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On December 16 2011 03:17 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:13 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:07 petro1987 wrote:On December 16 2011 03:00 Fig wrote:
The main problem is that terran was designed to allow for plenty of micro to make its units more effective. The other races were not given nearly as many microable units. Being the only race that has so many units that are microable is a blessing and a curse. On one hand the best terrans can extract more value from their units than players of other races can. This is a big reason why terrans dominated for about the first 9 months of the game. However this domination meant that balance changes were made to give the other races more of a chance.
However the balance changes that occurred were NOT the right way of going about it.
They just made some units stronger and some weaker. Instead, Blizzard should be adding microability to the other races. Then every race has a high level of depth that scales with player skill.
TLDR: Terrans shouldn't be asking for less micro. That's how Blizzard got away with introducing the stupid idea of the no-micro Battle Hellion. Terrans should instead be asking for Blizzard to add more micro to the other races. This is a very reasonable post. It shows that not everyone is completely biased and there's hope after all =D. On topic, we are not asking for less micro to Terran. We are asking for the other races to made harder, just how you pointed out. It's Blizzard that is looking for an easier solution to the matter (battle-hellion, for instance). I already posted about this a few pages back, but I'll post it again: On December 16 2011 02:39 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play. I agree but on the flipside, I think you too can know that not all races can be created equal, it's simply impossible. By example, you can look at BW - Protoss was generally considered a much easier race, but also quite a bit worse at the highest levels (with T being the best). I think this is a design issue already ingrained in SC2, and frankly unfixable at this point. You know that too. If you make protoss and zerg balanced around the 'same level of skill' for whatever amount that is measurable, you basically destroy them because they simply have much less opportunity for such things. If T as a race dominates, it'll become boring (I'm sure gomtvt felt the subscriber hit which is why they added Calm before the Storm). If T as a race is harder, the matchmaking system will hide it from most of the general masses and the pros will simply practice harder. I know what the better alternative is here. As I said, this isn't a design issue that's fixable. Blizzard will walk a fine line between balance and skill requirement, just like BW but in the end it's IMPOSSIBLE to get both completely equal. You've said this isn't a balance whine thread. But it sure as HELL has the quality of one, with Terran QQ and mindless bias holding the general tone. This discussion doesn't really lead anywhere anyway. I really wish this thread would just get locked. I do agree that it's impossible to get everything completely equal. But Blizzard has an opportunity in HotS (I know design can't be changed in WoL anymore) to make things a lot closer.
But you know it won't happen because this isn't a simple design issue. There's similar issues that aren't going away either, like P's inherent supply efficiency due to expensive/synergizing units, the lack of defender's advantage due to balancing around warpgates, the list goes on. This is just another design flaw that will be balanced around, not removed. For better or for worse. You know this too.
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On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys.
To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math).
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On December 16 2011 03:15 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:11 YipMan wrote:
xUnSeEnx, you are a punch in the face of the U.S. education system. Lmao The irony of this post... And did I read correctly? Protoss players are now claiming that warpgate is a disadvantage somehow? You know you don't HAVE to research it, right? You can also turn warpgates back into gateways. I'll be waiting for this new metagame shift where protoss players opt not to get warpgate tech because it is more effective to use gateways. Oh wait... that is totally ridiculous.
Not exactly
The argument is that a drawback of WG is that you have to leave the battle to warp in units, that is a disadvantage. Obviously being able to warp anywhere there is a pylon is a much bigger plus.
Argument was that if WG was to be removed, P units would probably need a buff to compensate, which will only make late game ball stronger. Plenty of people on this thread who whine about WG mechanics would be crying even more about that. At least thats what i meant
edit:
And yes some people would find it a lot easier to be able to queue at lower leagues than to warp in units and miss those warp in battle etc or due to simply forgetting to macro. But in current state not having WG is too much of a disadvantage
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On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math).
You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware.
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After playing 20 protoss in a row today. (not kidding lulz) and just being mindfucked about the fucking 50 all ins they can do and still lose in a lategame situation I am seriously thinking about switching as well. I can't stand this bullshit anymore lol.
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On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math).
I think the idea behind larvae injects or rather the parallel is building supply depots/pylons which a protoss or terran player should be doing every 40 seconds or so.
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On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware.
I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it.
Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away.
