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On December 16 2011 01:30 WesleyLok wrote:
I switched from terran, because it's just way too hard. The amount of micro and effort you have to put into playing terran is just ridiculous compared to playing a race like protoss and zerg.
Terran has to stutter step, harass constantly and in big engagements, its really difficult to control it properly due to all the splitting and multiple abilities you have to use.
For example, when I played terran vs zerg I would have to stim, emp infesters and split up my marines, while seiging up tanks all at once. Lets say I emp properly, but while hitting tab to try to switch to marine/mauraders to stim, I accidentally hit stim while on the tank abilities and e while on marine abilities ( I have to tab 4 times since medivacs, tanks and ghosts all have abilities). A tiny mistake like that will instantly end the game for me while the zerg just a-move through my army with banelings/lings.
Against protoss, its much the same except I must properly emp the templar and also constantly stutterstep backwards.
or you could be not not retarded and use one control group for infantry hit E (since its default for emp) hit tab for T. and hit your other hot key for tanks.
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Terrans have to play TvT.
I've always said that this is the great balancing point of the terran race. They themselves have the gayest matchup of all.
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On December 16 2011 02:21 dreamsmasher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 01:30 WesleyLok wrote:
I switched from terran, because it's just way too hard. The amount of micro and effort you have to put into playing terran is just ridiculous compared to playing a race like protoss and zerg.
Terran has to stutter step, harass constantly and in big engagements, its really difficult to control it properly due to all the splitting and multiple abilities you have to use.
For example, when I played terran vs zerg I would have to stim, emp infesters and split up my marines, while seiging up tanks all at once. Lets say I emp properly, but while hitting tab to try to switch to marine/mauraders to stim, I accidentally hit stim while on the tank abilities and e while on marine abilities ( I have to tab 4 times since medivacs, tanks and ghosts all have abilities). A tiny mistake like that will instantly end the game for me while the zerg just a-move through my army with banelings/lings.
Against protoss, its much the same except I must properly emp the templar and also constantly stutterstep backwards. or you could be not not retarded and use one control group for infantry hit E (since its default for emp) hit tab for T. and hit your other hot key for tanks.
Lol? you realize it is a lot more than that? What players are you playing? I would love to get free wins and rofl stomp them.
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Every TvZ (diamond) is a free win for me.if early pushes fail you just expand because zerg buddies are so passive nowadays.
if he has better economy you just drop simoultaniously the hell out of him and kill a lot of drones and youre very quick in the game again because he wont be able to stop all at once. i think just that marinedrops in small numbers are pretty cost efficient.
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On December 14 2011 22:46 Cattivik wrote:
Gonna mention a few points nontheless:
-Terran macro isn't easy, especially concerning early stage buildorders where you have to manage add-ons efficiently, the order in which you build,tech and swap determines the builds effectiveness.
-The backbone units (not the ones designed for harassing) have the inability to retreat without taking significant damage from p and z units, who are faster or have the ability to keep you in place´, terran doesn't have any way of snaring enemy units, contrary to z (infestors, surrounds) and p (forcefields).
This makes for a very unforgiving army management.
-Especially for zerg it's forgiving to float minerals thanks to the larva mechanic, terrans have to keep the machinery well oiled or they will be behind in army at some point, protoss can make up for that by chronoboosting production facilities.
-Terran macro is a bit forgiving because of the burst income mules can achieve. Not easier or harder, just a bit more forgiving.
-True, but terran mineral dumps are both the most cost effective units in the game to balance that.
-Terran don't need to root, all their units are ranged. Infestor or FF root kind in a terran army would be incredible imbalanced due to tanks and marine balls.
-Zerg floating minerals is forgiving IF you can inject every 30 seconds. So you have to keep the machinery well oiled anyway. Terran have to check buildings every 30 secs, and zerg have to do the same (even zooming out of the battle for 2 secs)
It is true there are less terrans on the ladder, but with few exceptions, most of them in my league (plat) are just 2 rax or 2 port banshee cheesers who leave when you scout them or counter, so they just got there repeating an abusing strat in lower leagues.
Other terrans I meet they have good macro, harass and production in the long term, which know how to position tanks, sutter step marines and build ghost to counter late BL/infestor/ultra. These are the good ones.
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On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below.
We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game.
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On December 16 2011 02:22 shammythefox wrote:
Terrans have to play TvT.
I've always said that this is the great balancing point of the terran race. They themselves have the gayest matchup of all.
why. its the best mirror matchup since its the only one that can be consistently protracted into a long game, meaning there are very few volatile elements that lead to a 'unexpected' loss due to coinflip micro mistakes etc.. which are more common in pvp and zvz.
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On December 16 2011 02:18 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:16 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Take your balance whining and absurd (aka. made up on the spot) "facts" to the blizzard forums that kind of stuff isn't wanted on TL. You are seriously, stupid. Look at Dragon, DDE, etc. They all race switched and are doing amazing. LOL gtfo. OK? Terran players dong well with other races instantly means Terran is UP and the hardest to play, makes perfect sense, thanks for enlightening me. Also I would watch it on the personal insults, people have been banned for a lot less on TL.
