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On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer.
Why does that matter at all? I wouldn't think that the nationality of the player was going to factor into the argument that terran is a harder race to play. You might was well make the argument that terran is harder in specific time zones.
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On December 16 2011 04:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer. Why does that matter at all? I wouldn't think that the nationality of the player was going to factor into the argument that terran is a harder race to play. You might was well make the argument that terran is harder in specific time zones.
They aren't foreigner players. That's why it matters. Unless you are korean, you won't accomplish a thing with Terran.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:53 NanaCry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played Since when does huk play zerg ? And alicia ? Puzzle ?...
Since when do ANY of those people play Bliz Cup? read the post before posting something dumb
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On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight unless they want to get face rolled.
Christ, can you PLEASE stop with the anecdotal opinionated evidence?
Oh and as far as I'm aware, focus firing banelings with siege tanks has about 5 times the effect of splitting marines.
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On December 16 2011 04:52 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight. Read my edit, then reply. 200apm is a joke compared to what it takes to properly blink micro.
Your post just backs me up. If you want to compare blink and splitting (which you really can't because blink is a teleport and is inherently a superior method of travel) then splitting the marines takes at least the same amount of APM except each marine has considerably less HP and therefore you have only a fraction of the time to react compared to controlling stalkers. I guarantee that you are completely alone in thinking that blink micro is more mechanically challenging than splitting marines.
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On December 16 2011 04:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:
[quote] What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress!
What a load of shit.
hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight. Read my edit, then reply. 200apm is a joke compared to what it takes to properly blink micro. Your post just backs me up. If you want to compare blink and splitting (which you really can't because blink is a teleport and is inherently a superior method of travel) then splitting the marines takes at least the same amount of APM except each marine has considerably less HP and therefore you have only a fraction of the time to react compared to controlling stalkers. I guarantee that you are completely alone in thinking that blink micro is more mechanically challenging than splitting marines.
yeah, but you get 3 marines for every stalker, so thats kinda fair
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On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight unless they want to get face rolled.
You clearly have never played protoss or attempted blink micro. I encourage you to...
Damn it, I can't do this. Your argument is completely baseless and amounts to "Terran is harder because I say so. I am a terran player, you are not. I am the exepert here, you are not. My word is the truth." There is no discussion to be had by compairing the number of "actions" it takes to do a specific task for a specific race. It offers no proof that one race is harder than the other.
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On December 16 2011 04:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer. Why does that matter at all? I wouldn't think that the nationality of the player was going to factor into the argument that terran is a harder race to play. You might was well make the argument that terran is harder in specific time zones.
He's not saying that Terran is harder to play because Koreans play the race more -.- He's say thing more Koreans chose Terran because they look up to Boxer. With more players playing a race -> more likely that the best players will be playing that race.
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lol protoss only has to blink micro away dying stalkers as they're losing health throughout time of the fight.
Terran has to split pregrouped hordes of infantry in less than 2-3 seconds or lose 75-100% of his bio.
When the fuck would a protoss blink micro ever be so pressing that you could say it compares to the entirety of a terrans bio force being instantly evaporated by charging banelings?
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On December 16 2011 05:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight unless they want to get face rolled. You clearly have never played protoss or attempted blink micro. I encourage you to... Damn it, I can't do this. Your argument is completely baseless and amounts to "Terran is harder because I say so. I am a terran player, you are not. I am the exepert here, you are not. My word is the truth." There is no discussion to be had by compairing the number of "actions" it takes to do a specific task for a specific race. It offers no proof that one race is harder than the other.
MLG i think (or dreamhack) at some point posted the apm's of pros. Toss had the lowest APM.
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On December 16 2011 05:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight unless they want to get face rolled. You clearly have never played protoss or attempted blink micro. I encourage you to... Damn it, I can't do this. Your argument is completely baseless and amounts to "Terran is harder because I say so. I am a terran player, you are not. I am the exepert here, you are not. My word is the truth." There is no discussion to be had by compairing the number of "actions" it takes to do a specific task for a specific race. It offers no proof that one race is harder than the other.
I have played a ton of protoss and have decent blink micro, but I main race as terran. Masters league.
Am I qualified to say that terran micro is FAR more demanding than protoss? Because it is. And your reaction time has to be incredibly good as terran. Zerglings and banelings move so fast on creep they will close the distance to your bio in a split second.
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PEOPLE. POST. SOME. GODDAMN. STATISTICS.
You can't make ridiculous claims like 'toss had lowest APM'. You can't give anecdotal advice like 'HEY TERRAN HAS THE LOWEST APM PLAYER LIKE GOODY' or 'HEY TERRAN HAS THE HIGHEST APM PLAYER AT MLG LIKE MERZ'.
Just please for the love of god try to actually discuss instead of fabricating bullshit and claiming it as facts, that goes for BOTH sides.
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On December 16 2011 04:57 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:55 Plansix wrote:On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer. Why does that matter at all? I wouldn't think that the nationality of the player was going to factor into the argument that terran is a harder race to play. You might was well make the argument that terran is harder in specific time zones. They aren't foreigner players. That's why it matters. Unless you are korean, you won't accomplish a thing with Terran.
Did blizzard install a patch that uses your IP to track where you are and nerfed terran if you arn't from Korea? Why have I not heard about this.
Seriously, this has got to be the weakest argument I have heard on this subject. What if, I think protoss is impossible unless your from Sweeden or Canada? Look at Naniwa, Sase and Huk compaired to other protoss. They win more, so it must be true.
