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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 20:35 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:32 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. Worker rush works against a 6 pool, it has a win rate. Therefore it is also legit. This argument has been crushed so many times in this thread. Sorry I forgot that 7 probes beats 6 zerglings+5 drones I'm sorry
You get there before the lings pop out.. rofl.
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On December 14 2011 20:31 krirby wrote:
I sympathize with Naniwa greatly and do not consider his actions to be totally out of bounds but; everyone on this forum has to remember that this happened in Korea. I don't think this would've caused much (if any) trouble if it happened MLG or DH but different culture means different norms. Naniwa should've known to abide by those. He's been in Korea long enough to know that this kind of behavior is heavily frowned upon, and should've respected the tournament and just played out that last game.
Being a pro means knowing what you can do where you can do it. Naniwa made a serious error in judgment here.
This post nails it really, Naniwa should have known better. Can you imagine a BW pro under Kespa doing this? He'd probably be banned for life. There's a reason this went down so badly among Korean fans particularly, this kind of thing just is not acceptable over there. Not that it would be totally acceptable in the west, but it wouldn't cause quite so much uproar.
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On December 14 2011 18:53 xBillehx wrote:
I'm perfectly fine with what would be completely normal and expected from KeSPA. It's only a matter of time before they enter the scene anyway.
I'm with you. KeSPA will take sc2 in 2013 (as soon as the agreement between Blizz and GOM expires)
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On December 14 2011 20:34 Dimon87 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:31 anrimayu wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 Dimon87 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:18 anrimayu wrote:On December 14 2011 20:11 Dimon87 wrote:
I guess the "global" part of the GOM.tv did not apply here. Really dissapointing. no naniwa = no longer global Let's ignore every other foreigners in the gsl because using hyperboles is cool What i meant was that this decision is fully based on korean culture and it seems they do not care about the west. Way to harsh punishment. I wonder why a Korean tournament ran by Koreans in Korea sponsored by Korean companies are making decisions based on Korean culture? It just doesn't make sense. It is fully within their right and it DOES makes sense but they do also call themselves a global tournament.
MLB calls their finals World Series. www.worldseries.com/
Contrary to popular beliefs, Dreamhack tournament organizers will not hack into your dreams.
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On December 14 2011 20:35 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:30 iky43210 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:23 Brett wrote:On December 14 2011 20:20 Nate.F wrote:On December 14 2011 20:19 archonOOid wrote:
I feel like the rule naniwa broke against is very vague and so it's up to GSL to determine whether he broke it or not. It feels like GOMtv/GSL has some kind of grudge against naniwa because you can win a probe rush if you opponent goes for a 6 pool. Naniwa clearly tried to out smart neastea but he stuck with a standard build. rules have to be vague or people will find loopholes to get around it -_- As a lawyer, please take my word on the fact that what you just wrote is nonsense. Laws are not meant to be vague at all. They are supposed to be very clear so that people know the lawful boundaries and can act within the scope of the law. Ambiguity actually makes for invalid law... explain the bills of right LOL... Is that supposed to be a counter argument to what I just said?
I was confused as well.
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On December 14 2011 20:33 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:28 Nate.F wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 Dreamgzer wrote:
Also, as I said in another post; GOMtv will lose it's Sweden support. they wont. Yes they will. and have.
Hello Sweden, Nice to meet you, I personally am Austria. Do you want to buy MY part of the the danube off me? PM me i send you my Bank Account Data.
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On December 14 2011 20:35 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:31 Destructicon wrote:
This was the right move from GOM TV and I support them for doing this.
Like it or not gaming is now becoming a profession, you have to behave and act in a certain way, to be respectful and not offend anyone, the same its done in other sports. GOM did the right thing to show that, behavior like this will not be tolerated.
I'm quite sure the majority of people are raging because they suspect Korean bias from GOM and also view Naniwa as sort of our "foreign hero".
Consider that, when one of their own, Slayers_Coca started a matchfixing scandal he was quickly forced to give up his Code S and if he wouldn't have done it GOM would have done it at least.
