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On December 16 2011 02:46 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:43 -_- wrote:On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. That is a very important point. Professional players understand the game very well, and the fact that a Terran progamer thinks that Terran is the most difficult race is something to remember. However, and this is not a rhetorical question, would you feel the same about the issue if a Protoss progamer said that Protoss is the most difficult race to play. Now, as far I know, none have made that claim in this thread. But just as a hypothetical, if Huk comes into this thread and states: "Protoss it the most difficult race; because of the mobility of Z and T every time you move out on the map is a dive into shark infested waters" would you submit to his authority? Beasty's comment is certainly insightful. And who are you exactly? A pro protoss? I did not think so, Huk is an amazing toss player who would not come in here complaining because he knows that terran has it the hardest (I can almost guarantee). Hero is an amazing toss player. Need I go on? But a good player would tell you that terran is the hardest to play AKA not Incontrol.
Guess that are facts again right? /sigh...
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On December 16 2011 02:41 halfies wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. well, if you ask idra how hard terran is, you'll get different answer, and the idea that pros are unbiased is ridiculous. actually think before you ask people to leave, and maybe you wont look so stupid
Let me know when IdrA actually acts on his assertions and switches to Terran. He won't, because it would be the end of his career and he would fall down into the relative obscurity of foreign Terran pros. There have already been a number of Terran pros switch to different races. Actions speak louder than words.
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On December 16 2011 02:47 YipMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:46 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:43 -_- wrote:On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. That is a very important point. Professional players understand the game very well, and the fact that a Terran progamer thinks that Terran is the most difficult race is something to remember. However, and this is not a rhetorical question, would you feel the same about the issue if a Protoss progamer said that Protoss is the most difficult race to play. Now, as far I know, none have made that claim in this thread. But just as a hypothetical, if Huk comes into this thread and states: "Protoss it the most difficult race; because of the mobility of Z and T every time you move out on the map is a dive into shark infested waters" would you submit to his authority? Beasty's comment is certainly insightful. And who are you exactly? A pro protoss? I did not think so, Huk is an amazing toss player who would not come in here complaining because he knows that terran has it the hardest (I can almost guarantee). Hero is an amazing toss player. Need I go on? But a good player would tell you that terran is the hardest to play AKA not Incontrol. Guess that are facts again right? /sigh...
Lol, it has been like that since Broodwar, I am assuming you just joined the SC community when SC2 came out?
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On December 16 2011 02:45 aderum wrote:
Idra has said the zerg is A LOT harder than the other races since the release too, so i dont see the point of "OMG a pro agreed that it is harder"
Some people have to attribute their losses on something else rather than their bad play, they want only TvTs in GOM.
I havent seen MVP, MMA, Polt, or ForGG complain about how weak terran is and so much harder than the zerg, quite the opposite zergs complain about how much more APM they need to be on the same level as other races.
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On December 16 2011 02:45 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:42 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. Exactly why I didn't want to get involved. You do know the definition of "anecdotal evidence," right? It doesn't matter who it comes from, it's still "anecdotal." An expert in the field of microbiology could say that microbes are smarter than humans, but that doesn't make it true. I find this whole "it's all anedoctal" thought rather interesting. So even if everyone (that's is not obviously biased) is saying the SAME THING it's still anedoctal? So when does it stop being anedoctal? When god comes down to earth and tell you?
Look up the goddamn definition of anecdotal evidence, then look up the definition of a scientifically supported hypothesis, then you tell me when it stops being anecdotal. Jesus, it's not like I'm the one that decides what's anecdotal and what's not- it's the definition of the word.
I even gave an example of how you would go about making it a scientifically supported hypothesis IN MY POST. It's like you aren't even reading.
Disclaimer: I don't have an opinion about what races are OP/UP. So don't start bashing me for unrelated crap.
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On December 16 2011 02:41 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. please dont direct this at me, open up the quotations and do note who started blabbing about 'facts' straight out of their ass. I also dont see the funny part about my personal experience of reaching the same ladder rank as Protoss with a 1/3 of the effort I had to put in when I was playing Terran.