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On December 16 2011 04:49 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer. People say this all the time but can you for the love of god please post some statistics that actually back this up?
http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/fea/1/all Looking at this link his statement seems to be true. There seems to be more terran players in master, diamond, silver and bronze league. Platinum and gold is very close to the point that there would be more terrans than protoss or zergs.
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France12908 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:52 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight. Read my edit, then reply. 200apm is a joke compared to what it takes to properly blink micro.
You are the joke lol.
Why do you think most of the pro players who have RSI problems... play terran?
Why do you think that when you are a 30 year old BW legend terran you can get stuck in code B the majority of the year, whereas when you are a 30 year old BW 2v2 coach zerg you can win 3 GSL?
Why do you think that Mvp who was basically invincible in TvZ is starting to lose a lot more in this particular match-up, as much as the time is passing? (ie : RSI problems)
Terran is really hard to play and saying otherwise will not help you proving your "point"
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Does the sun rise everyday?
If you say so, you better show me proof. I demand an article from the New York Times or a highly recognized scientific journal as proof.
Until then, please stop saying the sun rises everyday if you are not willing to show me a credible publication's statistics.
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On December 16 2011 04:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:51 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 04:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:43 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:35 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:
[quote] What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress!
What a load of shit.
hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are. Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it? I mentioned stargate/robo vs factory/starport in reply to the post i was responding to, not saying that Terran should be going mech or anything stupid like that against toss, don't put words in my mouth. And blink micro is not blinking a blob of stalkers from one place to another it is attacking with a large group of stalkers and individually blinking them back when their shields are depleted, it requires an insane amount of apm and focus to do properly, about on the same level as splitting marines against speed banes. Edit: It was my username before I even knew about the existence of the team, used it since back in beta. What insane APM does blink micro require? It is quite literally 2 actions per stalker. You click B and then you left click some distance in the direction you want to blink. What insane apm does splitting marines against banelings require? Its quite literally 1 action per marine, you just left click on the ground in a spot away from your other marines (yes that's how stupid it sounds when you say it too) You have clearly never played terran or attempted to split marines. I encourage you to watch a Terran stream and witness how much APM goes into splitting/target firing banelings. And that is just the marines, in order to win a battle with terran you need to be doing a whole lot more on top of just splitting. But as you obviously have no experience with Terran and are just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are actually getting defensive because you feel like this thread is attacking you as a Protoss player, I don't feel like I can continue to discuss with you. Let me know when you come to the realization that any semi-competent terran needs to have 200+ apm in a fight. Read my edit, then reply. 200apm is a joke compared to what it takes to properly blink micro. Your post just backs me up. If you want to compare blink and splitting (which you really can't because blink is a teleport and is inherently a superior method of travel) then splitting the marines takes at least the same amount of APM except each marine has considerably less HP and therefore you have only a fraction of the time to react compared to controlling stalkers. I guarantee that you are completely alone in thinking that blink micro is more mechanically challenging than splitting marines.
Yes I was saying that blink micro is roughly equal to splitting marines, and not "easier then stutter step" like some people were claiming, thanks for agreeing with me. Also stalkers have to be blinked at the exact time that their shields drop and you don't have as much time before the action to prepare like you do with marine splitting (you start as soon and you know the banes are coming not as soon as they hit the front lines of the marines). Also a single marine has more dps then a single stalker but costs a third the minerals, so losing 2/3 of your marines while splitting from banes is still more cost effective then losing a single stalker while using blink micro.
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On December 16 2011 05:05 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:49 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 04:47 Recognizable wrote:On December 16 2011 04:45 Pirat6662001 wrote:On December 16 2011 04:26 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 04:20 Toppp wrote:
TvP seems pretty fucking impossible to win right now. totally impossible. thats why theres no protoss in the final of the blizzard cup. they were all too hard to beat and had to go home -.- Lets compare the talent that is there? Terrans have - MVP the best player in the world and Polt and MMA both won GSL Toss have- MC- won two gsl, made it through Hero- no gsl results of note Naniwa- foreigner, failed in code A Terrans were straight up better players who would win no matter what race they played They are also all koreans. Korea has the most terrans. Why? Boxer. People say this all the time but can you for the love of god please post some statistics that actually back this up? http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/fea/1/all Looking at this link his statement seems to be true. There seems to be more terran players in master, diamond, silver and bronze league. Platinum and gold is very close to the point that there would be more terrans than protoss or zergs.
I mean 'korea has most terrans because of boxer'. Going across all leagues, P are roughly equally played as T.
But let me guess, despite that evidence it's because 'more players WOULD play protoss if not for boxer' or some other unarguable bullshit. This whole discussion has been one opinionated sewer of people screaming at eachother.
On December 16 2011 05:08 SystemAddict wrote:
Does the sun rise everyday?
If you say so, you better show me proof. I demand an article from the New York Times or a highly recognized scientific journal as proof.
Until then, please stop saying the sun rises everyday if you are not willing to show me a credible publication's statistics.
Hey man, everyone knows Protoss is the worst race! It's just like the sun rising everyday! If you don't know it, you're just dumb.
Seriously don't exaggerate to get around the point, things as opinionated as this are NOT as clear as night and day (in the most literal sense of the word).
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Nice try avoiding the point.
The point still stands, the sun does not rise everyday unless you can prove it.
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<3
EPT