Secondly, why should we forgive Naniwa? Just because he is a foreigner? The rules are for all, Naniwa messed up and deserved this. In actual fact the majority of the people here have a distorted outlook on reality, they think that, just because you are a great player/personality you can afford to be a jerk in life and just piss over everyone. That is NOT how the world works, nor how it is meant to work. The people offended by GOMs decision should be offended by Naniwa's gesture and should re-view their outlook on life. I don't care where Nani is from looking at it: 1. Naniwa probe rushed. People don't like this because people don't like cheese, especially one they don't think can win. However, Gom has not specifically banned this strategy nor has a rule explicitly disallowing its use in play. 2. GOM bans Naniwa under vague terms, then basically insults him, saying he's not really a progamer. The second one especially gets me because GOM is meant to be a professional organization, and no matter what happens should remain professional. Their statement was not that. Also, the matchfixing scandal is a completely different story- Coca did something explicitly against the rules. Naniwa did not. Not even going to discuss your last paragraph because it hinges on the fact that most people think what Naniwa did is wrong, and I do not.
rules are meant to be vague so that people dont figure out loopholes
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This is dumb he technically hasn't done anything wrong I mean if there was a rule against it fine but there isn't as far as im aware he can use any strat he wants
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Naniwa acted like a child and disrespected everybody involved.
He had a lot of possible reasons why he could have played, honor of winning the grudge match, getting more stage experience, for the fans, because he was paid to do it etc.
He could have done anything else like cannon rush, proxy gated whatever he just wanted to show gom they can go fuck themselves for making him play a game just for the viewers which is basically his job.
If you act unprofessional there can be consequences in any job and in this case its not too serious as Naniwa isnt really ready for GSL anyway judging by results and soon nobody will care about this anyway its not like he is banned for 6 months.
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I couldn't say I did not see this coming. As someone who spent a big part of their life in Asia my first reaction was: "what? he should be kicked out of the tournament".
I guess the cultural clash was just too big for Naniwa to handle it. I never seen Naniwa for more than a very good cheaser (always acting like he's on PMS), never thought he deserved a code S spot anyway (how many wins/losses he has?).
I'm glad his ban happened, no matter how much or how little importance a game has, you NEED to play everyur game to win. People are paying to see you do your best. Your opponent expects you to do your best. The people who pay you expect you to do your best EVERY SINGLE GAME you play on that stage. Not doing so is a disrespect and insult to all the people I named before. The punishment is just and welcome.
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On December 14 2011 20:34 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:33 hYrasD wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 hYrasD wrote:On December 14 2011 20:15 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 Sailincieri wrote:
Kids, this is obvious decision, you should understand why...
GSL is tournament for professional players, playing is profession, not some kind of fun.
In GSL they play for audience! Not for themselves. Do you think in normal JOB you can say to your boss that you have bad humor and dont wanna work? NO!
Naniwa, no matter what he think, should just sit in that booth and give fight with all his heart! To respect Korean audience, NesTea, GSL stuff, online audience etc.
This match wasnt meaningless, if not for Naniwa it has meaning for audience, probably for NesTea...
This is not a playground for 3yo kinds, this is professional tournament, for professional players.
His duty as a player was to give his best in that game! The match was meaningless. If this match was to decide who was last in the up and down groups it wouldn't have been played. The only reason GOM showed it was because NESTEA VS NANIWA DRAMA OMG VIEWER COUNTS!!!! And thats the Point! Some People stand up all night long or woke up early, or used their break at work to watch that re game between Nestea and Nani. Rly no one cant be satisfied with that performance from nani, not the 3games before, u can lose to stupid one base allin´s. Just imagine CR or Leo Messi act like this in a Classico after they are 3goals behind. Would you have been more satisfied if NaNiwa poorly cannon rushed and left or poory proxied and left? Probably not. Also it's not Naniwa's fault that his opponents decided to cheese him all three games, MMA did it without even scouting him. Early expand like the other 3games and try to play a macro game? Why not? I dont get it and pls stop the bullshit it was meaningless it wasnt for the fans. So why didn't Leenock, MMA, or Polt early expand and try to play a macro game? How about MC vs MVP? Please quit with the double standards.
Man pls dont compare a "real" allin, with a 6probe rush, its ridiculous
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On December 14 2011 20:34 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. - idra hasn't pulled that shit in korea, where nobody would stand for it. he is seeded though, so we'll see how long he lasts.
He has pulled way worse shit outside of Korea though (forfeiting the second game in a Bo3 after losing the first against Nerchio in the semis of a TL Open - A game that was broadcast and actually mattered for the rest of the tourney) and he doesn't get nearly as much flak as Naniwa is getting over this.