I could bet you money that it would take me 1/3 of the effort to reach my rank as P if i switch to T (which isnt too high to be fair). Why? Because I learned a lot of basics/mechanics while starting as Protoss that will transfer to other races.
Actually I wanted to switch to T on my smurf but after watching TvTs... just doesnt seem to appealing
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On December 16 2011 02:48 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:41 halfies wrote:On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. well, if you ask idra how hard terran is, you'll get different answer, and the idea that pros are unbiased is ridiculous. actually think before you ask people to leave, and maybe you wont look so stupid Let me know when IdrA actually acts on his assertions and switches to Terran. He won't, because it would be the end of his career and he would fall down into the relative obscurity of foreign Terran pros. There have already been a number of Terran pros switch to different races. Actions speak louder than words.
This man speaks the truth. Actions speak way louder than words. And you won't see Idra switch to terran ever. Also, Idra has been complaining about balance since Brood War.
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TvZ and TvT are pretty well balanced. It's TvP which is the trouble. I don't think any sane person would refute that Terran is the most mechanically difficult race. As I said before, and as QT said, all Terrans want is to make Protoss and Zerg have a higher skill ceiling / more mechanically demanding.
Make charge manual and not automatically do damage.
Make Colossus have to manually be charged / have FF.
etc. etc.
I'm sure there is a lot more that could be worked on to make the game more difficult overall, at least to bring some semblance of equality of opportunity / skill with the races. One race shouldn't have to take 25% more APM to play on an equal footing with the others.
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On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/2131_Empire.Beastyqt
worst winrate vs Terran,
winrates vs the ''easy'' races much higher
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Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players.
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On December 16 2011 02:48 Ryps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:45 aderum wrote:
Idra has said the zerg is A LOT harder than the other races since the release too, so i dont see the point of "OMG a pro agreed that it is harder" Because some people have to attribute their losses on something else rather than their bad play, they want only TvTs in GOM. I havent seen MVP, MMA, Polt, or ForGG complain about how weak terran is and so much harder than the zerg, quite the opposite zergs complain about how much more APM they need to be on the same level as other races.
The problem is, sub par broodwar players are complaining because they are not as good as newer players coming in from Broodwar. Practically anyone who switched over to SC2 (minus maybe 5 or 6 pros) were mediocre if not horrible broodwar players (AKA did not win anything, their career was going in a downward spiral before they joined, aka they won absolutely nothing but were on a pro team nonetheless, aka were WC3 pros (ROFL) )
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On December 16 2011 02:46 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:43 -_- wrote:On December 16 2011 02:37 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. Except a pro just posted here and agreed that Terran is alot harder than Zerg/Protoss, leave now please. That is a very important point. Professional players understand the game very well, and the fact that a Terran progamer thinks that Terran is the most difficult race is something to remember. However, and this is not a rhetorical question, would you feel the same about the issue if a Protoss progamer said that Protoss is the most difficult race to play. Now, as far I know, none have made that claim in this thread. But just as a hypothetical, if Huk comes into this thread and states: "Protoss it the most difficult race; because of the mobility of Z and T every time you move out on the map is a dive into shark infested waters" would you submit to his authority? Beasty's comment is certainly insightful. And who are you exactly? A pro protoss? I did not think so, Huk is an amazing toss player who would not come in here complaining because he knows that terran has it the hardest (I can almost guarantee). Hero is an amazing toss player. Need I go on? But a good player would tell you that terran is the hardest to play AKA not Incontrol.
No, I'm certainly not a pro Protoss player. I think I may have worded my post incorrectly. The truth is, I don't know if any high level Protoss players have complained about Protoss being the most difficult race to play. However, that's not what I'm trying to get at, and I apologize for writing out my post a little to quickly to be clear.
I want to know what would you say if a quality Protoss player comes in this thread and says Protoss is the most difficult race. I know you think this is unlikely. In fact, I agree that it's unlikely! However, treat this like the hypothetical: "What would you do if the Sun blinks off at midnight tonight." If scientists can be trusted, that's probably not going to happen. But you can learn a lot from the hypothetical.
The general point I'm trying to get at is how far should our respect of pro players go.
And by the way, I sympathize with the fact that a lot of Protoss players are getting on your nerves right now. I hope not to be one of them!
