 2011 20:31 Destructicon wrote:
This was the right move from GOM TV and I support them for doing this.
Like it or not gaming is now becoming a profession, you have to behave and act in a certain way, to be respectful and not offend anyone, the same its done in other sports. GOM did the right thing to show that, behavior like this will not be tolerated.
I'm quite sure the majority of people are raging because they suspect Korean bias from GOM and also view Naniwa as sort of our "foreign hero".
Consider that, when one of their own, Slayers_Coca started a matchfixing scandal he was quickly forced to give up his Code S and if he wouldn't have done it GOM would have done it at least.
Secondly, why should we forgive Naniwa? Just because he is a foreigner? The rules are for all, Naniwa messed up and deserved this. In actual fact the majority of the people here have a distorted outlook on reality, they think that, just because you are a great player/personality you can afford to be a jerk in life and just piss over everyone. That is NOT how the world works, nor how it is meant to work. The people offended by GOMs decision should be offended by Naniwa's gesture and should re-view their outlook on life. I don't care where Nani is from looking at it: 1. Naniwa probe rushed. People don't like this because people don't like cheese, especially one they don't think can win. However, Gom has not specifically banned this strategy nor has a rule explicitly disallowing its use in play. 2. GOM bans Naniwa under vague terms, then basically insults him, saying he's not really a progamer. The second one especially gets me because GOM is meant to be a professional organization, and no matter what happens should remain professional. Their statement was not that. Also, the matchfixing scandal is a completely different story- Coca did something explicitly against the rules. Naniwa did not. Not even going to discuss your last paragraph because it hinges on the fact that most people think what Naniwa did is wrong, and I do not. rules are meant to be vague so that people dont figure out loopholes There's a balance between not having loopholes and being so vague that your punishments are arbitrary. GOM's rules (or this one in particular) fall into the latter category.
they are allowed to maintain some control over their tournament.
the very fact that some people defend the probe rush as a strat (even though nani did it to throw the game as he said) shows that a hard and fast rule wouldn't be particularly useful here.
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4713 Posts
One more thing for the people saying that worker rush could win. Naniwa didn't even try to micro, not only that, people in GOM studio actually say they saw him take his hands of the keyboard. It was 100% clear he didn't even try to make it work, stop proposing this stupid hypotheses. And we even know 99.99% that Nestea would not 6 pool under any circumstances anyway so there was a 100% chance the strategy wouldn't work.
Edit: Picture beat me to it, but here is the proof.
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Or maybe its just a Honne/Tatemae thing. Asians be crazy about that.
Make it seem like you care about the game, even tough everybody knows you just don't give a damn. 
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Gotta love the racism stuff, they do the same to Korean players as well Korean players are just more serious than NaNiwa.
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On December 14 2011 20:37 Klaent wrote:
What the fuck? This is fucking retarded... If it was Nestea doing a drone rush they would NEVER banned him, and the korean wouldnt have freaked the fuck out. Let him probe rush if he wants to, whats the big fucking deal...
This its such a double standard by the GOMTV wtf .... I think this is really harsh to Naniwa.
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On December 14 2011 20:35 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:33 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:32 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:31 jyisvip wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 Jakkerr wrote:
Just a question for all the guys agreeing with GOM's decision.
Think about it for a second and answer it honestly:
You are playing with 200% focus but still went 0-3, you are incredibly frustrated by it and really just want to go home and lay in bed or something.
Then sum1 comes up to you and tells you have to play your 4th game vs another guy that's also 0-3 because it was scheduled.
Would you be able to play it serious and not just do something retarded and get it over with? In any sport, do you see players stop giving a shit and sits down on the bench because they are losing, not able to come back and only 5 minutes left on the clock? No, you dont see that. If everyone here that wants e-sports to grow then everyone needs to act more professional and not act like however your mood is at the moment. Yes you do see that ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Stop making shit up. they literally always finish the game Good players do it all the time leaving the bench players to go sit through the end of the game. Literally ever lakers starter did it multiple times in the dallas series last year.
I have yet to see one laker starter just lay down on the court and say score on us and win the game....
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On December 14 2011 20:38 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:36 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:32 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. Worker rush works against a 6 pool, it has a win rate. Therefore it is also legit. This argument has been crushed so many times in this thread. Sorry I forgot that 7 probes beats 6 zerglings+5 drones I'm sorry You get there before the lings pop out.. rofl. I also missed the fact that 7 probes arrive to a Zerg base in under 1 minute on a 4 PLAYER map and the Zerg player(NesTea) would be incompetent enough to let his drones freely die to probes before zerglings die
Given his control against Leenock in the blizzard cup groups I wouldn't be surprised.
Check the worker rush blog for some info about how worker rushes beat many good player.
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Don't make this a racial or cultural issue. If anything, this whole debacle shows that there are idiots all over the world. :-)
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On December 14 2011 20:33 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:29 h41fgod wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:24 ReaperX wrote:On December 14 2011 20:22 Lann555 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:21 tnud wrote:On December 14 2011 20:20 valaki wrote:On December 14 2011 20:15 klaxen wrote:
Everyone is done with GSL. I guess you don't like watching the best players. I do like that. Naniwa isn't one of them. He is. He got many very solid titles to his name and put up really good games in the Blizzard Cup. I don't even know where to start. Start out by pointing out a game he has won in GSL. I honestly think Sen will do much better in GSL then Naniwa Start out by pointing out a game Sen has won in the GSL. When Sen was in the GSL he made it to the Ro32 and had some close ZvZ's vs NesTea And he beat Naniwa in Blizzcon so I wouldn't say that the gap between their skill levels is THAT massive And Naniwa beat MVP, nestea, and DRG at blizzcon so I wouldnät say that the gap between their skill levels is THAT massive. By that I think you mean MLG not Blizzcon, a tournament which Sen has NEVER participated in. I would say Sen has the skill to beat the best of the best
Ah, yes, I shouldnt have copied your post quite so literally. I am just arguing that Naniwa is just as good.
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On December 14 2011 20:39 Catbus wrote:
I just wonder why they made them play the game even though games are normally cancelled by GOM if they mean nothing.
I would also like to always play X games in a BoX, otherwise I am missing out and the players should play to amuse me.
for the viewers
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On December 14 2011 20:39 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:32 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. Worker rush works against a 6 pool, it has a win rate. Therefore it is also legit. This argument has been crushed so many times in this thread. His worker rush had zero chance of working. How do you win with zero micro? His hands weren't even on the keyboard. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:27 anrimayu wrote:This thread is pointless, not even gonna try. Just gonna
Didn't know u need 300APM to micro 6 probes...it's good to know..thank u for the knowledge bomb
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EPT![[image loading]](http://local.twitpicproxy.com/web18/img/472192446-c2249e3b78f60dc10eeb6018975b66de.4ee888b8-full.gif)