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On December 14 2011 20:25 mTw|NarutO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 20:22 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:13 Sailincieri wrote:
Kids, this is obvious decision, you should understand why...
GSL is tournament for professional players, playing is profession, not some kind of fun.
In GSL they play for audience! Not for themselves. Do you think in normal JOB you can say to your boss that you have bad humor and dont wanna work? NO!
Naniwa, no matter what he think, should just sit in that booth and give fight with all his heart! To respect Korean audience, NesTea, GSL stuff, online audience etc.
This match wasnt meaningless, if not for Naniwa it has meaning for audience, probably for NesTea...
This is not a playground for 3yo kinds, this is professional tournament, for professional players.
His duty as a player was to give his best in that game! With all his heart!? Do you really think that any progamer can do this after being eliminated in the most frustrating manner in 3 extremely close games? For Nestea and Naniwa it stopped being a tournament the moment they got 0-3. From them on it became an annoying waste of time. Also, it's quite disrespectful to start a post with "Kids"... Really? Does FC Munich just quit the field when they are down 0-3 in the 80 minute? Does Hamilton decide to just not drive the last 3 races if he can't be world champion? Your comparison makes me sick. They are professionals and they should act like they are.
Makes you sick? Seriously? His comparison invokes feelings of physical illness in you? His comparison brings out the feeling in you that most people reserve for murderers and child molesters? Really?
If you honestly believe that FC Munich(or any professional sports team) tries as hard as they possibly can to win a game when they are down by 3 with 10 minutes left you are delusional. They are just doing the paces, just like Naniwa and Nestea were doing the paces.
GomTV decided to suspend Naniwa because he "didn't try hard enough", nothing more. It sets a very ambiguous precedent. A micro-less 2 gate proxy has as much chance of succeeding as a probe rush in a GSL game.
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What the fuck? This is fucking retarded... If it was Nestea doing a drone rush they would NEVER banned him, and the korean wouldnt have freaked the fuck out. Let him probe rush if he wants to, whats the big fucking deal...
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Jeez, the amount of mindless hyperbole from both sides within this thread is frustrating. I feel bad for Naniwa, and he obviously has some issues and made a pretty daft decision during the game. The punishment was harsh, but it fits in with the Korean ethos, and isn't a big surprise, especially considering the reaction to his actions. I'm really not sure why we can't have a discussion without resorting to bashing GOM, over the top outrage, and bashing the Swedish community. Once things become "disgusting" or "outrageous" then you have nowhere to go when you need to describe something really important or significant. It's just the forum equivalent of shitty tabloid journalism where everything has to be one extreme or the other.
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i was also thinking about buying gsl for 2012 but after naniwa is suspended i'm not sure anymore, was really looking forward to see him in code s. I think gomtv overreacted, it was a game that didn't mean anything so. Its obvious that he should get a warning or something but not his spot revoked
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Such a joke. Hope to see Nani in gsl soon!
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On December 14 2011 20:35 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:33 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:32 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:31 jyisvip wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 Jakkerr wrote:
Just a question for all the guys agreeing with GOM's decision.
Think about it for a second and answer it honestly:
You are playing with 200% focus but still went 0-3, you are incredibly frustrated by it and really just want to go home and lay in bed or something.
Then sum1 comes up to you and tells you have to play your 4th game vs another guy that's also 0-3 because it was scheduled.
Would you be able to play it serious and not just do something retarded and get it over with? In any sport, do you see players stop giving a shit and sits down on the bench because they are losing, not able to come back and only 5 minutes left on the clock? No, you dont see that. If everyone here that wants e-sports to grow then everyone needs to act more professional and not act like however your mood is at the moment. Yes you do see that ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Stop making shit up. they literally always finish the game Good players do it all the time leaving the bench players to go sit through the end of the game. Literally ever lakers starter did it multiple times in the dallas series last year.
No apparently they don't because these tools want justification for being tools.
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On December 14 2011 20:33 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:28 Nate.F wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 Dreamgzer wrote:
Also, as I said in another post; GOMtv will lose it's Sweden support. they wont. Yes they will. and have.
What exactly does Naniwa being Swedish have to do with anything? Is Naniwa the only reason you watch GSL? Does this ruling make you believe GOM has something against Swedish people and their culture?
I can guarantee you this act would be the same against anyone of any nationality and I have an inkling you wouldn't care nearly as much as you do now if that person in question wasn't Swedish.
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EPT