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On December 16 2011 02:48 Ryps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:45 aderum wrote:
Idra has said the zerg is A LOT harder than the other races since the release too, so i dont see the point of "OMG a pro agreed that it is harder" Some people have to attribute their losses on something else rather than their bad play, they want only TvTs in GOM. I havent seen MVP, MMA, Polt, or ForGG complain about how weak terran is and so much harder than the zerg, quite the opposite zergs complain about how much more APM they need to be on the same level as other races.
Eh, all I've seen from Zerg's is their complaining of Ghosts because that is one of the only decent Terran options in lategame TvZ against both Blord/Festor and Tech switch into Ultra.
It's not much, but to me TvZ is pretty well balanced, and it 'feels' like the better player usually wins this MU, which can't be said for TvP. The T player can have better multi-task, micro, and macro, and still lose to an inferior player. I guess we are back to the old tired argument that SC2 needs a higher skill ceiling and more ways for better players to gain advantages over inferior players.
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On December 16 2011 02:51 ToInfinity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/2131_Empire.Beastyqtworst winrate vs Terran, winrates vs the ''easy'' races much higher
Beasty is a beast, he might have a lower winrate against terrans, but have you ever thought its because he plays really good terrans? Lol stop while you are ahead.
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I think because the fundamentals are exactly the same and have been like year now for terran. Like biomech for TvZ and TvP only bio is viable, and even the spooniest terran "Goody" who plays mech all the time have stated that mech is no longer viable against protoss due to immobility.
And sometimes 2 bases is all that protoss needs to beat terran who has third and better economy. I personally find zealot tanking VERY HARD (whit fast a ups). In lower levels (like diamond and below) a move is all that protoss needs. That becomes very irritating that u cant beat protoss whit decent or even ups on even supply if u dont hit the perfect emps or snipe all HTs and colossi. I never had trouble whit zergs, TvP is just so darn hard when P just sits 2 base and rolls.
Low-level terrans are kinda f*ckd right now, so i hope the HOTS will make mech more viable and strong against even most fiersome P and Z army. Only thing what im afraid of again is the mobility. No high mobility units like vulture in BW, where maps were designed taht way that u could do raids and runbys whit them. In sc2 u just cant risk all times ur all viable hellions.
There was a time when T:s were clearly Overpovered, but its over. Now its the most demanding race apm vice at lower levels to succeed greatly.
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On December 16 2011 02:43 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:29 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:20 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Wow your arguments are so sad. Minigun plays zerg on just about as high lvl as his protoss. The reason PRO terran can offrace and still do fine is because they are PROS, and vastly better and everybody else even in GM on everything. God, its pathetic to see Terran whining when their race have been dominating for a good 1,5 years. You can complain about balance, if you bring up good points, but simply stating "LOLOLOL Terran is SO much harder to play" is stupid. This is just what zerg did when they were slumping as worst. Its a stupid argument, each race requires a lot from the player. funny you should mention Minigun, because I clearly remember when he thought that T was OMG SO EZ AND OP and decided to stream as he laddered his smurf T account. for the first 50-ish or so games he and his chat were OLOLOLOLOL T SO EZ T+1A TO MASTERS LOOLLO (np GM back then) then Minigun started hitting up players whose macro was as good as his own and i gotta tell you, seeing 150 supply worth of MM being stimmed and 1a'd into banelings is not a pretty sight. I dont think he offraces as Terran anymore Funny how you disregard all my other points. And i wasnt even making a point about minigun being good with Terran.
Err, its because I do not wish to get involved in the pointless argument you were having with that other poster?
You mentioned Minigun and how well was his Zerg offrace, I just gave you some additional food for thought on the matter.
And you were making the argument that Terran being harder is a stupid statement, so my little story is quite relevant imo
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On December 16 2011 02:51 Termit wrote:
Yea Protoss is cosidered an easier and more beginner friendly race in BW but because of the mechanics in that game you still had to have skill to not suck ass when it came to army control and macro. Too bad sc2 makes it possible to be in the highest league on the ladder with like 85 EAPM when you play Protoss. The same goes for Zerg, because of larva injects and MBS any player, good mechanics or not can spend upp all his larva, remax and rally 40 lings into your main in a heartbeat, while it at least took some effort to spend your larva in BW, rallying every hatch to your opponens base like in sc2 can only the real gosus do in time in BW too but now everyone can do it.