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On December 16 2011 03:15 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:11 YipMan wrote:
xUnSeEnx, you are a punch in the face of the U.S. education system. Lmao The irony of this post... And did I read correctly? Protoss players are now claiming that warpgate is a disadvantage somehow? You know you don't HAVE to research it, right? You can also turn warpgates back into gateways. I'll be waiting for this new metagame shift where protoss players opt not to get warpgate tech because it is more effective to use gateways. Oh wait... that is totally ridiculous.
As im not a native speaker nor that i used the US edu system it seems very ironic, yea. And no, you did NOT read correctly. Good we solved that.
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On December 16 2011 03:21 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). I think the idea behind larvae injects or rather the parallel is building supply depots/pylons which a protoss or terran player should be doing every 40 seconds or so.
Okay, so all races need to look away for a second or more anyhow. Problem solved 
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On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye.
Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran".
It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are.
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On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away.
Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push).
I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle.
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On December 16 2011 03:20 Recognizable wrote:
After playing 20 protoss in a row today. (not kidding lulz) and just being mindfucked about the fucking 50 all ins they can do and still lose in a lategame situation I am seriously thinking about switching as well. I can't stand this bullshit anymore lol.
I share ur pain :D Dt rush, 3 gate robo (immortal busts), 1 base colo, 4 gate (sucks, not so viable) and the list goes on. U can scout them and u still have to micro ur ass off to defend them at 2 or 1 rax exp. And sometimes when protoss just rolls whit full ups I get mad and just 1-1-1 the shit out of them. That MU is so fucking weird.
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On December 16 2011 03:25 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away. Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push). I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle.
Seriously? Protoss players in nearly every GSL game make a proxy pylon or two to support attacks. For example, yesterday in MC vs DRG, in both games 2 and 3 (the games where MR did warp gate pushes), he had proxy pylons and was warping in much closer to battle.
Not to mention, if players want their new units to support their old ones, they almost always need to look away to a-move them in anyhow, single you don't want to rally into a spot where units get attacked. This is a problem in TvZ for example, as Zergs will often attack a Terran's line of reinforcements.
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On December 16 2011 03:30 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:25 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away. Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push). I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle. Seriously? Protoss players in nearly every GSL game make a proxy pylon or two to support attacks. For example, yesterday in MC vs DRG, in both games 2 and 3 (the games where MR did warp gate pushes), he had proxy pylons and was warping in much closer to battle. Not to mention, if players want their new units to support their old ones, they almost always need to look away to a-move them in anyhow, single you don't want to rally into a spot where units get attacked. This is a problem in TvZ for example, as Zergs will often attack a Terran's line of reinforcements.
We aren't talking about proxy pylons we are talking about the issue with having to pan away from the battle to warp in, no matter how close the pylon is it really isn't feasible to have it on the screen at the same time as your main army.
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On December 16 2011 03:30 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:25 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away. Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push). I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle. Seriously? Protoss players in nearly every GSL game make a proxy pylon or two to support attacks. For example, yesterday in MC vs DRG, in both games 2 and 3 (the games where MR did warp gate pushes), he had proxy pylons and was warping in much closer to battle. Not to mention, if players want their new units to support their old ones, they almost always need to look away to a-move them in anyhow, single you don't want to rally into a spot where units get attacked. This is a problem in TvZ for example, as Zergs will often attack a Terran's line of reinforcements.
Actually this is a good thing to do obviously, but you can't always pick where your battle will be. Though if your pushing his nat etc, there's no reason not to build a proxy pylon. Also late game bringing WP is nice, especially if there are no corruptors or you have enough colossi to divert attention
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On December 16 2011 03:19 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:17 petro1987 wrote:On December 16 2011 03:13 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:07 petro1987 wrote:On December 16 2011 03:00 Fig wrote:
The main problem is that terran was designed to allow for plenty of micro to make its units more effective. The other races were not given nearly as many microable units. Being the only race that has so many units that are microable is a blessing and a curse. On one hand the best terrans can extract more value from their units than players of other races can. This is a big reason why terrans dominated for about the first 9 months of the game. However this domination meant that balance changes were made to give the other races more of a chance.
However the balance changes that occurred were NOT the right way of going about it.
They just made some units stronger and some weaker. Instead, Blizzard should be adding microability to the other races. Then every race has a high level of depth that scales with player skill.