Professional Terran players switching races on a whim and doing considerably better than they were with the race they have poured countless hours of practice and devotion into... that might say something. Also UP and hardest to play are different and can be exclusive. No one is saying that Terran is UP, just that in order to stay even with an opponent, you have to work harder.
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On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below.
He was "below" before switching  ...
Idk people were mentioning dragon dde and whoever else.
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On December 16 2011 02:22 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:21 dreamsmasher wrote:On December 16 2011 01:30 WesleyLok wrote:
I switched from terran, because it's just way too hard. The amount of micro and effort you have to put into playing terran is just ridiculous compared to playing a race like protoss and zerg.
Terran has to stutter step, harass constantly and in big engagements, its really difficult to control it properly due to all the splitting and multiple abilities you have to use.
For example, when I played terran vs zerg I would have to stim, emp infesters and split up my marines, while seiging up tanks all at once. Lets say I emp properly, but while hitting tab to try to switch to marine/mauraders to stim, I accidentally hit stim while on the tank abilities and e while on marine abilities ( I have to tab 4 times since medivacs, tanks and ghosts all have abilities). A tiny mistake like that will instantly end the game for me while the zerg just a-move through my army with banelings/lings.
Against protoss, its much the same except I must properly emp the templar and also constantly stutterstep backwards. or you could be not not retarded and use one control group for infantry hit E (since its default for emp) hit tab for T. and hit your other hot key for tanks. Lol? you realize it is a lot more than that? What players are you playing? I would love to get free wins and rofl stomp them.
its pretty common to use two separate hotkeys for tanks and infantry. you can manually box marines to split and you can handle drops with a 3rd hotkey. drops aren't actually that hard to do even when fighting since most of the time you just shift queue the drop double tap to drop hit T and shift queue up workers/buidlings.
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On December 16 2011 02:23 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below. We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game.
Yep, sadly blizzard is balancing due to all leagues. The most recent buff to toss was not only because of high level play, but because Koreans do not play toss in Korea so they thought it was clearly underpowered, because a country who loves playing terran since bw was not playing toss.
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On December 16 2011 02:23 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below. We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game.
IMO, Blizzard needs to institute tiered balancing. I fully understand the need to balance around the absolute best players in the world. But, that only accounts for probably <1% of SC2's userbase. Blizzard would do well not to alienate the other 99%.
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On December 16 2011 02:25 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:23 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below. We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game. Yep, sadly blizzard is balancing due to all leagues. The most recent buff to toss was not only because of high level play, but because Koreans do not play toss in Korea so they thought it was clearly underpowered, because a country who loves playing terran since bw was not playing toss.
Awesome insights, lol. More tearz pleasy, so yummy, so salty. Mmmmmhhhh
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On December 16 2011 02:27 YipMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:25 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:23 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below. We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game. Yep, sadly blizzard is balancing due to all leagues. The most recent buff to toss was not only because of high level play, but because Koreans do not play toss in Korea so they thought it was clearly underpowered, because a country who loves playing terran since bw was not playing toss. Awesome insights, lol. More tearz pleasy, so yummy, so salty. Mmmmmhhhh
Hey I am happy cuz im winning every single game off racing as toss. LOL gtfo
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On December 15 2011 23:08 petro1987 wrote:
I've seen many people come in this thread thinking this is a balance whine thread. Please, read this: THIS IS NOT A BALANCE WHINE THREAD. We don't want buffs or nerfs. We want Blizzard to correct some bad design decisions that made the game the way it is now. Simply put: Terran is more mechanical demanding, which really hurt low level players (gold to masters, event grandmasters at some regions).
Some P and Z players come here to deny that Terran is more mechanical demanding and come up with some really wierd reasonsing for the fact that Terran is less played in ladder. Some arguments that have been put:
- Terran is boring;
- Terran is so OP that terran players feel ashamed and switch races;
- Terran players are actually all bad and have been all-ining all the time to win, so with the recent nerfs they can't win anymore and they switch;
Seriously, is this the best reasoning you guys could come up with? I'm actually hoping most of you are just trolling.
The real reason why most terran players are switching: Terran is more mechanical demaning. Most players at gold-masters are casual players that can't afford to play 3+ hours everyday. With their actual raw mechanical skill, playing P or Z is more rewarding. So they switch. Is it that hard to understand?
Just answering the counter argument (why don't they just play until they get really good to the point where Terran really shines?) that has been made countless times: Because they can't afford (or don't want to) to play that much. This is very simple actually.
Also, add to this whole situation the hate you get for playing Terran in this community. It's disheartining. I think the trend will continue though. In season 5, we'll probably see the number of Ts drop even more. I expect something like 20% in Diamond or maybe less. I hope P and Z like to mirror and play each other.
On the bright side, I think Blizzard is trying to address this in HotS making mech actually viable in TvP. I hope this works.
