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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 110

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
iksi
Profile Joined March 2011
25 Posts
December 14 2011 12:23 GMT
#2181
Follow tournament rules. Get banned by the tournament. Now can someone explain me how this is making any sense. Ok, so Naniwa was a bit BM, so what ? like it was a first time you ever saw an aired live event where someone throws down a bit BM. Ok, so now we start banning ALL THE BM'ING players from EVERY major tournament. Its A KING IDEA - 2012 - ESPORTS dead.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.
Vari
Profile Joined September 2010
United States532 Posts
December 14 2011 12:23 GMT
#2182
On December 14 2011 21:21 ander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:14 baoluvboa wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:12 ander wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:09 deth wrote:
i honestly dont know why so many people are trying to defend naniwa.

GSL is a business, naniwa is paid to play the tournament and is expected to act like a professional sportsman, especially important if he is to be playing professionally in korea.

People pay to watch GSL, the maps and games were determined beforehand. Even if the game was pointless, so many people wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea as its just a great matchup, especially with the rivalry. Then naniwa throws it and disappoints everyone who paid for the season pass, despite nani getting guaranteed prize money from the tourney.

At the very least you owe it to your fans to play the game, even if you have no motivation for doing so. Everyone arguing otherwise needs to shove away their internet pitchforks and think about it from GSL's point of view.


Few people are defending naniwa; most are upset with GSL's ridiculous, ambiguous, and over the top reaction.



ridiculous - was in their rule
ambiguous - correct in term of their rules but historical analogies set by brood war time and past incidents have established a pretty clear definite of what proper conducts are for progamers.
over the top - same as ridiculous


Point #1 - Link me please, to the rule that says "worker rushing is suspendable."

Point #2 - basically the definition of ambiguous. That's completely open to interpretation, which is what makes it a stupid rule.

Point #3 - wp.

being open to the interpretation of people running a competition doesn't make a rule stupid.

worker rushing in and of itself isn't enough to get you suspended.
Stroke Me Lady Fame
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
December 14 2011 12:23 GMT
#2183
On December 14 2011 21:22 dolvlo wrote:
HAHAHAHA What a joke. Fuck you GOMtv, I'm done with you. I will never purchase another thing from you again, I will never watch another tournament run by you again. I sincerely hope you lose your license to broadcast exclusively in Korea.

Whoa there buddy, thats kinda harsh. You'll be back to tune in, dont worry
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Derity
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany2952 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:24:47
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2184
GOMTV acting very hypocrite... nothing more to say.
They allow insulting 'ceremonies' for the show (not very sportsmanlike)
They force a player to play in a game (SC2) where a player wins when the other player forfeits or loses all his buildings.
There is no rule that a game has to last at least 5 minutes or so.
They just wanted to fake-hype a 'grudge' match with no meaning for ranking/earnings.
Calling a player out 'amateur prize money hunter'. This is ridiculous.


And for a 'professional' league they have the worst stream of all...
Alpino
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil4390 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:24:42
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2185
On December 14 2011 21:22 kslghost wrote:
All these whiny kids crying while all the pro gamers respect the decision and look down on Naniwa's decision.

Maybe the fans need to hold their "high and mighty" gamer of choice to higher standards than a rat choosing which garbage to eat. Don't you want to have your favorite player to be the one that respects the game, competition, audience, sponsors, and even culture?


All the korean progamers.

Fucking joke
20/11/2015 - never forget EE's Ember
zanga
Profile Joined September 2011
659 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2186

*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.

*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.

*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.

Is that also "HONOUR"? Wtf

Never watching GOMTV again.
(:
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2187
On December 14 2011 21:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:20 -y0shi- wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:16 WArped wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:

"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."

From MC


MC is pretty much spot on. He cares about his fans, his job and has RESPECT for other people. I hope NaNi will learn from his mistakes, he will earn his respect back if he trains hard, acts respectful towards GOM and works his way through Code A again.


Mc is completly off...

" I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself"

Thats just not true.. Did you read the interviews etc?? Nani didnt want to play because he felt like he couldnt give his all and show his best match and didnt want to do some half asses games just because he has to.

Soo sad for nani >.<

What a sad excuse. THINK ABOUT IT. You think he really cared about the viewers and showing a good game when he did a probe rush? So instead of showing us a bad game, he showed us shit wrapped up in a sack lit on fire aged in a dead whale.