TLDR: Terrans shouldn't be asking for less micro. That's how Blizzard got away with introducing the stupid idea of the no-micro Battle Hellion. Terrans should instead be asking for Blizzard to add more micro to the other races. This is a very reasonable post. It shows that not everyone is completely biased and there's hope after all =D. On topic, we are not asking for less micro to Terran. We are asking for the other races to made harder, just how you pointed out. It's Blizzard that is looking for an easier solution to the matter (battle-hellion, for instance). I already posted about this a few pages back, but I'll post it again: On December 16 2011 02:39 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play. I agree but on the flipside, I think you too can know that not all races can be created equal, it's simply impossible. By example, you can look at BW - Protoss was generally considered a much easier race, but also quite a bit worse at the highest levels (with T being the best). I think this is a design issue already ingrained in SC2, and frankly unfixable at this point. You know that too. If you make protoss and zerg balanced around the 'same level of skill' for whatever amount that is measurable, you basically destroy them because they simply have much less opportunity for such things. If T as a race dominates, it'll become boring (I'm sure gomtvt felt the subscriber hit which is why they added Calm before the Storm). If T as a race is harder, the matchmaking system will hide it from most of the general masses and the pros will simply practice harder. I know what the better alternative is here. As I said, this isn't a design issue that's fixable. Blizzard will walk a fine line between balance and skill requirement, just like BW but in the end it's IMPOSSIBLE to get both completely equal. You've said this isn't a balance whine thread. But it sure as HELL has the quality of one, with Terran QQ and mindless bias holding the general tone. This discussion doesn't really lead anywhere anyway. I really wish this thread would just get locked. I do agree that it's impossible to get everything completely equal. But Blizzard has an opportunity in HotS (I know design can't be changed in WoL anymore) to make things a lot closer. But you know it won't happen because this isn't a simple design issue. There's similar issues that aren't going away either, like P's inherent supply efficiency due to expensive/synergizing units, the lack of defender's advantage due to balancing around warpgates, the list goes on. This is just another design flaw that will be balanced around, not removed. For better or for worse. You know this too.
Protoss (in non-PvP) have a big defender's advantage against non-flying units in that they can forcefield ramps/chokes. This is especially true early in the game, before the Protoss efficiency starts to kick in.
Ramps are basically useless to Zerg, while for Protoss, they're a huge offenseive (split armies) or defenseive (don't let army in) weapon.
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On December 16 2011 03:32 Gunther wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:30 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:25 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away. Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push). I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle. Seriously? Protoss players in nearly every GSL game make a proxy pylon or two to support attacks. For example, yesterday in MC vs DRG, in both games 2 and 3 (the games where MR did warp gate pushes), he had proxy pylons and was warping in much closer to battle. Not to mention, if players want their new units to support their old ones, they almost always need to look away to a-move them in anyhow, single you don't want to rally into a spot where units get attacked. This is a problem in TvZ for example, as Zergs will often attack a Terran's line of reinforcements. We aren't talking about proxy pylons we are talking about the issue with having to pan away from the battle to warp in, no matter how close the pylon is it really isn't feasible to have it on the screen at the same time as your main army.
Depends on the map/hill situation.
All races have to move the screen to reinforce anyhow, unless they want to automatically move-command their units into battle, and possibly get killed for free by some Zerglings/etc cutting off resupply lines.
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On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are.
Anyone and everyone would gladly trade terran or zerg production for warpgates. There is no downside to it, you have to look away for 1 second in order to instantly gain reinforcements wherever you want. Terran has to do much more splitting than Protoss ever will. Stutter stepping is much more difficult than blink micro. You can't even consider blink micro. You click a button and your unit teleports. Blink is consistently the strongest ability in any strategy game and in no game would anyone consider using blink as skill intensive. It's funny that you mention robo/stargate in comparison to factory/starport because many top level protoss rely heavily on the robo/stargate tech whereas Terrans almost never use factory/starport tech aside from medivacs and rarely banshees (almost never now). Vikings are only useful for the fact that they are the sole unit that can combat stargate/robo tech. Ill ask again, are you actually in the team gosu? Or did you just happen to make a username with the word gosu in it?
