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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:26 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:On December 14 2011 21:18 careohx wrote:
Not only this but i also question giving free code S spots for popular players without them having to qualify. At least Naniwa did qualify. He didnt cheat or use any exploit. Korea needs to realize that SC2 is not only theirs like SC1 was and is now a global phenomenon. Things like these do not fly. Fans need to realize its a Korean Product, the GSL. Even if foreigners can play in it, its their league. They run it and talk to sponsors. As mentioned before, a Korean would have suffered a way harsher penalty than that. Yeah that whole situation made me open my eyes. That's why im not gona give any more support to GOM. Since it is Korean product that benefit only Korean viewers and just does not care about anyone more. Im not Korean so bye bye GSL.
Then for the love of god quit it. Everyone who buys a GSL ticket wants to see high level Starcraft and support eSport. If you don't buy its, thats the only thing you don't do. If eSports wants to grow and be professional, you need to set standards.
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On December 14 2011 21:25 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:24 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 21:22 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:18 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 21:14 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:13 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:
"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."
From MC I think it's funny that pro-gamers advocate giving up competition in order for entertainment, as if pro gamers are entertainers who just happen to be competitors.. where does it say anything about giving up competition? Because to essentially cater to fans is anti competition. In the light of a competition where your competition has ended, and you still have a game left, you have one of two options, you either just forfeit the game like naniwa did, or you attempt to entertain fans by creating some sort of fake competitive image, which in itself just makes a mockery of real competition. If your a pro gamer the goal should be to worry about competition, not create games where you try to act like there's something on the line when there isn't. I just think it's utterly silly to bring in pro gamers to a competition, and then once it's effectively over expect them to be forced to play a fake competitive game or be banned. The only argument you could make against naniwa is that he's a dick for not just playing a fun game for his fans, but he didn't sign up for the competition to play fun games, he signed up to compete and once the competition was over he pretty much just didn't see the point in faking it. "fake competitive image"... so suddenly players can't simply want to prove they are better than other players? Why the FUCK DO THEY HAVE TO? because they agreed to it when they agreed to the tourney they were paid to play it and have some sense of self respect
Show me the contract where they signed "I will want to prove myself to be better than other players, for free."
Self respect? You're going to talk about self-respect? You, who is opennly demanding LIP SERVICE is gonna talk about self-respect? Get the fuck out of here... LOL! That shit just made my day...
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On December 14 2011 21:27 XRaDiiX wrote:
Yeah the Rule is really vague and ambiguous its a stupid rule...
GomTV Rule:GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
Wtf is so ambiguous about not being disrespectful? God, naniwa is the ONLY player I can think of that would do this. Not even idra would pull this shit.
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On December 14 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote:
Good thing i didn't buy the GSL season ticket....i will never support competitions that take childish and racist decisions based on personal grudges and to please certain players (like nestea). No fairness..no honor...no respect...just insults.
If i want to watch the best of the best i will wait for MLG...not GSL. I evaded the bigest waste of money i could have possibly made. They won...they wanted a "korean wonderland" and they got it. Good luck with your viewer database.
Tell me, please for my own sanity, that you would have the same response to the entire debacle if a Korean player did the same thing and got banned for it, which I'm sure GSL would do anyway.
People like this are the true racists here. If you have a justified complaint (which some people do) please state it, don't label a company or organizers as some flamebait term such as "racist" because you lack the etiquette to express opinions without being a dick to someone. Anything along these lines is idiotic drama generation based on zero facts and reminds me of calling the weak kid in the playground "gay" because it makes you feel big.
So tell me, anyone who believes this is racially motivated: are you a bully? Do you feel good calling people names? Or do you actually have facts and what you're stating is a truth I'm missing? Because all I see is flamebait and a pot calling the kettle black.
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This is just pathetic. Not only did they overreact, but they gave out two code S seeds to undeserving players, just because they are popular.
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On December 14 2011 21:26 lrofd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:21 ander wrote:On December 14 2011 21:14 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 21:12 ander wrote:On December 14 2011 21:09 deth wrote:
i honestly dont know why so many people are trying to defend naniwa.