Hint, its because its the fastest way to end the game ...
trucane
Profile Joined January 2009
United States553 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2188
On December 14 2011 21:23 eYeball wrote:
I don't know but that line with calling Naniwa a "amateur prize money hunter" really felt like below the belt from Mr.Chae.


Especially considering how amateur GOM is proven by the hacking incident and the plain text non encrypted sensitive information.
MasterBlasterCaster
Profile Joined October 2011
United States568 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2189
On December 14 2011 21:22 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:18 Ace.Xile wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:14 Vari wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:13 Ace.Xile wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:

"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."

From MC


I think it's funny that pro-gamers advocate giving up competition in order for entertainment, as if pro gamers are entertainers who just happen to be competitors..

where does it say anything about giving up competition?


Because to essentially cater to fans is anti competition. In the light of a competition where your competition has ended, and you still have a game left, you have one of two options, you either just forfeit the game like naniwa did, or you attempt to entertain fans by creating some sort of fake competitive image, which in itself just makes a mockery of real competition. If your a pro gamer the goal should be to worry about competition, not create games where you try to act like there's something on the line when there isn't. I just think it's utterly silly to bring in pro gamers to a competition, and then once it's effectively over expect them to be forced to play a fake competitive game or be banned. The only argument you could make against naniwa is that he's a dick for not just playing a fun game for his fans, but he didn't sign up for the competition to play fun games, he signed up to compete and once the competition was over he pretty much just didn't see the point in faking it.


"fake competitive image"... so suddenly players can't simply want to prove they are better than other players?



Why the FUCK DO THEY HAVE TO?
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2190
On December 14 2011 21:24 -y0shi- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:20 -y0shi- wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:16 WArped wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:

"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."

From MC


MC is pretty much spot on. He cares about his fans, his job and has RESPECT for other people. I hope NaNi will learn from his mistakes, he will earn his respect back if he trains hard, acts respectful towards GOM and works his way through Code A again.


Mc is completly off...

" I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself"

Thats just not true.. Did you read the interviews etc?? Nani didnt want to play because he felt like he couldnt give his all and show his best match and didnt want to do some half asses games just because he has to.

Soo sad for nani >.<

What a sad excuse. THINK ABOUT IT. You think he really cared about the viewers and showing a good game when he did a probe rush? So instead of showing us a bad game, he showed us shit wrapped up in a sack lit on fire aged in a dead whale.


Hint, its because its the fastest way to end the game ...

Hint, tell them you won't play/forfeit off stage.
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2191
GomTV got complaints that were by no means able to be ignored, they didn't suspend him just cause they felt like it.

For everyone saying, herpity derpity I won't buy a pass for - for every one of you there are two people going well done GOM.
Vardant
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic620 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:24:53
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2192
On December 14 2011 21:22 GeNeSiDe wrote:
He did something wrong. He made a huge outrage all over Korea and the world., just because you don't think its a big deal doesnt mean paying GSL customers(aka me and many others) were upset by this. If you cant understand why people are mad your lack of social courtesy is probably on the same level as Naniwas.

Love the fact, that you're trying to lecture people on social courtesy and insult them at the same time.
Vari
Profile Joined September 2010
United States532 Posts
December 14 2011 12:24 GMT
#2193
On December 14 2011 21:23 iksi wrote:
Follow tournament rules. Get banned by the tournament. Now can someone explain me how this is making any sense. Ok, so Naniwa was a bit BM, so what ? like it was a first time you ever saw an aired live event where someone throws down a bit BM. Ok, so now we start banning ALL THE BM'ING players from EVERY major tournament. Its A KING IDEA - 2012 - ESPORTS dead.


he broke the rules
Stroke Me Lady Fame
Apachesc2
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden5 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2194
This must have been the most pathetic thing GSL have ever come up with... what a joke.
pookadin
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia422 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2195
On December 14 2011 21:18 careohx wrote:
Not only this but i also question giving free code S spots for popular players without them having to qualify. At least Naniwa did qualify. He didnt cheat or use any exploit. Korea needs to realize that SC2 is not only theirs like SC1 was and is now a global phenomenon. Things like these do not fly.