Good post. It's only going to get worse as people "discover" more of Zerg and Protoss, too.
The last two-three seasons we've seen a ridiculous amount of innovative play -- Protoss started using Warp Prisms and Immortals much more effectively. Zerg has started doing ridiculous tier 1 timing attacks since infestors got nerfed. Just a lot of roaches and a lot of lings to crush down opponents with macro.
Terran, outside of the recent late-game ghost/nuke play that we see at the GSL-level, hasn't changed all that much. It also takes a hell of a lot of micro to pull that off. All the races have learnt to deal with the typical Terran timings and pressure builds -- 2 rax, 1-1-1, that they are a lot less effective now.
I don't see Terran innovating themselves out of the current meta-game.
EDIT: It's why we haven't seen Jinro for awhile, or any big "macro Terran" -- all the pro Koreans need impeccable micro to babysit Terran units. Unless you're a bot (or Korean) that can micro marines against banelings and do drops everywhere at the same time, it's a tough match against someone with your equivalent mechanics playing the other races.
The exception is probably Thorzain -- who is heavy mech and heavy macro and still does pretty well. It's why TvT is his best matchup, and TvZ is his worst. But haven't seen him win any recent tournaments, either, like Jinro.
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A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play.
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On December 16 2011 02:28 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:27 YipMan wrote:On December 16 2011 02:25 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:23 aderum wrote:On December 16 2011 02:21 LRObot wrote:On December 16 2011 02:16 LuckyMacro wrote:On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/951_ByunJust saying dude. Not that I necessarily agree with X race being easier than race Y... You're misinformed. This thread isn't about the ability of Korean code s players, but everyone else below. We have been begging blizzard to balance the game around the pro-players since the release, why would we want it different now? balancing for gold players will break the game. Yep, sadly blizzard is balancing due to all leagues. The most recent buff to toss was not only because of high level play, but because Koreans do not play toss in Korea so they thought it was clearly underpowered, because a country who loves playing terran since bw was not playing toss. Awesome insights, lol. More tearz pleasy, so yummy, so salty. Mmmmmhhhh Hey I am happy cuz im winning every single game off racing as toss. LOL gtfo
As you would believe that shit, pity you long time!
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On December 16 2011 02:20 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:09 xUnSeEnx wrote:On December 16 2011 02:07 gosuMalicE wrote:
Terran is in no way, shape or form harder to play then Protoss or Zerg, and the fact that every other post in this thread is a baddie who clams otherwise is quite hilarious.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. I am sorry I cannot contain the laughter and irony of this protoss posting on here. EDIT: My bad for the double post I just thought this statement was beyond hilarious and supremely mis-informed. Please explain to me how terran are switching to toss and receiving a vastly higher win rate/ etc. and toss main race and cannot win anything comparably when they race switch? Show me a toss player who off raced terran and does not lose. Wow your arguments are so sad. Minigun plays zerg on just about as high lvl as his protoss. The reason PRO terran can offrace and still do fine is because they are PROS, and vastly better and everybody else even in GM on everything. God, its pathetic to see Terran whining when their race have been dominating for a good 1,5 years. You can complain about balance, if you bring up good points, but simply stating "LOLOLOL Terran is SO much harder to play" is stupid. This is just what zerg did when they were slumping as worst. Its a stupid argument, each race requires a lot from the player.
funny you should mention Minigun, because I clearly remember when he thought that T was OMG SO EZ AND OP and decided to stream as he laddered his smurf T account.
for the first 50-ish or so games he and his chat were OLOLOLOLOL T SO EZ T+1A TO MASTERS LOOLLO (np GM back then)
then Minigun started hitting up players whose macro was as good as his own and i gotta tell you, seeing 150 supply worth of MM being stimmed and 1a'd into banelings is not a pretty sight.
I dont think he offraces as Terran anymore
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On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play.
THANK YOU! This was the only point I wanted to make practically out of all my nonsense rambling. Seriously, Terran has to change their style of play and get better each patch while alot of other races stay the same and are never punished, really at all in a patch. I think blizzard just needs to do an overall make-over patch and buff things and nerf some things for each race and then go with it.
EDIT: And btw hopefully everyone who was saying ptoss and zerg take as much skill as terran can now get off TL. Thank you.
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France12873 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
A lot of terrans are quitting because other 2 races are easier to play and require less practise which means less microing, less macroing, less multitasking = less stress, its same on lower leagues or on pro level.
So many pro players switched already to protoss or zerg and I know 2 more terrans from EU that will switch soon (if they didnt switch already), I checked Rainbow stream 2-3 days ago and he's protoss as well now lol, ForGG ladders half of his games as zerg so he might switch as well.
Problem for us terrans isnt that our race is too hard to play and we want it easier, we want other races to be harder to play.
I hope that you won't switch  even if it's tempting T;T.
But this, the most annoying thing is that the other races seem easier to play which is very frustrating and highly problematic for those who make a living of it
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EPT