I don't know how Blizzard would increase the mechanical part for Z and P but I don't think it will ever happen. In the end it will just be like in BW, every foreigner is gonna play P and Z and a few T while the real korean gosu players will be sick in the head with Terran because they are amazing players. What mechanics exist for terran pray tell? one hotkey for all your buildings, hold down a letter. ZOMG the stress!
What a load of shit.
User was warned for this post
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On December 16 2011 02:54 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:43 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:29 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:20 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Wow your arguments are so sad. Minigun plays zerg on just about as high lvl as his protoss. The reason PRO terran can offrace and still do fine is because they are PROS, and vastly better and everybody else even in GM on everything. God, its pathetic to see Terran whining when their race have been dominating for a good 1,5 years. You can complain about balance, if you bring up good points, but simply stating "LOLOLOL Terran is SO much harder to play" is stupid. This is just what zerg did when they were slumping as worst. Its a stupid argument, each race requires a lot from the player. funny you should mention Minigun, because I clearly remember when he thought that T was OMG SO EZ AND OP and decided to stream as he laddered his smurf T account. for the first 50-ish or so games he and his chat were OLOLOLOLOL T SO EZ T+1A TO MASTERS LOOLLO (np GM back then) then Minigun started hitting up players whose macro was as good as his own and i gotta tell you, seeing 150 supply worth of MM being stimmed and 1a'd into banelings is not a pretty sight. I dont think he offraces as Terran anymore Funny how you disregard all my other points. And i wasnt even making a point about minigun being good with Terran. Err, its because I do not wish to get involved in the pointless argument you were having with that other poster? You mentioned Minigun and how well was his Zerg offrace, I just gave you some additional food for thought on the matter. And you were making the argument that Terran being harder is a stupid statement, so my little story is quite relevant imo
Its not relevant to him because you blew his argument into the sky (meaning he lost). :D
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On December 16 2011 02:49 iokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:41 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:34 Gelenn wrote:On December 16 2011 02:19 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. how are those 'facts' made up when the majority of Terrans in this thread are reporting better results after switching to Toss/Zerg? i think its your ass that should be hauled to blizz's forums, kiddo I really didn't want to get involved in this shitstorm of a thread, but I just wanted to point out that anecdotal evidence does not count as "fact" and there is this little thing called "reporting bias"- you're obviously going to get way more terrans supporting the idea that their race is the hardest when asking about it on a thread that has the most interest to a player who already feels that way. If you want to actually want to establish this as a "fact," you would have to support it by taking a random sampling of zerg, terran, and protoss from the ladder, have them offrace a number of games each, and examine the results. please dont direct this at me, open up the quotations and do note who started blabbing about 'facts' straight out of their ass. I also dont see the funny part about my personal experience of reaching the same ladder rank as Protoss with a 1/3 of the effort I had to put in when I was playing Terran. I could bet you money that it would take me 1/3 of the effort to reach my rank as P if i switch to T (which isnt too high to be fair). Why? Because I learned a lot of basics/mechanics while starting as Protoss that will transfer to other races. Actually I wanted to switch to T on my smurf but after watching TvTs... just doesnt seem to appealing
I'd take that bet and be a little bit richer in no time.
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On December 16 2011 02:51 ToInfinity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/2131_Empire.Beastyqtworst winrate vs Terran, winrates vs the ''easy'' races much higher
easy to play does not mean strong
a race can be easy to play but still be weak
and i have no idea why people saying shit like pros are unbiased, tons of progamers have biased views (or say biased things even if they don't mean it). you rarely see a progamer say their own race is op (with exception to certain players like MKP).
a player can also be weak vs a certain race regardless of the current balance simply because of how his mind works & how he plays. the current tvz trend might be heavily in favor of terran, but there will still be certain terran progamers with weak tvz statistics. it's foolish to base things around what a couple of progamers have said.
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EPT