GSL is a business, naniwa is paid to play the tournament and is expected to act like a professional sportsman, especially important if he is to be playing professionally in korea.
People pay to watch GSL, the maps and games were determined beforehand. Even if the game was pointless, so many people wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea as its just a great matchup, especially with the rivalry. Then naniwa throws it and disappoints everyone who paid for the season pass, despite nani getting guaranteed prize money from the tourney.
At the very least you owe it to your fans to play the game, even if you have no motivation for doing so. Everyone arguing otherwise needs to shove away their internet pitchforks and think about it from GSL's point of view. Few people are defending naniwa; most are upset with GSL's ridiculous, ambiguous, and over the top reaction. ridiculous - was in their rule ambiguous - correct in term of their rules but historical analogies set by brood war time and past incidents have established a pretty clear definite of what proper conducts are for progamers. over the top - same as ridiculous Point #1 - Link me please, to the rule that says "worker rushing is suspendable." Point #2 - basically the definition of ambiguous. That's completely open to interpretation, which is what makes it a stupid rule. Point #3 - wp. open to interprettion and the only interpretation that matters is GOM. gom want to show good games, i want to see good games...it all works. if you wanted any less, then stop watching GOM. i promise you it doesn't bother me one bit
So basically you're suggesting that GOM has made the rules loose on purpose, so they can issue suspensions whenever and wherever they want? Sounds like a cool league, doesn't it?
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In which house is naniwa practicing right now ?
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On December 14 2011 21:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:20 -y0shi- wrote:On December 14 2011 21:16 WArped wrote:On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:
"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."
From MC MC is pretty much spot on. He cares about his fans, his job and has RESPECT for other people. I hope NaNi will learn from his mistakes, he will earn his respect back if he trains hard, acts respectful towards GOM and works his way through Code A again. Mc is completly off... " I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself" Thats just not true.. Did you read the interviews etc?? Nani didnt want to play because he felt like he couldnt give his all and show his best match and didnt want to do some half asses games just because he has to. Soo sad for nani >.< What a sad excuse. THINK ABOUT IT. You think he really cared about the viewers and showing a good game when he did a probe rush? So instead of showing us a bad game, he showed us shit wrapped up in a sack lit on fire aged in a dead whale.
He chose not to waste our time with a mediocre game, what is it you don't understand?
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On December 14 2011 21:27 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:25 Sanchonator wrote:On December 14 2011 21:24 trucane wrote:On December 14 2011 21:23 eYeball wrote:
I don't know but that line with calling Naniwa a "amateur prize money hunter" really felt like below the belt from Mr.Chae. Especially considering how amateur GOM is proven by the hacking incident and the plain text non encrypted sensitive information. i believe you are mixing the GOM incident with the PSN incident ? I am not but PSN did indeed also get hacked.
Yes, GOM was most definitely hacked about a month or two ago.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51081 Posts
On December 14 2011 21:27 XRaDiiX wrote:
Yeah the Rule is really vague and ambiguous its a stupid rule...
GomTV Rule:GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
LOL and people believe kespa is worse.
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On December 14 2011 21:13 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:11 baoluvboa wrote:
"Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again."
From MC I think it's funny that pro-gamers advocate giving up competition in order for entertainment, as if pro gamers are entertainers who just happen to be competitors..
what's about giving up competition? Professional sports can't exist without sponsoring (at least in a capitalistic system), and sponsiring will be only there if you have an audience. And an audience will only remain there if it's pleased. And Naniwa screw up with a major part of the audience yesterday (If you look at the reactions), so it's right that his behavior is unprofessional and hurted the whole esports thing.
He could've done some wanky proxy dt thing or 2stargate phoenix rush. But he threw this game in such an obvious manner (didn't even micro his probes) that he obvoisly offended both, opponent and audience.
As I already said a fine would be a much better punishment, but taking back his seed (since he only got seeded and didn't qualify) is reasonable.
As far as I understood Naniwa ist not banned from GSL. So he could even try to qualify for Code A on the proper way, if he wanted to. I think he could make up a lot, if he did so!