Im sorry, but last i heard GOMTV was incharge of their own tournament...they arent in charge of anything else. Your comment is idiotic.
*JYP* #1 fan! ♥♥ twitter~ @Pookadin
NGrNecris
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand855 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2196
On December 14 2011 21:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:20 -y0shi- wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:16 WArped wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:

"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."

From MC


MC is pretty much spot on. He cares about his fans, his job and has RESPECT for other people. I hope NaNi will learn from his mistakes, he will earn his respect back if he trains hard, acts respectful towards GOM and works his way through Code A again.


Mc is completly off...

" I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself"

Thats just not true.. Did you read the interviews etc?? Nani didnt want to play because he felt like he couldnt give his all and show his best match and didnt want to do some half asses games just because he has to.

Soo sad for nani >.<

What a sad excuse. THINK ABOUT IT. You think he really cared about the viewers and showing a good game when he did a probe rush? So instead of showing us a bad game, he showed us shit wrapped up in a sack lit on fire aged in a dead whale.

Just my opinion but I would rather see something like that than waste 5 more mins seeing a failed 4gate or something
Anton K
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden277 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2197
On December 14 2011 21:13 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:11 Nick3 wrote:
I guess that GOM just lost a lot of viewers! Stupid decisions from both nani and GOM.

I imagine they lost a couple

but anyone who was going to buy gsl wasn't doing it to watch naniwa. a couple of days of no good starcraft will have people coming back if they actually care about seeing high quality play.


Thats complete bullshit. There are a shit ton of Swedish Starcraft 2 fans out there and a lot of us were pumped to see naniwa compete in the GSL. Have you taken a look in this thread? Do you see the amount of swedish fans that are upset? I bought a season ticket with the only reason to watch Naniwa compete. It's now in the process of being refunded.
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2198
On December 14 2011 21:21 ander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:14 baoluvboa wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:12 ander wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:09 deth wrote:
i honestly dont know why so many people are trying to defend naniwa.

GSL is a business, naniwa is paid to play the tournament and is expected to act like a professional sportsman, especially important if he is to be playing professionally in korea.

People pay to watch GSL, the maps and games were determined beforehand. Even if the game was pointless, so many people wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea as its just a great matchup, especially with the rivalry. Then naniwa throws it and disappoints everyone who paid for the season pass, despite nani getting guaranteed prize money from the tourney.

At the very least you owe it to your fans to play the game, even if you have no motivation for doing so. Everyone arguing otherwise needs to shove away their internet pitchforks and think about it from GSL's point of view.


Few people are defending naniwa; most are upset with GSL's ridiculous, ambiguous, and over the top reaction.



ridiculous - was in their rule
ambiguous - correct in term of their rules but historical analogies set by brood war time and past incidents have established a pretty clear definite of what proper conducts are for progamers.
over the top - same as ridiculous


Point #1 - Link me please, to the rule that says "worker rushing is suspendable."
During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
Also another rule written on gom website that states they reserve the right to deny participation from players they deem unprofessional.
Point #2 - basically the definition of ambiguous. That's completely open to interpretation, which is what makes it a stupid rule.
Because it should be on a case by case basis which is why it is so ambiguous. I agree with you on this point and see your frustration. But however, judging from brood war experience, harsh punishments on Korean sc2 players (Coca byun choya), and Korean culture, Naniwa should have known better and the punishment is legitimate and consistent.



Fog-of-War
Profile Joined November 2009
United States103 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2199
Glad Naniwa had this happen to him. Hes like a little child, throwing away games...show some respect for the esport and suck it up. Or something actually bad will happen to you, like this. No code S for you.
StUfF
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1437 Posts
December 14 2011 12:25 GMT
#2200
On December 14 2011 21:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:18 Lysanias wrote:
A rule is a rule, if it says so in there rulebook then it's simple. I see no reason for 5000 posts.

It doesn't say so in the rule book. They basically made some shit up and used that because they knew half of the people would blindly accept it because their favorite little whiny pros did.


GomTV is a private company, without knowing if there was a contract between Naniwa and GomTV and the details of that contract, GomTV can do whatever the fuck they want. Ignoring rules and technicalities, I think what GomTV did was ethically right and I support their decision.

If you look at it from a business perspective, you have to understand Korea is still their biggest audience and easiest way to monetise. Without Korean support GomTV would die very quickly. Again I don't have the facts and numbers but I trust GomTV to know their bottom line.

I support their decision 100%.
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