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On December 16 2011 03:25 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. Man Terran has it easy, hotkey all production facilities and keep pumping out units during battle using hotkeys only, while still able to micro. Whereas Protoss has to pan away from the battle to the nearest pylon (stopping all micro) and Individually click their mouse for each unit they want. A little more action intensive then 3aaaa*tab*ss. Not to mention Protoss has to have 2-3 hotkeys for each type of caster to spit from emps effectively. (and Protoss has much more caster/ability micro in battle then Terran). Stutter stepping is a joke and anyone who complains about having to do it belongs in bronze league, and its not even Terran exclusive Protoss use lots of stutter step micro too, not to forget blink micro, which is several orders of magnitude more difficult and apm intensive. And Protoss players wish they could pump out units from the robo/stargate like terrans do from the starport/factory, only our stargate units are overpriced and ineffective, and our robo units are also overpriced and can only be made in certain quantities before they start to lose effectiveness so it make complete sense that "they will never produce like a Terran". It sad how worked up you get, because you are probably one of the Terrans whose ladder ranking was artificially inflated when Terran was OP, and now that they aren't you cant handle the fact that you are lower on the ladder then you were before. So you blame it on imbalance, or the other races just being easier, or some other such nonsense so that you don't have to face the fact that you are not as good of a player as you think you are.
Yes because producing from 4 different types of production facilitys while moving around on the map and later kiting chargelots and dodging forcefields and storms and controlling vikings are ezpz, yeah you gotta go back to add supply depos too. It's so hard to cast the spells with smart cast and while your chargelots makes the terran kiting for his life you take 1 second to go back to the closest pylon that you also have saved screen on and warp in. And I personally find Blink micro one of the easier micro abilitys in this game. Would you mind telling me what makes blink micro so hard?
And fyi my ladder ranking hasn't changed because Terran was OP and I abused it and now I suck shit because I can't cheese to victory, I'm playing Random on EU Master, well more T and Z now because I feel dirty playing Protoss.
Anyway, leaving this thread. It's just shitstorm between biased toss player thinking they have a hell of a time and shitting on Terran players once again like it's a walk in the park playing T when everyone who is not super biased knows that you are forced to have better mechanics and really outplay your opponent if you wanna win.
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On December 16 2011 03:30 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:25 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:22 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:20 Serelitz wrote:On December 16 2011 03:19 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 03:08 Gunther wrote:On December 16 2011 03:03 Termit wrote:On December 16 2011 02:55 lizzard_warish wrote:On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress! What a load of shit. hahaha! What about one hotkey for CC's, one for rax, one for factory one for starport that you constantly produce from. While you as protoss doesn't even need to hotkey your fucking warpgates because you press W and the letter for your god damn unit. And then semi-produce from stargate and robo but you will never produce from them like a Terran does. It's sad how offended you got because you are probably one of these 85 EAPM guys that struggle hardcore with Protoss mechanics. I just pray to higher powers that some day Blizzard get some fucking sense and removes warpgates so Protoss players have to learn to produce from gateways all game long without quing and keeping up production and have to rally their units instead of having the luctury to kill defenders advantage and spawn units where ever they want. Bye. I think that would make it easier to be honest. The unfortunate problem with Protoss is they have to look away to warp units in during a fight, while both Terran and Zerg don't need to look away and can use their hotkeys. To be fair, Zerg don't have to look away to warp in units, but they do have to look away to larva inject. Without larva inject they'll only make half as many units or something (note: I didn't do the math). You can inject via minimap (though its less viable). You can't with warp=ins as far as I'm aware. I have watched a lot of Zerg streams, and I don't see people inject with minimap. Maybe once in a while they do, but I don't see it. Protoss can also just build pylons near battles. I see Protoss warp into battle all the time. Problem solved--no looking away. Not really, since at that point your units/pylon can be sniped and your push is denied. I can't really recall what game it was, but either the KSL or the GSL had a game yesterday/today where the Protoss did that on Bel'shir beach at the 3rd, got flanked and lost 7 warping stalkers (and consequently lost the momentum/push). I personally prefer injecting via minimap when I offrace as Z though that's anecdotal as much as your evidence is. Fact is it's a viable method, much moreso than warping in near the battle. Seriously? Protoss players in nearly every GSL game make a proxy pylon or two to support attacks. For example, yesterday in MC vs DRG, in both games 2 and 3 (the games where MR did warp gate pushes), he had proxy pylons and was warping in much closer to battle. Not to mention, if players want their new units to support their old ones, they almost always need to look away to a-move them in anyhow, single you don't want to rally into a spot where units get attacked. This is a problem in TvZ for example, as Zergs will often attack a Terran's line of reinforcements.
You said near battles as in on the same screen. The distance you move away from the battle doesn't really matter, minimap clicking is instant. You're still not paying attention to the battle.
And your idea would count if T was balanced around constant reinforcements (like P with proxy pylons and removing the defenders' reinforcement advantage). It isn't. You regularly see pro's handle that not by amoving but by moving reinforcements in balls after gathering a few cycles of them (helps vs counterattacks too).
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EPT