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This isn't his first issue here guys. It's already been said 50x in this thread. Please don't pretend this is his first. The whole map thing at mlg, then his team trades him because he is so hard to handle. Nani will hopefully take something from this last year that may change him for a lifetime.
Good on gsl for taking action here. I will do my beat to buy every season from here on out. It's a professional Starcraft league. Not some fly by night shanty organization.
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On December 14 2011 21:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:27 XRaDiiX wrote:
Yeah the Rule is really vague and ambiguous its a stupid rule...
GomTV Rule:GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer. Wtf is so ambiguous about not being a douche? God, naniwa is the ONLY player I can think of that would do this. Not even idra would pull this shit.
Pretty much, its not hard to be respectful.
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On December 14 2011 21:25 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 21:18 Lysanias wrote:
A rule is a rule, if it says so in there rulebook then it's simple. I see no reason for 5000 posts. It doesn't say so in the rule book. They basically made some shit up and used that because they knew half of the people would blindly accept it because their favorite little whiny pros did. GomTV is a private company, without knowing if there was a contract between Naniwa and GomTV and the details of that contract, GomTV can do whatever the fuck they want. Ignoring rules and technicalities, I think what GomTV did was ethically right and I support their decision. If you look at it from a business perspective, you have to understand Korea is still their biggest audience and easiest way to monetise. Without Korean support GomTV would die very quickly. Again I don't have the facts and numbers but I trust GomTV to know their bottom line. I support their decision 100%.
What does being a private corporate entity have anything to do with contract law? and no Gom cannot do "whatever the fuck they want" unless stated in the contract
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I just watched the game.. and nani does make himself look worse than I thought from the comments I've read. The moment when the camera shows him sitting there without hands on keybord...
helps to put a bit more perspective to this.
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On December 14 2011 20:35 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:30 bigjenk wrote:On December 14 2011 20:27 Executor1 wrote:
I agree with huk
LorangerChris
if it was a korean player, they would be out of gsl for months, kicked out of team house, and etc. is he perma baned or just this season?
LorangerChris
As much as everyone likes to overuse "killing esports", noone actually uses in the example when it actually is. Things like this kil esports
from huks twitter. Yeah I agree with huk lets throw games because we were demoralized and then own up to it months later but then attack other people for it. Yeah man, i agree with GOM, lets revoke Code-S status to players who use silly strategies in games and fall back on our incredibly vague rulebook that can be interpreted infinitely; especially if you aren't in tune with Korean culture despite the moniker " Global Starcraft League"
I agree with you Anders this is just a silly issue and Global should mean culturally relative Clonze just owned me on my argument so yeah i switched sides
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On December 14 2011 21:24 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
Is that also "HONOUR"? Wtf
Never watching GOMTV again.
Celebrations are celebrations. They aren't a bash to a player because MOST pro-gamers are all friends with each other and wont get offended.
IN-game celebrations also apply to above. Its just a way of saying "Hey, I had a huge advantage this whole game, GG."
You can never hard prove that NesTea threw his game in the Blizzcon finals, he practices with MVP all the time, I think he would know that at one point when MVP reaches a certain # of ghosts, he doesn't lose TvZ.
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On December 14 2011 21:27 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:24 Pwnographics wrote:
GomTV got complaints that were by no means able to be ignored, they didn't suspend him just cause they felt like it.
For everyone saying, herpity derpity I won't buy a pass for - for every one of you there are two people going well done GOM. lol So if a huge crowd believes something should be done, they should just do it. Who cares, they might actually be a minority, that is just really vocal. Who cares about the rules, let's just piss on integrity and do whatever the emails demand.
You're missing the point, no one in the crowd had a problem with the minor transgressions MC and Bomber made.
People do have a problem with Naniwa and the transgression he made.
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This makes me want to buy a season pass just so I can ask for my money back. GOM
I'm fairly confident other players have forfeited matched in other tournaments without consequence.
The only one I recall that was remotely recent was when Idra was extremely fatigued from jet lag and forfeited the rest of his matches for the night and went to sleep.
Of course these circumstances are different but regardless a forfeit is a forfeit.
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GomTV did the right thing here.
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EPT
